Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 AM - VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? ()
2. 04:25 AM - Trim relays foe china hat (wgill10@comcast.net)
3. 05:49 AM - Electrical Design Confusion (Greg Vouga)
4. 06:09 AM - Re: Electrical Design Confusion (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:12 AM - Re: Trim relays foe china hat (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:22 AM - Re: AC 43.13 voltage drop.... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:53 AM - Re: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? (Scott Derrick)
8. 08:16 AM - Re: Trim relays foe china hat (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
9. 09:20 AM - Re: Trim relays for china hat (wgill10@comcast.net)
10. 09:29 AM - Re: Electrical Design Confusion (Greg Vouga)
11. 10:42 AM - EL light strip dimming (Bill and Marsha)
12. 05:21 PM - Re: Electrical Design Confusion (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:28 PM - Re: Avionics Mounting (D Fritz)
14. 09:06 PM - aux music input quiet on flightcom 403mc (bryanflood)
15. 10:01 PM - Re: aux music input quiet on flightcom 403mc (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? |
4/5/2007
Scott wrote: "Vision is going through extreme changes since bought by JPI,
tech
support is nil, I've been waiting for a new Vision VM1000C since last
august and have given up waiting."
How sad -- from the very best down to the pits.
OC -- The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand
knowledge.
Time: 08:25:42 AM PST US
From: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS?
Hi,
I have Vision Microsystems capacitance fuel probes installed in my
Velocity. I would like to use them with Dynon's EMS which requires a
0-5 volt output from the fuel probes. I don't know if the Vision probes
output frequency, capacitance or voltage. Dynon didn't seem to know
either.
Vision is going through extreme changes since bought by JPI, tech
support is nil, I've been waiting for a new Vision VM1000C since last
august and have given up waiting.
Any help in using these VMS fuel probes with the Dynon unit would be
greatly appreciated. The probes worked fine for 450 hours with a VM1000
unit,
I have heard that Princeton Electronics made capacitance fuel probe
converters but teh only number I have for them( 616-281-5193) is
disconnected.
thanks,
Scott
Message 2
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| Subject: | Trim relays foe china hat |
I'm using a "china hat" on the stick grip for pitch & roll trim. Does this require
two DPDT relays? Suggestions/drawings for this installation appreciated appreciated...thanks.
Bill
<html><body>
<DIV>I'm using a "china hat" on the stick grip for pitch & roll trim. Does
this require two DPDT relays? Suggestions/drawings for this installation
appreciated appreciated...thanks.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill</DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
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| Subject: | Electrical Design Confusion |
All,
I'm having some heartburn trying to figure out the best electrical system to
use. I am planning on the following type of system:
- All electric IFR setup ( Dual GRT, Garmin radio/GPS stack, Autopilot, AOA)
- Superior XP-360 w 1 lightspeed electronic ignition and 1 slick mag
- Thinking about the SD-8 alternator
- Single battery
I was looking at the Z-13/20 diagram and planning to substiture the 20A
alternator for the SD-8. Will this work? I also looked at the Z-13/8, but
it seems that it is missing some of the benefits and simplicity of the LR-3
controllers.
Any help on this would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Greg
_________________________________________________________________
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http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Design Confusion |
At 05:47 AM 4/5/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>All,
>
>I'm having some heartburn trying to figure out the best electrical system
>to use. I am planning on the following type of system:
>
>- All electric IFR setup ( Dual GRT, Garmin radio/GPS stack, Autopilot, AOA)
>- Superior XP-360 w 1 lightspeed electronic ignition and 1 slick mag
>- Thinking about the SD-8 alternator
>- Single battery
>
>I was looking at the Z-13/20 diagram and planning to substiture the 20A
>alternator for the SD-8. Will this work? I also looked at the Z-13/8,
>but it seems that it is missing some of the benefits and simplicity of the
>LR-3 controllers.
>
>Any help on this would be appreciated.
The vast majority of OBAM aircraft flying would be
just fine using Z-11 taking advantage of the reliability
of modern alternators and RG batteries combined with
the e-bus alternate feed philosophy. IF you don't plan
to have a vacuum system, then plugging the open hole
on the back of the engine with an SD-8 is a good thing to
do and you step up to Z-13/8.
In Z-13/20, the aux alternator IS an SD-20 . . . but
what makes you think you'll NEED this kind of auxiliary
energy? Also, be aware that the depiction of any particular
brand of main alternator and its associated controller
is NOT carved in stone. The Z-figures are to illustrate
architectures and should not be interpreted to recommend
specific hardware, breaker-fuse sizes, wire sizes or what
gizmo runs from which bus. These are things you need to
decide based on the specifics of your hardware selections
and operating philosophy.
From what you've described I'm betting that Z-13/8
is going to meet all your needs with a minimum of weight
and cost.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Trim relays foe china hat |
At 11:24 AM 4/5/2007 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm using a "china hat" on the stick grip for pitch & roll trim. Does this
>require two DPDT relays? Suggestions/drawings for this installation
>appreciated appreciated...thanks.
>
>Bill
No, SPDT relays are fine. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Trim/trim2.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: AC 43.13 voltage drop.... |
At 08:31 PM 4/4/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Just looking at the following (and being somewhat electron
>challenged)....
>
>Para 11-66
>
>b. Voltage Drop in Wires. The voltage
>drop in the main power wires from the generation
>source or the battery to the bus should not
>exceed 2 percent of the regulated voltage when
>the generator is carrying rated current or the
>battery is being discharged at the 5-minute
>rate. The tabulation shown in table 11-6 defines
>the maximum acceptable voltage drop in
>the load circuits between the bus and the utilization
>equipment ground.
>
>
>Nominal system voltage Allowable voltage Intermittent
> drop continuous operation
> operation
>14 0.5 1
>28 1 2
>__________________________________________________
>
>Since there isn't any generally published 5 minute discharge rate
>for most batteries, how would one handle this? I take this as
>representing a fully loaded system. Is this irrespective of the
>circuit protection methodology?
Most folks don't handle it. When selecting fat wires for
the airplane, most of them carry starter current which drives
the selection to 4AWG on compact systems and 2AWG when it's
more spread out . . . even 0AWG on seaplanes with 28-foot runs
from starter to battery. After these guys are laid in, we use
the same wires to connect the alternator to the battery.
Once we've accommodated the 200+ amps required by the starter,
the wire paths for 60 or so amps of current generated by the
alternator are already covered.
These paragraphs go toward large and much more complex
aircraft where power generation systems may not be
so integrated with engine cranking.
BE CAUTIOUS of AC43-13. It's got some useful information
but it's also a catalog of ideas that span a huge range
of situations . . . MANY of which are not applicable to
the OBAM aircraft.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? |
Joe,
What is the output of the VMS fuel probe? capacitance, frequency,
voltage? It does have some kind of circuitry built into the end of it.
I found an article by Jim Wier about building a capacitance fuel probe
circuit which looks very doable.
thanks for the info.
Scott
Joe Garner wrote:
>
> You can get the Princeton converter from Grand Rapids. Also I think
> Blue Mt. makes one if you want to deal with them...
>
> Several articles on the Internet for roll your own converters if you search.
>
> Im putting in a GRT EIS in place of an EPI800 which uses those same probes.
>
>
> HTH, Joe
>
>
> Scott Derrick wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have Vision Microsystems capacitance fuel probes installed in my
>> Velocity. I would like to use them with Dynon's EMS which requires a
>> 0-5 volt output from the fuel probes. I don't know if the Vision probes
>> output frequency, capacitance or voltage. Dynon didn't seem to know
>> either.
>> Vision is going through extreme changes since bought by JPI, tech
>> support is nil, I've been waiting for a new Vision VM1000C since last
>> august and have given up waiting.
>>
>> Any help in using these VMS fuel probes with the Dynon unit would be
>> greatly appreciated. The probes worked fine for 450 hours with a VM1000
>> unit,
>>
>> I have heard that Princeton Electronics made capacitance fuel probe
>> converters but teh only number I have for them( 616-281-5193) is
>> disconnected.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
-
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty
than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791. ME 8:276
Message 8
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| Subject: | Trim relays foe china hat |
You can get a good drawing off of aircraft extras website, and get the
decks there too if you want
Dan
N289DT RV10E
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
wgill10@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 7:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim relays foe china hat
I'm using a "china hat" on the stick grip for pitch & roll trim. Does
this require two DPDT relays? Suggestions/drawings for this installation
appreciated appreciated...thanks.
Bill
Message 9
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| Subject: | Trim relays for china hat |
Thank-you Dan and Bob...I understand.
Bill
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
You can get a good drawing off of aircraft extras website, and get the decks there
too if you want
Dan
N289DT RV10E
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wgill10@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 7:25 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim relays for china hat
I'm using a "china hat" on the stick grip for pitch & roll trim. Does this require
two DPDT relays? Suggestions/drawings for this installation appreciated...thanks.
Bill
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<html><body>
<DIV>Thank-you Dan and Bob...I understand.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Lloyd, Daniel
R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3059" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=767281315-05042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>You can get a good drawing off of aircraft extras website, and get
the decks there too if you want</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=767281315-05042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=767281315-05042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>N289DT RV10E</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>wgill10@comcast.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 05, 2007 7:25 AM<BR><B>To:</B> aeroelectric-list@matronics.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> AeroElectric-List: Trim relays for china hat<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm using a "china hat" on the stick grip for pitch & roll trim. Does
this require two DPDT relays? Suggestions/drawings for this installation
appreciated...thanks.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill</DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List</A>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</A>
</B></FONT></PRE><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Design Confusion |
Bob,
Thanks for the information. This is helping... However, i have a couple
more questions.
1. The LR-3 alternator controller looks like a nice option and simplifies
things (crowbar, indicator light, regulator all-in-one) for the main
alternator. Is there any reason, other than cost, not to use this?
2. For the SD-8 it would be nice to have a indicator light or gage to make
sure it's functioning properly. I could wire this into the circuit as well,
but I still need regulator and crowbar OV. So... Is there any reason not
to use the LR-3 other than cost. In Z-13/8 it simply states "voltage
Regulator." Is there a specific model that you recommend?
As you might already be able to figure out, I'm a little electron
challenged. So forgive me if any of these questions seem a somewhat basic.
I have actually read the AeroElectric Connection, but I'm still a little
confused. I'm really just looking for a safe, simple, wiring archetecture
that will fit my equipment (Avionics and engine) choices. Saving a few
pennies would be nice, but at this point i would pay a few more bucks to
make it simple. The This is really the reason that I was thinking of just
trading the SD-8 for the 20 amp alternator in Z-13/20. I don't think I need
the 20A alternator, and the SD-8 will add the safety that I am looking for
in my all electric system. Is there any reason not to do this?
Thanks in advance,
Greg
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical Design Confusion
>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:08:50 -0500
>
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 05:47 AM 4/5/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>><gmvouga@hotmail.com>
>>
>>All,
>>
>>I'm having some heartburn trying to figure out the best electrical system
>>to use. I am planning on the following type of system:
>>
>>- All electric IFR setup ( Dual GRT, Garmin radio/GPS stack, Autopilot,
>>AOA)
>>- Superior XP-360 w 1 lightspeed electronic ignition and 1 slick mag
>>- Thinking about the SD-8 alternator
>>- Single battery
>>
>>I was looking at the Z-13/20 diagram and planning to substiture the 20A
>>alternator for the SD-8. Will this work? I also looked at the Z-13/8,
>>but it seems that it is missing some of the benefits and simplicity of the
>>LR-3 controllers.
>>
>>Any help on this would be appreciated.
>
> The vast majority of OBAM aircraft flying would be
> just fine using Z-11 taking advantage of the reliability
> of modern alternators and RG batteries combined with
> the e-bus alternate feed philosophy. IF you don't plan
> to have a vacuum system, then plugging the open hole
> on the back of the engine with an SD-8 is a good thing to
> do and you step up to Z-13/8.
>
> In Z-13/20, the aux alternator IS an SD-20 . . . but
> what makes you think you'll NEED this kind of auxiliary
> energy? Also, be aware that the depiction of any particular
> brand of main alternator and its associated controller
> is NOT carved in stone. The Z-figures are to illustrate
> architectures and should not be interpreted to recommend
> specific hardware, breaker-fuse sizes, wire sizes or what
> gizmo runs from which bus. These are things you need to
> decide based on the specifics of your hardware selections
> and operating philosophy.
>
> From what you've described I'm betting that Z-13/8
> is going to meet all your needs with a minimum of weight
> and cost.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today.
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
Message 11
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| Subject: | EL light strip dimming |
What resistance and wattage pot would be needed to dim a three ft. EL
lighting strip. Bill S
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Design Confusion |
At 09:24 AM 4/5/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks for the information. This is helping... However, i have a couple
>more questions.
>
>1. The LR-3 alternator controller looks like a nice option and simplifies
>things (crowbar, indicator light, regulator all-in-one) for the main
>alternator. Is there any reason, other than cost, not to use this?
The voltage regulator for an SD-8 is unique to that product and comes
with it. You can't use an LR-3 with the SD-8.
>2. For the SD-8 it would be nice to have a indicator light or gage to
>make sure it's functioning properly. I could wire this into the circuit
>as well, but I still need regulator and crowbar OV. So... Is there any
>reason not to use the LR-3 other than cost. In Z-13/8 it simply states
>"voltage Regulator." Is there a specific model that you recommend?
The functionality indicator for ALL alternators is active
notification of low volage . . . i.e. flash a light
if the bus voltage is less than 13.0 volts. OV protection
for the SD-8 is illustrated in Z-13/8
>As you might already be able to figure out, I'm a little electron
>challenged. So forgive me if any of these questions seem a somewhat basic.
>I have actually read the AeroElectric Connection, but I'm still a little
>confused. I'm really just looking for a safe, simple, wiring archetecture
>that will fit my equipment (Avionics and engine) choices. Saving a few
>pennies would be nice, but at this point i would pay a few more bucks to
>make it simple. The This is really the reason that I was thinking of just
>trading the SD-8 for the 20 amp alternator in Z-13/20. I don't think I
>need the 20A alternator, and the SD-8 will add the safety that I am
>looking for in my all electric system. Is there any reason not to do this?
Yes. Too heavy, too expensive and overkill for what you need.
Z-13/8 as published is all you're going to ever need and
more.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics Mounting |
Sure thing, unfortunately, I can't send any pictures out. I bought the 1" square
extruded profile (don't remember the part number, but it's in the catalog).
I used one face to attach the bar to the back of the panel with countersunk
screws and "T" nuts in the bar. That left the other three sides available for
things to attach to, with one of these bars on each side of the opening for the
avionics stack, I simply put screws through the holes in the avionics trays
and threaded them into "T" nuts dropped into the slots on the bar. It worked
very well and was simple to assemble while also leaving lots of flexibility for
the future. Time will tell how well this setup stands up to vibration in flight,
but I have high hopes. The only downside to these vice the pricier commercial
option is that these take up a full inch side to side for each bar while
the other only uses about a half inch. I had the room in my Velocity panel
so it wasn't a big deal.
I hope this was clear enough, if not let me know and I'll arrange for some photos.
Dan
---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
Message 14
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| Subject: | aux music input quiet on flightcom 403mc |
I had the same problem many others did connecting a music input to my flightcom
403mc. The music was so soft at top volume I could barely hear it on the ground
and not at all in flight. Turns out in order to save $ there is apparently
no pre-amp in this intercom. So if you want to hook up an mp3 player or walkman
or whatever you need to supply your own pre-amp. I looked at all the options
and decided to try to build my own. I looked at a lot of circuits and borrowed
heavily from some like Bob N. I had problems with bobs circuit when coverting
from a stereo input to a mono output. It appears that on his amp design where
one leg of the stereo input goes to the + input on the op amp and the other
leg of the stereo input to the - input on the op amp. So when you hook it up it
seems some of the music cancels out any you get some really funky sounds. Very
cool, but no music. Maybe I did it wrong, after all Bob is the expert but it
certainly looked like bobs design on the breadboard. After lots of testing however
I made changes to any existing designs to get the volume to a reasonable
level in the headset with the volume control turned to a medium level on my
mp3 player. My set-up is simple the mp3 player headphone jack simply goes into
the aux music input jack which goes thru this little amp and then to the intercom.
Anyway, I'm not an electrical engineer (I'm mechanical) so I am really not
all that great at designing circuits, but this one works for me. I thought
I would post it in case anybody want to use it as a starting point for their own
amp.
http://www.geocities.com/bryanflood2001/AudioAmpfor403MC.bmp
Bryan
--------
Rv-9A completed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105270#105270
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/audioampfor403mc_146.bmp
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: aux music input quiet on flightcom 403mc |
At 09:05 PM 4/5/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I had the same problem many others did connecting a music input to my
>flightcom 403mc. The music was so soft at top volume I could barely hear
>it on the ground and not at all in flight. Turns out in order to save $
>there is apparently no pre-amp in this intercom. So if you want to hook up
>an mp3 player or walkman or whatever you need to supply your own pre-amp.
>I looked at all the options and decided to try to build my own. I looked
>at a lot of circuits and borrowed heavily from some like Bob N. I had
>problems with bobs circuit when coverting from a stereo input to a mono
>output. It appears that on his amp design where one leg of the stereo
>input goes to the + input on the op amp and the other leg of the stereo
>input to the - input on the op amp. So when you hook it up it seems some
>of the music cancels out any you get some really funky sounds. Very cool,
>but no music. Maybe I did it wrong, after all Bob is the expert but it
>certainly looked like bobs design on the breadboar!
Hmmmm . . . stupid mistake. I'm mystified as to how that
happened because I have two other versions of the board
that are wired correctly. I've have a version
9009-300-2A which IS wired with the correct polarity but
also adds spaces for R98 and R99 load resistors cited
in Note 8 on the drawing. I'll get these ordered tonight.
The flipped polarity for stereo-inputs blew right past
me on the earlier version.
> d. After lots of testing however I made changes to any existing designs
> to get the volume to a reasonable level in the headset with the volume
> control turned to a medium level on my mp3 player. My set-up is simple
> the mp3 player headphone jack simply goes into the aux music input jack
> which goes thru this little amp and then to the intercom. Anyway, I'm not
> an electrical engineer (I'm mechanical) so I am really not all that great
> at designing circuits, but this one works for me. I thought I would post
> it in case anybody want to use it as a starting point for their own amp.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/bryanflood2001/AudioAmpfor403MC.bmp
Can't argue with success! If folks are interested
in more detail on the LM386 audio amplifier chip
the data sheet can be downloaded from . . .
http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM386.pdf
In the mean time, if anyone is interested building
the isolation amplifier and doesn't mind doing a bit
of chop-n-tack to fix the layout error, watch for
the 9009-300-1 boards to go on sale for $10 each
when I add the newer 9009-300-2A versions at the
regular price.
Thanks for the heads-up on this Bryan.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
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