---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/08/07: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:15 AM - Re: Starter contactor location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 07:23 AM - Re: Starter contactor location (Todd Heffley) 3. 07:35 AM - Re: Starter contactor location (Todd Heffley) 4. 08:01 AM - Home grown VMS Capacitive fuel probe converter (Scott Derrick) 5. 09:08 AM - 26AH battery (Gaye and Vaughn) 6. 09:21 AM - Final schematic (Gaye and Vaughn) 7. 11:07 AM - Re: 26AH battery (Kevin Horton) 8. 11:44 AM - Re: 26AH battery (Gaye and Vaughn) 9. 12:55 PM - Re: Final schematic (B Tomm) 10. 02:26 PM - Re: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? (Greg) 11. 03:29 PM - Re: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? (Scott Derrick) 12. 04:19 PM - Re: Home grown VMS Capacitive fuel probe converter (Scott Derrick) 13. 11:02 PM - Re: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? (Greg) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starter contactor location At 12:43 AM 4/7/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >I am planning to locate my battery (RG type), battery contactor, and >voltage regulator in the left boot cowl area of the cabin in my PA-22/20. >I also have room to locate the starter contactor there as well, all within >inches of the battery and access all from a planned door on the boot cowl. >The starter contactor would be only a few inches from the firewall. > >It seems I have read where Bob says that the starter contactor should be >kept close to the starter. Is this location close enough or is it better >to move it to the engine side of the firewall (about 4 to 5 inches closer >to the starter)? The reason for suggesting that starter contactor mount on the firewall is that is serves as a an attach-point for the alternator's b-lead to tie into the system's fat-wires using local b-lead circuit protection (ANL limiter or equal). It's a logistics thing that goes toward the performance issue of getting as many fat-wires as possible out of the cockpit . . . especially the b-lead feeder. Everybody who's anybody is driving in that direction. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/Firewall_Ckt_Protection.jpg . . . here you can see a variety of circuit protection for both loads and sources that have been pulled out of the cockpit and moved to the firewall. Mounting your starter contactor on the firewall provides the fat-wire terminal for bringing the battery feeder and b-lead feeder together on the 5/16" stud . . . Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:50 AM PST US From: Todd Heffley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starter contactor location Leo, The reason for the for the "close to the starter" idea is physical cable routing. For example, an aft battery airplane would have a Battery contactor in the back, Heavy wire to the fire wall, Starter contactor, then heavy wire to the Starter. This way, the Heavy wire from the back powers various busses before it gets to the Start Contactor. You have the best of both worlds, Battery and both Contactors all together, short cable runs. Don't forget to look up Bob's Comic books on bridges from Contactor to Contactor. Much cleaner than short Lug-to-cable-to-lug. Did I miss anything? todd ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:32 AM PST US From: Todd Heffley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Starter contactor location OOPS Bob had already replied, my bad. Todd ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:12 AM PST US From: Scott Derrick Subject: AeroElectric-List: Home grown VMS Capacitive fuel probe converter It appears the VMS and EI probes output a 2Khz 5vdc frequency plus or minus some freq depending on how much the probe is submerged. These probes have 3 wires, I would assume one of the wires is the output, one is a grounded reference. Is the other wire power? I have found a single chip Freq-2-Voltage convert that only requires a couple additional resistors, caps and diode to convert 0-10Khz freq to a 0-5 volt output. http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1335&dDocName=en010486 Now if I can just find out how to hook up the probes... to get their output? Anybody know? sounds a lot cheaper than $400 for the princeton converters.. Scott -- - Truth : the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death. Richard Childers ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:03 AM PST US From: "Gaye and Vaughn" Subject: AeroElectric-List: 26AH battery I am attaching a link to a reported 15 pound 26AH battery. Vaughn Teegarden Europa XS mono, Rotax 914 http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=26 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:40 AM PST US From: "Gaye and Vaughn" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Final schematic I am attaching my final(almost) main schematic. There are lots of switches, but all up makes it run and all down kills the sparks. All subscribers feel free to critique, not criticize, due to delicate feelings of neophyte. Vaughn Teegarden Europa XS mono, Rotax 914 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:28 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 26AH battery On 8 Apr 2007, at 12:07, Gaye and Vaughn wrote: > I am attaching a link to a reported 15 pound 26AH battery. > > http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=26 It is interesting that while they claim 26 AH, the detailed specs show that the voltage drops off precipitously after 60 minutes at 15 amps. Even at 2 amps, it only lasts 10 hours. I wonder how low a current you would have to draw to get 26 AH out of it. Is this really a 26 AH battery? If the specs can be believed, it has similar energy density to the popular Odyssey PC625 battery. The PC625 weighs 13.2 lb, and can deliver 13.6a for one hour, for 1.03 AH per pound. The BAB 26-12 delivers 15a for one hour, and weighs 15 lb, for 1.0 AH per pound. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:40 AM PST US From: "Gaye and Vaughn" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 26AH battery Thank you Kevin. That was what I suspected, but did not have the intelligence to comprehend. Vaughn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Horton" Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 26AH battery > > > On 8 Apr 2007, at 12:07, Gaye and Vaughn wrote: > >> I am attaching a link to a reported 15 pound 26AH battery. >> >> http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=26 > > It is interesting that while they claim 26 AH, the detailed specs show > that the voltage drops off precipitously after 60 minutes at 15 amps. > Even at 2 amps, it only lasts 10 hours. I wonder how low a current you > would have to draw to get 26 AH out of it. Is this really a 26 AH > battery? > > If the specs can be believed, it has similar energy density to the > popular Odyssey PC625 battery. The PC625 weighs 13.2 lb, and can deliver > 13.6a for one hour, for 1.03 AH per pound. The BAB 26-12 delivers 15a > for one hour, and weighs 15 lb, for 1.0 AH per pound. > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:04 PM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Final schematic Are the flaps electric? If so, do they get there power from a fused circuit or a breaker? Likewise, shouldn't the prop controller come from a switched breaker circuit to aid in "resetting" it, and also positively overriding it's operation? What type of electric prop is it? Bevan RV7A finishing kit _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gaye and Vaughn Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Final schematic I am attaching my final(almost) main schematic. There are lots of switches, but all up makes it run and all down kills the sparks. All subscribers feel free to critique, not criticize, due to delicate feelings of neophyte. Vaughn Teegarden Europa XS mono, Rotax 914 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:22 PM PST US From: "Greg" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? Scott I'm just finishing the PCB layout using Jim Wier's design. At this stage I'm going to use a panel meter for the fuel gauge. Later I might make another processor board for corrections since its not a linear output. It will probably handle different fuels etc. Greg RV8 > > Joe, > > What is the output of the VMS fuel probe? capacitance, frequency, voltage? > It does have some kind of circuitry built into the end of it. > I found an article by Jim Wier about building a capacitance fuel probe > circuit which looks very doable. > > thanks for the info. > Scott > > > Joe Garner wrote: >> >> >> You can get the Princeton converter from Grand Rapids. Also I think >> Blue Mt. makes one if you want to deal with them... >> >> Several articles on the Internet for roll your own converters if you >> search. >> >> Im putting in a GRT EIS in place of an EPI800 which uses those same >> probes. >> >> >> >> HTH, Joe >> >> >> Scott Derrick wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have Vision Microsystems capacitance fuel probes installed in my >>> Velocity. I would like to use them with Dynon's EMS which requires a >>> 0-5 volt output from the fuel probes. I don't know if the Vision probes >>> output frequency, capacitance or voltage. Dynon didn't seem to know >>> either. >>> Vision is going through extreme changes since bought by JPI, tech >>> support is nil, I've been waiting for a new Vision VM1000C since last >>> august and have given up waiting. >>> >>> Any help in using these VMS fuel probes with the Dynon unit would be >>> greatly appreciated. The probes worked fine for 450 hours with a VM1000 >>> unit, >>> >>> I have heard that Princeton Electronics made capacitance fuel probe >>> converters but teh only number I have for them( 616-281-5193) is >>> disconnected. >>> >>> thanks, >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > > - > I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much > liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. > > Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791. ME 8:276 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:08 PM PST US From: Scott Derrick Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? Greg, Are you using EI or VMS probes or building your own? Scott Greg wrote: > > Scott I'm just finishing the PCB layout using Jim Wier's design. At > this stage I'm going to use a panel meter for the fuel gauge. Later I > might make another processor board for corrections since its not a > linear output. It will probably handle different fuels etc. > > Greg > RV8 > >> >> Joe, >> >> What is the output of the VMS fuel probe? capacitance, frequency, >> voltage? It does have some kind of circuitry built into the end of it. >> I found an article by Jim Wier about building a capacitance fuel >> probe circuit which looks very doable. >> >> thanks for the info. >> Scott >> >> >> Joe Garner wrote: >>> >>> >>> You can get the Princeton converter from Grand Rapids. Also I think >>> Blue Mt. makes one if you want to deal with them... >>> >>> Several articles on the Internet for roll your own converters if you >>> search. >>> >>> Im putting in a GRT EIS in place of an EPI800 which uses those same >>> probes. >>> >>> >>> >>> HTH, Joe >>> >>> >>> Scott Derrick wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I have Vision Microsystems capacitance fuel probes installed in my >>>> Velocity. I would like to use them with Dynon's EMS which requires a >>>> 0-5 volt output from the fuel probes. I don't know if the Vision >>>> probes >>>> output frequency, capacitance or voltage. Dynon didn't seem to know >>>> either. >>>> Vision is going through extreme changes since bought by JPI, tech >>>> support is nil, I've been waiting for a new Vision VM1000C since last >>>> august and have given up waiting. >>>> >>>> Any help in using these VMS fuel probes with the Dynon unit would be >>>> greatly appreciated. The probes worked fine for 450 hours with a >>>> VM1000 >>>> unit, >>>> >>>> I have heard that Princeton Electronics made capacitance fuel probe >>>> converters but teh only number I have for them( 616-281-5193) is >>>> disconnected. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> - >> I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much >> liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. >> >> Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791. ME 8:276 >> >> >> >> >> > > -- - The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure. Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:44 PM PST US From: Scott Derrick Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Home grown VMS Capacitive fuel probe converter I just found out from the BMA forum archives: "QUOTE" Indeed, the Probes are a resistance/capacitance circuit that yields a frequency that varies with the fuel changing the capacitance. When the probe is hooked to the computer the red is +5v, the black is ground and the white is the square wave frequency output back to the computer. When you calibrate your tanks, you will supply frequencies to VM and they will program the ROM that converts frequencies to gallons. "UNQUOTE" So a 5 volt supply is needed to provide voltage to the probes on the red wire and the 5vdc square wave freq is produced on the white wire... Freq apx 4Khz empty and 2Khz full. I'll need to drag my scope down to the hanger to verify this. I wonder if a current limiter is built into the probe? Scott Scott Derrick wrote: > > > It appears the VMS and EI probes output a 2Khz 5vdc frequency plus or > minus some freq depending on how much the probe is submerged. These > probes have 3 wires, I would assume one of the wires is the output, > one is a grounded reference. Is the other wire power? > I have found a single chip Freq-2-Voltage convert that only requires a > couple additional resistors, caps and diode to convert 0-10Khz freq to > a 0-5 volt output. > http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1335&dDocName=en010486 > > > Now if I can just find out how to hook up the probes... to get their > output? Anybody know? > > sounds a lot cheaper than $400 for the princeton converters.. > > Scott > -- - The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure. Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:03 PM PST US From: "Greg" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VMS capacitance fuel probes used with Dynon EMS? Neither, Vans sells a kit that fits into their fuel tanks. If I new they were this much trouble before hand I would have gone the old fashion route. Greg > > > Greg, > > Are you using EI or VMS probes or building your own? > > Scott > > Greg wrote: >> >> Scott I'm just finishing the PCB layout using Jim Wier's design. At this >> stage I'm going to use a panel meter for the fuel gauge. Later I might >> make another processor board for corrections since its not a linear >> output. It will probably handle different fuels etc. >> >> Greg >> RV8 >> >>> >>> Joe, >>> >>> What is the output of the VMS fuel probe? capacitance, frequency, >>> voltage? It does have some kind of circuitry built into the end of it. >>> I found an article by Jim Wier about building a capacitance fuel probe >>> circuit which looks very doable. >>> >>> thanks for the info. >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> Joe Garner wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> You can get the Princeton converter from Grand Rapids. Also I think >>>> Blue Mt. makes one if you want to deal with them... >>>> >>>> Several articles on the Internet for roll your own converters if you >>>> search. >>>> >>>> Im putting in a GRT EIS in place of an EPI800 which uses those same >>>> probes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> HTH, Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott Derrick wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I have Vision Microsystems capacitance fuel probes installed in my >>>>> Velocity. I would like to use them with Dynon's EMS which requires a >>>>> 0-5 volt output from the fuel probes. I don't know if the Vision >>>>> probes >>>>> output frequency, capacitance or voltage. Dynon didn't seem to know >>>>> either. >>>>> Vision is going through extreme changes since bought by JPI, tech >>>>> support is nil, I've been waiting for a new Vision VM1000C since last >>>>> august and have given up waiting. >>>>> >>>>> Any help in using these VMS fuel probes with the Dynon unit would be >>>>> greatly appreciated. The probes worked fine for 450 hours with a >>>>> VM1000 >>>>> unit, >>>>> >>>>> I have heard that Princeton Electronics made capacitance fuel probe >>>>> converters but teh only number I have for them( 616-281-5193) is >>>>> disconnected. >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Scott >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> - >>> I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much >>> liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791. ME 8:276 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > > - > The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public > opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The > agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the > waters pure. > > Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:491 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.