AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 04/22/07


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:45 AM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Gilles Thesee)
     2. 05:05 AM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Ken)
     3. 05:52 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Peter Harris)
     4. 05:52 PM - voltage regulator (Gerald Jantzi)
     5. 05:56 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR SPIKE PROTECTION (Peter Harris)
     6. 09:52 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Peter Harris)
     7. 11:19 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Peter Harris)
     8. 11:39 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR- REGULATOR CHOICE (Peter Harris)
     9. 11:45 PM - Re: voltage regulator (Gilles Thesee)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:45:41 AM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
    Peter Harris a crit : > > Hi Ken, > Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle > , then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a > loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am > still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in > flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your > comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC > leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ? > Peter, You'll find the Z16 figure in Bob's Appendix Z most useful for your application. It applies to PM alternator engines such as the Rotax 91X but should work just fine with a Jabiru. Re the alternator CB you are referring to, this is a CURRENT related device, and it won't react to an over VOLTAGE event. A CB or fuse is intended to protect the wires from overheating. Regards, Gilles Thesee http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:05:05 AM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
    Peter If your meter has shorted diodes or is not switched to AC you can get very inconsistant readings much like you saw although it sounds like your problemt was just a loose connection. Yes Gilles pointed you in the right direction for the capacitor. I think Bob recommends at least 1,000 mfd per amp of alternator capacity so typically 20,000 mfd. That seems to work fine with the B&C and the rotax regulators I think but I don't know about others. I immediately destroyed a John Deere regulator which was connected to a completely dead battery (my mistake) but no capacitor. I only had about an amp of other loads connected at startup as the battery was not taking any current (which happens for awhile with a completly dead AGM battery). So I conclude that with my particular setup, I'd want a capacitor and also some way of keeping a reasonable load connected at all times to help keep the voltage reasonable. It seems that my regulator can not handle starting up with no load connected which might be the case if you were expecting the alternator to close a battery contactor to connect it to the load. Or maybe I would have been fine with a capacitor. In most cases I do think these units would continue to run just fine if the battery disconnected in flight. Ken Peter Harris wrote: > >Hi Ken, >Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle >, then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a >loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am >still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in >flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your >comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC >leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ? >Thanks, >Peter > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken >Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:17 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT > > >Hi Peter > >I get over a 100 vac from mine like that depending on engine speed. It >isn't going to charge at all unless you have something like almost 20vac >going into the regulator rectifier. Are you sure you aren't measuring >with a DC meter? > >Yes some of those units will operate with just a large capacitor and no >battery but I would hesitate to try that without a load connected unless >you know your combination of parts will do that. > >Ken >Peter H wrote: > > > >> >> ><peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > > >>Hi,, >>I have only 0.2V AC output from the stator of my single phase PM alternator >> >> >when the battery is disconnected. Is this correct? > > >>Is there any way to get full regulated DC output from a PM alternator if >> >> >the battery is isolated from it? > > >>Thanks, >>Peter H >> >> >>


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:52:00 PM PST US
    From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
    Subject: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
    Thanks Gilles and Ken. I am still a bit puzzled that I saw 16V before the alternator went off line, the CB did not pop and all I have done is recheck the CB connections and the master switch all of which seemed OK, but now B+ to the alternator is OK and it is working again. I understand your comment about the CB Gilles but have no explanation why the alternator went off line. The 16V must suggest a regulator fault which has now disappeared. ! I can only try another flight. Thanks for the insight. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 10:00 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT Peter If your meter has shorted diodes or is not switched to AC you can get very inconsistant readings much like you saw although it sounds like your problemt was just a loose connection. Yes Gilles pointed you in the right direction for the capacitor. I think Bob recommends at least 1,000 mfd per amp of alternator capacity so typically 20,000 mfd. That seems to work fine with the B&C and the rotax regulators I think but I don't know about others. I immediately destroyed a John Deere regulator which was connected to a completely dead battery (my mistake) but no capacitor. I only had about an amp of other loads connected at startup as the battery was not taking any current (which happens for awhile with a completly dead AGM battery). So I conclude that with my particular setup, I'd want a capacitor and also some way of keeping a reasonable load connected at all times to help keep the voltage reasonable. It seems that my regulator can not handle starting up with no load connected which might be the case if you were expecting the alternator to close a battery contactor to connect it to the load. Or maybe I would have been fine with a capacitor. In most cases I do think these units would continue to run just fine if the battery disconnected in flight. Ken Peter Harris wrote: <peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > >Hi Ken, >Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle >, then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a >loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am >still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in >flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your >comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC >leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ? >Thanks, >Peter > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken >Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:17 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT > > >Hi Peter > >I get over a 100 vac from mine like that depending on engine speed. It >isn't going to charge at all unless you have something like almost 20vac >going into the regulator rectifier. Are you sure you aren't measuring >with a DC meter? > >Yes some of those units will operate with just a large capacitor and no >battery but I would hesitate to try that without a load connected unless >you know your combination of parts will do that. > >Ken >Peter H wrote: > > > >> >> ><peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > > >>Hi,, >>I have only 0.2V AC output from the stator of my single phase PM alternator >> >> >when the battery is disconnected. Is this correct? > > >>Is there any way to get full regulated DC output from a PM alternator if >> >> >the battery is isolated from it? > > >>Thanks, >>Peter H >> >> >>


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:52:33 PM PST US
    From: Gerald Jantzi <gvjantzi@yahoo.com>
    Subject: voltage regulator
    I have noted this question has been asked before but here we go again. I am looking for A voltage regulator for 912ul . it should be a series regulator. can someone give me info on make and where I can get one? thanks Gerry --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:56:16 PM PST US
    From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
    Subject: PM ALTERNATOR SPIKE PROTECTION
    Ken thanks for the lead to Bob's advice on spike protection. Re your comments about the use of a capacitor is this connected across the two AC output leads from the stator? I have been told to just fit a diode from the regulator output to B+ for spike protection but this would not enable isolation of battery from regulator? Thanks Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 10:00 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT Peter If your meter has shorted diodes or is not switched to AC you can get very inconsistant readings much like you saw although it sounds like your problemt was just a loose connection. Yes Gilles pointed you in the right direction for the capacitor. I think Bob recommends at least 1,000 mfd per amp of alternator capacity so typically 20,000 mfd. That seems to work fine with the B&C and the rotax regulators I think but I don't know about others. I immediately destroyed a John Deere regulator which was connected to a completely dead battery (my mistake) but no capacitor. I only had about an amp of other loads connected at startup as the battery was not taking any current (which happens for awhile with a completly dead AGM battery). So I conclude that with my particular setup, I'd want a capacitor and also some way of keeping a reasonable load connected at all times to help keep the voltage reasonable. It seems that my regulator can not handle starting up with no load connected which might be the case if you were expecting the alternator to close a battery contactor to connect it to the load. Or maybe I would have been fine with a capacitor. In most cases I do think these units would continue to run just fine if the battery disconnected in flight. Ken Peter Harris wrote: <peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > >Hi Ken, >Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle >, then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a >loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am >still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in >flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your >comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC >leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ? >Thanks, >Peter > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken >Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:17 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT > > >Hi Peter > >I get over a 100 vac from mine like that depending on engine speed. It >isn't going to charge at all unless you have something like almost 20vac >going into the regulator rectifier. Are you sure you aren't measuring >with a DC meter? > >Yes some of those units will operate with just a large capacitor and no >battery but I would hesitate to try that without a load connected unless >you know your combination of parts will do that. > >Ken >Peter H wrote: > > > >> >> ><peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > > >>Hi,, >>I have only 0.2V AC output from the stator of my single phase PM alternator >> >> >when the battery is disconnected. Is this correct? > > >>Is there any way to get full regulated DC output from a PM alternator if >> >> >the battery is isolated from it? > > >>Thanks, >>Peter H >> >> >>


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:52:02 PM PST US
    From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
    Subject: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
    Gilles, Is the OVM crowbar sold ready made or in a DIY kit? Thanks Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 7:45 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> Peter Harris a crit : <peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > > Hi Ken, > Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle > , then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a > loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am > still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in > flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your > comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC > leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ? > Peter, You'll find the Z16 figure in Bob's Appendix Z most useful for your application. It applies to PM alternator engines such as the Rotax 91X but should work just fine with a Jabiru. Re the alternator CB you are referring to, this is a CURRENT related device, and it won't react to an over VOLTAGE event. A CB or fuse is intended to protect the wires from overheating. Regards, Gilles Thesee http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:19:17 PM PST US
    From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
    Subject: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
    Gilles Apologies I have found B and C and ordered the OVM. How essential do you consider the alternator relay? And where to buy as I did not see at B&C ? Thanks for your trouble, Peter H -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 7:45 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> Peter Harris a crit : <peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > > Hi Ken, > Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle > , then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a > loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am > still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in > flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your > comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC > leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ? > Peter, You'll find the Z16 figure in Bob's Appendix Z most useful for your application. It applies to PM alternator engines such as the Rotax 91X but should work just fine with a Jabiru. Re the alternator CB you are referring to, this is a CURRENT related device, and it won't react to an over VOLTAGE event. A CB or fuse is intended to protect the wires from overheating. Regards, Gilles Thesee http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:39:42 PM PST US
    From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
    Subject: PM ALTERNATOR- REGULATOR CHOICE
    Ken apologies I should have read the Z files first. I have a condenser connected that way as in Z16. I think I need a different regulator that does not need excitation from the battery. Bob Nucholls refers to the generic Ford type regulator, do you know if this is OK for the PM alternator application? Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Harris Sent: Monday, 23 April 2007 10:50 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR SPIKE PROTECTION <peterjfharris@bigpond.com> Ken thanks for the lead to Bob's advice on spike protection. Re your comments about the use of a capacitor is this connected across the two AC output leads from the stator? I have been told to just fit a diode from the regulator output to B+ for spike protection but this would not enable isolation of battery from regulator? Thanks Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 10:00 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT Peter If your meter has shorted diodes or is not switched to AC you can get very inconsistant readings much like you saw although it sounds like your problemt was just a loose connection. Yes Gilles pointed you in the right direction for the capacitor. I think Bob recommends at least 1,000 mfd per amp of alternator capacity so typically 20,000 mfd. That seems to work fine with the B&C and the rotax regulators I think but I don't know about others. I immediately destroyed a John Deere regulator which was connected to a completely dead battery (my mistake) but no capacitor. I only had about an amp of other loads connected at startup as the battery was not taking any current (which happens for awhile with a completly dead AGM battery). So I conclude that with my particular setup, I'd want a capacitor and also some way of keeping a reasonable load connected at all times to help keep the voltage reasonable. It seems that my regulator can not handle starting up with no load connected which might be the case if you were expecting the alternator to close a battery contactor to connect it to the load. Or maybe I would have been fine with a capacitor. In most cases I do think these units would continue to run just fine if the battery disconnected in flight. Ken Peter Harris wrote: <peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > >Hi Ken, >Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle >, then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a >loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am >still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in >flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your >comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC >leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ? >Thanks, >Peter > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken >Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:17 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT > > >Hi Peter > >I get over a 100 vac from mine like that depending on engine speed. It >isn't going to charge at all unless you have something like almost 20vac >going into the regulator rectifier. Are you sure you aren't measuring >with a DC meter? > >Yes some of those units will operate with just a large capacitor and no >battery but I would hesitate to try that without a load connected unless >you know your combination of parts will do that. > >Ken >Peter H wrote: > > > >> >> ><peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > > >>Hi,, >>I have only 0.2V AC output from the stator of my single phase PM alternator >> >> >when the battery is disconnected. Is this correct? > > >>Is there any way to get full regulated DC output from a PM alternator if >> >> >the battery is isolated from it? > > >>Thanks, >>Peter H >> >> >>


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:45:00 PM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: voltage regulator
    Gerald Jantzi a crit : > I am looking for A voltage regulator for 912ul . it should be a series > regulator. can someone give me info on make and where I can get one? Gerry, I'm using a Schicke GR4 regulator on a Rotax 914 installation. Nevertheless, it is not a series regulator. The Rotax/Ducati original regulator is not either. Some info at http://contrails.free.fr/elec_ducati_en.php. Hope this helps, Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse AeroElectric-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --