Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:45 AM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Gilles Thesee)
2. 05:05 AM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Ken)
3. 05:52 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Peter Harris)
4. 05:52 PM - voltage regulator (Gerald Jantzi)
5. 05:56 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR SPIKE PROTECTION (Peter Harris)
6. 09:52 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Peter Harris)
7. 11:19 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT (Peter Harris)
8. 11:39 PM - Re: PM ALTERNATOR- REGULATOR CHOICE (Peter Harris)
9. 11:45 PM - Re: voltage regulator (Gilles Thesee)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT |
Peter Harris a crit :
>
> Hi Ken,
> Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle
> , then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a
> loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am
> still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in
> flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your
> comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC
> leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ?
>
Peter,
You'll find the Z16 figure in Bob's Appendix Z most useful for your
application.
It applies to PM alternator engines such as the Rotax 91X but should
work just fine with a Jabiru.
Re the alternator CB you are referring to, this is a CURRENT related
device, and it won't react to an over VOLTAGE event. A CB or fuse is
intended to protect the wires from overheating.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT |
Peter
If your meter has shorted diodes or is not switched to AC you can get
very inconsistant readings much like you saw although it sounds like
your problemt was just a loose connection.
Yes Gilles pointed you in the right direction for the capacitor. I think
Bob recommends at least 1,000 mfd per amp of alternator capacity so
typically 20,000 mfd. That seems to work fine with the B&C and the rotax
regulators I think but I don't know about others. I immediately
destroyed a John Deere regulator which was connected to a completely
dead battery (my mistake) but no capacitor. I only had about an amp of
other loads connected at startup as the battery was not taking any
current (which happens for awhile with a completly dead AGM battery). So
I conclude that with my particular setup, I'd want a capacitor and also
some way of keeping a reasonable load connected at all times to help
keep the voltage reasonable. It seems that my regulator can not handle
starting up with no load connected which might be the case if you were
expecting the alternator to close a battery contactor to connect it to
the load. Or maybe I would have been fine with a capacitor. In most
cases I do think these units would continue to run just fine if the
battery disconnected in flight.
Ken
Peter Harris wrote:
>
>Hi Ken,
>Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at idle
>, then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found a
>loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am
>still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in
>flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your
>comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC
>leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ?
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:17 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
>
>
>Hi Peter
>
>I get over a 100 vac from mine like that depending on engine speed. It
>isn't going to charge at all unless you have something like almost 20vac
>going into the regulator rectifier. Are you sure you aren't measuring
>with a DC meter?
>
>Yes some of those units will operate with just a large capacitor and no
>battery but I would hesitate to try that without a load connected unless
>you know your combination of parts will do that.
>
>Ken
>Peter H wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
><peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>
>>Hi,,
>>I have only 0.2V AC output from the stator of my single phase PM alternator
>>
>>
>when the battery is disconnected. Is this correct?
>
>
>>Is there any way to get full regulated DC output from a PM alternator if
>>
>>
>the battery is isolated from it?
>
>
>>Thanks,
>>Peter H
>>
>>
>>
Message 3
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Subject: | PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT |
Thanks Gilles and Ken.
I am still a bit puzzled that I saw 16V before the alternator went off line,
the CB did not pop and all I have done is recheck the CB connections and the
master switch all of which seemed OK, but now B+ to the alternator is OK and
it is working again.
I understand your comment about the CB Gilles but have no explanation why
the alternator went off line.
The 16V must suggest a regulator fault which has now disappeared. ! I can
only try another flight.
Thanks for the insight.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
Peter
If your meter has shorted diodes or is not switched to AC you can get
very inconsistant readings much like you saw although it sounds like
your problemt was just a loose connection.
Yes Gilles pointed you in the right direction for the capacitor. I think
Bob recommends at least 1,000 mfd per amp of alternator capacity so
typically 20,000 mfd. That seems to work fine with the B&C and the rotax
regulators I think but I don't know about others. I immediately
destroyed a John Deere regulator which was connected to a completely
dead battery (my mistake) but no capacitor. I only had about an amp of
other loads connected at startup as the battery was not taking any
current (which happens for awhile with a completly dead AGM battery). So
I conclude that with my particular setup, I'd want a capacitor and also
some way of keeping a reasonable load connected at all times to help
keep the voltage reasonable. It seems that my regulator can not handle
starting up with no load connected which might be the case if you were
expecting the alternator to close a battery contactor to connect it to
the load. Or maybe I would have been fine with a capacitor. In most
cases I do think these units would continue to run just fine if the
battery disconnected in flight.
Ken
Peter Harris wrote:
<peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>Hi Ken,
>Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at
idle
>, then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found
a
>loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am
>still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in
>flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your
>comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC
>leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ?
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:17 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
>
>
>Hi Peter
>
>I get over a 100 vac from mine like that depending on engine speed. It
>isn't going to charge at all unless you have something like almost 20vac
>going into the regulator rectifier. Are you sure you aren't measuring
>with a DC meter?
>
>Yes some of those units will operate with just a large capacitor and no
>battery but I would hesitate to try that without a load connected unless
>you know your combination of parts will do that.
>
>Ken
>Peter H wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
><peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>
>>Hi,,
>>I have only 0.2V AC output from the stator of my single phase PM
alternator
>>
>>
>when the battery is disconnected. Is this correct?
>
>
>>Is there any way to get full regulated DC output from a PM alternator if
>>
>>
>the battery is isolated from it?
>
>
>>Thanks,
>>Peter H
>>
>>
>>
Message 4
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Subject: | voltage regulator |
I have noted this question has been asked before but here we go again. I am looking
for A voltage regulator for 912ul . it should be a series regulator. can
someone give me info on make and where I can get one? thanks Gerry
---------------------------------
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Message 5
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Subject: | PM ALTERNATOR SPIKE PROTECTION |
Ken thanks for the lead to Bob's advice on spike protection. Re your
comments about the use of a capacitor is this connected across the two AC
output leads from the stator?
I have been told to just fit a diode from the regulator output to B+ for
spike protection but this would not enable isolation of battery from
regulator?
Thanks
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
Peter
If your meter has shorted diodes or is not switched to AC you can get
very inconsistant readings much like you saw although it sounds like
your problemt was just a loose connection.
Yes Gilles pointed you in the right direction for the capacitor. I think
Bob recommends at least 1,000 mfd per amp of alternator capacity so
typically 20,000 mfd. That seems to work fine with the B&C and the rotax
regulators I think but I don't know about others. I immediately
destroyed a John Deere regulator which was connected to a completely
dead battery (my mistake) but no capacitor. I only had about an amp of
other loads connected at startup as the battery was not taking any
current (which happens for awhile with a completly dead AGM battery). So
I conclude that with my particular setup, I'd want a capacitor and also
some way of keeping a reasonable load connected at all times to help
keep the voltage reasonable. It seems that my regulator can not handle
starting up with no load connected which might be the case if you were
expecting the alternator to close a battery contactor to connect it to
the load. Or maybe I would have been fine with a capacitor. In most
cases I do think these units would continue to run just fine if the
battery disconnected in flight.
Ken
Peter Harris wrote:
<peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>Hi Ken,
>Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at
idle
>, then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found
a
>loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am
>still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in
>flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your
>comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC
>leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ?
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:17 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
>
>
>Hi Peter
>
>I get over a 100 vac from mine like that depending on engine speed. It
>isn't going to charge at all unless you have something like almost 20vac
>going into the regulator rectifier. Are you sure you aren't measuring
>with a DC meter?
>
>Yes some of those units will operate with just a large capacitor and no
>battery but I would hesitate to try that without a load connected unless
>you know your combination of parts will do that.
>
>Ken
>Peter H wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
><peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>
>>Hi,,
>>I have only 0.2V AC output from the stator of my single phase PM
alternator
>>
>>
>when the battery is disconnected. Is this correct?
>
>
>>Is there any way to get full regulated DC output from a PM alternator if
>>
>>
>the battery is isolated from it?
>
>
>>Thanks,
>>Peter H
>>
>>
>>
Message 6
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Subject: | PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT |
Gilles,
Is the OVM crowbar sold ready made or in a DIY kit?
Thanks
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles
Thesee
Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Peter Harris a crit :
<peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
> Hi Ken,
> Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at
idle
> , then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found
a
> loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am
> still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in
> flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your
> comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC
> leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ?
>
Peter,
You'll find the Z16 figure in Bob's Appendix Z most useful for your
application.
It applies to PM alternator engines such as the Rotax 91X but should
work just fine with a Jabiru.
Re the alternator CB you are referring to, this is a CURRENT related
device, and it won't react to an over VOLTAGE event. A CB or fuse is
intended to protect the wires from overheating.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 7
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Subject: | PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT |
Gilles
Apologies I have found B and C and ordered the OVM. How essential do you
consider the alternator relay? And where to buy as I did not see at B&C ?
Thanks for your trouble,
Peter H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles
Thesee
Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Peter Harris a crit :
<peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
> Hi Ken,
> Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at
idle
> , then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found
a
> loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am
> still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in
> flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your
> comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC
> leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ?
>
Peter,
You'll find the Z16 figure in Bob's Appendix Z most useful for your
application.
It applies to PM alternator engines such as the Rotax 91X but should
work just fine with a Jabiru.
Re the alternator CB you are referring to, this is a CURRENT related
device, and it won't react to an over VOLTAGE event. A CB or fuse is
intended to protect the wires from overheating.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 8
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Subject: | PM ALTERNATOR- REGULATOR CHOICE |
Ken apologies I should have read the Z files first. I have a condenser
connected that way as in Z16. I think I need a different regulator that does
not need excitation from the battery. Bob Nucholls refers to the generic
Ford type regulator, do you know if this is OK for the PM alternator
application?
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Monday, 23 April 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR SPIKE PROTECTION
<peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
Ken thanks for the lead to Bob's advice on spike protection. Re your
comments about the use of a capacitor is this connected across the two AC
output leads from the stator?
I have been told to just fit a diode from the regulator output to B+ for
spike protection but this would not enable isolation of battery from
regulator?
Thanks
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, 22 April 2007 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
Peter
If your meter has shorted diodes or is not switched to AC you can get
very inconsistant readings much like you saw although it sounds like
your problemt was just a loose connection.
Yes Gilles pointed you in the right direction for the capacitor. I think
Bob recommends at least 1,000 mfd per amp of alternator capacity so
typically 20,000 mfd. That seems to work fine with the B&C and the rotax
regulators I think but I don't know about others. I immediately
destroyed a John Deere regulator which was connected to a completely
dead battery (my mistake) but no capacitor. I only had about an amp of
other loads connected at startup as the battery was not taking any
current (which happens for awhile with a completly dead AGM battery). So
I conclude that with my particular setup, I'd want a capacitor and also
some way of keeping a reasonable load connected at all times to help
keep the voltage reasonable. It seems that my regulator can not handle
starting up with no load connected which might be the case if you were
expecting the alternator to close a battery contactor to connect it to
the load. Or maybe I would have been fine with a capacitor. In most
cases I do think these units would continue to run just fine if the
battery disconnected in flight.
Ken
Peter Harris wrote:
<peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>Hi Ken,
>Thanks for that. Today I checked it again and got a reading of 46VAC at
idle
>, then zero, then 0.2VAC and I think my multimeter is faulty. Then I found
a
>loose connection B+ to the regulator, fixed and it all works fine. I am
>still puzzled because I saw 16V charge just before the system stopped in
>flight and the alternator CB did not open. Ken I am interested in your
>comment about the use of a capacitor. Is it connected across the two AC
>leads? And what value? Have you got a reference I could follow up ?
>Thanks,
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
>Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 10:17 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: PM ALTERNATOR AC OUTPUT
>
>
>Hi Peter
>
>I get over a 100 vac from mine like that depending on engine speed. It
>isn't going to charge at all unless you have something like almost 20vac
>going into the regulator rectifier. Are you sure you aren't measuring
>with a DC meter?
>
>Yes some of those units will operate with just a large capacitor and no
>battery but I would hesitate to try that without a load connected unless
>you know your combination of parts will do that.
>
>Ken
>Peter H wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
><peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>
>>Hi,,
>>I have only 0.2V AC output from the stator of my single phase PM
alternator
>>
>>
>when the battery is disconnected. Is this correct?
>
>
>>Is there any way to get full regulated DC output from a PM alternator if
>>
>>
>the battery is isolated from it?
>
>
>>Thanks,
>>Peter H
>>
>>
>>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: voltage regulator |
Gerald Jantzi a crit :
> I am looking for A voltage regulator for 912ul . it should be a series
> regulator. can someone give me info on make and where I can get one?
Gerry,
I'm using a Schicke GR4 regulator on a Rotax 914 installation.
Nevertheless, it is not a series regulator. The Rotax/Ducati original
regulator is not either.
Some info at http://contrails.free.fr/elec_ducati_en.php.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
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