---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/27/07: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:31 AM - Re: radar altimeter (RV_10) 2. 05:01 AM - Lamar SuperSwitch (hplevyak) 3. 06:28 AM - Re: Ray Allen Servo w/ 4 Conductor Shielded Cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:34 AM - Re: REGULATOR CHOICE FOR SELF EXCITATION (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:17 AM - Cigarette Lighter Alternatives -> EmPower ARINC 628, PowerLet BMW (Greg Campbell) 6. 08:41 AM - Re: Cigarette Lighter Alternatives -> EmPower ARINC 628, PowerLet BMW (Ron Quillin) 7. 09:35 AM - Re: Cigarette Lighter Alternatives -> EmPower ARINC 628, PowerLet BMW (B Tomm) 8. 11:51 AM - Garmin GPS antenna (Larry James) 9. 01:08 PM - Re: Garmin GPS antenna (Alan Adamson) 10. 02:10 PM - 12v supply to stabilize avionics (bob mackey) 11. 02:24 PM - Re: REGULATOR CHOICE FOR SELF EXCITATION (Peter Harris) 12. 03:01 PM - Re: 12v supply to stabilize avionics (Ron Quillin) 13. 04:43 PM - Re: 12v supply to stabilize avionics (Matt Prather) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:41 AM PST US From: "RV_10" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: radar altimeter Ferg, What a great idea. I'd be interested to see more detail on that. The reason for the Rad Alt is because we live in an area that is on a thin strip of land between the mountains and the sea. Cloud often sits on the mountain and we have a hilly approach to the field from both ends. We have available an NDB approach which often doesn't penetrate the cloud base on a wet winter's day, and the current GPS approach is only marginally better. Our daughter also lives on a high plateau some 3 hours flight time away and they are also prone to low cloud. CASA (Aussie FAA equiv) is working on a ground based system to enable low level GPS IFR approaches. They have recently given some aircraft a low level IFR approach with the appropriate GPS and a Rad Alt, hence the interest in the Rad Alt. Since posting here I have found that you can purchase a 12 to 24 volt converter and I am doing some homework on that at the moment. Thanks for your input, John -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Sent: Friday, 27 April 2007 11:33 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: radar altimeter John Why are you using a radar altimeter? Is it for landing, because I'm using a a common auto backup meter with an extra stage to give a sliding audio tone in the earphones for heights from 5 feet down to 5 inches on touchdown. [The Europa Classic needs tailwheel on ground first, account loss of rudder authority at stall] Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:04 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lamar SuperSwitch From: "hplevyak" I just saw an AD for the SuperSwitch from Lamar in Southern Aviator: http://www.southern-aviator.com/editorial/articledetail.lasso?-token.key=14206&-token.src=index&-nothing And an AD in Trade-A-Plane: http://trade-a-plane.aero/unprotected/dispads/0000774727.pdf I tried to locate more info on this at the www.lamartech.com web site, but can't seem to access their site right now. My question is has anyone looked into this product yet or obtained more info on it at Sun N Fun? I would think less weight, and no moving parts is a good thing? If the price is right, why wouldn't one use the SuperSwitch? Thanks for your inputs here. Howard -------- Howard Plevyak GlaStar builder Cincinnati, OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109492#109492 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:34 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Servo w/ 4 Conductor Shielded Cable At 11:46 PM 4/26/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >I want to add a Ray Allen servo for rudder trim. I have a spare 22AWG - 4 >conductor shielded cable that will reach the intended location. Do you >see any problem using the shield as the indicator ground from servo? Not at all. It's done all the time and that's the way I would do it. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: REGULATOR CHOICE FOR SELF EXCITATION At 10:41 AM 4/26/2007 +1000, you wrote: > > >Bob in your Z-25 were you able to self excite using the simple B&C solid >state regulator or did you use another type of regulator? If yes what is the >brand? >Thanks, >Peter Unless specified otherwise, the components suggested in the Z-figures are those normally supplied with the system. I.e. the regulator shown is that which comes with the SD-8 when you buy it. It would be nice if the regulator were modified to accommodate self-excitation, but that's a business decision someone else needs to make. In the mean time, Z-25 is a work-around. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:38 AM PST US From: "Greg Campbell" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cigarette Lighter Alternatives -> EmPower ARINC 628, PowerLet BMW *ISPSS* ==> In-Seat Power Supply System (ISPSS) - a fancy acronym for power ports in airplanes. *Cigarette Lighter sockets* in a plane or other vehicle make it easy to connect 12v Accessories, but the plugs are bulky, the connections are unreliable and easily disrupted, and sometimes even hot or dangerous! See... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_plug http://www.powerletproducts.com/documentation/glossary.html *EmPower *is the name for the in seat power system used by most airlines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmPower They have AC and DC versions, but the most common is the 15v DC version. The original "EmPower Classic" put out 15vdc. The second generation "EmPower" standardized on the *ARINC 628 "Part Two"*connector. It's supposed to power laptops up to 150 Watts according to: http://www.astronicsaes.com/products/empower.asp I searched for *ARINC 628 connectors* and found the power plugs are *rated at 8 Amps*. http://www.hypertronics.com/PDFs/ARINC 628.pdf Perhaps there are "better" connectors that are rated at 10 Amps. (EmPower says the max is 150 Watts = 15 vDC @ 10 Amps.) This is adequate for my GPS, cell phone, portable DVD player, etc.., but my Kensington "Universal 120 Watt AC/DC Power Adpater" says it takes in up to 11 Amps input when being powered from 12 to 16 vdc. My HP "Airline Charger" specifically cautions against using the higher current "charge" mode when plugged into an airliner power jack. (It has a button - in one mode it will run the laptop but not charge it, the other will charge it.) So... I can only assume that *11 Amps is more than most airline seats can (safely) put out*, and that makes sense since the ARINC 628 power conductors are only rated at 8 to 10 Amps. For higher Amp requirements - there is the elegant: *"PowerLet"*connections. http://www.powerletproducts.com/products.php?mid=1 These are compact, single handed, reliable connections that will handle higher loads. Typically they are used in Europe and are standard on BMW motorcycles. Many of the "heated clothing" things that bikers wear will plug into these gizmos. A 15 Amp connection is easily accommodated. Check for these online or at a motorcycle shop. Avoid the cheaper plastic connectors for high amp connections - as they may get warm. For special and limited purposes - there is also the *"2 wire trailer plug". * These pop up on most of the new crop of trickle chargers. The trickle charger ends in one terminal and then you plug in either a set of ring terminals, a cigarette plug, or battery clips using another terminal. These can work for reasonable currents - but it depends on the size of the wire as much as the connector. Plus - it's possible to botch the polarity and fry something. I have one of the ring terminal types hard wired into my plane so I can use the trickle charger, but otherwise I haven't used these connectors extensively. These connectors are frequently available at Radio Shack and auto part stores. The size & quality of the wire used varies widely. Anyway - I thought I'd toss this bit of research out there. I'm going to be adding a few ARINC 628 Part Two sockets to my plane - and possibly to my cars. If it avoids a single "bump induced" bout of "The DVD went off!!!" it will be well worth it. ;-) Greg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cigarette Lighter Alternatives -> EmPower ARINC 628, PowerLet BMW From: Ron Quillin At 08:17 4/27/2007, you wrote: >Anyway - I thought I'd toss this bit of research out there. I'm >going to be adding a few >ARINC 628 Part Two sockets to my plane - and possibly to my >cars. If it avoids a single >"bump induced" bout of "The DVD went off!!!" it will be well worth it. ;-) > >Greg We just installed 4 of the 628 jacks in our Bellanca. The ones in the rear seats use some of the additional small gauge contacts for audio to the entertainment inputs of the audio panel. Same thing up front, but additionally RS-232 I/O is included. Work great! Ron Q. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:21 AM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Cigarette Lighter Alternatives -> EmPower ARINC 628, PowerLet BMW So to use these "non-standard" jacks, you have to cut the end off all your DVD, Ipod etc cords and re-terminate with the appropriate connector in order to use it in the airplane (in which case you won't be able to use it elsewhere) OR do you make up short little adapter cables in which case you still have the "poor" type of connector in the circuit and worse you have MORE connections. Can someone tell me what I'm missing here? Bevan RV7A wiring -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Quillin Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:40 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cigarette Lighter Alternatives -> EmPower ARINC 628, PowerLet BMW --> At 08:17 4/27/2007, you wrote: >Anyway - I thought I'd toss this bit of research out there. I'm going >to be adding a few ARINC 628 Part Two sockets to my plane - and >possibly to my cars. If it avoids a single "bump induced" bout of "The >DVD went off!!!" it will be well worth it. ;-) > >Greg We just installed 4 of the 628 jacks in our Bellanca. The ones in the rear seats use some of the additional small gauge contacts for audio to the entertainment inputs of the audio panel. Same thing up front, but additionally RS-232 I/O is included. Work great! Ron Q. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:34 AM PST US From: "Larry James" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin GPS antenna I am putting a Garmin GPS 496 in the panel of my Super Decathlon. One of my criteria is to have no loose wires etc. in the cockpit - hence I want permanently mounted antennas (I also dislike stuff on the glareshield). I made a bracket to place the XM antenna just forward of the false spar just under the top of the windshield; that problem solved. The 496 (along with a Garmin SL40) is replacing a Bendix King KX135 GPS/COMM. I asked around to several avionics shops and Garmin asking if the external GPS antenna currently used by the KX135 will work with the Garmin. Garmin said "no" and none of the avionics shops had a definitive answer and all suggested "no". The avionics shop that did the work (certified aircraft :-() simply plugged the 496 into the existing external antenna and it worked. My question is: if it works, is that the end of the story ?? Am I setting myself up for an imminent failure because it will work for a little while until it blows itself up ?? Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket under construction ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:22 PM PST US From: "Alan Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Garmin GPS antenna Most of the portable GPS's use 2.7V to drive the amplifier in an external antenna. Most of the current batch of certified external antennas including the KLX-135 version require a min of 3.5V to drive them. So I doubt that the amplifier will work in the KX-135 antenna and hence you'll have terrible or no GPS coverage when trying to use that antenna on the 496. With that said, there are lots of mobile/perm mount antennas for the 496, you should be able to find a suitable/mountable version off of ebay. Alan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry James Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:48 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin GPS antenna I am putting a Garmin GPS 496 in the panel of my Super Decathlon. One of my criteria is to have no loose wires etc. in the cockpit - hence I want permanently mounted antennas (I also dislike stuff on the glareshield). I made a bracket to place the XM antenna just forward of the false spar just under the top of the windshield; that problem solved. The 496 (along with a Garmin SL40) is replacing a Bendix King KX135 GPS/COMM. I asked around to several avionics shops and Garmin asking if the external GPS antenna currently used by the KX135 will work with the Garmin. Garmin said "no" and none of the avionics shops had a definitive answer and all suggested "no". The avionics shop that did the work (certified aircraft :-() simply plugged the 496 into the existing external antenna and it worked. My question is: if it works, is that the end of the story ?? Am I setting myself up for an imminent failure because it will work for a little while until it blows itself up ?? Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon Rocket under construction ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:44 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: 12v supply to stabilize avionics From: "bob mackey" I am purchasing a 12V power supply that takes 6-24V input and gives 12V out at up to 14 A continuous. It's a 95% efficient switcher with a quiescent current around 10mA. We need to buy ten of them to get a better price (about $55). Why do I want one? Why might you want one? I have a 1-battery airplane and don't want to rewire the whole thing. The GPS and radios reboot if they are on when I start the engine. During cranking, the bus voltage drops to around 10 V, and the avionics brown out. I want that problem to go away, and also want to keep the radio working for a while if the alternator shuts down and the battery drains below 10V. So, the solution I am trying is a switching power supply that converts anything between 6 and 24 V in to a stabilized 12V out. with 95% efficiency, the lost power is minimal. We would like to buy 10 units for about $55 each (+ s/h). We've accounted for four units, so there will be six more available. Who wants one? -bob mackey n103md -at- yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:03 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: REGULATOR CHOICE FOR SELF EXCITATION TKS Bob, I am getting there Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, 28 April 2007 1:34 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: REGULATOR CHOICE FOR SELF EXCITATION At 10:41 AM 4/26/2007 +1000, you wrote: > > >Bob in your Z-25 were you able to self excite using the simple B&C solid >state regulator or did you use another type of regulator? If yes what is the >brand? >Thanks, >Peter Unless specified otherwise, the components suggested in the Z-figures are those normally supplied with the system. I.e. the regulator shown is that which comes with the SD-8 when you buy it. It would be nice if the regulator were modified to accommodate self-excitation, but that's a business decision someone else needs to make. In the mean time, Z-25 is a work-around. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 12v supply to stabilize avionics From: Ron Quillin At 14:09 4/27/2007, you wrote: >So, the solution I am trying is a switching power supply that >converts anything between 6 and 24 V in to a stabilized 12V out. >with 95% efficiency, the lost power is minimal. We would like to >buy 10 units for about $55 each (+ s/h). We've accounted for >four units, so there will be six more available. Who wants one? Could you forward some additional technical specs on the unit? tnx ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 12v supply to stabilize avionics From: "Matt Prather" Based on previous discussions, seems like return on investment won't be good... When battery only (dead alternator), once the battery is down to ~11v there's very little usable energy left. Adding the regulated supply wouldn't likely added but possibly a moment of additional system operation - the input voltage will sag very quickly. You might actually lose operating time because of the (small) inefficiency in the supply. To buffer the brownout condition, you might consider a couple of ideas.. A diode (or relay) and a "largish" cap would protect against brownouts of relatively short duration (while the starter is cranking). You might also look at your wiring and take a few measurements of system voltages (at the battery, and at the buss) while cranking (scope plots would be ideal). Depending on how your buss gets power, and your ground routing, you might not be getting the highest possible voltage to the radios while cranking. A little rewiring might take care of most of the problem.. Let me know if you are interested in how to wire up a diode/relay and cap to reduce the impact of brownouts.. Matt- > > > I am purchasing a 12V power supply that takes > 6-24V input and gives 12V out at up to 14 A continuous. > It's a 95% efficient switcher with a quiescent current > around 10mA. We need to buy ten of them to get a > better price (about $55). > > Why do I want one? Why might you want one? > > I have a 1-battery airplane and don't want to rewire the > whole thing. The GPS and radios reboot if they are on when > I start the engine. During cranking, the bus voltage drops > to around 10 V, and the avionics brown out. I want that > problem to go away, and also want to keep the radio working > for a while if the alternator shuts down and the battery drains > below 10V. > > So, the solution I am trying is a switching power supply that > converts anything between 6 and 24 V in to a stabilized 12V out. > with 95% efficiency, the lost power is minimal. We would like to > buy 10 units for about $55 each (+ s/h). We've accounted for > four units, so there will be six more available. Who wants one? > > -bob mackey > n103md -at- yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.