Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:57 AM - Re: Two Txrs on one antenna (get simple) ()
2. 06:39 AM - Flap Seals (Fergus Kyle)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Wiring for HID lights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:29 AM - Re: Wiring for HID lights (Rob Turk)
5. 08:16 AM - Broken Battery (Charles Brame)
6. 10:00 AM - Re: Broken Battery (Carlos Trigo)
7. 12:24 PM - Re: Broken Battery (Ron Quillin)
8. 02:19 PM - Re: Broken Battery (Kevin Horton)
9. 02:31 PM - FW: BASIC DUAL INDEPENDENT POWER SUPPLY (Peter Harris)
10. 06:07 PM - Low Voltage Light Flashing (Duane Bentley)
11. 06:34 PM - Re: Low Voltage Light Flashing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 07:29 PM - Re: Broken Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:32 PM - Re: Fuselink for battery master/ alt field (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 07:35 PM - Re: Crimp on terminals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 07:41 PM - Re: curious questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Two Txrs on one antenna (get simple) |
>From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>Subject: Two Txrs on one antenna
>
>I've been following the discussion regarding running two
>transceivers on one coax line......... some very enlightening
>opinions!
For gosh sakes JUST put a second antenna on like everyone
else. It will cost you a whopping 0.25 mph at 200 mph, 0.02 mph
at 200 mph. I think you can live with the drag.
Relays? Brother, just stop the madness and follow the normal
method, two antennas for two transmitters. There are transmitter
splitters and they are expensive, way more than a used bent whip
by a large factor. I recall the commercial tx splitter relay cost about
$300-$400. It makes a used bent whip on eBay for $60 sound
pretty good. You will also have better performance.
Look I fly B767 and B757's. They have an antenna for each radio.
I have flown 100's of planes in my flying career from just about
every Cessna and Piper GA plane, several bizz jets, regional and
large jet airliners. THEY ALL HAD ONE ANTENNA PER. Why
make it complicated?
The Professor, Geroge atp/cfi-ii-me, b757/76, RV-7
PS: If you want to just receive consider a small rubber ducky
in the cockpit area to reduce that whopping 1/10 mph drag.
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Message 2
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Cheers,
I believe I saw a successful gap seal project on a Europa at
S'nF several years ago - so the idea isn't new. Nevertheless, I think it
more successful on hinged surfaces such as airlerons and rudder, where
through-slot flow is not expected. Slotted flaps need slots
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Wiring for HID lights |
At 11:33 AM 5/6/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>Gang:
>
>I am planning on HID lights for my plane. The specs say that they draw
>about 10 amps for starting and then 3.5 amps while running steady
>state. Must I choose the wire size for the short duration load or can I
>size for the long duration load, or maybe split the difference? The runs
>are long, since the lights are in the tips and the ballasts are only a
>foot or so inboard. The "stock" automotive installation comes with 15 amp
>in-line fuses.
Short duration loads of 4x the "normal" value
for the circuit does not endanger wires. However,
depending on the dynamics of the HID fixture, an
"inrush" of say 1 second will nuisance trip a 5A
fuse. Given the very small weight differences,
combined with our OBAM aviation design goal:
"Tho shalt suffer no nuisance trips of any
circuit protection in thy aircraft", I think
I'd go with AWG16/10A for the wire/fuse
combination in this instance.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Wiring for HID lights |
Add to this that thiner wire may not burn up, but it may cause enough
voltage drop at inrush current that the HID fails to trigger.. Bob's AWG16
sounds good.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wiring for HID lights
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 11:33 AM 5/6/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Gang:
>>
>>I am planning on HID lights for my plane. The specs say that they draw
>>about 10 amps for starting and then 3.5 amps while running steady state.
>>Must I choose the wire size for the short duration load or can I size for
>>the long duration load, or maybe split the difference? The runs are long,
>>since the lights are in the tips and the ballasts are only a foot or so
>>inboard. The "stock" automotive installation comes with 15 amp in-line
>>fuses.
>
> Short duration loads of 4x the "normal" value
> for the circuit does not endanger wires. However,
> depending on the dynamics of the HID fixture, an
> "inrush" of say 1 second will nuisance trip a 5A
> fuse. Given the very small weight differences,
> combined with our OBAM aviation design goal:
> "Tho shalt suffer no nuisance trips of any
> circuit protection in thy aircraft", I think
> I'd go with AWG16/10A for the wire/fuse
> combination in this instance.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
> ( EVERY day . . . )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 5
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> Time: 10:09:06 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Broken Battery
>
>
> At 02:45 PM 5/6/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>> PC-680: $84.29 from Batteries 4 Everything.
>>
>> Website:
>> <https://www.batteries4everything.com/index.html>https://
>> www.batteries4everything.com/index.html
>>
>> Click on Products, Scroll down and click on: Odyssey, Hawker, Cyclon,
>> Genesis Batteries, Next page click on: Odyssey, Next page click
>> on: PC680.
>>
>> I'm sure shipping to Australia is expensive, but shouldn't be
>> outrageous.
>> Outfit is very responsive and ships quickly in the States.
>>
>> For the record, my PC-680 is approaching 5 years old, still holds
>> a 12.8
>> volt charge indefinitely, spins the engine quickly and returns to
>> a full
>> charge within moments of turning on the alternator. It sat on a
>> bench with
>> no charger for nearly a year and still had over 12 volts charge. I
>> do keep
>> a quality charger on it now for extended down times.
>>
>
> Do you depend on this battery as a backup to the
> alternator? If so, have you cap-checked it recently?
>
> Bob . . .
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Bob,
Not sure how to do a cap check, so, no, I haven't done one.
My system is your On a Budget plan (Z-13? - my 'Connection book and
schematics are at the hangar.) I do have an SD-8 backup alternator.
I haven't flown yet, but anticipate doing so in the next couple of
weeks. I will install a new battery before doing any night or IFR
work. That will be sometime after I fly off the test hours.
Thanks for the input.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
-------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Broken Battery |
>
> Do you depend on this battery as a backup to the
> alternator? If so, have you cap-checked it recently?
>
> Bob . . .
>
What is to "cap-check" a battery?
Carlos
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Broken Battery |
At 09:28 5/7/2007, you wrote:
><trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
>
>> Do you depend on this battery as a backup to the
>> alternator? If so, have you cap-checked it recently?
>> Bob . . .
>
>What is to "cap-check" a battery?
I would think that would be the capacity check. A detailed
procedure, similar to a load test, and commonly found in the ICAW
(Instructions for Continuing Air Worthiness) section of the battery
manual for certified products.
Ron Q.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Broken Battery |
On 7 May 2007, at 12:28, Carlos Trigo wrote:
> <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
>
>> Do you depend on this battery as a backup to the
>> alternator? If so, have you cap-checked it recently?
>> Bob . . .
>
> What is to "cap-check" a battery?
See Bob Nuckolls' article on one way to do a capacity check:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battest.pdf
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 9
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Subject: | BASIC DUAL INDEPENDENT POWER SUPPLY |
Bob disregard my question about the self excitation feature, now I
understand how it works. (slow to catch on due to aging brain syndrome)
Thanks for your help .
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Harris
Sent: Monday, 7 May 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: BASIC DUAL INDEPENDENT POWER SUPPLY
<peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
Bob, thanks I see now that battery capacity design and maintenance will do
the job the simplest way.
Yes I do have a Magellan 315 and it is loaded with bush air strips as well
as regular airports.
I am not sure if I understand what the self excitation feature is
contributing, do we need it here?
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, 7 May 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: BASIC DUAL INDEPENDENT POWER SUPPLY
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:13 AM 5/5/2007 +1000, you wrote:
><peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>Bob,
>The EFI including pump, ECU and injectors together with his main bus radio
>and instruments is using 4A according to advice from the guy who engineered
>this simple single body TBI system. (I don't have a figure for the separate
>ebus draw for the EFI so you would need to discount for radio and
>instruments)I could also run the electronic ignition module and ignition
>coil for additional ebus current I guessed 4A but it would probably be
less.
>I am using a Bosch HE coil.
>Alternative landing sites are up to 1hr apart. The endurance is 41/2HRS.
>Thanks
>Peter
So how much batter-only endurance are you designing for? What
plans are you making for preventative maintenance to make
sure that design goals slip for lack of due diligence in
maintenance?
Assuming you're considering a battery capacity on the order
of the popular 3 x 6 x 7 inch form-factor, a 4A load on a
new battery will give you just over two hours of operation
assuming that nothing in your system gives up above 10.5
volts. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/17AH_Capcity_vs_Load.gif
Here we see that a 17 ah battery will carry 4A for about 3 hours.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/28AH_12V_Capacity_vs_Load.gif
To go out for duration of fuel aboard, you'll need to upsize to
the 28 ah critter for an increase to something on the order of
360 minutes or 6 hours.
It's my recommendation that you consider z21 posted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z21A.pdf
Stuff needed to keep the engine running should run from
the battery bus and be switched by their own power switches
SEPARATE from DC power management for the rest of the airplane.
You don't need the diodes. A battery does not fail in a manner
that takes the rest of the system down. Tying the alternator
directly to the battery al-la Z13/8 lets you load-shed the
main bus plus contactor and run only battery bus + ebus loads.
Even the e-bus can be shed if desired.
I presume you're planning on carrying flight-bag backups
for the panel mounted hardware like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Failure_Tolerance.pdf
This architecture meets the design goals of dual supplies
for keeping the engine lit up.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Low Voltage Light Flashing |
Bob,
I need some advice. I have a B&C L-60 alternator on my RV6. I also
have the B&C LR3C-14 voltage regulator. They both have about 3 years of
flight time, 225 hrs, trouble free. On a flight tonight, the low
voltage light came on and stayed flashing. The panel gages show I've
got 12.6 volts and 0 amps - nothing charging the battery. After
shutdown, I've checked fuses, and connectors and found nothing wrong.
With the engine shut down and the Master and Alternator switches on, I
have 12 volts out at the alternator wire "B" (output), and 1.75 volts at
the field connector to the alternator.
I've pulled the alternator off, assuming I need to send it back to B&C.
Any suggestions before I do so?
Thanks
Duane Bentley
RV6
N515DB
West Chester, OH
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Low Voltage Light Flashing |
At 09:06 PM 5/7/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>
>I need some advice. I have a B&C L-60 alternator on my RV6. I also have
>the B&C LR3C-14 voltage regulator. They both have about 3 years of flight
>time, 225 hrs, trouble free. On a flight tonight, the low voltage light
>came on and stayed flashing. The panel gages show I ve got 12.6 volts and
>0 amps nothing charging the battery. After shutdown, I ve checked fuses,
>and connectors and found nothing wrong. With the engine shut down and the
>Master and Alternator switches on, I have 12 volts out at the alternator
>wire B (output), and 1.75 volts at the field connector to the alternator.
>
>
>I ve pulled the alternator off, assuming I need to send it back to
>B&C. Any suggestions before I do so?
Sure, send the regulator back. The data you've supplied suggests
that the alternator is probably okay and the regulator has failed.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Broken Battery |
>> Do you depend on this battery as a backup to the
>> alternator? If so, have you cap-checked it recently?
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---
>
>Bob,
>
>Not sure how to do a cap check, so, no, I haven't done one.
>
>My system is your On a Budget plan (Z-13? - my 'Connection book and
>schematics are at the hangar.) I do have an SD-8 backup alternator.
>
>I haven't flown yet, but anticipate doing so in the next couple of
>weeks. I will install a new battery before doing any night or IFR
>work. That will be sometime after I fly off the test hours.
>
>Thanks for the input.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
Hmmmm . . . okay. You won't need to depend on the
battery for endurance if you have an SD-8 as the
second source of engine driven power.
With two alternators, you can consider running the
ship's battery until it simply doesn't crank the engine
any more.
Cap-check is a capacity test. Something that everyone
who depends on the battery for alternator out, e-bus
support should do. The battery will get replaced before
it fails to crank the engine any more.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Fuselink for battery master/ alt field |
At 06:03 PM 5/1/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>'Lectric Listers:
>
>I had to fun of attending Bob's seminar recently in Winterville, NC. Great
>time, I learned a tremendous amount.
>
>My wiring is pretty much straight Z-11, except I am using Plane Power's
>internally regulated alternator.
>
>The diagram shows a 22AWG fuselink off the main buss lead powering the
>alternater field through the batt/alt master swith (Z-11). The alt field
>is further protected with a 5A pullable breaker between the switch and the
>alternator. The note I scribbled down is that the fuselink is there in
>addition to the CB to allow the Plane Power's crowbar protection module to
>do its job (which, as I understand it, is to cause an instant ground fault
>upon overvoltage, thereby forcing the breaker to trip). I suppose the
>fuselink also protects the wire between the main buss and the switch.
>
>I asked the guys at Plane Power's booth at SNF to explain further, but
>they felt that the fuselink was not necessary.
>
>Standing by for my lesson. Thanks,
Any time you hook a small (read easily smoked) wire to a bus (read
many hundreds of amps of potential fault current) you provide a means
by which that run of wire is protected. Since we need a 5A breaker to
support design goals for the crowbar OV protection system, then the
breaker will be remotely mounted from the fuse bus and the chunk of
wire between the bus and the breaker falls into the category cited
above. It takes a HUSKY fuse to stay close during the faulting of
a 5A breaker . . . hence the fusible link which is indeed in the
"husky" class of circuit protection like it's giant cousins, the
ANL current limiters.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Crimp on terminals |
At 08:53 AM 4/14/2007 -0700, you wrote:
><grantneilson@telus.net>
>
>Is it a good idea to "tin" wire ends with a little solder before using crimp
>on terminals for D miniature connectors, or not?
>
>Grant Neilson
>RV9A, finishing
Doesn't help a thing.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: curious questions |
At 07:33 AM 4/14/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>A friend of mine that occasionally helps me work on my RV-9 has asked me
>some questions that I can't answer satisfactorily. He is a great guy and
>has a very curious mind, he owns and works on boats, cars, etc, but
>doesn't have a history with aircraft. These are the questions in his own
>words posted below. Any help will be gratefully accepted.
>
>
>In the course of helping a friend construct an RV 9 I had the opportunity
>to examine the electrical system design. I was puzzled at the use of a
>master relay (solenoid) to switch the entire electrical system. A number
>of questions occurred to me regarding this design:<?xml:namespace prefix =
>o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>
> The questions: How much amperage draw does the solenoid consume simply
> being energized? At what voltage does the Solenoid release? And why this
> design?
<snip>
This is a topic rich in prior conversation and posted
articles. See:
http://aeroelectric.com
put "battery contactor" in the search engine box
and click on "Google Search"
You'll get 25-30 hits on this topic that I believe
will touch on all of the points/questions in your
posting.
Bob . . .
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