---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/11/07: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:15 AM - Energizing The System (SMITHBKN@aol.com) 2. 02:52 AM - Re: Energizing The System (Kevin Horton) 3. 03:49 AM - Re: SPDT momentary push-button switch (comm flip-flop) (William Gill) 4. 03:54 AM - Re: Battery Capacity Check (David Abrahamson) 5. 04:50 AM - Re: Energizing The System (Rob Turk) 6. 04:56 AM - 14awg into a 18 pin (Terry Miles) 7. 05:28 AM - connector for sl-30 () 8. 05:51 AM - Re: Re: Hitachi Alternator (Ken) 9. 05:51 AM - Re: Broken Battery (Ken) 10. 06:26 AM - Re: Energizing The System (Ernest Christley) 11. 06:36 AM - Re: Hitachi Alternator (Joe Dubner) 12. 06:55 AM - Re: Hitachi Alternator () 13. 07:20 AM - Re: Battery Capacity Check (Tinne maha) 14. 07:27 AM - Re: 14awg into a 18 pin (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Hitachi Alternator (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 08:06 AM - Re: SPDT momentary push-button switch (comm flip-flop) (Ron Quillin) 17. 08:36 AM - Re: Hitachi Alternator (Joe Dubner) 18. 09:32 AM - Re: Re: Hitachi Alternator (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 19. 03:15 PM - Narco connectors (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 20. 03:47 PM - Re: 14awg into a 18 pin (Terry Miles) 21. 05:29 PM - One to Many - Serial connections (Alan K. Adamson) 22. 05:42 PM - Re: One to Many - Serial connections (Alan Adamson) 23. 06:24 PM - Re: One to Many - Serial connections (John Coloccia) 24. 06:55 PM - Re: One to Many - Serial connections (Carl Morgan) 25. 07:27 PM - Re: One to Many - Serial connections (Alan Adamson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:04 AM PST US From: SMITHBKN@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Energizing The System Group, I'm at the point where I am going to energize my electrical system for the first time. Any advice concerning proper way to do this? Thanks, Jeff ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:25 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Energizing The System On 11 May 2007, at 05:13, SMITHBKN@aol.com wrote: > Group, > > I'm at the point where I am going to energize my electrical system > for the first time. Any advice concerning proper way to do this? > If you have not confirmed correct wiring by fully testing each circuit when you installed it, then caution is in order. I would remove all fuses and pull all CBs, except for the one for the battery contactor. Power up the system and confirm you have voltage in all the right places, and none of the wrong places. Then power it down, and install the fuse or push in the CB for one system. Fully test that system, then repeat for all additional systems. Doing it one system at a time minimizes the chance of damage if there is a major wiring foul up. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:56 AM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SPDT momentary push-button switch (comm flip-flop) Hello Bob, Thank you for the reply. I understand connecting a normally closed SPST switch to 14V, but how does opening that circuit cause a toggle when the radio is expecting a ground once the 14V is removed? Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 12:10 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SPDT momentary push-button switch (comm flip-flop) At 08:44 AM 5/10/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >At 07:50 5/10/2007, you wrote: >>I did touching the wire to ground and the frequency toggled ONCE. It was >>necessary to then touch this wire to aircraft power to get it to toggle >>a second time. >> >>Bill > >I don't have the 155 service/installation manual, but looking at the SM >for the 155A there are some internal pull-up provisions for the external >switch. >A momentary to ground should be all that is required. >By means of whatever type switch you choose to use. > >Perhaps there is some issue within your 155? Aha! good data sir. How big are the resistors and to what voltage do they pull up? The snipit from the install manual suggests that pulling to ground is the expected resting condition with the lead being pulled up to +14 to effect a "flip". If the radio has internal pull-ups, then a NORMALLY CLOSED push button would be expected to provide the necessary function but without a need for external resistor. A Grayhill 30-6 illustrated at: http://embrace.grayhill.com/embrace/IMAGES/PDF/E-17-20.pdf and available from digikey at: http://tinyurl.com/2nqymz for about $2.65 should do the job. Looks like you have a little bit of homework to do Bill but I'm 90% certain that you can make a single-throw, two-wire push button do this job. I'm going to take the sketch referenced in the earlier post down from the website. Given Ron's new information, I'm not sure we want the signal lead to "rest" in the low state. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:05 AM PST US From: David Abrahamson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Capacity Check How about the CHT going in the red? Would the alternator in its "max effort recharge event" make the engine work that much harder, or was there some sort of momentary sensor problem? Grant, did power/mixture settings, environmental conditions, flight attitude change during the recharging cycle? David ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:37 AM PST US From: "Rob Turk" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Energizing The System If you have access to a decent regulated bench power supply then you may want to hook that up instead of the battery. Those power supplies usually come with short circuit protection or even a current limit setting. That way, if something is wrong, only minimal damage will occur. Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: SMITHBKN@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 11:13 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Energizing The System Group, I'm at the point where I am going to energize my electrical system for the first time. Any advice concerning proper way to do this? Thanks, Jeff ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:13 AM PST US From: "Terry Miles" Subject: AeroElectric-List: 14awg into a 18 pin Hi Bob, Got a question. I'm wiring a GS Air Nav/Strobe system. I need to size the wire run up to 14AWG on the power and ground run for the strobe, but the pig tail wire out of the molex like plug that goes into their power/control box is just regular auto wire and 18 at best. They want it fused at 15a. Sorry I cannot say what the amp draw will be. Is it OK to run a few inches of that original wire in and out of their connector and upsize the balance of both wire runs? We are talking a few inches in a 18 foot run. I'm in a pusher. What's normally done in a case like this? Thanks Terry Miles Velocity Wiring ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:52 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: connector for sl-30 5/11/2007 Hello Ron, Again with the "Bob" -- I just don't understand why people persist in calling me Bob. Can you please explain it? I am not a Bob, have never been a Bob, and never intend to be a Bob. OC -- The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge. PS: So you really want just the 90 degree part of the connector that gets installed on the cable, not the other straight piece that is installed on the back of the installation frame. I tried to get a straight version of the cable end part of this connection and failed. Have you contacted Delta yet? Time: 10:01:10 AM PST US From: "Ron Raby" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: connector for sl-30 Bob I am trying a new nav antenna and want to build the cable on the bench. Thanks Ron Raby ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: connector for sl-30 > > 5/10/2007 > > Hello Ron, Try Delta RF. See the bottom center of this web page/ > > http://www.deltarf.com/prodspecial.html > > I believe it is part number 4205018N995 copied off the connector on my > SL-30. > > Good luck and please tell me why you want it - thanks. > > OC -- The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and > understand knowledge. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:00 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hitachi Alternator Alternator rebuilders usually only need the part number on the alternator. Many cars will have several different alternators installed even in the same model year. Of course simply replacing the brushes may be a short term repair. Ken Joe Dubner wrote: > >Thanks, Matt. Heading down to Wizard Electric in Clarkston is "plan B" >but I'm hoping someone on the list who works in the automotive >electrical business can tell me the make and model of the car my >alternator comes from. > >This points out a real problem with a homebuilt that uses automotive >parts. When it changes hands somewhere down the line, the new owner may >be in for a tough time when the starter/alternator/whatever goes out >unless it's well documented. > >Best Regards, >Joe > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:01 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Broken Battery I would be reluctant to do this test in flight manually despite its simplicity and relevance. In theory all is fine but if one drains the battery too much (probably a lot lower than 10 volts?) AGM batteries can be reluctant to absorb current when the alternator is brought on line. It will also stress test the alternator if the battery does take the charge and it charges the battery at a much higher rate than any battery manufacturer seems to recommend. The fast recharge might damage an AGM battery more than the deep discharge. And I'd be the guy that forgot and left the radios on... Admitedly my battery was stone dead when I brought the alternator on line but I did it on the ground at slow idle and it still cost me a regulator. Fortunately the OVM prevented other damage. Ken Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > >> >> The simplest way is to take the time on some long VFR >> day flight to put your system into the endurance mode >> (turn alternator off and load shed) and see how long >> it takes for your battery to get down to 10.5 volts. >> This measures the time your battery is capable of >> supporting the ship's most useful endurance systems. >> >> >> Bob, >> >> If one is going to do what you say above, I would make sure that the >> avionics switch is off and the engine is at low rpms when you turn the >> alternator back on. I forgot to turn the alternator on one time, and >> suddenly my radios went silent. I noticed that the alternator switch >> was >> off, so I turned it back on. I zapped a Garmin 430 that way. >> Fortunately, >> it was still in warranty, and they fixed it, but it surely was >> embarrassing >> as well as potentially dangerous. I hope it never happens again, but >> if it >> does, I will think twice about turning on the alternator while the >> prop is >> swinging cruise rpms and the avionics switch is turned on. >> >> Simon Ramirez, passing through Odessa, TX > > > Point well taken. If the ship's battery is poorly and/or > the alternator-regulator is prone to severe overshoot during > a turn-on event, the situation you describe is a risk. > However, it would have been really interesting to > repeat your experiment (radios off of course) and get data > on the magnitude and duration of the overshoot. Recall that > DO-160 calls for a 20V, 1-second withstand. See: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Whats_all_this_DO160_Stuff_Anyhow.pdf > > > I would be exceedingly surprised if your system pushed outside > this boundary. This suggests that while you probably DID > experience an overshoot event, it may have been the overshoot > combined with a edge of tolerance for the radio. Do you > have the manual for the 430? What does it say about DO-160 > power input qualification? > > But to be really gentle on things, the in-flight capacity > test should be terminated by first reducing the engine to flight- > idle before turning the alternator back on. If your battery just > passed the cap check, then it's also well capable of doing > it's job as the great mitigator of transient events. If the > thing died way earlier than you expected, then not only do you > want to consider a new battery at your earliest convenience, > exercising caution for bringing the system back up is certainly > warranted. Thanks for reminding me! > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) > ( what ever you do must be exercised ) > ( EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:17 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Energizing The System Kevin Horton wrote: > > > On 11 May 2007, at 05:13, SMITHBKN@aol.com wrote: > >> Group, >> >> I'm at the point where I am going to energize my electrical system >> for the first time. Any advice concerning proper way to do this? >> > > If you have not confirmed correct wiring by fully testing each circuit > when you installed it, then caution is in order. I would remove all > fuses and pull all CBs, except for the one for the battery contactor. > Power up the system and confirm you have voltage in all the right > places, and none of the wrong places. Then power it down, and install > the fuse or push in the CB for one system. Fully test that system, > then repeat for all additional systems. Doing it one system at a time > minimizes the chance of damage if there is a major wiring foul up. At first, this seems like a long and tedious process. I'm always one to just want to plug everything in and see if there are any problems first. Usually, there are and I regret my haste. What Kevin suggests is actually much faster. Once you go through the individual circuit verification process a couple of times, you fall into a pattern and the work goes much faster. When you're done you will have identified any possible gremlin, have high confidence in the individual circuits, and you will not have gone through the process of troubleshooting multi-system interactions to find which one caused the problem. That last step is real dragon that eats all of your time. The only point I'd like to clarify with what Kevin said is that once you verify a system is working properly, pull its fuse before verifying the next. I'd also use the smallest fuse that can possibly operate the circuit. You'll blow a few that way, but they're cheap. Once all the individual circuits are verified, power the fuse block, and add proper fuses one at a time to bring each system up. Then run in the house to drag the wife out and say, "Look at what I did!!" (She hates it when I do that 8*) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:13 AM PST US From: Joe Dubner Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hitachi Alternator Ken, That's the problem: there is _NO_ part number whatsoever on the alternator. Just a manufacturer (Hitachi) and a label that says it's internally regulated and made in Japan. I'm headed to the alternator shop today but I'd like to solve this for once and for all. So, again, I'm hoping someone in the business will see this and recognize what it's used in. My original message: My O235 Long-EZ has experienced some sort of charging system failure. It was intermittent at first but now it does nothing -- I flew home battery only. So I suspect it's time for brush replacement on my automotive alternator and I'd like to buy some brushes at the local auto parts store. The alternator is an internally regulated Hitachi alternator with no part number (and I didn't install it). The counter-person at the NAPA and the AutoZone stores gave me that "deer in the headlight" look when I asked for brushes for a Hitachi alternator. They only understand car make, model, and year. So can someone help me with a cross-reference? The alternator appears to be this one: http://www.marineengine.com/parts/part_details.php?pnum=SIE18-6284&returntopage240069.htm (or try this if that wraps around: http://tinyurl.com/2oaokc) Thanks, Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Dubner K7JD | 523 Cedar Avenue | http://www.mail2600.com Long-EZ 821RP | Lewiston, ID 83501 | +1 208 816-6359 -------------------------------------------------------------------- On 11-May-07 05:48 Ken wrote: > > Alternator rebuilders usually only need the part number on the > alternator. Many cars will have several different alternators installed > even in the same model year. Of course simply replacing the brushes may > be a short term repair. > Ken > > Joe Dubner wrote: > >> >>Thanks, Matt. Heading down to Wizard Electric in Clarkston is "plan B" >>but I'm hoping someone on the list who works in the automotive >>electrical business can tell me the make and model of the car my >>alternator comes from. >> >>This points out a real problem with a homebuilt that uses automotive >>parts. When it changes hands somewhere down the line, the new owner may >>be in for a tough time when the starter/alternator/whatever goes out >>unless it's well documented. >> >>Best Regards, >>Joe >> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:20 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hitachi Alternator This is the most likely one (you can get easily): Alternator - Hitachi, Mitsubishi IR/EF 35 Amp, 12 Volt, CW, 1-Groove Pulley Used On: (1980-78) Nissan 620 720 Pickup 2.0L Nissan Lift Trucks TCM Lift Trucks Replaces: Hitachi LR138-01 Mitsubishi A1T22971 Lester Nos: 14231 Key number is Lester # 14231. If the brush repair does not work. Get rid of the Hatachi; They are one of the worst brands of alternators made. Get a: Alternator - Nippondenso IR/IF Replacement 55 Amp, 12 Volt, CW, 1-Groove Pulley Used On: (1988-87) Chevrolet Sprint 1.0L (1995-86) Suzuki Samurai 1.3L (1989) Suzuki Sidekick 1.3L Replaces: Nippondenso 100211-141, 100211-155, 100211-407 Lester Nos: 14684 Smaller, lighter, more reliable. May take new brackets. If you really want to do it right. http://www.plane-power.com/ Cheers George >From: Joe Dubner >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hitachi Alternator > >My O235 Long-EZ has experienced some sort of charging >system failure. --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:42 AM PST US From: "Tinne maha" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery Capacity Check At 07:07 AM 5/10/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob et al, > >I have about 50 hours now on my Lyc O-235 powered ship with Z-11 >Architecture (were it not for your help, the airplane would not be flying!) >As my electrical needs are very light, my only alternator is a vacuum pump >pad driven 20 amp. >Recently, while on an extended day VFR trip, I did a load shed/capacity >check as suggested below. Felt good to know real condition results. >However, when I turned the alternator back on for re-charge, the CHT went >way into the red and, after about 20 minutes of charging, the 30 amp fuse >protecting the AWG 10 'B' lead blew, incapacitating the alternator. The >rest of the flight was uneventful, and, after replacing the fuse, >everything functions normally. >One source suggested I replace the 30 amp fuse with a 40 amp one & only due >capacity checks on the ground. Do you have any suggestions, comments or >recommendations? Without a doubt, recharging the battery with a cruise RPM alternator produces a max-effort recharge event . . . which shouldn't be a big deal but the practice will produce a short term (15 minutes or so) exercise of the alternator. What size alternator do you have? Recall that the b-lead fuse needs to be 20% or so LARGER than the alternator's rated output to accommodate exactly this same scenario . . . Had a Cherokee 140 nuisance trip the 60A b-lead breaker at the outset of a trip some years ago after we jump started the airplane due to master switch being left on. Obviously, the least stressful way to do it is on the ground with test equipment. But at the same time, the in-flight test is a proving ground for whether or not all the design goals have been met. You've discovered that your b-lead fuse is too small. Bob . . . The alternator is an SD-20 (i.e. 20 amp), so I guess it is a little under-rated if it blew a 30 amp fuse, eh(?)........I guess that's really a good thing though. I feel dumb asking, but when I upgrade the b-lead fuse (presumably to 40 amps) will I also need to install a larger b-lead (existing is AWG 10)? Another way of phrasing this question, would be: 'Is it inadvisable to exceed the rated current capacity of AWG 10 wire (30 amps) if that will only be for a short time (i.e. 15 minutes or so)?' Thanks again, Grant _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see troublebefore he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:06 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 14awg into a 18 pin At 07:55 AM 5/11/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi Bob, > >Got a question. I'm wiring a GS Air Nav/Strobe system. I need to size the >wire run up to 14AWG on the power and ground run for the strobe, but the pig >tail wire out of the molex like plug that goes into their power/control box >is just regular auto wire and 18 at best. They want it fused at 15a. >Sorry I cannot say what the amp draw will be. > >Is it OK to run a few inches of that original wire in and out of their >connector and upsize the balance of both wire runs? We are talking a few >inches in a 18 foot run. I'm in a pusher. What's normally done in a case >like this? A 15A branch is properly wired with 14AWG. It' perfectly within the bounds of good practice to drop to a smaller wire for a short distance to accommodate a smaller pin in a connector. It would be really useful to do a current measurement on the system once you have it installed. Most suppliers of such products do not have strong systems design and integration background . . . and classically, almost never touch airplanes from the airframe designer's perspective. I'm betting that the 'real' requirements are lower than what they recommend but installing as you've proposed with 15A/14AWG spliced into the connector's pigtail is perfectly okay thing to do. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hitachi Alternator From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" George is right, That baby Nippondenso is a wonderful little machine, I ran one for 400 hours on my old Zodiac, only reason it hiccupped was because the brushes got soaked in oil from the leaking filler cap right in front of it. half an hour hour new brushes installed and it was perfect. For the RV I went the plane power route after the Toyota camry unit I bought from Autozone confused my avionics...Nice but spendy! But it is a brand new alternator and I was in a hurry and Vans stock them and they are a 15min flight from my home base. The Plane power unit fitted perfectly, all the brackets are included. If I add up the time I spent making brackets for the Toyota Camry unit I replaced then it was a good deal...In other words it wasn't worth making my own. Cheers Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 6:54 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hitachi Alternator This is the most likely one (you can get easily): Alternator - Hitachi, Mitsubishi IR/EF 35 Amp, 12 Volt, CW, 1-Groove Pulley Used On: (1980-78) Nissan 620 720 Pickup 2.0L Nissan Lift Trucks TCM Lift Trucks Replaces: Hitachi LR138-01 Mitsubishi A1T22971 Lester Nos: 14231 Key number is Lester # 14231. If the brush repair does not work. Get rid of the Hatachi; They are one of the worst brands of alternators made. Get a: Alternator - Nippondenso IR/IF Replacement 55 Amp, 12 Volt, CW, 1-Groove Pulley Used On: (1988-87) Chevrolet Sprint 1.0L (1995-86) Suzuki Samurai 1.3L (1989) Suzuki Sidekick 1.3L Replaces: Nippondenso 100211-141, 100211-155, 100211-407 Lester Nos: 14684 Smaller, lighter, more reliable. May take new brackets. If you really want to do it right. http://www.plane-power.com/ Cheers George >From: Joe Dubner >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hitachi Alternator > >My O235 Long-EZ has experienced some sort of charging >system failure. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SPDT momentary push-button switch (comm flip-flop) From: Ron Quillin At 22:09 5/10/2007, you wrote: >Aha! good data sir. How big are the resistors and to > what voltage do they pull up? The snipit from the > install manual suggests that pulling to ground is > the expected resting condition with the lead being > pulled up to +14 to effect a "flip". I need to point out, my manual is for the 155A, not a 155 as Bill has. My post was 'in case' the "A" had been inadvertently omitted from the model. Bill also clearly states, if I read correctly, his IM details connections to both +14 and ground; presumably in addition to the input pin on the radio. I'd like to see the IM page if possible... For the 155A from the SM; External input pin through 221 ohm resistor and diode in series to the base of a PNP (with internal series base and emitter-base resistors shown). Emitter hard +5, Collector pulled to ground via 47.5k and output to guts via 4.75k. The input is protected by a 40V zener and debounce by a 330pF to ground between the resistor and diode. The 155A IM clearly shows N.O. momentary to ground to effect transfer. Base pulled low, xstr turns on and supplies +5 via 4.75 to guts. Bob, pdf to you directly to save BW. Bill, let me know if you are interested too... Ron Q. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:20 AM PST US From: Joe Dubner Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hitachi Alternator George, Thank you! That's what I was looking for (the year/make/model and the bonus of a Lester number). I don't know how you did it! Anyway, with that info I'm off to the alternator shop and/or the parts house. And if neither of those options give satisfaction, I see that Rockauto.com sells one for under $50 (plus core and shipping). I'm a happy camper! But I'm keeping my Hitachi (at least for now) in favor of the N-D you mentioned because I'd rather not do a bracket (and baffling) change, plus whatever wiring/terminal changes are needed to connect to the "S" and "L" terminals. My Hitachi is a known quantity: internally regulated and proven ability to switch off and on in flight. To misparaphrase a frequently tossed-out saying at (former) work: "Change is bad!" Thanks again, Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Dubner K7JD | 523 Cedar Avenue | http://www.mail2600.com Long-EZ 821RP | Lewiston, ID 83501 | +1 208 816-6359 -------------------------------------------------------------------- On 11-May-07 06:54 gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote: > This is the most likely one (you can get easily): > > Alternator - Hitachi, Mitsubishi IR/EF > 35 Amp, 12 Volt, CW, 1-Groove Pulley > Used On: > (1980-78) Nissan 620 > 720 Pickup 2.0L > Nissan Lift Trucks > TCM Lift Trucks > Replaces: Hitachi LR138-01 Mitsubishi A1T22971 > Lester Nos: 14231 > > Key number is Lester # 14231. > > If the brush repair does not work. > > Get rid of the Hatachi; They are one of the worst > brands of alternators made. Get a: > > Alternator - Nippondenso IR/IF Replacement > 55 Amp, 12 Volt, CW, 1-Groove Pulley > Used On: > (1988-87) Chevrolet Sprint 1.0L > (1995-86) Suzuki Samurai 1.3L > (1989) Suzuki Sidekick 1.3L > Replaces: Nippondenso 100211-141, 100211-155, > 100211-407 > Lester Nos: 14684 > > Smaller, lighter, more reliable. May take new brackets. > > If you really want to do it right. > > http://www.plane-power.com/ > > Cheers George > > > >From: Joe Dubner >>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hitachi Alternator >> >>My O235 Long-EZ has experienced some sort of charging >>system failure. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hitachi Alternator From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Just a note of caution Joe, I suspect that the Rockauto would be a rebuilt unit. There are many rebuilt alternators which are very poor quality and for $50 I would be very surprised if that was a good one. Knowing what I know now (tempered with the fact I fly in IMC so I can't afford an alt that will confuse my avionics) I would either strip and rebuild the unit you have now, therby controlling the quality, buy a new Lester unit (which I believe have a good reputation, or go for a plane power unit. Cheers Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Dubner Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:35 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hitachi Alternator George, Thank you! That's what I was looking for (the year/make/model and the bonus of a Lester number). I don't know how you did it! Anyway, with that info I'm off to the alternator shop and/or the parts house. And if neither of those options give satisfaction, I see that Rockauto.com sells one for under $50 (plus core and shipping). I'm a happy camper! But I'm keeping my Hitachi (at least for now) in favor of the N-D you mentioned because I'd rather not do a bracket (and baffling) change, plus whatever wiring/terminal changes are needed to connect to the "S" and "L" terminals. My Hitachi is a known quantity: internally regulated and proven ability to switch off and on in flight. To misparaphrase a frequently tossed-out saying at (former) work: "Change is bad!" Thanks again, Joe ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:47 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Narco connectors Anyone know the standard part number or other source for the 18-pin Molex edge connector that goes on a NARCO AT155 or AT165 transponder? It uses the standard King-type pins. Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:53 PM PST US From: "Terry Miles" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 14awg into a 18 pin Thanks for being out here for us. Warm regards, Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 11:27 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 14awg into a 18 pin At 07:55 AM 5/11/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi Bob, > >Got a question. I'm wiring a GS Air Nav/Strobe system. I need to size the >wire run up to 14AWG on the power and ground run for the strobe, but the pig >tail wire out of the molex like plug that goes into their power/control box >is just regular auto wire and 18 at best. They want it fused at 15a. >Sorry I cannot say what the amp draw will be. > >Is it OK to run a few inches of that original wire in and out of their >connector and upsize the balance of both wire runs? We are talking a few >inches in a 18 foot run. I'm in a pusher. What's normally done in a case >like this? A 15A branch is properly wired with 14AWG. It' perfectly within the bounds of good practice to drop to a smaller wire for a short distance to accommodate a smaller pin in a connector. It would be really useful to do a current measurement on the system once you have it installed. Most suppliers of such products do not have strong systems design and integration background . . . and classically, almost never touch airplanes from the airframe designer's perspective. I'm betting that the 'real' requirements are lower than what they recommend but installing as you've proposed with 15A/14AWG spliced into the connector's pigtail is perfectly okay thing to do. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:29 PM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections Someone must have come up with an elegant way to do this. I've got some serial devices that I'd like to use to feed other devices. In a couple of case, if the sending device will allow, I'd like to feed it to 3 downstream devices. These are single conductor with shield connections and I've been racking my brain on how to take one to 3 (or 4, or N) and do them the *correct* way, and via an eye pleasing way. Anyone care to share how they'd do it? Alan ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:05 PM PST US From: "Alan Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections I guess I should have said.... "Without using terminal blocks"... I'd prefer to do it just with single conductor, shielded wire... Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan K. Adamson Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections --> Someone must have come up with an elegant way to do this. I've got some serial devices that I'd like to use to feed other devices. In a couple of case, if the sending device will allow, I'd like to feed it to 3 downstream devices. These are single conductor with shield connections and I've been racking my brain on how to take one to 3 (or 4, or N) and do them the *correct* way, and via an eye pleasing way. Anyone care to share how they'd do it? Alan ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:03 PM PST US From: John Coloccia Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections You can terminate the source into a DB9. Use the one with solder cups and solder all the pins together. The mating connector then has a wire for each device you wish to hookup. If it's a foil shield, 1/2 the DB9 can be signal pins, the other 1/2 can be the shield from the source. If it's a braided shield with no wire for the shield, you'll have to maintain the shielding through the connector/backshell or something like that. Just some random thoughts. There's probably a better way to do it, -John www.ballofshame.com Alan K. Adamson wrote: > > Someone must have come up with an elegant way to do this. > > I've got some serial devices that I'd like to use to feed other devices. In > a couple of case, if the sending device will allow, I'd like to feed it to 3 > downstream devices. These are single conductor with shield connections and > I've been racking my brain on how to take one to 3 (or 4, or N) and do them > the *correct* way, and via an eye pleasing way. > > Anyone care to share how they'd do it? > > Alan > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:55 PM PST US From: "Carl Morgan" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections Hi Alan, Not sure if this is a 'correct' way, but we have taken multiple feeds and solder spliced multiple lines and then used D pins for the connection. This means easy to change / add other lines later if needed, where this gets too bulky a DB9 has been used. A second component that has worked well is we have a single DB25 (should have been DB33) location which is like a mini approach hub for data lines. All the avionics RS232 (plus a few others like PTT) lines come in and out of this single DB male/female set. This includes unused GPS output feeds etc. Any mods to what feeds what is normally just a pin change and doesn't require burying into the avionics stack harnesses. Eg. I changed the transponder FADC feed from the GNS to the GRT change rather than cutting open the main harness. Regards, Carl -- ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - tying up bundles of wires.... - New Zealand http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan K. Adamson [mailto:aadamson@highrf.com] > Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2007 12:27 p.m. > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections > > > > > Someone must have come up with an elegant way to do this. > > I've got some serial devices that I'd like to use to feed other > devices. In > a couple of case, if the sending device will allow, I'd like to > feed it to 3 > downstream devices. These are single conductor with shield > connections and > I've been racking my brain on how to take one to 3 (or 4, or N) > and do them > the *correct* way, and via an eye pleasing way. > > Anyone care to share how they'd do it? > > Alan ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:17 PM PST US From: "Alan Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections Holy smoke, you guys are brilliant... While not the perfect solutions, these are some excellent ideas. What's even more ironic is that I was going to use the DBX idea for grounds but hadn't even thought about the spoke/hub idea for serial data. Now I've got some thinking to do... I really like the "reuse or change idea" and the idea of using DB connectors.... Hmmm, now to think thru how to make a serial bus that doesn't take a bunch of space, and where a single connector could be used for multiple buss paths... Great ideas, please keep them coming.... Obviously there is a limit to this. If the RS232 chip that is/was used in the Transmitting device can't "source" enough voltage, it may not be able to drive unlimited numbers of downstream devices, but I can probably limit what needs to be done to provide for my needs. Thanks all! Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Morgan Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 9:55 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections --> Hi Alan, Not sure if this is a 'correct' way, but we have taken multiple feeds and solder spliced multiple lines and then used D pins for the connection. This means easy to change / add other lines later if needed, where this gets too bulky a DB9 has been used. A second component that has worked well is we have a single DB25 (should have been DB33) location which is like a mini approach hub for data lines. All the avionics RS232 (plus a few others like PTT) lines come in and out of this single DB male/female set. This includes unused GPS output feeds etc. Any mods to what feeds what is normally just a pin change and doesn't require burying into the avionics stack harnesses. Eg. I changed the transponder FADC feed from the GNS to the GRT change rather than cutting open the main harness. Regards, Carl -- ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - tying up bundles of wires.... - New Zealand http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan K. Adamson [mailto:aadamson@highrf.com] > Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2007 12:27 p.m. > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: One to Many - Serial connections > > > > > Someone must have come up with an elegant way to do this. > > I've got some serial devices that I'd like to use to feed other > devices. In a couple of case, if the sending device will allow, I'd > like to feed it to 3 downstream devices. These are single conductor > with shield connections and I've been racking my brain on how to take > one to 3 (or 4, or N) and do them the *correct* way, and via an eye > pleasing way. > > Anyone care to share how they'd do it? > > Alan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.