---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/15/07: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:50 AM - Re: Connetor Shells-Loctite (John Coloccia) 2. 04:48 AM - Re: Connetor Shells-Loctite (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 05:57 AM - Re: Connetor Shells-Loctite (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:07 AM - Re: Connetor Shells-Loctite (Ernest Christley) 5. 06:31 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Greg Vouga) 6. 06:49 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Reggie DeLoach) 7. 07:27 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Mike) 8. 08:00 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Matt Prather) 9. 08:12 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Ron Quillin) 10. 08:34 AM - Re: Avionics Master (john@ballofshame.com) 11. 09:24 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Reggie DeLoach) 12. 11:14 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 11:26 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 11:28 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 11:34 AM - Re: Avionics Master (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 11:37 AM - Blowing fuses (Glaeser, Dennis A) 17. 11:56 AM - Re: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) () 18. 12:17 PM - Circuit Protection upstream of crowbar module (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 12:31 PM - Re: Blowing fuses (john@ballofshame.com) 20. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) (Chuck Jensen) 21. 01:11 PM - AeroFlash Service (David & Elaine Lamphere) 22. 02:01 PM - Re: AeroFlash Service (Dale Ensing) 23. 03:25 PM - Re: Blowing fuses (glaesers) 24. 03:58 PM - GS-Air Strobe Current 6 Amps (Dennis Johnson) 25. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) (Bill Denton) 26. 05:40 PM - Re: GS-Air Strobe Current 6 Amps (Terry Miles) 27. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Blowing fuses (Ed Anderson) 28. 08:21 PM - Comm and Intercom Interconnection: Expected Results? (r falstad) 29. 09:24 PM - Re: GS-Air Strobe Current 6 Amps (Christopher Barber) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:59 AM PST US From: John Coloccia Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connetor Shells-Loctite I wouldn't loctite them. The screws they come with are quite crappy and you run the real risk of stripping the heads just trying to get them out again. The screws are light so I'd be surprised if they'd loosen on their own, even under heavy vibration. So maybe I'm missing something here but my gut would say just cinch them down and call it a day. I wonder what A&P's are trained to do? I wonder what Bob and Stein do? hmmmmmm. -John www.ballofshame.com DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: > > Question on keeping the screws and nuts from coming apart on the DB-25 and > computer style connector shells and wire clamps. I tried some blue locktite > and it seemed to work fine but I was wondering if Locktite is needed or if > just installing the screws and nuts dry (but tight) is sufficient? Seems > trivial but I don't want the hardware coming apart and falling into my lap > while I'm flying (and I don't want to have to crawl up behind the panel to > put things back together once the airplane is finished). > > Also, following Bob's tenet of not using wire smaller than AWG-22 has left > me with some large bundles coming out of the DB-25 connectors, especially on > the back of the VOR/ILS indicator and the Dynon EFIS. I couldn't use the > supplied bundle clamp/strain reliever because the bundle was too large so I > ended up using half the clamp and a tie wrap through the two screw holes for > strain relief. I wrapped some vinyl tape around the bundle at that point to > stave off chaffing the Tefzel insulation of the bundle. Seems kind of > kludgey to me though, any words of wisdom on good ways to protect the > bundles inside the connectors while providing decent strain relief? Thanks. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Installing radio harnesses > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:12 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connetor Shells-Loctite At 11:40 PM 5/14/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > >Question on keeping the screws and nuts from coming apart on the DB-25 and >computer style connector shells and wire clamps. I tried some blue locktite >and it seemed to work fine but I was wondering if Locktite is needed or if >just installing the screws and nuts dry (but tight) is sufficient? Seems >trivial but I don't want the hardware coming apart and falling into my lap >while I'm flying (and I don't want to have to crawl up behind the panel to >put things back together once the airplane is finished). We've used D-Subs on the airplanes and our targets for as long as anyone can remember and we've never "secured" the mating screws beyond snugging them up dry. The screw mass is exceedingly small and the thread pitch very flat (40 tpi) so any tendency to loosen under vibration is simply too small to overcome friction. >Also, following Bob's tenet of not using wire smaller than AWG-22 has left >me with some large bundles coming out of the DB-25 connectors, especially on >the back of the VOR/ILS indicator and the Dynon EFIS. I couldn't use the >supplied bundle clamp/strain reliever because the bundle was too large so I >ended up using half the clamp and a tie wrap through the two screw holes for >strain relief. I wrapped some vinyl tape around the bundle at that point to >stave off chaffing the Tefzel insulation of the bundle. Seems kind of >kludgey to me though, any words of wisdom on good ways to protect the >bundles inside the connectors while providing decent strain relief? Thanks. Leave the clamp hardware off. Wrap the bundle with silicone rubber tape like: http://tinyurl.com/32uywo Put enough tape around the wires that the backshell halves put a grip on the bundle when assembled to the connector. Finally, the notion of avoiding 24AWG wire is strongest for airframe systems were individual small wires are routed around the airplane for various tasks. If you're building short bundles of multiple wires for avionics, 24AWG is fine if you're comfortable with it. It's generally to flexible to allow seating a d-sub pin in the housing by pushing on the wire. You'll probably have to use the insertion tool to seat pins. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:27 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connetor Shells-Loctite > > Leave the clamp hardware off. Wrap the bundle with silicone rubber > tape like: > >http://tinyurl.com/32uywo > > Put enough tape around the wires that the backshell halves > put a grip on the bundle when assembled to the connector. See also: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/ Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:38 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connetor Shells-Loctite DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: > > Question on keeping the screws and nuts from coming apart on the DB-25 and > computer style connector shells and wire clamps. I tried some blue locktite > and it seemed to work fine but I was wondering if Locktite is needed or if > just installing the screws and nuts dry (but tight) is sufficient? Seems > trivial but I don't want the hardware coming apart and falling into my lap > while I'm flying (and I don't want to have to crawl up behind the panel to > put things back together once the airplane is finished). > > I bought clips that you screw onto the dSub connectors. Then a springs holds them together. It is like the clips that used to be on the Centronics end of your printer cable. With these, you could epoxy the screws into place. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:43 AM PST US From: "Greg Vouga" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Bob, I wanted to use the LR-3 controller and the SD-8, but I didn't find a design that incorporated both. So, my electrical system is kind of a combination of Z-12 and Z-13/8. I started with the Z-12 and then removed the circuit with the SB-1/20A alternator. Then I added the SD-8/regulator circuit from Z-13/8. You are right about the search engine. I actually hit send on my email and then instantly remembered that I should have checked the archives first. Of course, I found that this subject has been discussed several times before. My initial reasoning was to protect my "sensitive" avionics during power fluxuations during startup and shutdown. It seams that modern avionics should not have this problem according to your comments in the past. However, I am using some experimental electronics that may or may not have gone through extensive testing for power fluxuations. I agree that the manufacturers should have made their products robust enough, but did they? I'm not sure we can know for sure unless someone tests the units thoroughly either in the lab or just through normal use. Greg >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master >Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 22:56:09 -0600 > > > >At 07:28 PM 5/14/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >> >> >>All, >> >>I'm working on my panel and I'm trying to decide if I should put an >>Avionics Master switch. In my experience with rental planes this was nice >>to have since there was one switch to turn everything on or off during >>engine start or shutdown. >> >>Is there any reason not to add this feature? I'm planning an E-Bus and >>Main Bus configuration similar to the Z-13/8 design. > > Why "similar to"? What feature do you find missing > or performance goal that has gone lacking. Goto > >http://aeroelectric.com > > . . . and put 'avionics master' in the search box. > After reviewing the discussions, help us out by > citing where you perceive a return on investment for > having the feature. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) > ( give some practical results, but ) > ( that's not why we do it." ) > ( ) > ( Richard P. Feynman ) > ---------------------------------------- > > _________________________________________________________________ Catch suspicious messages before you open themwith Windows Live Hotmail. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:04 AM PST US From: Reggie DeLoach Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Why can one not just use the "off/on" switch on each device ? :} ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Vouga" Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 8:30 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master > > Bob, > > I wanted to use the LR-3 controller and the SD-8, but I didn't find a design > that incorporated both. So, my electrical system is kind of a combination > of Z-12 and Z-13/8. I started with the Z-12 and then removed the circuit > with the SB-1/20A alternator. Then I added the SD-8/regulator circuit from > Z-13/8. > > You are right about the search engine. I actually hit send on my email and > then instantly remembered that I should have checked the archives first. Of > course, I found that this subject has been discussed several times before. > > My initial reasoning was to protect my "sensitive" avionics during power > fluxuations during startup and shutdown. It seams that modern avionics > should not have this problem according to your comments in the past. > However, I am using some experimental electronics that may or may not have > gone through extensive testing for power fluxuations. I agree that the > manufacturers should have made their products robust enough, but did they? > I'm not sure we can know for sure unless someone tests the units thoroughly > either in the lab or just through normal use. > > Greg > > >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master > >Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 22:56:09 -0600 > > > > > > > >At 07:28 PM 5/14/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > > >> > >> > >>All, > >> > >>I'm working on my panel and I'm trying to decide if I should put an > >>Avionics Master switch. In my experience with rental planes this was nice > >>to have since there was one switch to turn everything on or off during > >>engine start or shutdown. > >> > >>Is there any reason not to add this feature? I'm planning an E-Bus and > >>Main Bus configuration similar to the Z-13/8 design. > > > > Why "similar to"? What feature do you find missing > > or performance goal that has gone lacking. Goto > > > >http://aeroelectric.com > > > > . . . and put 'avionics master' in the search box. > > After reviewing the discussions, help us out by > > citing where you perceive a return on investment for > > having the feature. > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) > > ( give some practical results, but ) > > ( that's not why we do it." ) > > ( ) > > ( Richard P. Feynman ) > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Catch suspicious messages before you open them-with Windows Live Hotmail. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:24 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Check the $price$ of that on/off switch in the radio and how much it cost to have it changed. Then you will know why you don't want to use them all the time. The on/off switches on the radio seems to fail more often then a standard toggle switch, especially on the Narco and king radios. Mike Larkin -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Reggie DeLoach Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:49 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Why can one not just use the "off/on" switch on each device ? :} -- 11:52 AM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master From: "Matt Prather" Do they fail from operations or age? Matt- > > Check the $price$ of that on/off switch in the radio and how much it > cost to have it changed. Then you will know why you don't want to use > them all the time. The on/off switches on the radio seems to fail more > often then a standard toggle switch, especially on the Narco and king > radios. > > Mike Larkin > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Reggie DeLoach > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:49 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master > > > > Why can one not just use the "off/on" switch on each device ? > :} > > > -- > 11:52 AM > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master From: Ron Quillin At 06:48 5/15/2007, you wrote: >Why can one not just use the "off/on" switch on each device ? >:} There some are IM's that specify the piece of equipment is not to be energized during engine start, and is to be powered from the "avionics" bus and turned on post start. Lack of a power switch is also common with remotely installed boxes, some with similar power source restrictions. One panel mounted instrument that immediately comes to mind is the JPI EDM series engine monitors. There is no "off/on" switch on this device. Ron Q. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:20 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master From: john@ballofshame.com I'm guessing they mostly fail from lack of use. I often wonder if ANY switch installed in the real world has ever made it to the rated # of cycles achieved in the manufacturer'ss accelerated life testing. -John www.ballofshame.com > > > Do they fail from operations or age? > > > Matt- > >> >> Check the $price$ of that on/off switch in the radio and how much it >> cost to have it changed. Then you will know why you don't want to use >> them all the time. The on/off switches on the radio seems to fail more >> often then a standard toggle switch, especially on the Narco and king >> radios. >> >> Mike Larkin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Reggie DeLoach >> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:49 AM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master >> >> >> >> Why can one not just use the "off/on" switch on each device ? >> :} >> >> >> -- >> 11:52 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:54 AM PST US From: Reggie DeLoach Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master Thanks to all who responded! red :} (My initials but in this case, Rookie in Early Development) ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master > > I'm guessing they mostly fail from lack of use. I often wonder if ANY > switch installed in the real world has ever made it to the rated # of > cycles achieved in the manufacturer'ss accelerated life testing. > > -John > www.ballofshame.com > > > > > > > Do they fail from operations or age? > > > > > > Matt- > > > >> > >> Check the $price$ of that on/off switch in the radio and how much it > >> cost to have it changed. Then you will know why you don't want to use > >> them all the time. The on/off switches on the radio seems to fail more > >> often then a standard toggle switch, especially on the Narco and king > >> radios. > >> > >> Mike Larkin > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > >> Reggie DeLoach > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:49 AM > >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master > >> > >> > >> > >> Why can one not just use the "off/on" switch on each device ? > >> :} > >> > >> > >> -- > >> 11:52 AM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:42 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master At 08:32 AM 5/15/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >I'm guessing they mostly fail from lack of use. I often wonder if ANY >switch installed in the real world has ever made it to the rated # of >cycles achieved in the manufacturer's accelerated life testing. Probably not. Lab tests never duplicate the combination of stresses that over time (not operating cycles) will bring the switch to it's knees. Switches regularly used are happier/healthier and longer lived than switches that sit for long periods of time unused. I've replaced more switches that succumbed to under-use than from wear-out. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master At 06:30 AM 5/15/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob, > >I wanted to use the LR-3 controller and the SD-8, but I didn't find a >design that incorporated both. So, my electrical system is kind of a >combination of Z-12 and Z-13/8. I started with the Z-12 and then removed >the circuit with the SB-1/20A alternator. Then I added the SD-8/regulator >circuit from Z-13/8. >You are right about the search engine. I actually hit send on my email >and then instantly remembered that I should have checked the archives >first. Of course, I found that this subject has been discussed several >times before. > >My initial reasoning was to protect my "sensitive" avionics during power >fluxuations during startup and shutdown. It seams that modern avionics >should not have this problem according to your comments in the past. >However, I am using some experimental electronics that may or may not have >gone through extensive testing for power fluxuations. I agree that the >manufacturers should have made their products robust enough, but did they? Call them up and ask them. The aura that surrounds the avionics master switch and the mythology that birthed the thing will never go away unless responsibly skeptic consumers drive it away. The "spikes" from starter motors don't exist. Spikes from starter contactors do exist but they eat up starter push buttons and do not propagate out onto the system. >I'm not sure we can know for sure unless someone tests the units >thoroughly either in the lab or just through normal use. The guy who designed the thing should KNOW what stresses his product will stand. Further, if there are stresses that his product will not stand, he should know how big they are and exactly where they come from. There's no excuse for levying a requirement on the installation of a product without being able to support that requirement with the "numbers" and simple ideas that support them. Call them up. Point them to articles on the website and ask them where they're wrong. If you don't get good (understandable) answers, get the folks names and phone numbers and let me call them. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:50 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master At 06:30 AM 5/15/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob, > >I wanted to use the LR-3 controller and the SD-8, but I didn't find a >design that incorporated both. So, my electrical system is kind of a >combination of Z-12 and Z-13/8. I started with the Z-12 and then removed >the circuit with the SB-1/20A alternator. Then I added the SD-8/regulator >circuit from Z-13/8. Keep in mind that the z-figures are for ARCHITECTURE and do not necessarily drive combinations of hardware. For example, A figure Z-13 could use an internally regulated main alternator, an externally regulated with any regulator. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:38 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master At 10:43 PM 5/14/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > > >This is an excerpt from the GRT install manual referring to the use of an >avionics master (at least that is what I read into it). Perhaps Bob can >clear this up as it is somewhat ambiguous. > >Power Connections >The display units each include 2 isolated power input connections. This >allows redundant power sources, such as a main and secondary bus. The >display units consume approximately 1 amp, making even a small 3 Amp-Hour >gel cell a suitable emergency source. > >The configuration of the power supplied to the display unit(s) is left to >the installer. Considerations such as the number of power buses, the desire >or not to supply one pieceof equipment with power from redundant buses >(which in theory allows the possibility of one device affecting both buses), >the configuration of the electrical system with respect to backup equipment, >and so on, may dictate the best configuration for a particular airplane. > >No provision is included within the display units for a power switch. If a >power switch is desired for the EFIS, the +12V power should be controlled >with the switch (not ground). The display units include internal >thermally-activated fuses. This protects the equipment from internal >electrical faults. Power supplied to the EFIS must pass through a fuse or 4 >circuit breaker or fuse. It should be sized to allow at least 1.5 amps per >display unit, with a maximum rating of 5 amps. > >The AHRS and display units monitor all of their power inputs, and alarms are >available to annunciate the loss of any power source that was provided and >is expected to be working according to the "General Setup" menu. >The majority of the current flow into the display unit will occur on the bus >with thehighest voltage. > >It is desirable to have the display units and AHRS off during the engine >start if all of the buses which power them are used for supplying power to >the engine starter. This maximizes the current available for the starter, >and may extend the life of the CCFL backlight in the display unit. I'm skeptical of the "extended life" claim. However, any of the z-figures offers dual feed busses. The e-bus is a dual feed bus and addresses the reliability idea that might have driven any form of "dual power input" scheme built into the equipment. If the need to have the stuff powered off during cranking is real, then one could install a normal feed switch in series with the normal feedpath isolation diode. Call them up and ask them which DO-160 power input protocols are beyond their ability to tolerate. As with other cases, if you don't get understandable answers, find out who I need to talk to and I'll go find out what's really going on. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:23 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Blowing fuses From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" Bob, et. al., I have a Z-19 architecture (modified a bit for a Subaru engine) with rear mounted Odyssey batteries. I have 2 lighter receptacles on the panel, each wired to a battery hot bus through a 10a fuse. I put a couple of lighter plugs on my Battery Tender Jr. as a convenient way to charge the batteries. I don't have my engine yet, to charge them the 'proper' way. The other night I decided to charge the batteries, because I've been playing with my radios a bit. I inserted the charger plugs one at a time to verify that the green light on the charger came on. When I removed the plugs, the fuses blew! Same thing on both of them, done one at a time. I've done this before with no problem. I double checked the wiring, and everything is connected as desired. I replaced the fuses, re-inserted the charger plugs, and let the batteries charge overnight. By morning the green light on the charger was blinking (indicating maintenance mode). I pulled the lighter plugs out, and this time one fuse blew. I replaced the fuse and plugged everything in again. The charger cord has a plug to allow use of multiple ends, so this time I disconnected the lighter plugs from the charger before removing the lighter plugs - no problem, Did that multiple times, no problems. I haven't tried pulling the energized lighter plugs out again (running low on fuses!). So, obviously, my question is: why would pulling out the energized lighter plugs cause the fuses to blow? Dennis Glaeser RV-7A Rochester Hills, MI ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:19 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) Greg if you want a avionic master switch by golly PUT ONE IN, and be proud and happy, because it will work just like you think it will and know you like. After you plow thru all the required reading and "data" which is really an elaborate opinion dressed up with a bunch of gobbly-gook, bottom line its your choice and yours alone. Bob has good points, but there not all quintessential or relevant. For examples some modern avionics, like the very popular excellent Icom A200 com radio needs to be OFF during start! So does my old Collins transponder. You can use the little volume/off switch or mode switch and turn them on and off individually, but it's a pain. Bob may call for Icom's head and berate them for their design, but he is not going to buy you a new Icom when it fries. If you insist on leaving avionics on during start it could happen. By the way the ICOM A200 is an awesome radio and a super value, recommend. One big fat beautiful avionics master switch is nice. You can of course avoid single point failure several ways. I think the e-bus will do it, or two switches in parallel, even a single throw, double pole switch would do it. Chance is the master switch will never fail, and once you throw that switch on its not going to fail, my opinion. Are you flying IFR at 18,000 ft or day/night vfr. Just use good old common sense. I sometimes disagree with Bob and this is one of them. This is one of those topics Bob has a very strong opinion on, emphasis on opinion, but don't let any one tell you what to do when it comes down to preference, which this is. All you have to know is there is NOT a good reason for leaving an avionics master switch out of your panel. If that is what you want, it's very simple, you want it, put it in. It's common and useful even today. Is opinion & preference not safety, end of story. Here is another professional opinion: http://avionicswest.com/articles.htm Scroll to the bottom, "Avionics Master Switch" article Good Luck, and don't over think it and use the KISS principle. George ATP/CFI-II-ME/MSME >From: "Greg Vouga" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master > >All, > >I'm working on my panel and I'm trying >to decide if I should put an Avionics >Master switch. In my experience with >rental planes this was nice to have >since there was one switch to turn >everything on or off during engine start >or shutdown. > >Is there any reason not to add this >feature? I'm planning an E-Bus and >Main Bus configuration similar to the Z- >13/8 design. --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:23 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Circuit Protection upstream of crowbar module >I have been comparing the opening times between ANL (Bussman) limiters and >electromagnetic CBs from Carling. Crowbar OV protection is always used downstream of a circuit breaker. A quality miniature is fine. > If they are being popped by an OV crowbar, the time delay seems to be > related to the %overcurrent. This current will depend on the > on-resistance of the SCR when triggered, as well as other resistanc in > the circuit. Can you tell me what the actual overcurrent will be? From > the delay curves for these devices it looks like 300% will give a trip > delay of less than 100 ms. The ship's battery will hold an alternator at bay for seconds . . . OV trips are generally all over in 50 mS. >Will this protect avionics, or should transorbs be used as well? Transorbs are for transient (spike) protection. These are short duration, very low energy events quite apart from an OV condition caused by a runaway alternator. When used as described in the Z-figures, crowbar ov protection will generally produce a 100+ amp opening event on a 5A breaker and get it open in 15-30 mS . . . plenty fast. Transorbs are not helpful in an OV situation. Fuses should not be used upstream of a crowbar OV system. Use a miniature thermal breaker like: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/circuitbreakers.jpg available at: http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?7X358218#CB1 and elsewhere. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one wishes to be "world class" at ) ( anything, what ever you do must be ) ( exercised EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blowing fuses From: john@ballofshame.com How do you know when the fuse is blowing? For example, if you plug both in and there's a short somewhere, one fuse may blow and the other one will look OK. The charger still sees a battery so it'll still turn green. You unplug one (the blown one) and notice the fuse is blown. You unplug the other one, jostle something that shorts out again, and it blows the 2nd fuse. I'm not suggesting this happened. I'm just curious how you determined the timing of when the fuse actually blew. Do you see any marking on the connectors or recepticle that would indicate an arc? Are you using a fast or slow fuse? Maybe there's just a small arc when you disconnect it and you have to use a slow blow fuse? That would seem strange to me. The most obvious answer would be that there's a short in one of the recepticles or the plugs. That's so simple to check that it should be the first step, I guess. Maybe I'm missing something even more obvious. -John > Bob, et. al., > > I have a Z-19 architecture (modified a bit for a Subaru engine) with > rear mounted Odyssey batteries. I have 2 lighter receptacles on the > panel, each wired to a battery hot bus through a 10a fuse. > I put a couple of lighter plugs on my Battery Tender Jr. as a convenient > way to charge the batteries. I don't have my engine yet, to charge them > the 'proper' way. > > The other night I decided to charge the batteries, because I've been > playing with my radios a bit. I inserted the charger plugs one at a > time to verify that the green light on the charger came on. When I > removed the plugs, the fuses blew! Same thing on both of them, done one > at a time. I've done this before with no problem. I double checked the > wiring, and everything is connected as desired. > I replaced the fuses, re-inserted the charger plugs, and let the > batteries charge overnight. By morning the green light on the charger > was blinking (indicating maintenance mode). I pulled the lighter plugs > out, and this time one fuse blew. I replaced the fuse and plugged > everything in again. The charger cord has a plug to allow use of > multiple ends, so this time I disconnected the lighter plugs from the > charger before removing the lighter plugs - no problem, Did that > multiple times, no problems. I haven't tried pulling the energized > lighter plugs out again (running low on fuses!). > So, obviously, my question is: why would pulling out the energized > lighter plugs cause the fuses to blow? > > Dennis Glaeser > RV-7A > Rochester Hills, MI > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:20 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) From: "Chuck Jensen" George, Very interesting take on things. Quoting from the source you quoted (Air West Avionics): "Try starting the engine with the avionics on today and there's a good chance you will damage your avionics. The damage may not show up immediately, but nevertheless, the damage has been done." Ah yes, the ole "insidious damage problem". Very convenient. You probably suffered damage, even though you can't see it and, of course, you can prove you didn't suffer damage because you can't see it. There must be a double negative or Gordian knot in there somewhere! The most valuable quote from the article comes in light of your castigating Bob for espousing "opinions", and I quote from your definitive reference: In summary, if you have modern avionics such as KX-155s, Loran, DMEs, GPS, fuel flows and sorts, then in my opinion an avionics master is a must. (emphasis and underline, mine). If I understand correctly, you are casting aspersions on Bob's opinion....with another opinion; from someone who we don't know and have no understanding of their CV, if any. Very interesting. Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 2:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) Greg if you want a avionic master switch by golly PUT ONE IN, and be proud and happy, because it will work just like you think it will and know you like. After you plow thru all the required reading and "data" which is really an elaborate opinion dressed up with a bunch of gobbly-gook, bottom line its your choice and yours alone. Bob has good points, but there not all quintessential or relevant. For examples some modern avionics, like the very popular excellent Icom A200 com radio needs to be OFF during start! So does my old Collins transponder. You can use the little volume/off switch or mode switch and turn them on and off individually, but it's a pain. Bob may call for Icom's head and berate them for their design, but he is not going to buy you a new Icom when it fries. If you insist on leaving avionics on during start it could happen. By the way the ICOM A200 is an awesome radio and a super value, recommend. One big fat beautiful avionics master switch is nice. You can of course avoid single point failure several ways. I think the e-bus will do it, or two switches in parallel, even a single throw, double pole switch would do it. Chance is the master switch will never fail, and once you throw that switch on its not going to fail, my opinion. Are you flying IFR at 18,000 ft or day/night vfr. Just use good old common sense. I sometimes disagree with Bob and this is one of them. This is one of those topics Bob has a very strong opinion on, emphasis on opinion, but don't let any one tell you what to do when it comes down to preference, which this is. All you have to know is there is NOT a good reason for leaving an avionics master switch out of your panel. If that is what you want, it's very simple, you want it, put it in. It's common and useful even today. Is opinion & preference not safety, end of story. Here is another professional opinion: http://avionicswest.com/articles.htm Scroll to the bottom, "Avionics Master Switch" article Good Luck, and don't over think it and use the KISS principle. George ATP/CFI-II-ME/MSME >From: "Greg Vouga" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master > >All, > >I'm working on my panel and I'm trying >to decide if I should put an Avionics >Master switch. In my experience with >rental planes this was nice to have >since there was one switch to turn >everything on or off during engine start >or shutdown. > >Is there any reason not to add this >feature? I'm planning an E-Bus and >Main Bus configuration similar to the Z- >13/8 design. ________________________________ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:17 PM PST US From: "David & Elaine Lamphere" Subject: AeroElectric-List: AeroFlash Service Bought a two strobe set from AeroFlash for the Wittman Tailwind I am building. I noticed that the leads were too long going to the bulbs because I had mounted the power supply units fairly close to the bulbs. Since I didn't want to have a bunch of coiled wire there, I decided to shorten them. First, I found out that the male crimp on pins were NOT Molex .06 or .09 as I thought, then wondered if the length of the wires was critical.. Sent off an email to Customer service at AeroFlash using the web-site form and asked about wire length and what the connectors were. They told me that the length was not critical, the contacts were made by Tyco and are sending me the necessary pins for shortening the wires! Since I am a "small-potatoes" customer - this is pretty nice! Thought you guys should know. Dave ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:13 PM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: AeroFlash Service Ditto your comments on AeroFlesh. I also have gotten great service from them. Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: "David & Elaine Lamphere" Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 3:59 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: AeroFlash Service > > > Bought a two strobe set from AeroFlash for the Wittman Tailwind I am > building. > I noticed that the leads were too long going to the bulbs because I had > mounted the power supply units fairly close to the bulbs. Since I didn't > want to have a bunch of coiled wire there, I decided to shorten them. > First, I found out that the male crimp on pins were NOT Molex .06 or .09 > as I thought, then wondered if the length of the wires was critical.. Sent > off an email to Customer service at AeroFlash using the web-site form and > asked about wire length and what the connectors were. > > They told me that the length was not critical, the contacts were made by > Tyco and are sending me the necessary pins for shortening the wires! Since > I am a "small-potatoes" customer - this is pretty nice! Thought you guys > should know. > > Dave > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:50 PM PST US From: "glaesers" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blowing fuses John, I actually heard the 'pop' of the fuses! (It was a quiet evening in the garage) I inserted the first plug, got the green light, and when I removed it, I heard the pop, but didn't realize what it was. Then I inserted the second one, got the green light again, and then removed it and heard the pop again. Then I re-inserted the plugs - no green light. I'm using regular automotive fuses. The circuits work just fine when I insert the plugs. I've got another data point - just went out and played again... This time I inserted and removed the hot plugs one at a time, no problem. So I plugged both in and removed one, and POP, the fuse of the one still plugged in blew. The fuse for the one I removed is still fine, and I can insert and remove that one with no problem, and the inserting/removing other one has no effect, now that the circuit is dead. I'm not sure how I managed to get both that first time (just lucky I guess :-) So it appears that when both are charging, don't remove one at a time, instead, unplug the cord (which kills both simultaneously). But I'd still like to know why the fuse blows. Thanks, Dennis Subject: Re: Blowing fuses From: john@ballofshame.com How do you know when the fuse is blowing? For example, if you plug both in and there's a short somewhere, one fuse may blow and the other one will look OK. The charger still sees a battery so it'll still turn green. You unplug one (the blown one) and notice the fuse is blown. You unplug the other one, jostle something that shorts out again, and it blows the 2nd fuse. I'm not suggesting this happened. I'm just curious how you determined the timing of when the fuse actually blew. Do you see any marking on the connectors or recepticle that would indicate an arc? Are you using a fast or slow fuse? Maybe there's just a small arc when you disconnect it and you have to use a slow blow fuse? That would seem strange to me. The most obvious answer would be that there's a short in one of the recepticles or the plugs. That's so simple to check that it should be the first step, I guess. Maybe I'm missing something even more obvious. -John ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:25 PM PST US From: "Dennis Johnson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: GS-Air Strobe Current 6 Amps Last week, a reader asked about sizing the fuse and wires for a GS-Air strobe light power supply. The GS-Air strobe light is part of a wingtip position and strobe light unit. The position lights are LEDs and the strobe lights are conventional strobes. The strobes are powered by a single, remote power supply. For more info: www.gs-air.com I replied that I used a 10 amp fuse instead of the 15 amp fuse in the instruction manual and haven't had a problem in my first 50 hours of flight. Bob asked me to measure the actual current draw, which I did today. My GS-Air strobe power supply is model XPAK604X-HR, 60 watt 4 outlet strobe power supply with half speed flash patterns. It has two selectable output levels, high and low. I run mine on high. I bought mine a year or so ago and this power supply was a new model and replaced the previous one. The older model may consume more or less current than mine. Using the "bar graph" function on my Fluke 87 meter, the current draw fluctuated from zero to maybe 10 or so amps (I couldn't really tell), but spent most of it's time between 5.5 and 6.5 amps. The bar graph function on the display more or less duplicates an analog meter's response rate. I had intended to use a cheap ($5 from Harbor Freight) analog meter, but it could only measure up to 0.5 amp. Lucky for me, I read the meter's instructions first and didn't blow the meter's fuse! By the way, I'm really happy with these strobe light/position light combination units. They use LEDs for the position lights (green or red forward, white aft) and are cheaper and appear more aerodynamic than the Whelens. The GS-Air website has a 15 page document that explains how they meet the FAA requirement, in case you happen to get a grouchy inspector when it comes time to sign off your airplane. Regards, Dennis Johnson Lancair Legacy, now flying ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:06 PM PST US From: "Bill Denton" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) For the life of me I can't remember which piece of equipment it was, but. There was some piece of avionics, which I think was a nav/com, that would maintain "state" if turned off via an avionics master, but would not if turned off via the power switch. In other words, if you turned it off via an avionics master, when you turned it back on it would still be set to the same active and standby frequencies, and perhaps some other settings. But if you turned it off with the power switch, when you turned it back on if would wake up with some type of "default" settings. To me, this would be a good reason for including an avionics master switch. Does anyone else remember which piece of equipment offered a function like this? I think it was something fairly recent by Garmin, but I'm not sure. From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics Master (to be or not to be) Greg if you want a avionic master switch by golly PUT ONE IN, and be proud and happy, because it will work just like you think it will and know you like. After you plow thru all the required reading and "data" which is really an elaborate opinion dressed up with a bunch of gobbly-gook, bottom line its your choice and yours alone. Bob has good points, but there not all quintessential or relevant. For examples some modern avionics, like the very popular excellent Icom A200 com radio needs to be OFF during start! So does my old Collins transponder. You can use the little volume/off switch or mode switch and turn them on and off individually, but it's a pain. Bob may call for Icom's head and berate them for their design, but he is not going to buy you a new Icom when it fries. If you insist on leaving avionics on during start it could happen. By the way the ICOM A200 is an awesome radio and a super value, recommend. One big fat beautiful avionics master switch is nice. You can of course avoid single point failure several ways. I think the e-bus will do it, or two switches in parallel, even a single throw, double pole switch would do it. Chance is the master switch will never fail, and once you throw that switch on its not going to fail, my opinion. Are you flying IFR at 18,000 ft or day/night vfr. Just use good old common sense. I sometimes disagree with Bob and this is one of them. This is one of those topics Bob has a very strong opinion on, emphasis on opinion, but don't let any one tell you what to do when it comes down to preference, which this is. All you have to know is there is NOT a good reason for leaving an avionics master switch out of your panel. If that is what you want, it's very simple, you want it, put it in. It's common and useful even today. Is opinion & preference not safety, end of story. Here is another professional opinion: http://avionicswest.com/articles.htm Scroll to the bottom, "Avionics Master Switch" article Good Luck, and don't over think it and use the KISS principle. George ATP/CFI-II-ME/MSME >From: "Greg Vouga" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Master > >All, > >I'm working on my panel and I'm trying >to decide if I should put an Avionics >Master switch. In my experience with >rental planes this was nice to have >since there was one switch to turn >everything on or off during engine start >or shutdown. > >Is there any reason not to add this >feature? I'm planning an E-Bus and >Main Bus configuration similar to the Z- >13/8 design. _____ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:37 PM PST US From: "Terry Miles" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GS-Air Strobe Current 6 Amps That reader was me. Thanks, Dennis. Regards, Terry Velocity XL RG Wiriing _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: GS-Air Strobe Current 6 Amps Last week, a reader asked about sizing the fuse and wires for a GS-Air strobe light power supply. The GS-Air strobe light is part of a wingtip position and strobe light unit. The position lights are LEDs and the strobe lights are conventional strobes. The strobes are powered by a single, remote power supply. For more info: www.gs-air.com I replied that I used a 10 amp fuse instead of the 15 amp fuse in the instruction manual and haven't had a problem in my first 50 hours of flight. Bob asked me to measure the actual current draw, which I did today. My GS-Air strobe power supply is model XPAK604X-HR, 60 watt 4 outlet strobe power supply with half speed flash patterns. It has two selectable output levels, high and low. I run mine on high. I bought mine a year or so ago and this power supply was a new model and replaced the previous one. The older model may consume more or less current than mine. Using the "bar graph" function on my Fluke 87 meter, the current draw fluctuated from zero to maybe 10 or so amps (I couldn't really tell), but spent most of it's time between 5.5 and 6.5 amps. The bar graph function on the display more or less duplicates an analog meter's response rate. I had intended to use a cheap ($5 from Harbor Freight) analog meter, but it could only measure up to 0.5 amp. Lucky for me, I read the meter's instructions first and didn't blow the meter's fuse! By the way, I'm really happy with these strobe light/position light combination units. They use LEDs for the position lights (green or red forward, white aft) and are cheaper and appear more aerodynamic than the Whelens. The GS-Air website has a 15 page document that explains how they meet the FAA requirement, in case you happen to get a grouchy inspector when it comes time to sign off your airplane. Regards, Dennis Johnson Lancair Legacy, now flying ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:00 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blowing fuses Dennis, this is just a stab in the dark, since I not certain what loads you have on the plugs. But, if you have both plugs in pulling current from a common system and suddenly unplug one of them - if there is any inductive component in the system, then the termination of the current flowing in one plug might induce added current in the second plug. This may be why they only pop when you remove one. Again, just a stab in the dark. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "glaesers" Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 6:21 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Blowing fuses > > > John, > > I actually heard the 'pop' of the fuses! (It was a quiet evening in the > garage) I inserted the first plug, got the green light, and when I > removed > it, I heard the pop, but didn't realize what it was. Then I inserted the > second one, got the green light again, and then removed it and heard the > pop > again. Then I re-inserted the plugs - no green light. I'm using regular > automotive fuses. > The circuits work just fine when I insert the plugs. > > I've got another data point - just went out and played again... > This time I inserted and removed the hot plugs one at a time, no problem. > So I plugged both in and removed one, and POP, the fuse of the one still > plugged in blew. The fuse for the one I removed is still fine, and I can > insert and remove that one with no problem, and the inserting/removing > other > one has no effect, now that the circuit is dead. I'm not sure how I > managed > to get both that first time (just lucky I guess :-) > So it appears that when both are charging, don't remove one at a time, > instead, unplug the cord (which kills both simultaneously). > But I'd still like to know why the fuse blows. > > Thanks, > > Dennis > > > Subject: Re: Blowing fuses > From: john@ballofshame.com > Date: Tue May 15 - 12:31 PM > > How do you know when the fuse is blowing? For example, if you plug both > in and there's a short somewhere, one fuse may blow and the other one will > look OK. The charger still sees a battery so it'll still turn green. You > unplug one (the blown one) and notice the fuse is blown. You unplug the > other one, jostle something that shorts out again, and it blows the 2nd > fuse. > > I'm not suggesting this happened. I'm just curious how you determined the > timing of when the fuse actually blew. Do you see any marking on the > connectors or recepticle that would indicate an arc? Are you using a fast > or slow fuse? > > Maybe there's just a small arc when you disconnect it and you have to use > a slow blow fuse? That would seem strange to me. > > The most obvious answer would be that there's a short in one of the > recepticles or the plugs. That's so simple to check that it should be the > first step, I guess. Maybe I'm missing something even more obvious. > > -John > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:59 PM PST US From: "r falstad" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Comm and Intercom Interconnection: Expected Results? Hi, I'm installing a Garmin GNC250XL VFR GPS/Comm and a PS Engineering 1000 II intercom. I've been checking for opens and shorts between my mic and headphone jacks and the connectors at the end of the harnesses for the Comm and Intercom. (As detailed below, I've installed three sets of jacks in this two-place airplane -- pilot, copilot and aux.) Is the following behavior to be expected? I don't want to wait until the windshield is in and everything is installed before I find out something is wrong. (The asterisked items show my specific concerns/questions.) ***Mic Tip: Continuity for Pilot's and Aux Mike jacks to correct pin on both Comm and Intercom connectors. The copilot mic tip has continuity to Intercom pin but shows 164 ohms resistance to Comm pin whether PTT button is pushed or not. ***Mic Audio Hi: Continuity for both pilot's and aux mic jacks to both Comm and Intercom. Copilot's mic jack has continuity to Intercom but is "open" to Comm pin. Mic Audio Lo: All three jacks show continuity to both Comm and Intercom. ***Headphones Tip: Pilot's and copilot's phone jacks show continuity to Intercom but are "open" to Comm. Aux phone jack shows continuity to both Comm and Intercom. Headphones Ring: All three jacks show continuity to both Comm and Intercom. Additional details about my installation follow: The wiring diagram for the Comm shows (numbers in parenthesis are pin numbers on that units connector): - (4) Mic Key to Mic Jack - (2) Mic Audio Hi to Mic Jack - (3) Mic Audio Shield (Low) to Mic Jack - (5) Comm Audio Hi to Audio Panel - (6) Comm Audio Low to Audio Panel The wiring diagram for the Intercom shows: - (12) Aircraft Radio PTT to Aux Mic Jack - (25) Aircraft Mic Audio Hi to Aux Mic Jack - (13) Aircraft Mic Audio Low to Aux Mic Jack - (17) A/C Radio Phone Audio Hi to Aux Headphone Jack - (4) A/C Radio Phone Audio Low to Aux Headphone Jack I've installed an aux mic jack and aux headphone jack in addition to the pilot's and copilot's jacks. I've soldered the wires from both the Comm and the Intercom to their respective points on the aux jacks. That way if my Intercom dies, I can plug directly into the Comm and completely bypass the Intercom. The PTT wires for the Aux Mic Jack run to a two-pin Molex connector just downstream from the pilot's control stick. The respective wires from each of the pilot's and aux jack are crimped into one pin. (I didn't attach the shields together here to avoid a ground loop. Shields are connected together elsewhere.) I'm also using two conductor 22 AWG shielded wire and am using the shield for the "Lo" conductor. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Bob GlaStar N248BF ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:08 PM PST US From: "Christopher Barber" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GS-Air Strobe Current 6 Amps Dennis, Not meaning to be a complete bonehead, but where on the GS-Air site is the 15 page paper you refer to. I poked around and could not find it. Their site has always been rudimentary and the only thing I saw was ferference to meeting FAR Part 23, but no link to a paper. I have had my lights from them for a couple of years and installed them to my Velocity Build a few months ago, however, even though I have faith in the product, I would like to have documentaion to show a DAR now that I am getting somewhat closer to actually flying. TIA. All the best, Chris Barber Houston, Texas www.LoneStarVelocity.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Johnson To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:54 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: GS-Air Strobe Current 6 Amps Last week, a reader asked about sizing the fuse and wires for a GS-Air strobe light power supply. The GS-Air strobe light is part of a wingtip position and strobe light unit. The position lights are LEDs and the strobe lights are conventional strobes. The strobes are powered by a single, remote power supply. For more info: www.gs-air.com I replied that I used a 10 amp fuse instead of the 15 amp fuse in the instruction manual and haven't had a problem in my first 50 hours of flight. Bob asked me to measure the actual current draw, which I did today. My GS-Air strobe power supply is model XPAK604X-HR, 60 watt 4 outlet strobe power supply with half speed flash patterns. It has two selectable output levels, high and low. I run mine on high. I bought mine a year or so ago and this power supply was a new model and replaced the previous one. The older model may consume more or less current than mine. Using the "bar graph" function on my Fluke 87 meter, the current draw fluctuated from zero to maybe 10 or so amps (I couldn't really tell), but spent most of it's time between 5.5 and 6.5 amps. The bar graph function on the display more or less duplicates an analog meter's response rate. I had intended to use a cheap ($5 from Harbor Freight) analog meter, but it could only measure up to 0.5 amp. Lucky for me, I read the meter's instructions first and didn't blow the meter's fuse! By the way, I'm really happy with these strobe light/position light combination units. They use LEDs for the position lights (green or red forward, white aft) and are cheaper and appear more aerodynamic than the Whelens. The GS-Air website has a 15 page document that explains how they meet the FAA requirement, in case you happen to get a grouchy inspector when it comes time to sign off your airplane. Regards, Dennis Johnson Lancair Legacy, now flying ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.