AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sat 05/26/07


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:08 AM - Avionics cooling Fan (Carlos Trigo)
     2. 06:00 AM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (William Gill)
     3. 07:11 AM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 08:11 AM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (Carlos Trigo)
     5. 08:24 AM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 11:44 AM - Electronics stolen (Daniel De Winter)
     7. 12:06 PM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (William Gill)
     8. 01:48 PM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (Carlos Trigo)
     9. 02:17 PM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (William Gill)
    10. 04:22 PM - Re: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI (Ken)
    11. 04:43 PM - Re: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI (Peter Harris)
    12. 04:58 PM - Re: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI (Peter Harris)
    13. 06:15 PM - Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable (Jeff)
    14. 08:32 PM - Re: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable (Ron Quillin)
    15. 08:35 PM - Re: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI (Peter Harris)
    16. 11:09 PM - Re: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:08:26 AM PST US
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: Avionics cooling Fan
    > > Go with a 12v fan. > > Speaking of avionics cooling fans, I already bought one from ACS but I didn't installed it yet. It has 3 port, which I will direct one to the EFIS, other to the center avionics stack ( COMM, TXPD and GPS) and the third to several electronic boards mounted behind the panel. Whilst planning its installation, I still didn't decide how to switch power to it: - should it have a dedicated "manual" On/Off switch? - or, would it be better to hook it up to the Avionics master switch (yes, I have one, please don't discuss this subject now)? This way the fan will be turned On whenever I turn On the Avionics master switch.. - or, what I believe it would be the best way, i.e to install a thermostatic switch, which would turn On the fan whenever the air temperature behind the panel gets too hot . In this last solution, where can I find a thermostatic switch? And what should be that temperature limit? Comments and suggestions appreciated ! Carlos Trigo RV-9A


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:00:21 AM PST US
    From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
    Subject: Avionics cooling Fan
    Hello Carlos, I purchased the AmeriKing 3-port cooling fan from ACS, but returned it due to its bulky size and the limited area I had for mounting such in an IFR RV-7. I settled on the 3-port Cyclone fan from ACS which is lighter and about 1/3 the size of the AmeriKing unit. I do not have an avionics master or the E-buss, so I installed a panel mounted switch for the avionics cooling fan to allow load shedding if the alternator drops off line. My EFIS has an internal back-up battery and all other panel electronics are controlled by the unit power switch or a panel mounted switch. Connecting the cooling fan to the avionics master (main buss) seems like a good plan, but I would not put it on the E-buss if you incorporated such. Bill RV-7 finishing Lee's Summit, MO -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:06 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> > > Go with a 12v fan. > > Speaking of avionics cooling fans, I already bought one from ACS but I didn't installed it yet. It has 3 port, which I will direct one to the EFIS, other to the center avionics stack ( COMM, TXPD and GPS) and the third to several electronic boards mounted behind the panel. Whilst planning its installation, I still didn't decide how to switch power to it: - should it have a dedicated "manual" On/Off switch? - or, would it be better to hook it up to the Avionics master switch (yes, I have one, please don't discuss this subject now)? This way the fan will be turned On whenever I turn On the Avionics master switch.. - or, what I believe it would be the best way, i.e to install a thermostatic switch, which would turn On the fan whenever the air temperature behind the panel gets too hot . In this last solution, where can I find a thermostatic switch? And what should be that temperature limit? Comments and suggestions appreciated ! Carlos Trigo RV-9A


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:11:06 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Avionics cooling Fan
    At 12:05 PM 5/26/2007 +0100, you wrote: ><trigo@mail.telepac.pt> > >> >> Go with a 12v fan. >> > >Speaking of avionics cooling fans, I already bought one from ACS but I >didn't installed it yet. >It has 3 port, which I will direct one to the EFIS, other to the center >avionics stack ( COMM, TXPD and GPS) and the third to several electronic >boards mounted behind the panel. >Whilst planning its installation, I still didn't decide how to switch >power to it: > > - should it have a dedicated "manual" On/Off switch? > - or, would it be better to hook it up to the Avionics master switch > (yes, I have one, please don't discuss this subject now)? This way the > fan will be turned On whenever I turn On the Avionics master switch.. > - or, what I believe it would be the best way, i.e to install a > thermostatic switch, which would turn On the fan whenever the air > temperature behind the panel gets too hot . > >In this last solution, where can I find a thermostatic switch? And what >should be that temperature limit? Keep it simple. Hot wire it to the e-bus. Any time any radio is on, the fan is on. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:11:08 AM PST US
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: Re: Avionics cooling Fan
    Bill Can you please post the Cyclone fan dimensions and weight difference. Has it the same blowing capacity of the Ameri-King? Carlos P.S. - if I decide for the thermostatic switch, who knows a source for that ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 1:58 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan > <wgill10@comcast.net> > > Hello Carlos, > > I purchased the AmeriKing 3-port cooling fan from ACS, but returned it > due to its bulky size and the limited area I had for mounting such in an > IFR > RV-7. I settled on the 3-port Cyclone fan from ACS which is lighter and > about 1/3 the size of the AmeriKing unit. > > I do not have an avionics master or the E-buss, so I installed a panel > mounted switch for the avionics cooling fan to allow load shedding if > the alternator drops off line. My EFIS has an internal back-up battery > and all other panel electronics are controlled by the unit power switch > or a panel mounted switch. > > Connecting the cooling fan to the avionics master (main buss) seems like > a good plan, but I would not put it on the E-buss if you incorporated > such. > > Bill > RV-7 finishing > Lee's Summit, MO >


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:24:37 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Avionics cooling Fan
    > > >Connecting the cooling fan to the avionics master (main buss) seems like >a good plan, but I would not put it on the E-buss if you incorporated >such. Good thought. Normally, the e-bus has a minimum of radios on it and when operating e-bus only, cooling would not be expected to be necessary. I agree, the fan should hot wire to the main bus. Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:44:27 AM PST US
    From: Daniel De Winter <daniel_de_winter@yahoo.co.uk>
    Subject: Electronics stolen
    To all pilots and aviation enthousiastics, On May 25, my engine and panel with 2*EFIS and EIS6000 from GRT were stolen from my airceraft VM-1 Esqual at EBST in Belgium. The aircraft was severely damaged. You can find all serial numbers below. If anyone of you would recognize these numbers, please let me know ASAP. I woild be very grateful. EquipmentDescriptionPart #Serial # Jabiru 3300 ccEngine 33A559 Electric Gyro Corp.Turn & Bank indicator1394T100-7Z2310-484 United Instruments, INC.Airspeed indicator (0-200 knots/250mph)8025185256 United Instruments, INC.Altimeter (-1,000 to 20,000 feet)5934PM-3432773 Garmin SL30 NavComm013-00105-0125902119 Garmin GTX330Transponder Mode S010-00230-0184113957 Flightcom 403MCIntercom403mc9796 Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. EFIS Horizon Series 1Multi Function Display MFD-01-0300145 Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. EFIS Horizon Series 2Multi Function Display MFD-01-0300246 Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc. EIS6000Engine monitorEIS-6000J15873 VDO Trading AGRPM/hours indicator (0-4000 rpm)999 165 009021 449 Danny De Winter PH-DWD VM-1 Esqual ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:06:05 PM PST US
    From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
    Subject: Avionics cooling Fan
    Carlos, The Cyclone has somewhat less airflow than the Ameri-King and I believe the dimensions are about 4" X 4" X 1.25" with an approximate weight of 6 oz. I don't have the exact figures as I have not yet received the Cyclone fan - ordered last Friday. An RV-9 friend was helping me on my project and I told him I was having trouble finding a suitable location to mount the cooling fan. Of course, he began identifying many locations...then I showed him the Ameri-King fan. He then said, "Send it back and get the Cyclone." So, that's what I did. The figures I gave here were his approximations. I can provide the exact weight & measurements next week unless someone else on the list here beats me to it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> Bill Can you please post the Cyclone fan dimensions and weight difference. Has it the same blowing capacity of the Ameri-King? Carlos P.S. - if I decide for the thermostatic switch, who knows a source for that ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 1:58 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan > <wgill10@comcast.net> > > Hello Carlos, > > I purchased the AmeriKing 3-port cooling fan from ACS, but returned it > due to its bulky size and the limited area I had for mounting such in an > IFR > RV-7. I settled on the 3-port Cyclone fan from ACS which is lighter and > about 1/3 the size of the AmeriKing unit. > > I do not have an avionics master or the E-buss, so I installed a panel > mounted switch for the avionics cooling fan to allow load shedding if > the alternator drops off line. My EFIS has an internal back-up battery > and all other panel electronics are controlled by the unit power switch > or a panel mounted switch. > > Connecting the cooling fan to the avionics master (main buss) seems like > a good plan, but I would not put it on the E-buss if you incorporated > such. > > Bill > RV-7 finishing > Lee's Summit, MO >


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:48:56 PM PST US
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: Re: Avionics cooling Fan
    Thanks Bill That is enough for me. Maybe I should do the same as you, since I concluded (after a search on my shelves) that I also have the Ameri-King. By the way, where did you decide to install your fan ? Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:05 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan > <wgill10@comcast.net> > > Carlos, > > The Cyclone has somewhat less airflow than the Ameri-King and I believe > the dimensions are about 4" X 4" X 1.25" with an approximate weight of 6 > oz. I don't have the exact figures as I have not yet received the > Cyclone fan - ordered last Friday. > > An RV-9 friend was helping me on my project and I told him I was having > trouble finding a suitable location to mount the cooling fan. Of course, > he began identifying many locations...then I showed him the Ameri-King > fan. He then said, "Send it back and get the Cyclone." So, that's what I > did. The figures I gave here were his approximations. I can provide the > exact weight & measurements next week unless someone else on the list > here beats me to it. > > Bill >


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:17:32 PM PST US
    From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
    Subject: Avionics cooling Fan
    Carlos, I am mounting the fan on the inside of the left panel rib between the sub-panel and firewall. There are likely better places, but the full panel and wiring runs restricted such for my installation. I didn't have any trouble returning the Ameri-King to ACS even though I was outside of their 30-day return period and the unit was still in "new" condition. They said there may be a 15% restocking fee...we'll see. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> Thanks Bill That is enough for me. Maybe I should do the same as you, since I concluded (after a search on my shelves) that I also have the Ameri-King. By the way, where did you decide to install your fan ? Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:05 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan > <wgill10@comcast.net> > > Carlos, > > The Cyclone has somewhat less airflow than the Ameri-King and I believe > the dimensions are about 4" X 4" X 1.25" with an approximate weight of 6 > oz. I don't have the exact figures as I have not yet received the > Cyclone fan - ordered last Friday. > > An RV-9 friend was helping me on my project and I told him I was having > trouble finding a suitable location to mount the cooling fan. Of course, > he began identifying many locations...then I showed him the Ameri-King > fan. He then said, "Send it back and get the Cyclone." So, that's what I > did. The figures I gave here were his approximations. I can provide the > exact weight & measurements next week unless someone else on the list > here beats me to it. > > Bill >


    Message 10


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    Time: 04:22:00 PM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
    Peter Yes I saw your diagram. You seem to be missing the point that the purpose of the crowbar ovm is to pop a circuit breaker which removes power to the relay. The relay stays unpowered until you manually reset the circuit breaker. Note the 2 amp breaker to the right of the master switch in Z-21A. Ken Peter Harris wrote: > >Hi Ken, >Not sure if you saw my diagram. I have adopted the S704-1 alternator >disconnect relay with the crowbar across the coil same as Z-21A and Z-25. >The crowbar will shunt the coil and the relay will disconnect. >Instead of earthing the crowbar through the master switch I have set it >direct to earth. In my diagram the alternator relay will close when I close >the master switch which connects the battery to the alt relay diode and >feeds the coil, closing the alt relay. >I raised the question what happens when the regulator fails because if you >look at Z-21A the alt relay opens when the crowbar conducts but it will >close again when the crowbar stops conducting ie the unregulated output will >continue to feed to the coil + shunt crowbar and the crowbar would need to >continue to conduct this energy otherwise the relay will close again. Yes I >guess the diodes would pop. >In Z21-A you would need to manually open the master switch to stop the >process. I don't see any other breaker that would interrupt power to the >relay? (I can see now that my coil earth would not allow this) >Am I missing something? >What do you think Ken ? >Regards >Peter > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken >Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 11:04 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI > > >Peter > >You are right to ask a few more questions and learn more which is great >but you are causing yourself difficulties by straying too far from the Z >diagrams. > >You should have a circuit breaker installed so that the OVM can trip the >breaker and open the relay. The ovm will destroy itself if it shorts out >the battery feed or the alternator feed. (Well actually it will likely >blow up the diodes first in your diagram) You want the ovm to trip a >breaker that supplies power to the relay. The relay then disconnects >the alternator. I use a 2 amp breaker but 5 amp also works. The ovm is >a short circuit when it activates. Take another look at the Z diagrams >as I don't think you want the ovm in series with any diodes. One amp >diodes will permanently pop like fuses if the ovm actuates in your diagram. > >I do not use a separate starter contactor in addition to the contactor >inside my starter BUT the power to my starter does flow through my main >battery contactor! > >Ken > >Peter Harris wrote: > > > >> >> >>First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the >>crowbar CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the >>electronic ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I >>had to go home and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff. >> >>I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A >>but I have wandered astray a bit as follows: >> >> >> >>1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the >>battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery >>contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the >>alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for >>running the starter current through two series relays ? >> >>2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery >>from alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery >>contactor which connects the alternator relay and it connects the main >>bus. >> >>3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from >>the master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that >>the current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through >>the master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is >>limited by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another >>wire routed out to the engine bay. >> >>4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which >>access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) >>each with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery >>plus alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from >>alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to >>choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a >>feel good feature. >> >> >> >>I am offering this amendment fully expecting a flame out and ready to >>eat humble pie and learn some more, mean time I will stay off the beer. >> >>Circuit details follow : >> >>Peter >> >> >>


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:43:00 PM PST US
    From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
    Thanks Ken that clears it up somehow I missed that important detail! Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Sunday, 27 May 2007 9:19 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI Peter Yes I saw your diagram. You seem to be missing the point that the purpose of the crowbar ovm is to pop a circuit breaker which removes power to the relay. The relay stays unpowered until you manually reset the circuit breaker. Note the 2 amp breaker to the right of the master switch in Z-21A. Ken Peter Harris wrote: <peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > >Hi Ken, >Not sure if you saw my diagram. I have adopted the S704-1 alternator >disconnect relay with the crowbar across the coil same as Z-21A and Z-25. >The crowbar will shunt the coil and the relay will disconnect. >Instead of earthing the crowbar through the master switch I have set it >direct to earth. In my diagram the alternator relay will close when I close >the master switch which connects the battery to the alt relay diode and >feeds the coil, closing the alt relay. >I raised the question what happens when the regulator fails because if you >look at Z-21A the alt relay opens when the crowbar conducts but it will >close again when the crowbar stops conducting ie the unregulated output will >continue to feed to the coil + shunt crowbar and the crowbar would need to >continue to conduct this energy otherwise the relay will close again. Yes I >guess the diodes would pop. >In Z21-A you would need to manually open the master switch to stop the >process. I don't see any other breaker that would interrupt power to the >relay? (I can see now that my coil earth would not allow this) >Am I missing something? >What do you think Ken ? >Regards >Peter > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken >Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 11:04 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI > > >Peter > >You are right to ask a few more questions and learn more which is great >but you are causing yourself difficulties by straying too far from the Z >diagrams. > >You should have a circuit breaker installed so that the OVM can trip the >breaker and open the relay. The ovm will destroy itself if it shorts out >the battery feed or the alternator feed. (Well actually it will likely >blow up the diodes first in your diagram) You want the ovm to trip a >breaker that supplies power to the relay. The relay then disconnects >the alternator. I use a 2 amp breaker but 5 amp also works. The ovm is >a short circuit when it activates. Take another look at the Z diagrams >as I don't think you want the ovm in series with any diodes. One amp >diodes will permanently pop like fuses if the ovm actuates in your diagram. > >I do not use a separate starter contactor in addition to the contactor >inside my starter BUT the power to my starter does flow through my main >battery contactor! > >Ken > >Peter Harris wrote: > > > >> >> >>First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the >>crowbar CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the >>electronic ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I >>had to go home and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff. >> >>I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A >>but I have wandered astray a bit as follows: >> >> >> >>1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the >>battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery >>contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the >>alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for >>running the starter current through two series relays ? >> >>2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery >>from alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery >>contactor which connects the alternator relay and it connects the main >>bus. >> >>3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from >>the master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that >>the current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through >>the master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is >>limited by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another >>wire routed out to the engine bay. >> >>4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which >>access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) >>each with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery >>plus alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from >>alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to >>choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a >>feel good feature. >> >> >> >>I am offering this amendment fully expecting a flame out and ready to >>eat humble pie and learn some more, mean time I will stay off the beer. >> >>Circuit details follow : >> >>Peter >> >> >>


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:58:35 PM PST US
    From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
    Thanks Bob, I like the relay thing because it separates the two sources of power and I can choose either battery or alternator independently. Same principle as your note 24 where the bridge rectifier is used to combine two sources for the job and also used in Z19, also I understand that this idea is accepted here by CASA as an independent dual circuit. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 10:37 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 08:02 AM 5/24/2007 +1000, you wrote: ><peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > >Bob, Sorry about my attachment, the scan att is not accepted on the Yahoo >lists I know best. >I should correct item 3 below, pls disregard my reference to the coil >resistance which is shunted by the crowbar, I hope that helps to make more >sense? >But I am curious to know how much current to expect through the crowbar if >the regulator fails. I can still remember a boiling battery and think about >the amount of energy to be wasted through the crowbar. >Thanks, >Peter > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. >Nuckolls, III >Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 2:12 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI > > It would be MUCH faster if you could sketch your > changes for scanning and posting to the List. I'm > not sure the images in my head based on your words > match the reality of your proposal. > > Bob . . . > >At 03:05 PM 5/23/2007 +1000, you wrote: > > > > > > >First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the crowbar > >CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the electronic > >ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I had to go home > >and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff. > > > >I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A but I > >have wandered astray a bit as follows: > > > > > > > >1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the > >battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery > >contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the > >alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for > >running the starter current through two series relays ? You're stirring the recipe for success again . . . Starter contactors are downstream of battery contactors so that should a starter contactor stick, you still have a way to shut the starter off. This has been done on hundreds of thousands of airplanes for almost 100 years. > > > >2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery from > >alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery contactor which > >connects the alternator relay and it connects the main bus. > > > >3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from the > >master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that the > >current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through the > >master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is limited > >by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another wire routed > >out to the engine bay. > > > >4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which > >access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) each > >with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery plus > >alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from > >alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to > >choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a feel > >good feature. I'm having trouble understanding what you think you're gaining with the diodes thing . . . But it's your airplane. Bob . . .


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:15:47 PM PST US
    From: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable
    All, In January Bob wrote: "Coax cable length should be minimized for the lengths commonly used in light aircraft, both type of cable and variability in length will have no observable effect on performance.", but the Garmin GTX 327 Installation Manual has a list of recommended Antenna Cable Types by length on page 9. They sure imply that it is critical. For the 12.5 foot length I need, Garmin recommends either RG304 or M17/112. Let me just say the RG304 seems to be scarce. They do say that any 50 ohm, double shielded cable may be used, provided it introduces less that 1.5 dB attenuation at 1 ghz including the connector. It is worth asking what that means and how to measure it? What is being used successfully in the real world? RG400? Jim Wier seems to still prefer RG58! The Artex installation instructions call for 5 conductor shielded cable either 22 AWG or 24 AWG. Since no vendor seems to carry this cable, others must be using some thing else. I did find 4 conductor shielded cable on B&C. Anyone have a source or recommendation? Thanks . Jeff Davidson Wiring up my CH601-HD/Jabiru 3300/Dynon & Garmin avionics


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:32:11 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable
    From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin@gmail.com>
    At 18:13 5/26/2007, you wrote: >All, >In January Bob wrote: >"Coax cable length should be minimized for the lengths commonly >used in light aircraft, both type of cable and variability in length >will have no observable effect on performance.", but the Garmin >GTX 327 Installation Manual has a list of recommended Antenna Cable >Types by length on page 9. They sure imply that it is critical. >For the 12.5 foot length I need, Garmin recommends either RG304 or >M17/112. Let me just say the RG304 seems to be scarce. These folks used to carry a good line of coax and stormscope antenna and control cables, but their web site looks to be undergoing some major changes. http://www.ecsdirect.com/ >They do say that any 50 ohm, double shielded cable may be used, >provided it introduces less that 1.5 dB attenuation at 1 ghz including >the connector. It is worth asking what that means and how to measure >it? What is being used successfully in the real world? RG400? I used 400 with the GTX-33 >Jim Wier seems to still prefer RG58! >The Artex installation instructions call for 5 conductor shielded >cable either >22 AWG or 24 AWG. Since no vendor seems to carry this cable, >others must be using some thing else. I did find 4 conductor >shielded cable on B&C. >Anyone have a source or recommendation? I have some M27500-24ML8TC8 MIL rated open airframe wiring; 8 - 24AWG connectors, shielded, overall jacket 0.157 dia. 0.41 oz/ft. Mfg by BICC Brand Rex P.O. Box 498 1600 W. Main St. Willimantic, CT 06226 CAGE Code: 71124 Not sure what the policy here is regarding selling stuff, so if you're interested, contact me directly. Ron Q.


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:35:44 PM PST US
    From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI
    That should read I like the diode thing. (I like relay things too) Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Harris Sent: Sunday, 27 May 2007 9:57 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI <peterjfharris@bigpond.com> Thanks Bob, I like the relay thing because it separates the two sources of power and I can choose either battery or alternator independently. Same principle as your note 24 where the bridge rectifier is used to combine two sources for the job and also used in Z19, also I understand that this idea is accepted here by CASA as an independent dual circuit. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 10:37 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 08:02 AM 5/24/2007 +1000, you wrote: ><peterjfharris@bigpond.com> > >Bob, Sorry about my attachment, the scan att is not accepted on the Yahoo >lists I know best. >I should correct item 3 below, pls disregard my reference to the coil >resistance which is shunted by the crowbar, I hope that helps to make more >sense? >But I am curious to know how much current to expect through the crowbar if >the regulator fails. I can still remember a boiling battery and think about >the amount of energy to be wasted through the crowbar. >Thanks, >Peter > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. >Nuckolls, III >Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2007 2:12 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual circuit for J3300 EFI > > It would be MUCH faster if you could sketch your > changes for scanning and posting to the List. I'm > not sure the images in my head based on your words > match the reality of your proposal. > > Bob . . . > >At 03:05 PM 5/23/2007 +1000, you wrote: > > > > > > >First a big thank you Bob for the PM self exciting feature and the crowbar > >CB tripper. Watching the voltmeter stay up, and running the electronic > >ignition all with the master switch off was too much and I had to go home > >and have a couple of beers to celebrate it. Clever stuff. > > > >I have been finishing installation of a dual circuit based on Z-21A but I > >have wandered astray a bit as follows: > > > > > > > >1. Re Z21-A I have connected the starter relay direct to the > >battery and not via the battery contactor. I am using the battery > >contactor only to interrupt the charging current (and to close the > >alternator relay.) I did this only because I do not know the logic for > >running the starter current through two series relays ? You're stirring the recipe for success again . . . Starter contactors are downstream of battery contactors so that should a starter contactor stick, you still have a way to shut the starter off. This has been done on hundreds of thousands of airplanes for almost 100 years. > > > >2. I have retained the DPST master switch to isolate battery from > >alternator from main bus. This master connects the battery contactor which > >connects the alternator relay and it connects the main bus. > > > >3. I have earthed the alternator relay coil and action it from the > >master switch through the battery contactor. I was thinking that the > >current from a failed regulator will otherwise go to earth through the > >master switch ? But how much current to expect here, I guess it is limited > >by the coil resistance. The method I have used saves another wire routed > >out to the engine bay. > > > >4. For the ebus I just had to use those two big diodes which > >access either the battery or the alternator or both (normally both) each > >with a green LED signal light. Z21-A offers power from battery plus > >alternator , or from battery but can not be switched to run from > >alternator only. So What ? Well it just appealed to me to be able to > >choose which power source in any emergency and the green lights are a feel > >good feature. I'm having trouble understanding what you think you're gaining with the diodes thing . . . But it's your airplane. Bob . . .


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:09:08 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable
    Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin 327 XPDR Cable & Artex me406 ELT cable All, In January Bob wrote: "Coax cable length should be minimized for the lengths commonly used in light aircraft, both type of cable and variability in length will have no observable effect on performance.", but the Garmin GTX 327 Installation Manual has a list of recommended Antenna Cable Types by length on page 9. They sure imply that it is critical. For the 12.5 foot length I need, Garmin recommends either RG304 or M17/112. Let me just say the RG304 seems to be scarce. They do say that any 50 ohm, double shielded cable may be used, provided it introduces less that 1.5 dB attenuation at 1 ghz including the connector. It is worth asking what that means and how to measure it? What is being used successfully in the real world? RG400? Jim Wier seems to still prefer RG58! Hmmm . . . maybe he's trying to use up a 20,000ft spool. I dumped all my RG-58 at a hamfest about 20 years ago. Get some LMR-400 cable and the connectors appropriate to your antenna and radio. You can probably find a cable house that will put the connectors on a custom length of LMR-400 which is still relatively small and easy to handle. Alternatively, you can go to something like RG-214 which according to the calculator at: http://www.timesmicrowave.com/cgi-bin/calculate.pl Will meet Garmin's suggestions for 1.0 db of 1GHz loss for the 12.5 foot distance you've cited. The Artex installation instructions call for 5 conductor shielded cable either 22 AWG or 24 AWG. Since no vendor seems to carry this cable, others must be using some thing else. I did find 4 conductor shielded cable on B&C. Anyone have a source or recommendation? Not in aircraft wire. And in PVC, you'd probably have to buy a 100' spool to meet most catalog minimum buys. I'm skeptical of the need to shield these wires. but you could use two runs of shielded trio from B&C in aircraft wire. If I had schematics for the hardware at both ends, we might be able to recommend a shielded quad with shield being used as one of the 5 conductors (ground). Steinair has shielded quads. Bob . . .




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