---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/30/07: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:02 AM - Extra battery (Sam Marlow) 2. 10:54 AM - Some AeroElectric Connection Questions (Dan Reeves) 3. 11:07 AM - Interesting story... comments? (Mark Sletten) 4. 12:03 PM - Re: Extra battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 12:07 PM - Re: Extra battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 03:08 PM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (William Gill) 7. 03:55 PM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (Carlos Trigo) 8. 04:04 PM - Re: Extra battery () 9. 04:13 PM - Re: Avionics cooling Fan (William Gill) 10. 07:05 PM - Whelen strobe connecter tools (Eric Schlanser) 11. 07:09 PM - Re: We can't build our own avionics (sreynard) 12. 07:12 PM - Re: We can't build our own avionics (sreynard) 13. 07:42 PM - Re: Whelen strobe connecter tools (Gaye and Vaughn) 14. 08:39 PM - Intercom Repair (Neal George) 15. 08:40 PM - First Start of my rotary (Christopher Barber) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:20 AM PST US From: Sam Marlow Subject: AeroElectric-List: Extra battery I'm looking to put a second battery in my RV for backup, in case of alternator failure, but also to pickup clearances at busy airports, prior to engine start. I have already wired the panel but, wondered if I could just use a diode in the power line coming off the buss so the aux battery could be charged, but not power the whole system, when I'm using the radio for clearances. See crude diagram below. Thanks, Sam Marlow Aux Bat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:59 AM PST US From: Dan Reeves Subject: AeroElectric-List: Some AeroElectric Connection Questions Bob, Thanks for all of the great training you provide both on the list and in your AeroElectric Connection! I am planning on using Z-11 to wire my RV-7A but using B&C's LR3C regulator in place of the Ford regulator, the AEC9005-101 low voltage monitor module, and the crowbar o.v. protection module since all 3 functions are built into the LR3C. I'm using Z-12 as a reference for the LR3C portion of the wiring and my question is why does the LR3C just require a 5A breaker between the bus and the master switch, whereas in the Z-11 setup a fusible link is required between the bus and the master switch and the breaker is then shown between the switch and regulator? Also, on Z-11, the picture that shows the terminal locations for the S700-2-XX series of switches is numbered opposite to what is shown on page 11-16 of the AeroElectric Connection and both mention keyway up. Which is correct? Thanks again for all of your help! Dan Reeves RV-7A --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:30 AM PST US From: "Mark Sletten" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Interesting story... comments? Aeroelectric listers, I gleaned this story off another email list. Any comments? ---------- On straight-in for my home airport, about two miles out, smoke started swirling around in the cockpit. It wasn't real bad but it was definitely noticeable by both sight and smell. In hindsight it was clearly an electrical fire (smell and where the smoke was coming from around the panel) but I quickly declared an emergency saying I had a fire in the engine compartment. Don't know why I said that other than that it was what I was the most afraid of. There was no place to land short of the runway so I went into high-speed prayer mode, held gear and flaps until the last moment and landed more or less normally. Shut down on the runway and coasted to a turnoff. Couldn't do the fuel shutoff quickly so just turned it to in between left and right. Switches off, canopy up and told my wife to leave by the nearest exit. By the time she was gone, I was noticing that there was no new smoke so I decided to hunt around for the fire extinguisher (where is was supposed to be but under my flight bag.) With still no indication of a continuing fire, I started turning off switches and, having by this time convinced myself that the problem was electrical, took the glare shield off to look around. Saw nothing at first but one of the fire guys who showed up right after that found a small blackened spot in the firewall near the top right. Sure enough, the alternator wire pass through had burned through. The stud and nuts were fused and a small part of the surrounding e-glass seemed to have burned. I had two opportunities to catch this early. The first was that amps seemed to be running on the high side. We put this down to having to charge up the battery because we had had systems on with the engine off but, in hindsight, it was a clue. Then about a week ago, I had the same smell on approach to Boeing. There was no smoke, it went away after a couple minutes and I saw nothing when I removed the glareshield and inspected. Also no repeat on the return trip. Turns out that high amperage connections (like all other connections) can loosen over time. If they do so, resistance goes up, amperage goes up to compensate (at least in the case of the alternator wire) arcing takes place and eventually the whole system burns up. There is no short and therefore no cb's pop but, as I discovered, the process can start a fire. The firewall connections are hard to see (at least on the cabin side) but I am definitely adding that to my annual checklist. If the rest of you are not sure your connections are as tight as they were when you put them together, suggest you check. I'm also finding a new place for my fire extinguisher. ---------- Mark Sletten Legacy FG N828LM http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:26 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Extra battery That will work. Bob . . . At 01:00 PM 5/30/2007 -0400, you wrote: >I'm looking to put a second battery in my RV for backup, in case of >alternator failure, but also to pickup clearances at busy airports, prior >to engine start. I have already wired the panel but, wondered if I could >just use a diode in the power line coming off the buss so the aux battery >could be charged, but not power the whole system, when I'm using the radio >for clearances. See crude diagram below. >Thanks, >Sam Marlow > >Aux Battery 1.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:59 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Extra battery Opps . . . hit the send button too soon. That will work . . . but why an "extra battery"? Obviously, you're depending on the power on/off switch in the 430 to absolutely drop battery drain to zero . . . but assuming it does, why not just tie this radio to the battery bus . . . or e-bus? Alternator failure is one of the conditions that find tolerable by design in the z-figures. I.e, failure tolerance is a design goal and should not require the extra ordinary weight, wiring, diode or maintenance costs of the approach you're proposing. Bob. . . At 01:00 PM 5/30/2007 -0400, you wrote: >I'm looking to put a second battery in my RV for backup, in case of >alternator failure, but also to pickup clearances at busy airports, prior >to engine start. I have already wired the panel but, wondered if I could >just use a diode in the power line coming off the buss so the aux battery >could be charged, but not power the whole system, when I'm using the radio >for clearances. See crude diagram below. >Thanks, >Sam Marlow > >Aux Battery 1.jpg > > >incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:08 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan Carlos, I attached some photos of the Cyclone fan to illustrate its compact size. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan Thanks Bill That is enough for me. Maybe I should do the same as you, since I concluded (after a search on my shelves) that I also have the Ameri-King. By the way, where did you decide to install your fan ? Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Gill" Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 8:05 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan > > > Carlos, > > The Cyclone has somewhat less airflow than the Ameri-King and I believe > the dimensions are about 4" X 4" X 1.25" with an approximate weight of 6 > oz. I don't have the exact figures as I have not yet received the > Cyclone fan - ordered last Friday. > > An RV-9 friend was helping me on my project and I told him I was having > trouble finding a suitable location to mount the cooling fan. Of course, > he began identifying many locations...then I showed him the Ameri-King > fan. He then said, "Send it back and get the Cyclone." So, that's what I > did. The figures I gave here were his approximations. I can provide the > exact weight & measurements next week unless someone else on the list > here beats me to it. > > Bill > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:32 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan Thanks Bill Very nice little critter Did you already test power it, to hear its noise? Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Gill" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan > Carlos, > > I attached some photos of the Cyclone fan to illustrate its compact > size. > > Bill > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:14 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Extra battery Well, I wanted some sort of backup battery also. An e-buss would serve me better, but my panel is complete,I'm not wanting to redesign the electrical system. So I guess I'll live with what I have. But next airplane........ that's a different story. Thanks, for your help, I've learned a lot from your post. Sam Marlow ---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: > Opps . . . hit the send button too soon. > > That will work . . . but why an "extra battery"? > > Obviously, you're depending on the power on/off switch in the 430 to absolutely > drop battery drain to zero . . . but assuming it does, why not just tie this > radio to the battery bus . . . or e-bus? > > Alternator failure is one of the conditions that find tolerable by design > in the z-figures. I.e, failure tolerance is a design goal and should not > require the extra ordinary weight, wiring, diode or maintenance costs of > the approach you're proposing. > > Bob. . . > > > > > At 01:00 PM 5/30/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > >I'm looking to put a second battery in my RV for backup, in case of > >alternator failure, but also to pickup clearances at busy airports, prior > >to engine start. I have already wired the panel but, wondered if I could > >just use a diode in the power line coming off the buss so the aux battery > >could be charged, but not power the whole system, when I'm using the radio > >for clearances. See crude diagram below. > >Thanks, > >Sam Marlow > > > >Aux Battery 1.jpg > > > > > >incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG. > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) > ( give some practical results, but ) > ( that's not why we do it." ) > ( ) > ( Richard P. Feynman ) > ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:21 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan Yes, no better or worse than others. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:45 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan Thanks Bill Very nice little critter Did you already test power it, to hear its noise? Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Gill" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooling Fan > Carlos, > > I attached some photos of the Cyclone fan to illustrate its compact > size. > > Bill > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:43 PM PST US From: Eric Schlanser Subject: AeroElectric-List: Whelen strobe connecter tools Any suggestions on where to find Whelen strobe connecter tools? I have to remove the already installed AMP PCPS3 three pin strobe connecters to wire the wings. I think they are called Mate 'n Lock connecters. But there are a couple of kinds of Mate 'N Locks and the tools are different. Worse yet, Mouser's catalog didn't show these specific connecters(at least not by these numbers). The Radio Shack D-sub pin installation and extraction tools didn't work. I tried. Eric Schlanser --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:15 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: We can't build our own avionics From: "sreynard" > Sort of. You would have to have it approved by the FCC. > > Sec. 87.39 Equipment acceptable for licensing. > > > Transmitters listed in this part must be certificated for a > > particular use by the Commission based upon technical requirements > > contained in subpart D of this part. Sorry I'm late to the party! :) Reading the latest EAA article I had to check a couple times it didn't say AOPA on the cover! It seemed like a lot of cr*p to me. I can build an EFIS from scratch but I can't change a power FET on a stupid AM radio? Have to pull parts from the manufacturers stock? What is that happy horse. . . . They did a life-time buy on every single component and comprehensively tested each one, right?!? I don't think so! I've seen commercial and industrial grade components, but I've never seen "aircraft resistors" for sale anywhere. And if I do use "Officially Authorized" transistors they are going to guarantee them not to fail right? Then why do avionics ever need to be serviced?!? Silliness! I have been interested in the idea of building my own avionics for some time. I think it was Kitplanes that had some articles on the subject. Having worked on receiver and source test equipment projects, the idea of designing and building a radio would seem like a reasonable place to start. Shoot, with current ADC's and DAC's about the only RF needed would be a low pass filter. Software Defined Radio here we come! It's certainly a lot easier than building an airplane! Looking over the FCC regs here's something a little interesting: > TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION > > > > CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION > > > > PART 15_RADIO FREQUENCY DEVICES--Table of Contents > > > > Subpart A_General > > > > Sec. 15.23 Home-built devices. > > > > (a) Equipment authorization is not required for devices that are not > > marketed, are not constructed from a kit, and are built in quantities of > > five or less for personal use. > > (b) It is recognized that the individual builder of home-built > > equipment may not possess the means to perform the measurements for > > determining compliance with the regulations. In this case, the builder > > is expected to employ good engineering practices to meet the specified > > technical standards to the greatest extent practicable. The provisions > > of Sec. 15.5 apply to this equipment. I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty clear to me. My thinking is that if you keep on frequency, within the bandwidth limits, and make a reasonable attempt at any other spec's, you should be good to go as long as you don't try to sell them. This agrees with the ARRL news letters I've seen over the years. People get in trouble for trying to sell unlicensed transmitters or causing interference to others, not building their own. Steven Reynard Workshop prep/RV-7 Planning Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115685#115685 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:02 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: We can't build our own avionics From: "sreynard" > Articles like that just increase the challenge.... > http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/avionics/avionics.html > > deserves congratulations for putting so much together. > Now that is impressive! Food for thought. . . . :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=115688#115688 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:00 PM PST US From: "Gaye and Vaughn" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Whelen strobe connecter tools I have found the Whelen folks to be very helpfull. Have you tried giving them a call. Vaughn Teegarden ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Schlanser To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:03 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Whelen strobe connecter tools Any suggestions on where to find Whelen strobe connecter tools? I have to remove the already installed AMP PCPS3 three pin strobe connecters to wire the wings. I think they are called Mate 'n Lock connecters. But there are a couple of kinds of Mate 'N Locks and the tools are different. Worse yet, Mouser's catalog didn't show these specific connecters(at least not by these numbers). The Radio Shack D-sub pin installation and extraction tools didn't work. I tried. Eric Schlanser ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:10 PM PST US From: "Neal George" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Intercom Repair Bob - I have a SoftComm 4-place intercom that needs a little attention. It has a connector assembly marked "Pilot" and "CoPilot" which appears to Y the mic lines to a single plug. Years of abuse have trashed the connections, so I have no idea which wire goes where. Any chance you'd have a drawing that would help me rewire the offending connector? Neal Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:09 PM PST US From: "Christopher Barber" Subject: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary Just a quick note to announce the first starts of my 13b rotary engine in my Velocity SE wired with Bob's Z-14 diagrams. Thanks for the great info in the book and on this list. It provides a great deal of piece of mind. If you are interested in more details check out my posts or those of my buddy David Staten who is helping me in the build, on www.canardaviation.com or the flyrotary email list. Thanks Bob. All the best, Chris www.LoneStarVelocity.com Houston, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.