Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:11 AM - Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light (BobsV35B@aol.com)
2. 06:27 AM - Re: Amp sensing with hall effect (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:23 AM - Going to OSH (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 10:13 AM - Re: Amp sensing with hall effect (Jekyll)
5. 12:15 PM - Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light ()
6. 01:23 PM - Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V (galaxyone@juno.com)
7. 01:36 PM - Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light (Matt Prather)
8. 07:29 PM - (Fergus Kyle)
9. 07:42 PM - Re: wig wag HID lights (Eric M. Jones)
10. 07:51 PM - Re: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V (Bill Maxwell)
11. 09:15 PM - Re: Re: wig wag HID lights (Matt Prather)
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Subject: | Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
In a message dated 6/4/2007 11:34:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
nuckollsr@cox.net writes:
Bob, Consider acquiring a current limited, adjustable power supply
like this:
http://tinyurl.com/3yrvaq
You can set this puppy up for 14v output and turn the
current limit down to 1A or so and safely probe the pins
of the device to see which ones cause the motor to move and
which way. The lamp will be connected to it's own pins and
this little power supply will simply stall into a perceived
dead short when you find those pins.
One pin will be common to the motor and two other pins
will be extend and retract. I'll bet that the motor stuff
all happens on A, B and C while the lamp pins will be somewhere
else in the constellation.
Alternatively to the power supply, rig a test setup with
a battery, and put some 1-2A light bulb in series with
the leads to the test probes. Shorting the probes will
produce a limited current flow. You can parallel a number
of small lamps to get the 1-2A rating . . . back-up lamps
for cars are hot prospects.
Bob . . .
Sounds great! I'll give it a try.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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Subject: | Re: Amp sensing with hall effect |
At 11:33 PM 6/4/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I started witring up my hall sensor tonight but thought I should get a
>peer review on my electrical monitoring concept before I go further. My
>particulars are:
>RV-7A
>Z-13/8 with fuse blocks
>GRT EIS-4000
>GRT Horizon 1 EFIS (single)
>P-Mag, E-Mag
>
>I wired up a single hall effect sensor with 3 wires going through it:
>M-bus feed from a FW mounted ANL; B-bus feed from the hot side of the
>battery contactor; SD-8 feed from the SD-8 relay to the B-bus. My
>architecture is based on the ability to read total bus amperage on 1
>sensor in both primary and alternate operating modes. Operating in either
>mode will show the total amps: in primary mode the M-bus and B-bus will be
>totaled (of course the M-bus will include the E-bus through the diode); in
>alternate mode, the SD-8 feed will be added to the sensor on its way to
>the B-bus, thense to the E-bus. Battery charging can be determined by
>subtracting total bus amps from the alternator output to determine amps
>available to charge the battery. As I have both the SD-8 and a P-mag, I'm
>less concerned about knowing the exact in/out amperage condition of the
>battery than I am with knowing my actual bus amps when operating on the
>SD-8. I don't desire to add a second sensor or a switching!
> capability.
>
>The GRT system will show bus voltage with ample low voltage warning in all
>operating modes.
>
>Just asking for comments to see if I missed anything before I commit the
>acts of cutting, stripping, crimping, soldering and drilling.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jekyll
Sounds like you're anticipating the need for
knowing what currents are being draw for a variety
of flight configurations and making a determination
on-the-fly as to whether the alternator possesses
sufficient capability to accommodate the battery.
The BEST way to accomplish this is to do it in
advance. There are no flight configurations for
which power requirements can be deduced in advance.
This process is called a load analysis. The archives
are rich in conversation on this topic. Starting
on page 4 of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List/AeroElectric-List_FAQ.pdf
You'll find some filtered discussions on the
topic. You can do a paper analysis with the aid of a
form like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LoadAnalysis.pdf
There's a repository on the website for sample
load analysis conducted by members of this list in
Excel. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/
You can take one of these offerings as a starting
point for doing your own load analysis.
While the installation you propose is technically
correct, it also suggests that you're adding
instrumentation features to deduce what you should
already know, and have A, B, C and D plans for.
Making such real-time, in-flight measurements
gives you more work to do as a systems manager
and steals time and attention better expended
as a pilot.
Bob . . .
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116592#116592
>
>
>--
>6:43 PM
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
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I just got off the phone with Mark Forss at EAA's forums
office and we've schedule some time in the tents for Thursday
afternoon and then again Friday afternoon/evening. The Friday
session will be an open Q&A format that can run as long as
anyone wants.
Hope to meet many of you there!
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Amp sensing with hall effect |
Thanks for the rapid reply. I've done a complete load analysis and update it whenever
I make any changes.
Jekyll
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116681#116681
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Subject: | Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
Grief, $$$, lots of time, don't fly at night or just bragging rights,
I found an easy solution is to take the XV-36-H1 (or similar)
offered by XeVision and install it in the front intake on the cowling
(everyone has one or two). No fancy doors or mechanisms, just two AN
bolts, power and ground. Nothing could be easier and it is out of the
air stream (retracted). There is no substantial airflow lost. I do most
of my flying at night and this arrangement works very well pointing the
light directly where you need it. Concealed or retractable headlights
are just one more thing to go wrong. Anyone who has owned, cougars,
tornados, thunderbirds or Cadillac's can attest to that issue.
When you get good you don't need a landing light :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing
light
I was snooping around the net for a retractable light system and
found the following statement on the XeVision site:
"We also have oval and rectangular designs for small spaces (wing-
tip) and a retractable landing light system (under design)."
It's on the aviation page of their site, xevision.com.
Best Regards,
Steve T
____________________________________________________________________
On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> we might come up with a retractable
> light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or even
> an LED light bulb.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V |
One idea Mark mentions is using a transformer! I was always told that wh
en you put DC, as in 12V aircraft supply, in a transformer the output is
smoke!
All the suggestions were for DC.
Henry
Time: 07:55:03 PM PST US
From: "Mark Cupitt" <mark@metalcrafters.ph>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V
Hi There Folks
I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a 12V aircra
ft
supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would guess. Is there
a
way to do it with resistors. The current requirement is 200-300 milliamp
s.
Appreciate any suggestions and recommendations
Regards
Mark Cupitt
RP-C883
Philippines
<html><P>One idea Mark mentions is using a transformer! I was always tol
d that when you put DC, as in 12V aircraft supply, in a transformer the
output is smoke!<BR>All the suggestions were for DC.<BR>Henry</P>
<P>Time: 07:55:03 PM PST US<BR>From: "Mark Cupitt" <<A class=m1 onc
lick="top.checkNewBrowser('26?To=mark@metalcrafters.ph&count=1
181074106')" href="http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/new/8?folder=Inb
ox&msgNum=0000Pp00:0016PGtD00001QK^&block=1&msgNature=
all&msgStatus=all&count=1181074100&content=central#"><
FONT color=#0066cc>mark@metalcrafters.ph</FONT></A>><BR>Subject: Ae
roElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V<BR><BR><BR>Hi There Fol
ks<BR><BR>I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a
12V aircraft<BR>supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would
guess. Is there a<BR>way to do it with resistors. The current requireme
nt is 200-300 milliamps.<BR><BR>Appreciate any suggestions and recommend
ations<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Mark Cupitt<BR>RP-C883<BR>Philippines<BR></
P>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 7
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Subject: | Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light |
Can't argue against simplicity as an attribute. However, having owned an
airplane with the landing light in the nose, I can attest to their
relatively higher rate of vibration related failure. Wing mounted landing
lights live longer. Vibration may not be a significant issue if the
XeVision lights are more rugged against this kind of abuse as compared to
aircraft sealed beams (surely most lights are more rugged than aircraft
sealed beams).
A couple of other gripes against cowl mounted lights - means there's a
plug or set of wires to be disconnected when removing the cowl. Not a big
deal, but kind of annoying. And a service item. If mounted on the front
cylinder airflow baffle, more effort must be provided so that the baffle
isn't damaged by the vibrating mass of the light and pull from the wires.
The baffles on the airplanes I have been around have definitely suffered
from cracking. More stuff attached to them doesn't help their life.
And, as Bob mentioned, the cowl mounted light will be exposed to more
rain, etc.
Finally, if used as recognition lights, wing mounted locations provide
more visual separation. This improved the effectiveness of wig-wagging.
For recognition lights, I light those mounted in the wingtips best.
As far as needing landing lights, I don't think it's really related to
being good or not.. I am pretty certain I have only average piloting
skills, and I never flew an airplane that had a functioning landing light
until well after I got my private. If you keep the cockpit lighting
turned down it's not too difficult. I found taxiing without any lights to
be the hard part...
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Grief, $$$, lots of time, don't fly at night or just bragging rights,
> I found an easy solution is to take the XV-36-H1 (or similar)
> offered by XeVision and install it in the front intake on the cowling
> (everyone has one or two). No fancy doors or mechanisms, just two AN
> bolts, power and ground. Nothing could be easier and it is out of the
> air stream (retracted). There is no substantial airflow lost. I do most
> of my flying at night and this arrangement works very well pointing the
> light directly where you need it. Concealed or retractable headlights
> are just one more thing to go wrong. Anyone who has owned, cougars,
> tornados, thunderbirds or Cadillac's can attest to that issue.
>
> When you get good you don't need a landing light :)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
> Thomas
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 3:11 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing
> light
>
>
>
> I was snooping around the net for a retractable light system and
> found the following statement on the XeVision site:
>
> "We also have oval and rectangular designs for small spaces (wing-
> tip) and a retractable landing light system (under design)."
>
> It's on the aviation page of their site, xevision.com.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve T
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>> we might come up with a retractable
>> light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or even
>> an LED light bulb.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>
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Subject: | Re: wig wag HID lights |
Yes, no, yes, no.
I say NO you can't wig-wag HID lamps...but here are the particulars--
The Creativair device wig-wags each lamp 20 times per minute. (This is almost
as slow as the message indicator in my Radio Shack telephone. It flashes once
every 10 seconds. Drives me mad...) The important thing is that this is very slow
and may not get the intention it deserves in the sky...
There are technically insoluble problems with wig-wagging arc lamps. The best solution
seems to be to never let them go out, so restarting is not required. This
is called "flash from simmer". If you flash from cold (completely off), the
lifetime of the lamp AND usually the power supply is drastically shortened.
Still...the flash rate with the Creativair device is so slow maybe this is okay.
Measured against the cost of a mid-air, the HID wig-wag would be preferable.
A device which works fine for many applications is a mechanical rotator (Cessnas
and cops) or a wig-wagger (locomotives use them). If I had a single HID lamp
in the nose, I would seriously consider it. For a halogen solution, use a high-low
automotive sealed beam. Some xenon and HID auto lamps use mechanical movements
to "dip" the headlights.
There are now some serious MR-16 LEDs (HUNDREDS of lumens) available on Ebay. I
have a sample for playing around and will report on this later. By the end of
next year the LED will look like the only choice.
They wig-wag all you like.
You can always trust the information given to you by people who are crazy; they
have an access to truth not available through regular channels. -- Sheila Ballantyne
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116793#116793
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Subject: | Re: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V |
Yes, there is no way a transformer will step DC voltage either up or
down. You need to first convert it to AC before you can have any
transformer action. The transformer primary winding will present as a
dead short, or a very small resistance at best, to a DC voltage.
Resistors will do it but the unrequired 7 volts will generate heat. The
current required is not huge, so I would be inclined to use a 3-terminal
regulator, probably the readily available and cheap 7805 - less than $1
, mounted on a suitabe heatsink and with by-pass capacitors across both
input and output. It will still generate heat but nothing that cant be
catered for and you will get much better voltage regulation.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: galaxyone@juno.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 6:20 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V
One idea Mark mentions is using a transformer! I was always told that
when you put DC, as in 12V aircraft supply, in a transformer the output
is smoke!
All the suggestions were for DC.
Henry
Time: 07:55:03 PM PST US
From: "Mark Cupitt" <mark@metalcrafters.ph>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V
Hi There Folks
I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a 12V
aircraft
supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would guess. Is
there a
way to do it with resistors. The current requirement is 200-300
milliamps.
Appreciate any suggestions and recommendations
Regards
Mark Cupitt
RP-C883
Philippines
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: wig wag HID lights |
Hey Eric,
I have wondered about "flash from simmer" on HID's. Encouraging to hear
that it might be practical.
I also think I might consider one light system for recognition and a
separate system for nighttime ground illumination. LED/Halogen for
recognition - maybe wide angle for conspicuity and a spot HID for me to
see out. Run the wide angle lamps in steady mode while taxiing to be able
to see around corners better.
Regards,
Matt-
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> Yes, no, yes, no.
>
> I say NO you can't wig-wag HID lamps...but here are the particulars--
>
> The Creativair device wig-wags each lamp 20 times per minute. (This is
> almost as slow as the message indicator in my Radio Shack telephone. It
> flashes once every 10 seconds. Drives me mad...) The important thing is
> that this is very slow and may not get the intention it deserves in the
> sky...
>
> There are technically insoluble problems with wig-wagging arc lamps. The
> best solution seems to be to never let them go out, so restarting is not
> required. This is called "flash from simmer". If you flash from cold
> (completely off), the lifetime of the lamp AND usually the power supply is
> drastically shortened.
>
> Still...the flash rate with the Creativair device is so slow maybe this is
> okay. Measured against the cost of a mid-air, the HID wig-wag would be
> preferable.
>
> A device which works fine for many applications is a mechanical rotator
> (Cessnas and cops) or a wig-wagger (locomotives use them). If I had a
> single HID lamp in the nose, I would seriously consider it. For a halogen
> solution, use a high-low automotive sealed beam. Some xenon and HID auto
> lamps use mechanical movements to "dip" the headlights.
>
> There are now some serious MR-16 LEDs (HUNDREDS of lumens) available on
> Ebay. I have a sample for playing around and will report on this later. By
> the end of next year the LED will look like the only choice.
>
> They wig-wag all you like.
>
> You can always trust the information given to you by people who are crazy;
> they have an access to truth not available through regular channels. --
> Sheila Ballantyne
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones@charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116793#116793
>
>
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