---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/05/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:11 AM - Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light (BobsV35B@aol.com) 2. 06:27 AM - Re: Amp sensing with hall effect (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 07:23 AM - Going to OSH (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 10:13 AM - Re: Amp sensing with hall effect (Jekyll) 5. 12:15 PM - Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light () 6. 01:23 PM - Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V (galaxyone@juno.com) 7. 01:36 PM - Re: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light (Matt Prather) 8. 07:29 PM - (Fergus Kyle) 9. 07:42 PM - Re: wig wag HID lights (Eric M. Jones) 10. 07:51 PM - Re: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V (Bill Maxwell) 11. 09:15 PM - Re: Re: wig wag HID lights (Matt Prather) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:34 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light In a message dated 6/4/2007 11:34:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time, nuckollsr@cox.net writes: Bob, Consider acquiring a current limited, adjustable power supply like this: http://tinyurl.com/3yrvaq You can set this puppy up for 14v output and turn the current limit down to 1A or so and safely probe the pins of the device to see which ones cause the motor to move and which way. The lamp will be connected to it's own pins and this little power supply will simply stall into a perceived dead short when you find those pins. One pin will be common to the motor and two other pins will be extend and retract. I'll bet that the motor stuff all happens on A, B and C while the lamp pins will be somewhere else in the constellation. Alternatively to the power supply, rig a test setup with a battery, and put some 1-2A light bulb in series with the leads to the test probes. Shorting the probes will produce a limited current flow. You can parallel a number of small lamps to get the 1-2A rating . . . back-up lamps for cars are hot prospects. Bob . . . Sounds great! I'll give it a try. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:35 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Amp sensing with hall effect At 11:33 PM 6/4/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >I started witring up my hall sensor tonight but thought I should get a >peer review on my electrical monitoring concept before I go further. My >particulars are: >RV-7A >Z-13/8 with fuse blocks >GRT EIS-4000 >GRT Horizon 1 EFIS (single) >P-Mag, E-Mag > >I wired up a single hall effect sensor with 3 wires going through it: >M-bus feed from a FW mounted ANL; B-bus feed from the hot side of the >battery contactor; SD-8 feed from the SD-8 relay to the B-bus. My >architecture is based on the ability to read total bus amperage on 1 >sensor in both primary and alternate operating modes. Operating in either >mode will show the total amps: in primary mode the M-bus and B-bus will be >totaled (of course the M-bus will include the E-bus through the diode); in >alternate mode, the SD-8 feed will be added to the sensor on its way to >the B-bus, thense to the E-bus. Battery charging can be determined by >subtracting total bus amps from the alternator output to determine amps >available to charge the battery. As I have both the SD-8 and a P-mag, I'm >less concerned about knowing the exact in/out amperage condition of the >battery than I am with knowing my actual bus amps when operating on the >SD-8. I don't desire to add a second sensor or a switching! > capability. > >The GRT system will show bus voltage with ample low voltage warning in all >operating modes. > >Just asking for comments to see if I missed anything before I commit the >acts of cutting, stripping, crimping, soldering and drilling. > >Thanks, > >Jekyll Sounds like you're anticipating the need for knowing what currents are being draw for a variety of flight configurations and making a determination on-the-fly as to whether the alternator possesses sufficient capability to accommodate the battery. The BEST way to accomplish this is to do it in advance. There are no flight configurations for which power requirements can be deduced in advance. This process is called a load analysis. The archives are rich in conversation on this topic. Starting on page 4 of: http://www.aeroelectric.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List/AeroElectric-List_FAQ.pdf You'll find some filtered discussions on the topic. You can do a paper analysis with the aid of a form like http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LoadAnalysis.pdf There's a repository on the website for sample load analysis conducted by members of this list in Excel. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/ You can take one of these offerings as a starting point for doing your own load analysis. While the installation you propose is technically correct, it also suggests that you're adding instrumentation features to deduce what you should already know, and have A, B, C and D plans for. Making such real-time, in-flight measurements gives you more work to do as a systems manager and steals time and attention better expended as a pilot. Bob . . . >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116592#116592 > > >-- >6:43 PM > > >incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Going to OSH I just got off the phone with Mark Forss at EAA's forums office and we've schedule some time in the tents for Thursday afternoon and then again Friday afternoon/evening. The Friday session will be an open Q&A format that can run as long as anyone wants. Hope to meet many of you there! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:51 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Amp sensing with hall effect From: "Jekyll" Thanks for the rapid reply. I've done a complete load analysis and update it whenever I make any changes. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116681#116681 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light From: Grief, $$$, lots of time, don't fly at night or just bragging rights, I found an easy solution is to take the XV-36-H1 (or similar) offered by XeVision and install it in the front intake on the cowling (everyone has one or two). No fancy doors or mechanisms, just two AN bolts, power and ground. Nothing could be easier and it is out of the air stream (retracted). There is no substantial airflow lost. I do most of my flying at night and this arrangement works very well pointing the light directly where you need it. Concealed or retractable headlights are just one more thing to go wrong. Anyone who has owned, cougars, tornados, thunderbirds or Cadillac's can attest to that issue. When you get good you don't need a landing light :) -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 3:11 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light I was snooping around the net for a retractable light system and found the following statement on the XeVision site: "We also have oval and rectangular designs for small spaces (wing- tip) and a retractable landing light system (under design)." It's on the aviation page of their site, xevision.com. Best Regards, Steve T ____________________________________________________________________ On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > we might come up with a retractable > light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or even > an LED light bulb. > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:13 PM PST US From: "galaxyone@juno.com" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V One idea Mark mentions is using a transformer! I was always told that wh en you put DC, as in 12V aircraft supply, in a transformer the output is smoke! All the suggestions were for DC. Henry Time: 07:55:03 PM PST US From: "Mark Cupitt" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V Hi There Folks I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a 12V aircra ft supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would guess. Is there a way to do it with resistors. The current requirement is 200-300 milliamp s. Appreciate any suggestions and recommendations Regards Mark Cupitt RP-C883 Philippines

One idea Mark mentions is using a transformer! I was always tol d that when you put DC, as in 12V aircraft supply, in a transformer the output is smoke!
All the suggestions were for DC.
Henry

Time: 07:55:03 PM PST US
From: "Mark Cupitt" << FONT color=#0066cc>mark@metalcrafters.ph>
Subject: Ae roElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V


Hi There Fol ks

I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a 12V aircraft
supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would guess. Is there a
way to do it with resistors. The current requireme nt is 200-300 milliamps.

Appreciate any suggestions and recommend ations

Regards

Mark Cupitt
RP-C883
Philippines




________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:42 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing light From: "Matt Prather" Can't argue against simplicity as an attribute. However, having owned an airplane with the landing light in the nose, I can attest to their relatively higher rate of vibration related failure. Wing mounted landing lights live longer. Vibration may not be a significant issue if the XeVision lights are more rugged against this kind of abuse as compared to aircraft sealed beams (surely most lights are more rugged than aircraft sealed beams). A couple of other gripes against cowl mounted lights - means there's a plug or set of wires to be disconnected when removing the cowl. Not a big deal, but kind of annoying. And a service item. If mounted on the front cylinder airflow baffle, more effort must be provided so that the baffle isn't damaged by the vibrating mass of the light and pull from the wires. The baffles on the airplanes I have been around have definitely suffered from cracking. More stuff attached to them doesn't help their life. And, as Bob mentioned, the cowl mounted light will be exposed to more rain, etc. Finally, if used as recognition lights, wing mounted locations provide more visual separation. This improved the effectiveness of wig-wagging. For recognition lights, I light those mounted in the wingtips best. As far as needing landing lights, I don't think it's really related to being good or not.. I am pretty certain I have only average piloting skills, and I never flew an airplane that had a functioning landing light until well after I got my private. If you keep the cockpit lighting turned down it's not too difficult. I found taxiing without any lights to be the hard part... Regards, Matt- > > Grief, $$$, lots of time, don't fly at night or just bragging rights, > I found an easy solution is to take the XV-36-H1 (or similar) > offered by XeVision and install it in the front intake on the cowling > (everyone has one or two). No fancy doors or mechanisms, just two AN > bolts, power and ground. Nothing could be easier and it is out of the > air stream (retracted). There is no substantial airflow lost. I do most > of my flying at night and this arrangement works very well pointing the > light directly where you need it. Concealed or retractable headlights > are just one more thing to go wrong. Anyone who has owned, cougars, > tornados, thunderbirds or Cadillac's can attest to that issue. > > When you get good you don't need a landing light :) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Thomas > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 3:11 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grimes P/N 5530 retractable landing > light > > > > I was snooping around the net for a retractable light system and > found the following statement on the XeVision site: > > "We also have oval and rectangular designs for small spaces (wing- > tip) and a retractable landing light system (under design)." > > It's on the aviation page of their site, xevision.com. > > Best Regards, > > Steve T > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > On Jun 4, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> we might come up with a retractable >> light assembly designed around a modern, automotive halogen or even >> an LED light bulb. >> >> Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:13 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:14 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: wig wag HID lights From: "Eric M. Jones" Yes, no, yes, no. I say NO you can't wig-wag HID lamps...but here are the particulars-- The Creativair device wig-wags each lamp 20 times per minute. (This is almost as slow as the message indicator in my Radio Shack telephone. It flashes once every 10 seconds. Drives me mad...) The important thing is that this is very slow and may not get the intention it deserves in the sky... There are technically insoluble problems with wig-wagging arc lamps. The best solution seems to be to never let them go out, so restarting is not required. This is called "flash from simmer". If you flash from cold (completely off), the lifetime of the lamp AND usually the power supply is drastically shortened. Still...the flash rate with the Creativair device is so slow maybe this is okay. Measured against the cost of a mid-air, the HID wig-wag would be preferable. A device which works fine for many applications is a mechanical rotator (Cessnas and cops) or a wig-wagger (locomotives use them). If I had a single HID lamp in the nose, I would seriously consider it. For a halogen solution, use a high-low automotive sealed beam. Some xenon and HID auto lamps use mechanical movements to "dip" the headlights. There are now some serious MR-16 LEDs (HUNDREDS of lumens) available on Ebay. I have a sample for playing around and will report on this later. By the end of next year the LED will look like the only choice. They wig-wag all you like. You can always trust the information given to you by people who are crazy; they have an access to truth not available through regular channels. -- Sheila Ballantyne -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116793#116793 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:20 PM PST US From: "Bill Maxwell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V Yes, there is no way a transformer will step DC voltage either up or down. You need to first convert it to AC before you can have any transformer action. The transformer primary winding will present as a dead short, or a very small resistance at best, to a DC voltage. Resistors will do it but the unrequired 7 volts will generate heat. The current required is not huge, so I would be inclined to use a 3-terminal regulator, probably the readily available and cheap 7805 - less than $1 , mounted on a suitabe heatsink and with by-pass capacitors across both input and output. It will still generate heat but nothing that cant be catered for and you will get much better voltage regulation. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: galaxyone@juno.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 6:20 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V One idea Mark mentions is using a transformer! I was always told that when you put DC, as in 12V aircraft supply, in a transformer the output is smoke! All the suggestions were for DC. Henry Time: 07:55:03 PM PST US From: "Mark Cupitt" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dropping Voltage to 5V from 12V Hi There Folks I need to supply a small device in the cockpit with 5V from a 12V aircraft supply. One way to do this is with a transformer I would guess. Is there a way to do it with resistors. The current requirement is 200-300 milliamps. Appreciate any suggestions and recommendations Regards Mark Cupitt RP-C883 Philippines ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: wig wag HID lights From: "Matt Prather" Hey Eric, I have wondered about "flash from simmer" on HID's. Encouraging to hear that it might be practical. I also think I might consider one light system for recognition and a separate system for nighttime ground illumination. LED/Halogen for recognition - maybe wide angle for conspicuity and a spot HID for me to see out. Run the wide angle lamps in steady mode while taxiing to be able to see around corners better. Regards, Matt- > > > Yes, no, yes, no. > > I say NO you can't wig-wag HID lamps...but here are the particulars-- > > The Creativair device wig-wags each lamp 20 times per minute. (This is > almost as slow as the message indicator in my Radio Shack telephone. It > flashes once every 10 seconds. Drives me mad...) The important thing is > that this is very slow and may not get the intention it deserves in the > sky... > > There are technically insoluble problems with wig-wagging arc lamps. The > best solution seems to be to never let them go out, so restarting is not > required. This is called "flash from simmer". If you flash from cold > (completely off), the lifetime of the lamp AND usually the power supply is > drastically shortened. > > Still...the flash rate with the Creativair device is so slow maybe this is > okay. Measured against the cost of a mid-air, the HID wig-wag would be > preferable. > > A device which works fine for many applications is a mechanical rotator > (Cessnas and cops) or a wig-wagger (locomotives use them). If I had a > single HID lamp in the nose, I would seriously consider it. For a halogen > solution, use a high-low automotive sealed beam. Some xenon and HID auto > lamps use mechanical movements to "dip" the headlights. > > There are now some serious MR-16 LEDs (HUNDREDS of lumens) available on > Ebay. I have a sample for playing around and will report on this later. By > the end of next year the LED will look like the only choice. > > They wig-wag all you like. > > You can always trust the information given to you by people who are crazy; > they have an access to truth not available through regular channels. -- > Sheila Ballantyne > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones@charter.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116793#116793 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.