---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/06/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: wig wag HID lights (rtitsworth) 2. 08:38 AM - Voltage Conversion (Eric M. Jones) 3. 11:23 AM - Pitot tube appreciations (William Crook) 4. 01:16 PM - Re: First Start of my rotary () 5. 02:00 PM - Re: First Start of my rotary (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 6. 03:46 PM - Re: First Start of my rotary (Bob White) 7. 06:42 PM - Was First Start of my rotary (Ed Anderson) 8. 08:22 PM - Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers (Ralph Hoover) 9. 09:02 PM - Runaway trim (Dave Leikam) 10. 09:22 PM - Re: Runaway trim (Kenneth Melvin) 11. 09:54 PM - Re: Runaway trim (B Tomm) 12. 10:22 PM - Re: Runaway trim (William Gill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:53 AM PST US From: "rtitsworth" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: wig wag HID lights > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > >.I might consider one light system for recognition and a >.separate system for nighttime ground illumination. LED/Halogen for > recognition - maybe wide angle for conspicuity and a spot HID for me to > see out. Run the wide angle lamps in steady mode while taxiing to be able > to see around corners better. > FYI - Here's a photo of a new Cirrus SR22 G3 which uses small High Power LED's in the wig tips to do just that (recognition and taxi). The main Landing light is still in the cowl. The WigWags did not work yet on this plane (33 hrs), but the factory pilot said they were working on it (EMI certification ???) The LED's were reported to be a noticeable improvement during taxiing (unverified). I've recently purchased some 1500ma K2 Luxon Leds to experiment with. Results in a week or two. Data sheet link for any techies: http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS51.pdf Rick ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:55 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltage Conversion From: "Eric M. Jones" I see this subject going around occassionally, usually 12 to 5, 12 to 28, or 28 to 12. I would like to add the critically important parts of the question.... 1) Most important--What is the current? This is important because the conversion technique depends on the current required. If you need milliamps, just add on the requisite batteries and change them at the annual. If you need amps continuously, use a little power supply from Astrodyne (my favorite online power supply store). 2) What is the duty cycle? If you need 100 amps for several seconds, that takes a big battery. If you need 100 amps for milliseconds, you need a capacitor. 3) Weight? Some techniques are lighter than others. Lighter usually means more expensive and sometimes less reliable. "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H. L. Mencken -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116878#116878 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:19 AM PST US From: William Crook Subject: AeroElectric-List: Pitot tube appreciations Bob, A big THANK YOU for helping me out with soldering my pitot tube connection. I received it in the mail yesterday and will install it this weekend. Again, thanks for your help during a busy time for you. Hope to see you at OSH. Thanks, Will Crook Glastar Waynesville NC DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:20 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary From: Congratulations Chris, A freshly minted non-smoking wiring system and a smooth running rotary are proud milestones. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:40 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary Just a quick note to announce the first starts of my 13b rotary engine in my Velocity SE wired with Bob's Z-14 diagrams. Thanks for the great info in the book and on this list. It provides a great deal of piece of mind. If you are interested in more details check out my posts or those of my buddy David Staten who is helping me in the build, on www.canardaviation.com or the flyrotary email list. Thanks Bob. All the best, Chris www.LoneStarVelocity.com Houston, Texas ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:51 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Indeed, although the web page is a little out of date as Experimental Lyclones are now way cheaper than the 34K listed...More like 21 to 24k for a brand new fuel injected IO360. The rotary is a fascinating conversion however (not good for a tractor airplane due to the difficulty in getting long ducts to deal with the cooling drag, but much more amenable to a pusher design I think. Good job Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of longg@pjm.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 1:15 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary Congratulations Chris, A freshly minted non-smoking wiring system and a smooth running rotary are proud milestones. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:40 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary Just a quick note to announce the first starts of my 13b rotary engine in my Velocity SE wired with Bob's Z-14 diagrams. Thanks for the great info in the book and on this list. It provides a great deal of piece of mind. If you are interested in more details check out my posts or those of my buddy David Staten who is helping me in the build, on www.canardaviation.com or the flyrotary email list. Thanks Bob. All the best, Chris www.LoneStarVelocity.com Houston, Texas href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:19 PM PST US From: Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary Hi Frank, Better not tell all those guys flying RV's with rotary engines. Bob W. On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 20:58:14 -0000 "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > Indeed, although the web page is a little out of date as Experimental > Lyclones are now way cheaper than the 34K listed...More like 21 to 24k > for a brand new fuel injected IO360. > > The rotary is a fascinating conversion however (not good for a tractor > airplane due to the difficulty in getting long ducts to deal with the > cooling drag, but much more amenable to a pusher design I think. > > Good job > > Frank > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > longg@pjm.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 1:15 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary > > > Congratulations Chris, > A freshly minted non-smoking wiring system and a smooth running > rotary are proud milestones. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Barber > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:40 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary > > > Just a quick note to announce the first starts of my 13b rotary > engine in my Velocity SE wired with Bob's Z-14 diagrams. Thanks for the > great info in the book and on this list. It provides a great deal of > piece of mind. If you are interested in more details check out my posts > or those of my buddy David Staten who is helping me in the build, on > www.canardaviation.com or the flyrotary email list. Thanks Bob. > > All the best, > > Chris > www.LoneStarVelocity.com > Houston, Texas > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m > atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > > > > > > -- N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:14 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Was First Start of my rotary Ah, Bob, I was going to let Frank continue with his incorrect impressions about rotary engines. I guess I shouldn't tell him a rotary powered RV-4 won its class in the Sun & Fun 100 2003 beating all in the class with an official average speed of 217.5 mph! Not bad for a fixed-pitch wood prop, a car muffler hanging underneath (need I say a car engine under the cowl{:>)) and a non too clean airframe. Oh, yes, no cooling problems. I suspect that is the real reason Sun & Fun cancel the air races{:>). Also, if you don't tell my 400 hour rotary powered RV-6A it has a cooling problem, maybe it won't know. Just for the record, We have rotaries flying in RV-3, RV-4,RV-6,Rv-6A, Rv-7, Rv-8s and a couple currently in the works rotary powered RV-10 projects ( using the 3 rotor engine). Rotary's in other tractor installations as well as pusher installations are coming on board. We have a couple of "standard" cooling configurations that have stood the test of time for the rotary powered tractor installations and the Canard folks are also developing successful cooling configurations for the pushers. Ooops, this is the Aeroelectric -list, sorry, Bob Ed. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob White" Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 6:45 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary > > Hi Frank, > > Better not tell all those guys flying RV's with rotary engines. > > Bob W. > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 20:58:14 -0000 > "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > >> Indeed, although the web page is a little out of date as Experimental >> Lyclones are now way cheaper than the 34K listed...More like 21 to 24k >> for a brand new fuel injected IO360. >> >> The rotary is a fascinating conversion however (not good for a tractor >> airplane due to the difficulty in getting long ducts to deal with the >> cooling drag, but much more amenable to a pusher design I think. >> >> Good job >> >> Frank >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> longg@pjm.com >> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 1:15 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary >> >> >> Congratulations Chris, >> A freshly minted non-smoking wiring system and a smooth running >> rotary are proud milestones. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Christopher Barber >> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:40 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: First Start of my rotary >> >> >> Just a quick note to announce the first starts of my 13b rotary >> engine in my Velocity SE wired with Bob's Z-14 diagrams. Thanks for the >> great info in the book and on this list. It provides a great deal of >> piece of mind. If you are interested in more details check out my posts >> or those of my buddy David Staten who is helping me in the build, on >> www.canardaviation.com or the flyrotary email list. Thanks Bob. >> >> All the best, >> >> Chris >> www.LoneStarVelocity.com >> Houston, Texas >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. m >> atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com > 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding > Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:27 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: AeroElectric-List: Isolated DC-DC Electronics design pointers I have attached a schematic and photo's of the 9VDC ANR supply I have built for my RV7A (Headsets Inc ANR conversion) I have tested the supply for basic DC voltage. I added a load of about 60ma. The ripple looked OK (I do not remember the exact numbers) I will measure again when it is wired into the plane and running the Headphones. The Headsets Inc. modules draw about 15ma in a quiet shop rising to about 20ma if I yell. (Don't know what the neighbors thought!) I'll report the final results when everything is powered up and operating. The focus now is on getting the panel wiring finished so the final skin can go on. Getting close!! -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:03 PM PST US From: "Dave Leikam" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim A few days ago a Citation jet carrying a crew of two and 4 medical personnel including organ transplant doctors, went down in Lake Michigan just off shore from Milwaukee, WI shortly after takeoff. The pilot declared an emergency due to severe control problems and was cleared to return to MKE. No survivors. First my condolences to the families and friends. Next, preliminary reports are that the crash may have been due to "Runaway trim." Our RV-10s have electric trim. Should we or has anyone installed a trim power disconnect of some sort? I realize that the forces to overcome full trim on the 10 are not as great as a Citation, but would this be prudent? After Attending Bob Nuckolls seminar and hearing his reasons for not installing circuit breakers which I generally agree with, would this be a reason for a pullable breaker on this circuit? What do you guys and gals think? Mr. Nuckolls, how about your thoughts? Dave Leikam 40496 RV-10 QB Wings ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:56 PM PST US From: "Kenneth Melvin" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim I have experienced a runaway trim in an RV4 (full nose down). I had installed a pull-type circuit breaker, but there was no time to intervene. The situation became more manageable when airspeed was reduced. Not a happy event, but caused by a rare and catastrophic short circuit when the stick-grip (with trim switch) broke off while inverted. Kenneth Melvin, N669TJ. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:45 PM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim Dave, You can have a pullable breaker for the trim, but I think that it will be at the stop before the pilot realizes what's happened. The pullable breaker will only shut down the motor after the trim is at the extreme position. Don't quote me but I've read on these lists that landings have been safely made in RV's with full up and down elevator trim, albeit with much higher stick forces, but manageable. Anyone may correct me if I'm wrong. I plan to test it at altitude during the test phase. I'm not flying yet so take this as opinion only. I have not heard of anyone experiencing runaway trim in an RV10 yet. Further, those that fly formation really like (and may require) electric trim on the stick. Others may comment here. Bevan RV7A finishing _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim A few days ago a Citation jet carrying a crew of two and 4 medical personnel including organ transplant doctors, went down in Lake Michigan just off shore from Milwaukee, WI shortly after takeoff. The pilot declared an emergency due to severe control problems and was cleared to return to MKE. No survivors. First my condolences to the families and friends. Next, preliminary reports are that the crash may have been due to "Runaway trim." Our RV-10s have electric trim. Should we or has anyone installed a trim power disconnect of some sort? I realize that the forces to overcome full trim on the 10 are not as great as a Citation, but would this be prudent? After Attending Bob Nuckolls seminar and hearing his reasons for not installing circuit breakers which I generally agree with, would this be a reason for a pullable breaker on this circuit? What do you guys and gals think? Mr. Nuckolls, how about your thoughts? Dave Leikam 40496 RV-10 QB Wings ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:25 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim The following link provides details of another Citation that experienced runaway trim. In this case, pulling the trim circuit breaker would not have helped. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 030724X01192 &ntsbno=SEA03FA147&akey=1 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 11:53 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim Dave, You can have a pullable breaker for the trim, but I think that it will be at the stop before the pilot realizes what's happened. The pullable breaker will only shut down the motor after the trim is at the extreme position. Don't quote me but I've read on these lists that landings have been safely made in RV's with full up and down elevator trim, albeit with much higher stick forces, but manageable. Anyone may correct me if I'm wrong. I plan to test it at altitude during the test phase. I'm not flying yet so take this as opinion only. I have not heard of anyone experiencing runaway trim in an RV10 yet. Further, those that fly formation really like (and may require) electric trim on the stick. Others may comment here. Bevan RV7A finishing _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Runaway trim A few days ago a Citation jet carrying a crew of two and 4 medical personnel including organ transplant doctors, went down in Lake Michigan just off shore from Milwaukee, WI shortly after takeoff. The pilot declared an emergency due to severe control problems and was cleared to return to MKE. No survivors. First my condolences to the families and friends. Next, preliminary reports are that the crash may have been due to "Runaway trim." Our RV-10s have electric trim. Should we or has anyone installed a trim power disconnect of some sort? I realize that the forces to overcome full trim on the 10 are not as great as a Citation, but would this be prudent? After Attending Bob Nuckolls seminar and hearing his reasons for not installing circuit breakers which I generally agree with, would this be a reason for a pullable breaker on this circuit? What do you guys and gals think? Mr. Nuckolls, how about your thoughts? Dave Leikam 40496 RV-10 QB Wings href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.