Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:15 AM - Re: Runaway trim (Eric M. Jones)
2. 09:33 AM - Runaway trim (James H Nelson)
3. 09:55 AM - Re: SL-30 discontinued.....NOT (Mike)
4. 10:28 AM - It's an airplane question for the RC type. (Mike)
5. 11:08 AM - Re: It's an airplane question for the RC type. ()
6. 11:09 AM - Re: Runaway trim (Kevin Horton)
7. 11:30 AM - Need a wiring diagram (Dale Fultz)
8. 12:04 PM - Re: Need a wiring diagram (William Gill)
9. 03:52 PM - George is still at it . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 06:45 PM - Re: George is still at it . . . (Peter Harris)
11. 07:06 PM - How hard is it to wire a panel? (MLWynn@aol.com)
12. 07:16 PM - glide slope antenna (Chris Hukill)
13. 07:30 PM - Re: How hard is it to wire a panel? (B Tomm)
14. 08:16 PM - Re: How hard is it to wire a panel? (Richard E. Tasker)
15. 08:29 PM - Re: glide slope antenna (Bruce Gray)
16. 08:43 PM - Re: How hard is it to wire a panel? (William Gill)
17. 09:04 PM - Re: How hard is it to wire a panel? (Michel Creek)
18. 10:02 PM - Re: How hard is it to wire a panel? (Michael T. Ice)
19. 10:37 PM - Re: glide slope antenna (Bruce Gray)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway trim |
A couple years ago I designed a domino-size circuit that forced the trim motor
to neutralize the trim flap upon loss of power. This loss of power could have
been caused either by short circuit, a blown fuse or the pilot pulling a breaker
in a runaway-trim event. It is easy (maybe easier) to design a trim box circuit
that reverts the trim to the "where it was some short time before" position.
This seems better.
It does not, however, solve a possible failure inside the MAC/RAC trim box, or
linkages, or the control surface, or the tiny control circuit itself.
I believe there exists a simple solution for those who are really worried about
a stuck trim airfoil and would be satisfied with a disconnected trim airfoil--explosive
bolts.
A less exciting alternative would be to arrange a cotter spring pin so that it
can be extracted remotely via fishing line or actuating cable from the clevis
pin that attaches the trim flap arm to the mechanism.
I agree that keeping it simple is the best approach. Backups for backups leads
to a system that has unpredictable failure modes. Making sure the airplane still
flies with a jammed trim is good design. Well-designed aircraft should fly
with a failure of any single control or trim surface. Otherwise wear a parachute.
"...Beans for supper tonight, six o'clock.
Navy beans cooked in Oklahoma ham...
Got to eat 'em with a spoon, raw onions
and cornbread; nothing else...."
--Will Rogers
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117465#117465
Message 2
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Hi Eric,
You can also just put in physical limits to the trim travel. That
would give you max min. travel that could be controlled if the system
went to an extreme.
Jim Nelson
Message 3
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| Subject: | SL-30 discontinued.....NOT |
Dean,
The SL-70 has been long discontinued. A final note to you is that the
last medical that you pass will have dust on it before the final ILS
system is decommissioned. So I think the Nav portion of you Nav/Com
will get use well into the future. Besides, other then approaches who
still continues to use VOR for enroute navigation today other then
backup?
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DEAN
PSIROPOULOS
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 11:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SL-30 discontinued.....NOT
Sorry about the false alarm folks, I meant to say that Garmin has
discontinued the SL-70 transponder, NOT the SL-30 Nav/Com. The SL-30 is
a
real winner and Garmin knows that so they're going to keep it around for
a
while (at least until all the VORs get decommissioned then it'll only be
good for com).
Dean
--
3:15 PM
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| Subject: | It's an airplane question for the RC type. |
I was wondering if anyone has any good ideas to solve a Radio Control
receiver problem in the hobby market that has just recently come about.
For years in the Radio Control world (RC) the aircraft have been
controlled with and analog radio receiver on the 72mhz band. Some new
equipment to recently hit the market is a radio system that uses the
2.4Ghz band with digital processing. I won't get into to too many of
the details unless someone wants me to. The new systems were originally
tested with gas or liquid fueled aircraft only which provided a separate
source of power solely for the receivers. The latest versions of
aircraft that are coming into the marked place are electric (battery)
powered airplanes. For the last year as these new systems were coming
into the market the first electric airplanes that use this new system
were small park flyers that typically used 3 or 4 small servos that
pulled aprox. 1 amp or less of power from the power bus of the radio
receiver.
The radio system on electric aircraft typically use a motor (brushless)
with a speed control, LiPo battery, servos, and a motor speed control
with power a regulator for the receiver power. The typical output of
the average speed control to the receiver has been regulated to 4.8
volts with the ability to support about 2 amps.
In the past with the analog systems, as the servos pulled the voltage
down during use, the holding power of the servo would go down but the
receiver would continue to function. But with the introduction of the
new digital receivers this no longer works. What has been happening is
when the voltage is pulled below aprox. 3.6 volts the processor in the
receiver shuts down. The restart time for the processor to re-link is
about 2 seconds. In most cases this fatal to the aircraft being flown.
The obvious fix would be to provided the receiver with its own power
source but due to weight and power consideration this is not possible or
desirable.
My question, is their any way to provided a method of stabilizing (by
short term storage) the voltage during the transient voltage spikes that
would be easy to build and keep in a very small package and would not be
reliant on the battery voltage going into the speed control?
Mike Larkin
--
3:15 PM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: It's an airplane question for the RC type. |
Hello Mike
We made our own BEC for a 16 cell beast a while back. Not very difficult
and incorporated a nice heat sink. For the most part I think that you can
run servos on 6V, although they will draw a little more power. Would this
extra voltage get you over the hump? My gut feeling is you could probably
overdrive both the servos and receiver by a bit more.
Chances are your BEC is too marginal, and can't handle the amps. I havn't
been following too close for some years, but there are BECs sold seperate,
could try one of those.
For the scope of what you are trying to do, you could probably wire your
receiver direct to a portion of your batteries, the draw will slight
discharge those cells, but probably moot. You could put a low head space
regulator to control voltage off the battery pack, in other woerds make a
receiver specific BEC (~6+ volts). You could put a seperate mini battery
for receiver. If it is a parkflier, and cheap and easy is the key, you
could try dropping voltage to your servos, it will drop amp draw, as well
as a bit of servo speed and torque. Your servos also may be throwing some
noise to the receiver that it does not like, also the BEC/ESC combo may be
making some noise, or the motor itself. Best first course is contact the
receiver Mfg. And ask them their opinion on what best to do.
Did you already try antenna repositioning, wrapping the receiver, twisting
servo and receiver leads, wrapping the ESC, does it do it with motor off?,
Can you add another cell to your battery pack?
Ron P.
" My question, is their any way to provided a method of stabilizing (by
> short term storage) the voltage during the transient voltage spikes that
> would be easy to build and keep in a very small package and would not be
> reliant on the battery voltage going into the speed control?"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway trim |
On 9 Jun 2007, at 12:29, James H Nelson wrote:
> <rv9jim@juno.com>
>
> Hi Eric,
> You can also just put in physical limits to the trim
> travel. That
> would give you max min. travel that could be controlled if the system
> went to an extreme.
There is certainly no point to having more trim travel than is needed
for the extreme cases in the normal flight envelope. The nose down
trim extreme case is VNE at aft CG. The nose up trim extreme case is
approach speed at forward CG. If the trim travel is greater than is
needed for these two extreme cases, it just makes the runaway
emergency even more serious, without providing any benefit during
normal operations.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 7
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| Subject: | Need a wiring diagram |
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for a Pointer 3000-11 Elt for the remote
switch. I bought a used one it came wired however there is two small wires
on at each end of the harness that were cut I need to find out if they need
connected together or connected to power and ground... Thanks Dale
Message 8
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| Subject: | Need a wiring diagram |
Dale,
Try this link: http://www.pointeravionics.com/manual.php
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Fultz
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 1:29 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need a wiring diagram
<dfultz7@earthlink.net>
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for a Pointer 3000-11 Elt for the
remote
switch. I bought a used one it came wired however there is two small
wires
on at each end of the harness that were cut I need to find out if they
need
connected together or connected to power and ground... Thanks Dale
Message 9
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| Subject: | George is still at it . . . |
I got a phone call from a worried builder who read one of
George's posts last March to the Van's Air Force Forum. It's
a call I'm getting tired of having to address in detail every
time. I've posted a permanent set of documents
to address what has become a tiresome nuisance. If folks who are
members of other forums and lists would cross-post these links,
I would sincerely appreciate it. I'm not going to enter into
any further discussions about George's convoluted offerings
but refer folks to these documents:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/The_Truth_about_Crowbar_OV_Protection.pdf
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/gmcjetpilot.html
Thanks!
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | George is still at it . . . |
Bob,
I don't know how you have the patience to suffer that kind of uninformed
rhetoric when it is aimed at your totally generous and valuable work.
I have a couple more also uninformed questions re the operation of the crow
bar ie when it trips as in Z-21A and Z-25 are we not interrupting the B lead
and likely to cause load dumping.? If the PM alternator/regulator is runaway
and the crowbar tripped would we expect that energy to cook what is left of
the regulator?
Thanks
Peter (slow learner)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, 10 June 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: George is still at it . . .
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
I got a phone call from a worried builder who read one of
George's posts last March to the Van's Air Force Forum. It's
a call I'm getting tired of having to address in detail every
time. I've posted a permanent set of documents
to address what has become a tiresome nuisance. If folks who are
members of other forums and lists would cross-post these links,
I would sincerely appreciate it. I'm not going to enter into
any further discussions about George's convoluted offerings
but refer folks to these documents:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/The_Truth_about_Crowbar_OV_Protection.pdf
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/gmcjetpilot.html
Thanks!
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | How hard is it to wire a panel? |
Hi all,
I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR panel. I
have been looking at various glass panel options. I spoke with a shop that
does plug and play panels to your specification. They told me it would be a
$7000 in labor to have them wire up the panel. While there are certainly some
advantages to having the panel wired, tested and ready to go, that is a lot
of shekels. So I would like to put out the question to those who have done
this:
If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot,
etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to
work? Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed to know to do this?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Fuselage
San Ramon, CA
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 12
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| Subject: | glide slope antenna |
I recently added a Garmin 430 WAAS to my RV8, and used a Bob Archer
antenna in the wing tip, with a splitter for VLOC and Glide slope. The
signal strength is OK for the VLOC, however it's too weak to drive the
Glide slope, until right on top of the runway threshold. The avionics
shop put the tester on on it, and it checks OK, but with the long RG58
run, and a splitter there just isn't enough gain.
So I guess the fix is another (G/S) antenna. I don't want anything else
dangling in the breeze, so I'm thinking about a RST Technologies dipole
antenna (kit) glassed into the lower cowl.
My question is: has anyone had any experience with this type antenna,
and are there any sources besides RST, as when I called them for advise,
they where unwilling to answer questions, or provide any help.
Thanks
cjhukill@cox.net
Message 13
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| Subject: | How hard is it to wire a panel? |
Michael
Have a look at http://www.approachfaststack.com/ I'm planning to do this.
Bevan
RV7A
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MLWynn@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How hard is it to wire a panel?
Hi all,
I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR panel. I
have been looking at various glass panel options. I spoke with a shop that
does plug and play panels to your specification. They told me it would be a
$7000 in labor to have them wire up the panel. While there are certainly
some advantages to having the panel wired, tested and ready to go, that is a
lot of shekels. So I would like to put out the question to those who have
done this:
If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot,
etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to
work? Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed to know to do this?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Fuselage
San Ramon, CA
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to wire a panel? |
That price seems a little excessive to me (or maybe a lot excessive).
Wiring the panel is not so much hard as very tedious. You have to be
very organized and make a record (schematic or pictorial diagram) of
your wiring connections so you know where everything goes and so you
would be able to troubleshoot the system if anything goes wrong in the
future, or if you want to make changes in the future..
While I haven't been to one of Bob's seminars, I suspect that it would
give you the knowledge you need to do the wiring. If you have not
purchased the Aeroelectric connection booklet that is the first thing
you should do.
In a lot of respects this is just like any other task in building your
plane. There are a few specialized tools you will need and other than
that just approach it methodically and in an organized fashion.
Dick Tasker
MLWynn@aol.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR
> panel. I have been looking at various glass panel options. I spoke
> with a shop that does plug and play panels to your specification.
> They told me it would be a $7000 in labor to have them wire up the
> panel. While there are certainly some advantages to having the panel
> wired, tested and ready to go, that is a lot of shekels. So I would
> like to put out the question to those who have done this:
>
> If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder,
> autopilot, etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this
> together and get it to work? Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all
> I needed to know to do this?
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Wynn
> RV 8 Fuselage
> San Ramon, CA
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See what's free at AOL.com
> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
--
Please Note:
No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however,
that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.
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Message 15
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| Subject: | glide slope antenna |
Swap out that RG-58 cable with RG-400 before you change antennas. It
might
give you enough extra gain that the old antenna will work.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Hukill
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: glide slope antenna
I recently added a Garmin 430 WAAS to my RV8, and used a Bob Archer
antenna
in the wing tip, with a splitter for VLOC and Glide slope. The signal
strength is OK for the VLOC, however it's too weak to drive the Glide
slope,
until right on top of the runway threshold. The avionics shop put the
tester
on on it, and it checks OK, but with the long RG58 run, and a splitter
there
just isn't enough gain.
So I guess the fix is another (G/S) antenna. I don't want anything else
dangling in the breeze, so I'm thinking about a RST Technologies dipole
antenna (kit) glassed into the lower cowl.
My question is: has anyone had any experience with this type antenna,
and
are there any sources besides RST, as when I called them for advise,
they
where unwilling to answer questions, or provide any help.
Thanks
cjhukill@cox.net
Message 16
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| Subject: | How hard is it to wire a panel? |
Michael,
It's not difficult, but very time consuming.and fun. If you have someone
that has been-there-done-that to ask a few questions to get you started,
that will HELP a BUNCH. Other than that, use this list. A friend
inquired about a plug-n-play IFR panel for an RV-7 from a vendor often
used by us experimentals.$8000 was his quote. The Garmin products are
sold pre-wired (on the radio end).
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MLWynn@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How hard is it to wire a panel?
Hi all,
I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR panel.
I have been looking at various glass panel options. I spoke with a shop
that does plug and play panels to your specification. They told me it
would be a $7000 in labor to have them wire up the panel. While there
are certainly some advantages to having the panel wired, tested and
ready to go, that is a lot of shekels. So I would like to put out the
question to those who have done this:
If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder,
autopilot, etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together
and get it to work? Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed
to know to do this?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Fuselage
San Ramon, CA
_____
See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 17
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| Subject: | How hard is it to wire a panel? |
Michael,
I just asked the same question on the GRT Yahoo list. What I gathered from
those responses is that the wiring is fairly easy; just go one wire at a
time. I also understood it takes quite some time to complete the wiring,
hence the $7k quote which compares to quotes I received. Assuming a shop
rate of $65/hr, that equates to over 100 hours for someone that does it day
in and day out. I don't know about you, but I estimated it would take me at
least twice that long since my experience/proficiency is low.
Another option is to use the Approach Systems Fast Stack
(http://www.approachfaststack.com/index.html). Everyone I contacted who had
actually used this system and is flying with it was very positive about the
time saved, quality of the work, customer service, and how well their
avionics are working and ease of upgrades. I heard rumors of a few
customers that said they wouldn't use it again, but when I contacted them
directly, I got nothing but glowing reviews. Several of the builders I
contacted were very experienced and one was on his 12th plane. I'm not
recommending this as I have no experience with it, but it is another option
to consider. I was quoted about $1,200 for a GRT dual sport system with
Garmin radios and TT AP. You would still have to take care of all the DC
wiring, however.
Mike Creek
Elko, NV
Bearhawk, QB
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MLWynn@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How hard is it to wire a panel?
Hi all,
I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR panel. I
have been looking at various glass panel options. I spoke with a shop that
does plug and play panels to your specification. They told me it would be a
$7000 in labor to have them wire up the panel. While there are certainly
some advantages to having the panel wired, tested and ready to go, that is a
lot of shekels. So I would like to put out the question to those who have
done this:
If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot,
etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to
work? Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed to know to do this?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Fuselage
San Ramon, CA
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: How hard is it to wire a panel? |
Michael,
How much is your time worth per hour. Figure at least 100 hours to wire your panel.
On the other hand when you do wire it you understand it.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: MLWynn@aol.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How hard is it to wire a panel?
Hi all,
I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR panel. I have
been looking at various glass panel options. I spoke with a shop that does
plug and play panels to your specification. They told me it would be a $7000
in labor to have them wire up the panel. While there are certainly some advantages
to having the panel wired, tested and ready to go, that is a lot of shekels.
So I would like to put out the question to those who have done this:
If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot, etc.,
just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to work?
Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed to know to do this?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Fuselage
San Ramon, CA
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| Subject: | glide slope antenna |
Am I the only one recieving multiple copies of the same emails from all
of
the Matronics list servers?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Gray
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:28 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: glide slope antenna
Swap out that RG-58 cable with RG-400 before you change antennas. It
might
give you enough extra gain that the old antenna will work.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Hukill
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 10:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: glide slope antenna
I recently added a Garmin 430 WAAS to my RV8, and used a Bob Archer
antenna
in the wing tip, with a splitter for VLOC and Glide slope. The signal
strength is OK for the VLOC, however it's too weak to drive the Glide
slope,
until right on top of the runway threshold. The avionics shop put the
tester
on on it, and it checks OK, but with the long RG58 run, and a splitter
there
just isn't enough gain.
So I guess the fix is another (G/S) antenna. I don't want anything else
dangling in the breeze, so I'm thinking about a RST Technologies dipole
antenna (kit) glassed into the lower cowl.
My question is: has anyone had any experience with this type antenna,
and
are there any sources besides RST, as when I called them for advise,
they
where unwilling to answer questions, or provide any help.
Thanks
cjhukill@cox.net
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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