Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Re: Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: MB antennnas (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: MB antennnas (John Morgensen)
4. 01:54 PM - Stupid question I'm sure (Alan K. Adamson)
5. 03:17 PM - Connector for copilot stick grip (Grant Neilson)
6. 03:52 PM - (Jim Ernst)
7. 06:30 PM - Re: Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft ()
8. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: MB antennnas ()
Message 1
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Subject: | Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft |
At 10:35 PM 6/14/2007 -0700, you wrote:
><Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>Would that 40" piece of wire work outside a metal airplane if the conductor
>was insulated from the skin?
>
>I'm thinking of a wire or tape laminated to the belly between layers
>fiberglass.
>
>For that matter, could you laminate an Archer antenna to the bottom of a
>metal plane and expect it to work?
>
>If no, why not?
There needs to be some separation. A conductor laying right
next to a ground plane looks more like a transmission line
with high SWR than an antenna. The optimal belly mounted
marker beacon antenna for metal airplanes can be seen on
the 60-80's Cessnas. It's been affectionately dubbed "the
sled runner".
The more elegant antennas for metal airplanes are like
these from A/S.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/comt_markerantennas2.php
One of my cohorts at Cessna was playing with a flush antenna
design. It had a slot in the belly skin about 2" wide and
extending between tail cone formers. The opening was closed
off outside with fiberglass and inside with a hat-section.
A tuned radiator was supported centrally within the hat-sections
profile.
I seem to recall it worked well but was pretty expensive
to build compared to the "sled runner" so was never incorporated
into our products.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | re: MB antennnas |
I poked around in the catalogs for some of my suppliers
and found some pictures to illustrate the text below.
The "sled runner" antenna is still sold as a spare for about
$250. You can see a picture of it at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/AV-533.jpg
There's a low profile device offered by the same source
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DM_N27-2.jpg
this puppy is about $550 dealer net. If anyone is out at
an airport and sees a sled runner installation that they
can measure. We can publish the dimensions for folks to
exploit in building their own. Need OVERALL length of
antenna element from skin surface to trailing tip. Need
height of antenna off the skin. Need position of feedline
tap measured along element length (skin to tap location).
I could eyeball it and probably produce a perfectly good
working antenna but it would be handy to have some dimensions
off a production article.
Bob . . .
>>Would that 40" piece of wire work outside a metal airplane if the conductor
>>was insulated from the skin?
>>
>>I'm thinking of a wire or tape laminated to the belly between layers
>>fiberglass.
>>
>>For that matter, could you laminate an Archer antenna to the bottom of a
>>metal plane and expect it to work?
>>
>>If no, why not?
>
> There needs to be some separation. A conductor laying right
> next to a ground plane looks more like a transmission line
> with high SWR than an antenna. The optimal belly mounted
> marker beacon antenna for metal airplanes can be seen on
> the 60-80's Cessnas. It's been affectionately dubbed "the
> sled runner".
>
> The more elegant antennas for metal airplanes are like
> these from A/S.
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/comt_markerantennas2.php
>
> One of my cohorts at Cessna was playing with a flush antenna
> design. It had a slot in the belly skin about 2" wide and
> extending between tail cone formers. The opening was closed
> off outside with fiberglass and inside with a hat-section.
> A tuned radiator was supported centrally within the hat-sections
> profile.
>
> I seem to recall it worked well but was pretty expensive
> to build compared to the "sled runner" so was never incorporated
> into our products.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: re: MB antennnas |
I have a "sled runner" on the bottom of my "RV Trainer" aka Grumman AA1B
that is no longer connected to anything. I am about to remove it. Does
anyone want it?
John Morgensen
RV-9A
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>
> I poked around in the catalogs for some of my suppliers
> and found some pictures to illustrate the text below.
>
> The "sled runner" antenna is still sold as a spare for about
> $250. You can see a picture of it at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/AV-533.jpg
>
> There's a low profile device offered by the same source
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DM_N27-2.jpg
>
> this puppy is about $550 dealer net. If anyone is out at
> an airport and sees a sled runner installation that they
> can measure. We can publish the dimensions for folks to
> exploit in building their own. Need OVERALL length of
> antenna element from skin surface to trailing tip. Need
> height of antenna off the skin. Need position of feedline
> tap measured along element length (skin to tap location).
>
> I could eyeball it and probably produce a perfectly good
> working antenna but it would be handy to have some dimensions
> off a production article.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>>> Would that 40" piece of wire work outside a metal airplane if the
>>> conductor
>>> was insulated from the skin?
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of a wire or tape laminated to the belly between layers
>>> fiberglass.
>>>
>>> For that matter, could you laminate an Archer antenna to the bottom of a
>>> metal plane and expect it to work?
>>>
>>> If no, why not?
>>
>> There needs to be some separation. A conductor laying right
>> next to a ground plane looks more like a transmission line
>> with high SWR than an antenna. The optimal belly mounted
>> marker beacon antenna for metal airplanes can be seen on
>> the 60-80's Cessnas. It's been affectionately dubbed "the
>> sled runner".
>>
>> The more elegant antennas for metal airplanes are like
>> these from A/S.
>>
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/comt_markerantennas2.php
>>
>> One of my cohorts at Cessna was playing with a flush antenna
>> design. It had a slot in the belly skin about 2" wide and
>> extending between tail cone formers. The opening was closed
>> off outside with fiberglass and inside with a hat-section.
>> A tuned radiator was supported centrally within the hat-sections
>> profile.
>>
>> I seem to recall it worked well but was pretty expensive
>> to build compared to the "sled runner" so was never incorporated
>> into our products.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Stupid question I'm sure |
Ok, so in a composite airplane. As it relates to the Radio Stack. The
Radios, Audio panel, etc are mounted in an aluminum chassis, and some of the
items have "shield" that go to the outer tabs on the radios, etc. So do I
need to take a ground from the radio rack chassis to the single point ground
of the rest of the airplane? Or do those "Shields" end up being grounded
back thru the ground wires to the radios themselves?
Hope I explained this well enough to get a response?
Alan
Message 5
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Subject: | Connector for copilot stick grip |
NatureI'm setting up dual trim and dual PTT in my RV9A using RAC pistol
grips on both pilot & copilot sides, but would still like to remove the
copilot stick once in a while when the wife stays home and I want to carry
extra baggage on the passenger side. I'm wondering what others have done to
allow quick disconnect and removal of the copilot stick. The inside diameter
of the stick is about 3/4 inch, and I would need a six pin (circular?)
connector. Any photos of others' efforts and sources for such a connector
would be greatly appreciated.
Grant Neilson
Campbell River, B.C.
RV9A, wiring
Message 6
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please take off the mail list
Jim Ernst
Message 7
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Subject: | Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft |
40" of 22AWG wire it shall be. Any special needs for attaching it to the
coax? Solder? Duct tape? Insulate? I will be coming back from under the
panel. Ok if I epoxy (tack) the wire to the body so it does not move?
Thanks for the tip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Marker beacon antenna for composite
aircraft
--> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:25 PM 6/14/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>Question, can anyone recommend a ground plane-less marker beacon
>antenna
>option for use in composite aircraft?
>
>Thanks
Sure. 40" of wire strung out and taped to the inside
surface of your empanage.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | re: MB antennnas |
Thanks Bob,
Not only is that $$$, it looks like it will cost you about 3 knots. I'll
take it upon myself to write down the dimensions and post next time I
see one. Looks darn simple. With the Lancair Legacy I am trying to keep
all of the antennas indoors.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: re: MB antennnas
--> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
I poked around in the catalogs for some of my suppliers
and found some pictures to illustrate the text below.
The "sled runner" antenna is still sold as a spare for about $250. You
can see a picture of it at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/AV-533.jpg
There's a low profile device offered by the same source
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DM_N27-2.jpg
this puppy is about $550 dealer net. If anyone is out at
an airport and sees a sled runner installation that they
can measure. We can publish the dimensions for folks to
exploit in building their own. Need OVERALL length of
antenna element from skin surface to trailing tip. Need
height of antenna off the skin. Need position of feedline
tap measured along element length (skin to tap location).
I could eyeball it and probably produce a perfectly good working antenna
but it would be handy to have some dimensions off a production article.
Bob . . .
>>Would that 40" piece of wire work outside a metal airplane if the
>>conductor was insulated from the skin?
>>
>>I'm thinking of a wire or tape laminated to the belly between layers
>>fiberglass.
>>
>>For that matter, could you laminate an Archer antenna to the bottom of
>>a metal plane and expect it to work?
>>
>>If no, why not?
>
> There needs to be some separation. A conductor laying right
> next to a ground plane looks more like a transmission line
> with high SWR than an antenna. The optimal belly mounted
> marker beacon antenna for metal airplanes can be seen on
> the 60-80's Cessnas. It's been affectionately dubbed "the
> sled runner".
>
> The more elegant antennas for metal airplanes are like
> these from A/S.
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/comt_markerantennas2.php
>
> One of my cohorts at Cessna was playing with a flush antenna
> design. It had a slot in the belly skin about 2" wide and
> extending between tail cone formers. The opening was closed
> off outside with fiberglass and inside with a hat-section.
> A tuned radiator was supported centrally within the hat-sections
> profile.
>
> I seem to recall it worked well but was pretty expensive
> to build compared to the "sled runner" so was never incorporated
> into our products.
>
> Bob . . .
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