---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/15/07: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:44 AM - Re: Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 06:24 AM - Re: MB antennnas (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: MB antennnas (John Morgensen) 4. 01:54 PM - Stupid question I'm sure (Alan K. Adamson) 5. 03:17 PM - Connector for copilot stick grip (Grant Neilson) 6. 03:52 PM - (Jim Ernst) 7. 06:30 PM - Re: Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft () 8. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: MB antennnas () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:35 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft At 10:35 PM 6/14/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > >Bob, > >Would that 40" piece of wire work outside a metal airplane if the conductor >was insulated from the skin? > >I'm thinking of a wire or tape laminated to the belly between layers >fiberglass. > >For that matter, could you laminate an Archer antenna to the bottom of a >metal plane and expect it to work? > >If no, why not? There needs to be some separation. A conductor laying right next to a ground plane looks more like a transmission line with high SWR than an antenna. The optimal belly mounted marker beacon antenna for metal airplanes can be seen on the 60-80's Cessnas. It's been affectionately dubbed "the sled runner". The more elegant antennas for metal airplanes are like these from A/S. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/comt_markerantennas2.php One of my cohorts at Cessna was playing with a flush antenna design. It had a slot in the belly skin about 2" wide and extending between tail cone formers. The opening was closed off outside with fiberglass and inside with a hat-section. A tuned radiator was supported centrally within the hat-sections profile. I seem to recall it worked well but was pretty expensive to build compared to the "sled runner" so was never incorporated into our products. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: re: MB antennnas I poked around in the catalogs for some of my suppliers and found some pictures to illustrate the text below. The "sled runner" antenna is still sold as a spare for about $250. You can see a picture of it at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/AV-533.jpg There's a low profile device offered by the same source http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DM_N27-2.jpg this puppy is about $550 dealer net. If anyone is out at an airport and sees a sled runner installation that they can measure. We can publish the dimensions for folks to exploit in building their own. Need OVERALL length of antenna element from skin surface to trailing tip. Need height of antenna off the skin. Need position of feedline tap measured along element length (skin to tap location). I could eyeball it and probably produce a perfectly good working antenna but it would be handy to have some dimensions off a production article. Bob . . . >>Would that 40" piece of wire work outside a metal airplane if the conductor >>was insulated from the skin? >> >>I'm thinking of a wire or tape laminated to the belly between layers >>fiberglass. >> >>For that matter, could you laminate an Archer antenna to the bottom of a >>metal plane and expect it to work? >> >>If no, why not? > > There needs to be some separation. A conductor laying right > next to a ground plane looks more like a transmission line > with high SWR than an antenna. The optimal belly mounted > marker beacon antenna for metal airplanes can be seen on > the 60-80's Cessnas. It's been affectionately dubbed "the > sled runner". > > The more elegant antennas for metal airplanes are like > these from A/S. > >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/comt_markerantennas2.php > > One of my cohorts at Cessna was playing with a flush antenna > design. It had a slot in the belly skin about 2" wide and > extending between tail cone formers. The opening was closed > off outside with fiberglass and inside with a hat-section. > A tuned radiator was supported centrally within the hat-sections > profile. > > I seem to recall it worked well but was pretty expensive > to build compared to the "sled runner" so was never incorporated > into our products. > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:37 PM PST US From: John Morgensen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: re: MB antennnas I have a "sled runner" on the bottom of my "RV Trainer" aka Grumman AA1B that is no longer connected to anything. I am about to remove it. Does anyone want it? John Morgensen RV-9A Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > > I poked around in the catalogs for some of my suppliers > and found some pictures to illustrate the text below. > > The "sled runner" antenna is still sold as a spare for about > $250. You can see a picture of it at: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/AV-533.jpg > > There's a low profile device offered by the same source > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DM_N27-2.jpg > > this puppy is about $550 dealer net. If anyone is out at > an airport and sees a sled runner installation that they > can measure. We can publish the dimensions for folks to > exploit in building their own. Need OVERALL length of > antenna element from skin surface to trailing tip. Need > height of antenna off the skin. Need position of feedline > tap measured along element length (skin to tap location). > > I could eyeball it and probably produce a perfectly good > working antenna but it would be handy to have some dimensions > off a production article. > > Bob . . . > > > >>> Would that 40" piece of wire work outside a metal airplane if the >>> conductor >>> was insulated from the skin? >>> >>> I'm thinking of a wire or tape laminated to the belly between layers >>> fiberglass. >>> >>> For that matter, could you laminate an Archer antenna to the bottom of a >>> metal plane and expect it to work? >>> >>> If no, why not? >> >> There needs to be some separation. A conductor laying right >> next to a ground plane looks more like a transmission line >> with high SWR than an antenna. The optimal belly mounted >> marker beacon antenna for metal airplanes can be seen on >> the 60-80's Cessnas. It's been affectionately dubbed "the >> sled runner". >> >> The more elegant antennas for metal airplanes are like >> these from A/S. >> >> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/comt_markerantennas2.php >> >> One of my cohorts at Cessna was playing with a flush antenna >> design. It had a slot in the belly skin about 2" wide and >> extending between tail cone formers. The opening was closed >> off outside with fiberglass and inside with a hat-section. >> A tuned radiator was supported centrally within the hat-sections >> profile. >> >> I seem to recall it worked well but was pretty expensive >> to build compared to the "sled runner" so was never incorporated >> into our products. >> >> Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:36 PM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stupid question I'm sure Ok, so in a composite airplane. As it relates to the Radio Stack. The Radios, Audio panel, etc are mounted in an aluminum chassis, and some of the items have "shield" that go to the outer tabs on the radios, etc. So do I need to take a ground from the radio rack chassis to the single point ground of the rest of the airplane? Or do those "Shields" end up being grounded back thru the ground wires to the radios themselves? Hope I explained this well enough to get a response? Alan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:22 PM PST US From: "Grant Neilson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Connector for copilot stick grip NatureI'm setting up dual trim and dual PTT in my RV9A using RAC pistol grips on both pilot & copilot sides, but would still like to remove the copilot stick once in a while when the wife stays home and I want to carry extra baggage on the passenger side. I'm wondering what others have done to allow quick disconnect and removal of the copilot stick. The inside diameter of the stick is about 3/4 inch, and I would need a six pin (circular?) connector. Any photos of others' efforts and sources for such a connector would be greatly appreciated. Grant Neilson Campbell River, B.C. RV9A, wiring ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:53 PM PST US From: "Jim Ernst" Subject: AeroElectric-List: please take off the mail list Jim Ernst ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:12 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft From: 40" of 22AWG wire it shall be. Any special needs for attaching it to the coax? Solder? Duct tape? Insulate? I will be coming back from under the panel. Ok if I epoxy (tack) the wire to the body so it does not move? Thanks for the tip -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 9:44 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Marker beacon antenna for composite aircraft --> At 04:25 PM 6/14/2007 -0400, you wrote: >Question, can anyone recommend a ground plane-less marker beacon >antenna >option for use in composite aircraft? > >Thanks Sure. 40" of wire strung out and taped to the inside surface of your empanage. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:34 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: re: MB antennnas From: Thanks Bob, Not only is that $$$, it looks like it will cost you about 3 knots. I'll take it upon myself to write down the dimensions and post next time I see one. Looks darn simple. With the Lancair Legacy I am trying to keep all of the antennas indoors. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 10:24 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: re: MB antennnas --> I poked around in the catalogs for some of my suppliers and found some pictures to illustrate the text below. The "sled runner" antenna is still sold as a spare for about $250. You can see a picture of it at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/AV-533.jpg There's a low profile device offered by the same source http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/DM_N27-2.jpg this puppy is about $550 dealer net. If anyone is out at an airport and sees a sled runner installation that they can measure. We can publish the dimensions for folks to exploit in building their own. Need OVERALL length of antenna element from skin surface to trailing tip. Need height of antenna off the skin. Need position of feedline tap measured along element length (skin to tap location). I could eyeball it and probably produce a perfectly good working antenna but it would be handy to have some dimensions off a production article. Bob . . . >>Would that 40" piece of wire work outside a metal airplane if the >>conductor was insulated from the skin? >> >>I'm thinking of a wire or tape laminated to the belly between layers >>fiberglass. >> >>For that matter, could you laminate an Archer antenna to the bottom of >>a metal plane and expect it to work? >> >>If no, why not? > > There needs to be some separation. A conductor laying right > next to a ground plane looks more like a transmission line > with high SWR than an antenna. The optimal belly mounted > marker beacon antenna for metal airplanes can be seen on > the 60-80's Cessnas. It's been affectionately dubbed "the > sled runner". > > The more elegant antennas for metal airplanes are like > these from A/S. > >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/comt_markerantennas2.php > > One of my cohorts at Cessna was playing with a flush antenna > design. It had a slot in the belly skin about 2" wide and > extending between tail cone formers. The opening was closed > off outside with fiberglass and inside with a hat-section. > A tuned radiator was supported centrally within the hat-sections > profile. > > I seem to recall it worked well but was pretty expensive > to build compared to the "sled runner" so was never incorporated > into our products. > > Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.