---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/28/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:59 AM - Re: OT- email for Brian Lloyd (rd2@evenlink.com) 2. 07:26 AM - Re: OT- email for Brian Lloyd (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 09:45 AM - Re: OT- email for Brian Lloyd (rd2@evenlink.com) 4. 10:17 AM - Re: OT- email for Brian Lloyd (Matt Prather) 5. 10:22 AM - Re: OT- email for Brian Lloyd (Kevin Horton) 6. 10:49 AM - Alterations to Z-12 (tx_jayhawk) 7. 12:23 PM - SoS Vibrator Recomendation () 8. 12:37 PM - Re: Alterations to Z-12 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 12:39 PM - Re: SoS Vibrator Recomendation (Dave Saylor) 10. 07:25 PM - Re: SoS Vibrator Recomendation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 07:56 PM - Re: SoS Vibrator Recomendation (Michel Creek) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:16 AM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT- email for Brian Lloyd Thanks, Bob. I used the same address (and brianl@lloyd.com, and brian-av@lloyd.com) - all came back as "user unknown". Hm.... Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from Robert L. Nuckolls, III; Date: 09:37 PM 6/27/2007 -0600) ________________________________________________________________ At 08:08 PM 6/27/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Does anyone happen to have a current email address for Brian Lloyd? >My message keeps coming back as undeliverable. The last address I have for Brian is brian-yak@lloyd.com His last post to the List was September 2006. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT- email for Brian Lloyd At 08:56 AM 6/28/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Thanks, Bob. >I used the same address (and brianl@lloyd.com, and brian-av@lloyd.com) - >all came back as "user unknown". Hm.... I had not noticed how long it has been since we heard from Brian. Let us hope that this apparent transition was not the result of unhappy circumstances. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:34 AM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT- email for Brian Lloyd The sudden and long silence was/is somewhat untypical. Hope everything is alright. Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from Robert L. Nuckolls, III; Date: 09:27 AM 6/28/2007 -0600) ________________________________________________________________ At 08:56 AM 6/28/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Thanks, Bob. >I used the same address (and brianl@lloyd.com, and brian-av@lloyd.com) - >all came back as "user unknown". Hm.... I had not noticed how long it has been since we heard from Brian. Let us hope that this apparent transition was not the result of unhappy circumstances. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT- email for Brian Lloyd From: "Matt Prather" I went here: http://lloyd.com/~brianl/ And found brian-net@lloyd.com . Don't know if it will work any better.. Matt- > > The sudden and long silence was/is somewhat untypical. Hope everything is > alright. > Rumen > do not archive > > _____________________Original message __________________________ > (received from Robert L. Nuckolls, III; Date: 09:27 AM > 6/28/2007 -0600) > ________________________________________________________________ > > > At 08:56 AM 6/28/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >> >>Thanks, Bob. >>I used the same address (and brianl@lloyd.com, and brian-av@lloyd.com) - >>all came back as "user unknown". Hm.... > > > I had not noticed how long it has been since > we heard from Brian. Let us hope that this > apparent transition was not the result of unhappy > circumstances. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:57 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT- email for Brian Lloyd His absence was noted on the Yak List as well. Someone queried about him in mid-Feb 2007, and someone else responded: " He's fine. Newly married and building a new home at an airpark near Sacramento. He is missed." Kevin Horton do not archive On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:41:53 -0400 rd2@evenlink.com wrote: > > The sudden and long silence was/is somewhat untypical. Hope everything is > alright. > Rumen > do not archive > > _____________________Original message __________________________ > (received from Robert L. Nuckolls, III; Date: 09:27 AM > 6/28/2007 -0600) > ________________________________________________________________ > > > At 08:56 AM 6/28/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >Thanks, Bob. > >I used the same address (and brianl@lloyd.com, and brian-av@lloyd.com) - > >all came back as "user unknown". Hm.... > > > I had not noticed how long it has been since > we heard from Brian. Let us hope that this > apparent transition was not the result of unhappy > circumstances. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:47 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alterations to Z-12 From: "tx_jayhawk" I have essentially a Z-12 type setup with primary alternator, 20 A B&C standby alt, and PC 680 battery. Question is this...why would you not have the standby alternator powering the essential bus directly as opposed to the main bus? I know the "juice"gets there eventually, but it seems like a couple of extra hops that you may not want. If you lose the main alt and can't power everything on the main anyway, why not route the standby alt power direct to where you want it (essential bus)? Alternatively, I suppose you could have some sort of switch/relay to change from main to essential (from the standby). Any thoughts? Thanks, Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121091#121091 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:53 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: SoS Vibrator Recomendation 6/28/2007 Hello Mike, I suggest that joining the 21st century with a solid state electronic starting vibrator --Unison SlickSTART SS1002 -- is the way to go. http://www.unisonindustries.com/ourproducts/slickmagnetosandharnesses.html 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." Time: 11:11:00 AM PST US From: "Michel Creek" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SoS Vibrator Recomendation Are there any recommendations for purchase of a starting vibrator for Bendix 200 series mags? AC Spruce lists one for $258, but I'm wondering if there are other options. Thanks, Mike Creek Bearhawk ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:04 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alterations to Z-12 At 10:48 AM 6/28/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >I have essentially a Z-12 type setup with primary alternator, 20 A B&C >standby alt, and PC 680 battery. > >Question is this...why would you not have the standby alternator powering >the essential bus directly as opposed to the main bus? I know the >"juice"gets there eventually, but it seems like a couple of extra hops >that you may not want. If you lose the main alt and can't power >everything on the main anyway, why not route the standby alt power direct >to where you want it (essential bus)? Alternatively, I suppose you could >have some sort of switch/relay to change from main to essential (from the >standby). > >Any thoughts? > >Thanks, >Scott Check the notes for Figure Z-12 in both the text of Appendix Z and the chapter on system reliability. Z-12 is NOT INTENDED for NEW DESIGN. It's an example of how the SD-20 can be ADDED to an existing "spam can like" architecture. If you're airplane is already flying with an an a-la C-172 system installed and you're wanting to convert to an all electric configuration with a minimum of chop-and-hack to the existing system, then Z-12 should be considered. This is what's happening to hundreds of TC aircraft that are receiving the benefits of a vacuum pump driven, second alternator. What makes you think you NEED 20A worth of backup power? In what ways does Z-13/8 fall short of facilitating a comfortable termination of flight should you happen (unlikely) to loose the main alternator? Under what anticipated flight conditions would you find that 8+ amps of continuous engine driven power + battery reserves would not fill the bill for getting on the ground comfortably? Before you jump to an answer, let us suppose that there were NO practical solutions for a vacuum pump driven alternator. If that component were not in our bag of tricks, how would it alter the way you plan to use your airplane? The point of the thought problem is to deduce whether 20A vs. 8A of backup really drives safety issues . . . or is it just a cool, $1000, 8 pound solution to a problem that doesn't need to be solved when $400 worth of hardware weighing 4 pounds will do just fine. I'd judge that a VERY small fraction of the OBAM aircraft community can really justify so large a second alternator. Let's start with Z-13/8 and then figure out the lowest cost of ownership, minimum parts count approach to meeting your mission goals. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:34 PM PST US From: "Dave Saylor" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SoS Vibrator Recomendation SlickStart works great. But, any suggestions for suppliers? Unison says there are redesigning the 1001, discontiuing the 1002. The only source I know of has a single 1002 in stock for $500. Sources say at least a year before any more are available. ACS and Vans are hopelessly backordered with no help in sight. Anyone know differently? Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: SoS Vibrator Recomendation 6/28/2007 Hello Mike, I suggest that joining the 21st century with a solid state electronic starting vibrator --Unison SlickSTART SS1002 -- is the way to go. http://www.unisonindustries.com/ourproducts/slickmagnetosandharnesses.html 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." Time: 11:11:00 AM PST US From: "Michel Creek" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SoS Vibrator Recomendation Are there any recommendations for purchase of a starting vibrator for Bendix 200 series mags? AC Spruce lists one for $258, but I'm wondering if there are other options. Thanks, Mike Creek Bearhawk ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:16 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SoS Vibrator Recomendation At 11:07 AM 6/26/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > >Are there any recommendations for purchase of a starting vibrator for Bendix >200 series mags? AC Spruce lists one for $258, but I'm wondering if there >are other options. Mike, do you have an old non-working vibrator? I've always wanted to get my hands on one of these for dissection. It would be an interesting task to craft an experimental clone of the electro-mechanical vibrator . . . or even the solid state replacement. It would be helpful to do some analysis of the energies and delivery philosophies. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:47 PM PST US From: "Michel Creek" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SoS Vibrator Recomendation Hi Bob, I don't have one at this time as mine is a new (to this airplane) installation. There is a 24 volt version for sale on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/bendix-starting-vibrator-pn-10-357487-242d_W0 QQitemZ300124485320QQihZ020QQcategoryZ26442QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZView Item with a starting bid of $24.95 and that is the least expensive one I could find. If I run across a dead or really cheap one I'll pick it up and send it to you. Thanks to all who replied to the initial post. A group member contacted me directly and I was able to buy a SlickStart that he wasn't using. Regards, Mike Creek Bearhawk QB -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:25 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SoS Vibrator Recomendation At 11:07 AM 6/26/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > >Are there any recommendations for purchase of a starting vibrator for Bendix >200 series mags? AC Spruce lists one for $258, but I'm wondering if there >are other options. Mike, do you have an old non-working vibrator? I've always wanted to get my hands on one of these for dissection. It would be an interesting task to craft an experimental clone of the electro-mechanical vibrator . . . or even the solid state replacement. It would be helpful to do some analysis of the energies and delivery philosophies. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.