---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/04/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:00 AM - Re: Automatic Headlight Hi/Lo Fallover Circuit (Eric M. Jones) 2. 07:54 AM - Dynon Compass mounting (Emrath) 3. 08:23 AM - Re: Automatic Headlight Hi/Lo Fallover Circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:30 AM - Re: Strobe lights temperature (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:31 AM - Re: Dynon Compass mounting (Terry Watson) 6. 09:46 AM - Re: Strobe lights temperature (Merlin) 7. 10:23 AM - Re: Strobe lights temperature (William Gill) 8. 11:36 AM - Re: Strobe lights temperature (PJ Seipel) 9. 12:17 PM - Battery Won't Take a Charge (Danny Smith) 10. 12:40 PM - Re: Dynon Compass mounting (Emrath) 11. 02:00 PM - Re: Strobe lights temperature (Merlin) 12. 04:11 PM - Re: Dynon Compass mounting (Dan Reeves) 13. 05:21 PM - Re: Re: Dynon Compass mounting (N81JG@aol.com) 14. 05:33 PM - Re: Automatic Headlight Hi/Lo Fallover Circuit (Ralph Hoover) 15. 10:47 PM - Re: Dynon Compass mounting (N81JG@aol.com) 16. 10:59 PM - Re: Re: Automatic Headlight Hi/Lo Fallover Circuit (Matt Prather) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:26 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Automatic Headlight Hi/Lo Fallover Circuit From: "Eric M. Jones" > > I would like to see your "back-of-the-envelope" design. > What do you mean "by adding one simple wire"? Just a jumper from the high to low beam at the lamp, or another wire from a switch in the cockpit. I'd like to hear your ideas. > At some point I will install LED headlights, probably after it's "plug-n-play". I meant another wire to the lamp, allowing a switch to turn on one filament or the other. But I sense there is some old and clever way to do this job that has been around since 1930. Attached is my "back-of-the-envelope" design. This is not adequate to build one, but remember, I suggest not doing it at all. "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H. L. Mencken -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122148#122148 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/high_beam_to_low_beam_165.pdf ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:39 AM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon Compass mounting I have seen some pictures of the EDC-10 compass mounting in a side by side RV behind the baggage compartment near the top of the fuselage but I have lost the reference for these pictures. I would like to review how this was accompished to be able to replicate in my ship flattering the inventor of this install method. Does anyone have pictures of their installation of the compass module behind the baggage compartment bulkhead that they can share with me? Marty in Brentwood TN RV-6A panel wiring and sanding fiberglass. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Automatic Headlight Hi/Lo Fallover Circuit At 08:42 AM 6/29/2007 -0400, you wrote: >I'm wondering if there is a device I can install on my landing lights that >will sense when the high beam filament has failed and automagically switch >the current to the low beam filament. > >I'm using the single source/single switch wig-wag system, as per >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Lighting/WigWag.pdf >pg 3.0 and have only one wire to each light. > >My landing lights are a Bob Olds design and utilize dual filament >automotive H4 halogen bulbs, one per side. I would like to have something >(preferably home brewed - read low $$$) at each headlamp that will fall >over to the low beam so I can double bulb life, reduce maintenance and >save a little money. > >Thanks, > >Tony Kirk >RV-6A N57TK Your query reminded me of an article in progress that needed to be finished. I've posted it at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Failure_Detection_and_Annunciation.pdf I'll echo Eric's admonition that automatic changeover for failed components is appropriate only on weapons systems and spacecraft. Even then, the fact that a failure occurred and the last can of peas has been pulled down off the shelf needs to be annunciated with as much reliability as the automatic changeover system itself. Adding such systems into our itty-bitty airplanes has a high cost of ownership and poor return on investment. Just because your RV wants to be a 787 when it grows up doesn't mean it should be burdened with things that even the 787 pilot (and his ground crew) would find more of a hassle than a help. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:51 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature At 11:39 AM 7/1/2007 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >I have tested my Whelen strobe lights on the bench before installing them, >and one of them (the tail one) is overheating (95C !! after a couple of >minutes), although working fine. But it smells like a hot electric device. >I cannot get from Whelen whether it is normal or not... > >I'd like to have the opinion of other users to compare with... > >Thanks in advance, > > >Philippe >Brussels - Belgium This is pretty toasty but perhaps not out of line for a devices that is not mounted to an airframe for heat sinking and cooled by slipstream. I take it that you've got all fixtures running and there is a marked difference in temperatures between the tail fixture and the tip fixtures? Is there a nav-light in the fixture. Is it on too? The last time I looked inside one of these there were two bulbs (nav and strobe) and a pulse transformer to trigger the tube. Energies dissipated in the fixture were dominated by the nav bulb and followed by the strobe tube. The transformer should run stone cold. If you're smelling something, it has to be the insulation in bulb sockets, potting compounds or perhaps the insulation of the pulse transformer. I'm having trouble getting my head wrapped around the idea that one fixture should be markedly different than the other two and why it might be different. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:22 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon Compass mounting Marty, This isn't exactly what you asked for, but Vans now sells a "mount kit for AHRS Unit" for the RV-7/9. Here's a reference and drawing: http://tinyurl.com/2emg5f In my RV-8A project I went to the trouble with the Blue Mountain remote compass heading sensor to build a light-weight aluminum bridge to span from one side of the fuselage to the other to try to get it as far from any steel or electrical as possible. I think it will work, but there are probably better ways. Terry RV-8A still building Seattle I have seen some pictures of the EDC-10 compass mounting in a side by side RV behind the baggage compartment near the top of the fuselage but I have lost the reference for these pictures. I would like to review how this was accompished to be able to replicate in my ship flattering the inventor of this install method. Does anyone have pictures of their installation of the compass module behind the baggage compartment bulkhead that they can share with me? Marty in Brentwood TN RV-6A panel wiring and sanding fiberglass. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:54 AM PST US From: "Merlin" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature Hello Bob, Thanks for the reply. This t is reached with both bulbs strobe+position on, but with the strobe only, it isn't much cooler. I have compared with the wingtip strobes, and those remain cool enough to take them in hand. I'm surprised by the difference... Philippe -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Robert L. Nuckolls, III Envoy : mercredi 4 juillet 2007 18:28 : aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature --> At 11:39 AM 7/1/2007 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >I have tested my Whelen strobe lights on the bench before installing >them, and one of them (the tail one) is overheating (95C !! after a >couple of minutes), although working fine. But it smells like a hot electric device. >I cannot get from Whelen whether it is normal or not... > >I'd like to have the opinion of other users to compare with... > >Thanks in advance, > > >Philippe >Brussels - Belgium This is pretty toasty but perhaps not out of line for a devices that is not mounted to an airframe for heat sinking and cooled by slipstream. I take it that you've got all fixtures running and there is a marked difference in temperatures between the tail fixture and the tip fixtures? Is there a nav-light in the fixture. Is it on too? The last time I looked inside one of these there were two bulbs (nav and strobe) and a pulse transformer to trigger the tube. Energies dissipated in the fixture were dominated by the nav bulb and followed by the strobe tube. The transformer should run stone cold. If you're smelling something, it has to be the insulation in bulb sockets, potting compounds or perhaps the insulation of the pulse transformer. I'm having trouble getting my head wrapped around the idea that one fixture should be markedly different than the other two and why it might be different. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:08 AM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature I believe the energy supplied for the tail strobe is twice that supplied to EACH wingtip strobe IF the wingtip strobes flash simultaneously...a wiring option for the installer. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 11:28 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature At 11:39 AM 7/1/2007 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >I have tested my Whelen strobe lights on the bench before installing them, >and one of them (the tail one) is overheating (95C !! after a couple of >minutes), although working fine. But it smells like a hot electric device. >I cannot get from Whelen whether it is normal or not... > >I'd like to have the opinion of other users to compare with... > >Thanks in advance, > > >Philippe >Brussels - Belgium This is pretty toasty but perhaps not out of line for a devices that is not mounted to an airframe for heat sinking and cooled by slipstream. I take it that you've got all fixtures running and there is a marked difference in temperatures between the tail fixture and the tip fixtures? Is there a nav-light in the fixture. Is it on too? The last time I looked inside one of these there were two bulbs (nav and strobe) and a pulse transformer to trigger the tube. Energies dissipated in the fixture were dominated by the nav bulb and followed by the strobe tube. The transformer should run stone cold. If you're smelling something, it has to be the insulation in bulb sockets, potting compounds or perhaps the insulation of the pulse transformer. I'm having trouble getting my head wrapped around the idea that one fixture should be markedly different than the other two and why it might be different. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:00 AM PST US From: PJ Seipel Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature I have the same problem, and asked the same question on the RV List and several others reported the same situation. In my case, the tail strobe flashes twice as many times as the wingtip strobes, which is what I believe is causing the heating. In my case, it got so hot that it clouded the lens. I spoke to Whelen about it, and all they could tell me was that it needs to be installed in the plane and with some length of wiring between the strobe and power supply. According to the guy I spoke to, hooking the strobes direct to the power supply with a short length of wire is bad. I'm still concerned that it may scorch the fiberglass rudder tip, but I guess I won't know until I install it. PJ Seipel RV-10 #40032 Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: > > > At 11:39 AM 7/1/2007 +0200, you wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I have tested my Whelen strobe lights on the bench before installing >> them, and one of them (the tail one) is overheating (95C !! after a >> couple of minutes), although working fine. But it smells like a hot >> electric device. I cannot get from Whelen whether it is normal or not... >> >> I'd like to have the opinion of other users to compare with... >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> >> Philippe >> Brussels - Belgium > > This is pretty toasty but perhaps not out of line for > a devices that is not mounted to an airframe for heat > sinking and cooled by slipstream. > > I take it that you've got all fixtures running and there > is a marked difference in temperatures between the tail > fixture and the tip fixtures? Is there a nav-light in > the fixture. Is it on too? > > The last time I looked inside one of these there were > two bulbs (nav and strobe) and a pulse transformer to > trigger the tube. Energies dissipated in the fixture > were dominated by the nav bulb and followed by the strobe > tube. The transformer should run stone cold. If you're > smelling something, it has to be the insulation in bulb > sockets, potting compounds or perhaps the insulation of > the pulse transformer. I'm having trouble getting my head > wrapped around the idea that one fixture should be markedly > different than the other two and why it might be different. > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) > ( give some practical results, but ) > ( that's not why we do it." ) > ( ) > ( Richard P. Feynman ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:13 PM PST US From: "Danny Smith" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery Won't Take a Charge I have a couple of 12V Panasonic batteries that came out of a computer UPS that are much like the Odyssey PC680. They've been setting on the bench for months and only shows about 11.4V. (They were ok when I last used them.) When I hook the battery charger up they measure 12.9V but the charger shows 0 amps. If I leave it hooked up the 12.9V measurement remains but still 0 amps. If after several hours of being hooked to the charger I unhook it they still read 11.4 V again. Is this a charger problem or battery problem? Danny ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:40 PM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Dynon Compass mounting Thanks Terry, it is interesting but I would rather not mount the compass module there as it would interfer with something like a EZ Autopilot altitude hold, should I add one at some point. A similar set up on the turtle deck might work. Marty Subject: RE: Dynon Compass mounting From: Terry Watson (terry@tcwatson.com) Marty, This isn't exactly what you asked for, but Vans now sells a "mount kit for AHRS Unit" for the RV-7/9. Here's a reference and drawing: http://tinyurl.com/2emg5f In my RV-8A project I went to the trouble with the Blue Mountain remote compass heading sensor to build a light-weight aluminum bridge to span from one side of the fuselage to the other to try to get it as far from any steel or electrical as possible. I think it will work, but there are probably better ways. Terry RV-8A still building Seattle I have seen some pictures of the EDC-10 compass mounting in a side by side RV behind the baggage compartment near the top of the fuselage but I have lost the reference for these pictures. I would like to review how this was accompished to be able to replicate in my ship flattering the inventor of this install method. Does anyone have pictures of their installation of the compass module behind the baggage compartment bulkhead that they can share with me? Marty in Brentwood TN RV-6A panel wiring and sanding fiberglass. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:55 PM PST US From: "Merlin" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature Hi Bill, Thanks very much for pointing my mistake :-) I don't understand how I have skipped that note on the product sheet... And Whelen themselves didn't tell me anything when I have complained... I'll remove the jumper that makes the alternate flashing, one sole strobe doesn't seem to be designed to withstand energy for two... Phil -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de William Gill Envoy : mercredi 4 juillet 2007 19:20 : aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Objet : RE: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature --> I believe the energy supplied for the tail strobe is twice that supplied to EACH wingtip strobe IF the wingtip strobes flash simultaneously...a wiring option for the installer. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 11:28 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe lights temperature At 11:39 AM 7/1/2007 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, > >I have tested my Whelen strobe lights on the bench before installing them, >and one of them (the tail one) is overheating (95C !! after a couple of >minutes), although working fine. But it smells like a hot electric device. >I cannot get from Whelen whether it is normal or not... > >I'd like to have the opinion of other users to compare with... > >Thanks in advance, > > >Philippe >Brussels - Belgium This is pretty toasty but perhaps not out of line for a devices that is not mounted to an airframe for heat sinking and cooled by slipstream. I take it that you've got all fixtures running and there is a marked difference in temperatures between the tail fixture and the tip fixtures? Is there a nav-light in the fixture. Is it on too? The last time I looked inside one of these there were two bulbs (nav and strobe) and a pulse transformer to trigger the tube. Energies dissipated in the fixture were dominated by the nav bulb and followed by the strobe tube. The transformer should run stone cold. If you're smelling something, it has to be the insulation in bulb sockets, potting compounds or perhaps the insulation of the pulse transformer. I'm having trouble getting my head wrapped around the idea that one fixture should be markedly different than the other two and why it might be different. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:09 PM PST US From: Dan Reeves Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon Compass mounting http://www.rvproject.com/20030809.html I have seen some pictures of the EDC-10 compass mounting in a side by side RV behind the baggage compartment near the top of the fuselage but I have lost the reference for these pictures. I would like to review how this was accompished to be able to replicate in my ship flattering the inventor of this install method. Does anyone have pictures of their installation of the compass module behind the baggage compartment bulkhead that they can share with me? Marty in Brentwood TN RV-6A panel wiring and sanding fiberglass. --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:55 PM PST US From: N81JG@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Dynon Compass mounting In a message dated 7/4/2007 12:43:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, emrath@comcast.net writes: http://tinyurl.com/2emg5f Check out Dan Checkoway's site at rvproject.com. He has a Dynon magnetometer mounted in the top of the rear fuselage. Great photos on his build site. John Greaves VariEze N81JG ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:14 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Automatic Headlight Hi/Lo Fallover Circuit Several turns of heavy magnet wire ~18 ga wound the length of a magnetic reed switch in place of the .01 ohm resistor and you could bias the FET on when the current flow stops. A similar idea is used to drive the bulb failure indicator on some cars (Volvo, uses a Bosch module) It turns on a warning bulb not an FET but the idea is there. -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:55 PM PST US From: N81JG@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon Compass mounting _www.rvproject.com_ (http://www.rvproject.com) Many photos of the magnetometer installation of Dan Checkoway in his construction log. John ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Automatic Headlight Hi/Lo Fallover Circuit From: "Matt Prather" I've said it before (and so have others).. Most of the time you don't really need a landing light at all. I probably make slightly more consistently smooth landings with a light, but I've don't lots without. Certainly if you are operating from an airfield that doesn't have runway lights, you'll need something that's reliable/redundant (if you don't have an acceptable alternate landing field for the _very rare case when a light has failed). Again echoing others, I'd add the other wire to run the other filament. You _could_ add a second control wire (lighter) to run a relay which allows you to select which filament is lit - dimmer relay - mounted near the bulbs.. I like my Cessna setup with 2 bulbs - a taxi light and a landing light mounted in the wing. I especially like the wing tip mounted lights. The taxi light and landing lights are aimed such that either works adequately at either purpose. Taildraggers might not be like this.. Whatever you do, make sure replacing the bulbs is easy.. Regards, Matt- > > > >> >> I would like to see your "back-of-the-envelope" design. >> What do you mean "by adding one simple wire"? Just a jumper from the >> high to low beam at the lamp, or another wire from a switch in the >> cockpit. I'd like to hear your ideas. >> At some point I will install LED headlights, probably after it's >> "plug-n-play". > > > I meant another wire to the lamp, allowing a switch to turn on one > filament or the other. But I sense there is some old and clever way to do > this job that has been around since 1930. > > Attached is my "back-of-the-envelope" design. This is not adequate to > build one, but remember, I suggest not doing it at all. > > "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and > deserve to get it good and hard." -- H. L. Mencken > > -------- > Eric M. Jones > www.PerihelionDesign.com > 113 Brentwood Drive > Southbridge, MA 01550 > (508) 764-2072 > emjones@charter.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122148#122148 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/high_beam_to_low_beam_165.pdf > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.