AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 07/09/07


Total Messages Posted: 5



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:43 AM - Starter Solenoid fuse blows, ideas? ()
     2. 07:48 AM - Source for LED's (CardinalNSB@aol.com)
     3. 10:09 AM - Re: Source for LED's (Bruce Gray)
     4. 11:04 AM - FW-Eng ground (Fergus Kyle)
     5. 07:00 PM - Re: Starter Solenoid fuse blows, ideas? (Terry Miles)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:43:11 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Starter Solenoid fuse blows, ideas?
    7/9/2007 Hello Terry, You wrote: "C-1's job is to energize C-2. The fuse that blows feels the draw from both C-1 and C-2." I am a bit confused by these two sentences. I thought that coil C-1's job, when the starter switch is closed, is to move the slug that then closes the main contacts of that contactor. Then the electricity flowing through that contactor's main contacts is the electricity that will flow on through coil C-2 and cause its slug to move and both engage the starter pinion gear and close its main contacts to provide electricity to turn the starter motor. See Figure 6 here http://aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf If my thinking is correct then the fuse that blows would not feel the additional electrical draw from coil C-2 because that draw is coming through the main contacts of the contactor served by coil C-1 and not through coil C-1 itself. Comment? 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." Time: 10:01:14 AM PST US From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Starter Solenoid fuse blows, ideas? Mike, I am only a Saturday afternoon mechanic. Take the following as "off the top of my head" ideas. Unless I missed it, you didn't mention about the coil on the starter motor. Without looking at your system, it is likely your B&C "starter solenoid" actually uses about 1 amp max to energize another coil that is bolted to the starter motor. I'll call that second coil C-2 so we are both sure which component we are talking about. C-2's job like any coil is to close the big juice contactors so current at 150 amps maybe can go from the batt to the starter motor. C2 is also responsible to throw the pinion gear into the fly wheel and keep it that way until you let off on the starter button. C-1's job is to energize C-2. The fuse that blows feels the draw from both C-1 and C-2. Your comment about having to move the prop or it blows a 2nd fuse makes me want to investigate C-2 the coil on the skytec. Skytec will sell you another coil for about $5 if they don't just out and out give you one from stock. http://www.skytecair.com/ They are real good about answering tech questions there too. If you call have model and serial # ready. The C-2 casing is held on the starter motor with a couple of screws and the guts can get swapped out just as easy. Look around at your ring gear and the starter gears and see if you see any scoring. The pinion doesn't thrust into the gears, or has some other mechanical problem the mech load creates an amp draw that can eat a fuse--and be a literal roulette wheel like problem that only happens some of the time. Hope this leads you to a couple of ideas more. Good luck Terry Miles


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:48:35 AM PST US
    From: CardinalNSB@aol.com
    Subject: Source for LED's
    I want to get a real basic annunciator field approved, using LED's. The ones from Radio Shack work fine and fit. My ap mechanic is ok with the setup, except for no documentation on the LED's. What would anyone suggest as far as sourcing and documentation on the LED's? Are there any reasonable sources for a Mil-spec LED, or even a SAE LED bulb? Thanks, Skip ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:09:07 AM PST US
    From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
    Subject: Source for LED's
    I would think that as long as the device was supplemental and did not replace any required equipment, that field approval would be pretty automatic, concerned only with current draw and fusing. Thank God for experimental aviation, that we can leave all this garbage behind us. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CardinalNSB@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:43 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Source for LED's I want to get a real basic annunciator field approved, using LED's. The ones from Radio Shack work fine and fit. My ap mechanic is ok with the setup, except for no documentation on the LED's. What would anyone suggest as far as sourcing and documentation on the LED's? Are there any reasonable sources for a Mil-spec LED, or even a SAE LED bulb? Thanks, Skip _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:04:44 AM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: FW-Eng ground
    'lectric Bob: I'm having trouble setting out the basics. I am using B&C's braid strip (11-1/2" long) to join Firewall Ground (big Bolt on Froest of Tabs) to engine block mounting bolt on Rotax 914 - a rare possible spot in the distance. The $10 voltmeter says "7.3 Ohms" give or take - and I wonder if that is in the ball park in view of the braid length - otherwise it's FW to eng mount which may be worse...... Best of regards Ferg Europa A064 914 mono


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:00:11 PM PST US
    From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Starter Solenoid fuse blows, ideas?
    Hi Mike, The article is certainly a help because it causes us to refine between us what you are asking and what I am suggesting. Look at figure 6 in Bob's article. The contactor shown there is the C-2 solenoid. Look at it's coil. The (+) power it takes to energize the C-2 coil comes from C-1 main contactor. Starter motor solenoids are usually (+) triggered and have their own ground. Now, is your C-1 main contactor input line fused? Does the C-1 coil require a (-) or a (+) to energize? If it's a (+), is that source fused? Is there a jumper from the (+) of the C-1 coil to the input contactor? How is C-2 wired? Remember besides being a solenoid is also has to runs the pinion. I am sorry to be adding any confusion here. I should have said this: If your C-1 output line is fuse protected and goes only to provide the (+) for the C-2 coil, then both draw from that fuse. If your pinion-to-flywheel mechanics are at issue somehow with bad tooth or a rough meshing somewhere then maybe that is your sometimes high current draw that's blows a fuse. When you never mentioned C-2 in your first post I thought I toss it out there for you to consider. What you wrote (below) would be correct if the (+) end of the C-2's coil and the C-2 main contactor were jumper wired together. Likely they are not. Also you wrote: "...both engage the starter pinion gear and close its main contacts to provide electricity to turn the starter motor." It provides a path for the electricity to turn the starter motor. There's a difference. The starter motor demand itself is unfused and it routes from the battery thru the C-2 contactors and then to the starter motor. Your starter on/off switch is likely fused at 10 amps this to carry C-1 and C-2 holding coils and the pinion trusting current demands from C-2. The heavy wire from battery to starter is not fused. Without seeing your system it would be possible to wire C-2 into that unfused circuit and jumper the main contactor to the coil, but I do not think that is not commonly done. I am sure you know this but I want to add that C-1 is the not the battery master switch. We could call that on C-zero! We are only talking about the starter circuitry. I hope this helps. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:36 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Starter Solenoid fuse blows, ideas? 7/9/2007 Hello Terry, You wrote: "C-1's job is to energize C-2. The fuse that blows feels the draw from both C-1 and C-2." I am a bit confused by these two sentences. I thought that coil C-1's job, when the starter switch is closed, is to move the slug that then closes the main contacts of that contactor. Then the electricity flowing through that contactor's main contacts is the electricity that will flow on through coil C-2 and cause its slug to move and both engage the starter pinion gear and close its main contacts to provide electricity to turn the starter motor. See Figure 6 here http://aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf If my thinking is correct then the fuse that blows would not feel the additional electrical draw from coil C-2 because that draw is coming through the main contacts of the contactor served by coil C-1 and not through coil C-1 itself. Comment? 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." Time: 10:01:14 AM PST US From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Starter Solenoid fuse blows, ideas? Mike, I am only a Saturday afternoon mechanic. Take the following as "off the top of my head" ideas. Unless I missed it, you didn't mention about the coil on the starter motor. Without looking at your system, it is likely your B&C "starter solenoid" actually uses about 1 amp max to energize another coil that is bolted to the starter motor. I'll call that second coil C-2 so we are both sure which component we are talking about. C-2's job like any coil is to close the big juice contactors so current at 150 amps maybe can go from the batt to the starter motor. C2 is also responsible to throw the pinion gear into the fly wheel and keep it that way until you let off on the starter button. C-1's job is to energize C-2. The fuse that blows feels the draw from both C-1 and C-2. Your comment about having to move the prop or it blows a 2nd fuse makes me want to investigate C-2 the coil on the skytec. Skytec will sell you another coil for about $5 if they don't just out and out give you one from stock. http://www.skytecair.com/ They are real good about answering tech questions there too. If you call have model and serial # ready. The C-2 casing is held on the starter motor with a couple of screws and the guts can get swapped out just as easy. Look around at your ring gear and the starter gears and see if you see any scoring. The pinion doesn't thrust into the gears, or has some other mechanical problem the mech load creates an amp draw that can eat a fuse--and be a literal roulette wheel like problem that only happens some of the time. Hope this leads you to a couple of ideas more. Good luck Terry Miles




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