---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/16/07: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:18 AM - Re: Z-19 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 06:30 AM - Dual HSI/CDI wiring question (Eric Parlow) 3. 06:42 AM - Re: Landing Taxi lights wig wag (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:47 AM - Flap switch (Dale Fultz) 5. 06:48 AM - Re: Connecting Shieled Wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:51 AM - jumping on the big iron bird again. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 08:33 AM - Re: Flap switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 08:36 AM - Re: Flap switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 08:38 AM - Re: Connecting Shieled Wires (Ron Quillin) 10. 08:45 AM - Fw: switching from Z-11 to Z-13 (Michael T. Ice) 11. 09:01 AM - Re: Flap switch (Dale Fultz) 12. 09:45 AM - Re: Garmin 430 transmitter problem (David Abrahamson) 13. 03:40 PM - Re: best contactor reliability -- mechanical, solid state, or ma (Eric M. Jones) 14. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Garmin 430 transmitter problem (Michael W Stewart) 15. 05:36 PM - Garmin GA 27c low profile GPS Antena Cable extension? (Jeffrey W. Skiba) 16. 08:28 PM - Re: Re: GTX327 power switching (Michel Creek) 17. 08:39 PM - Figure z-19 (Ernest Christley) 18. 09:04 PM - KMD 150 Install manual needed (JAMES BOWEN) 19. 10:41 PM - Re: RV-List: KMD 150 Install manual needed (Steve) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 At 08:39 PM 7/15/2007 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks a million Bob, my days with the Saturn V moon rocket, triple module >redundancy, sometimes rears it's head. Think I will go with your original >diagram. >Paul Understand. I have a client right now that believes it is better to have two position sensors for a flap system than just one. I'm trying to help him understand that if you can design your system to be tolerant of any single failure then one sensor by definition will suffice. If failure of the pilot to KNOW flap position at all times creates a strong potential for hazard, then you need THREE sensors and a validity evaluation system that compares all three data values, tosses out the one that is bad and annunciates the failure (cause we're now down to two . . . one more sensor crap and we're toast). Two sensors in a fail-proof approach is not sufficient. Figure Z-19 presupposes that all the things I think I understood about engine operations are true at the time I crafted the diagram. If some new condition or requirement comes along concerning these automotive conversions (or I mis-understood some feature that has always existed) then some shuffling of the switches and wires may be in order. So I hope that you nor anyone else here on the List believes that Z-19 or any other architecture is somehow sacred, golden, or guaranteed to please for ever and ever amen. It's ALWAYS good to question and to raise your own alarms should you perceive that common understanding of requirements has not yet been achieved. This is why I always query an individual about perceptions of shortfall when changes to the Z-figures are suggested. I and everyone else on the List NEEDS TO KNOW when some new, useful or necessary feature is called for. So please don't take my questioning as some defense of my ideas at the expense of your own. Our common goal should be the elegant solution. Maximize functionality and safety with the minimum of parts count, weight and cost while keeping operating procedures as simple as we can. When things are going sour in the cockpit, you don't want a feature of poor human factors design adding to your misery. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:40 AM PST US From: "Eric Parlow" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dual HSI/CDI wiring question Can the analog GPS/Nav/ILS output from the GNS430 be spliced to drive a HSI(pilot side) and a separate CDI(Co-Pilot side) at the same time? Thanks, ERic-- RV-10, N104EP ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:14 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Landing Taxi lights wig wag At 07:29 PM 7/15/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > >I had a problem today that I cannot solve. >I hooked up the landing and taxi lights through a SSF1 flasher >according to one of Bobs diagrams >The system uses 2 2-10 switches with middle position for wig wag. >The lights are Duckworth 100 watt with the wire from the lamps going >to ground on the last rib along with the grounds for the nav lights >Connected a battery to the main buss and forest of grounds. Don't understand this. Have you grounded lamp fixtures to the airframe locally . . . and then added another wire from vicinity of lamps to the forest of tabs ground block too? You need only one ground. Either from each accessory to the firewall ground block -OR- local grounds to an all metal airframe but not both. >The landing light works but the taxi light fuse (7.5A) blew and the >flasher did not work >I removed the wires from the flasher and again the landing light >worked and the taxi light fuse blew. Fuses blow because of failure of some pieced of equipment on the protected line (rare) or some wiring fault that has produced a hard ground. In this case, the later condition is probable . . . >I reversed the wires at the taxi light with the light filament wire >now going to the switch and the light housing wire going to ground. >The reversed filament wire was connected the the switch wire with a >clip wire and the ground wire was connected to gnd point without the >nav ground. >Everything worked- Taxi-Landing light and wig-wag Yup, the fixture appears to have an internal ground connection to one of the lamp terminals. The wire coming from the lamp housing should go to local ground only. The free filament wire now goes to the switch. >I then connected the wires for final connection using knife splices >and a ring terminal for the ground. >Hooked the battery back up and nothing works not even the landing >light. The fuses are not blown, the panel instruments and nav lights >work. >The flasher buzzes when the landing light is off and the Taxi light >switch moves through the middle position. > >The only difference was hooking the nav ground back up at the same >time. I don't have enough knowledge to know if this could cause the >problem. Assuming your switches are properly identified for terminal connections (see Note 15 on page Z-9) then the only thing that could prevent this system from working as advertised is a wiring error. If your fixtures have internal grounds, you need to make sure that same lead goes to local ground . . . this should stop the fuse blowing thing. I believe that flasher doesn't like to be loaded on one output terminal only. BOTH switches need to be in WW (mid position) for the flasher to function as designed. I think you have one or more wiring errors. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:36 AM PST US From: "Dale Fultz" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Flap switch Can a Cessna flap switch be used instead of the Ray Allan switch for a trim servo??? If so does someone have a wiring diagram?? Thanks Dale ----- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:56 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Shieled Wires At 07:20 AM 7/15/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >At 03:29 7/15/2007, you wrote: >>I'm looking for information about connecting two shielded wires together. >> >>Example inputs from other sources to a PMA 8000 audio panel: >>Should the shields be butt spliced along with the other wires into a one big >>mess? >>Should all wires and shields be connected with Sub D connectors? >>Should the shields be left cut and unattached? >>Are there other methods? > >Without a bit more information, this can have a number of solutions, but I >believe one can safely say regarding microphone lines; > >They should be one continuous run from the microphone source, or jack, to >the input of the amplifier. This does not preclude intermediate >connectors and cable segments, but the shield should remain connected to >itself throughout the length, and should not have connections to other >shields or the airframe except at a single point, the input to the >amplifier at the audio panel/intercom. > >A shield cut and unattached at either end is no longer a shield. Not quite true. Shields should be terminated as shown in the installation wiring diagrams. Sometimes one end only is connected, sometimes both ends. Follow directions. The only time a shield ceases to function as intended is when BOTH ends are floating. If a shielded line needs to be taken through a connector, give the shield it's own pin. I.e., a shielded, twisted trio of wires takes 4 pins to transition a connector. Don't struggle to bring shields "up tight" against the back of a connector housing. Exposing 2-3 inches of "protected" conductors on a connector installation is no big deal. Make all your shield terminations outside the connector backshell so that only individual strands of wire pass through the strain relief and into the connector. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:42 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: jumping on the big iron bird again. Will be off-list for the rest to today thru Wednesday this week. I'll leave things in the capable hands of others who have demonstrated their skills as teachers . . . and others who have yet to discover that they have the gift too. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flap switch At 09:46 AM 7/16/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Can a Cessna flap switch be used instead of the Ray Allan switch for a >trim servo??? If so does someone have a wiring diagram?? Thanks Dale >----- Cessna has lots of flap switches. One of them may be what you're looking for but you can make one really easy too. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Flap_Switch.jpg Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flap switch At 09:46 AM 7/16/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Can a Cessna flap switch be used instead of the Ray Allan switch for a >trim servo??? If so does someone have a wiring diagram?? Thanks Dale >----- Cessna has lots of flap switches. One of them may be what you're looking for but you can make one really easy too. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Flap_Switch.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS1.JPG http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS2.JPG http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/FLAPS3.JPG http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/Toggle_Shaft.jpg Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Shieled Wires From: Ron Quillin At 07:50 7/16/2007, you wrote: My poor wording: "unattached at either end" = not connected at either end. I think we totally agree. Ron. >>A shield cut and unattached at either end is no longer a shield. > > Not quite true. Shields should be terminated as shown in > the installation wiring diagrams. Sometimes one end only is > connected, sometimes both ends. Follow directions. The only > time a shield ceases to function as intended is when BOTH > ends are floating. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:31 AM PST US From: "Michael T. Ice" Subject: Fw: AeroElectric-List: switching from Z-11 to Z-13 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael T. Ice Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:04 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: switching from Z-11 to Z-13 Hello, I have already wired my aircraft with the Z-11 schematic. But now I am switching to E-mags ( 1 P-Mag & 1 E-mag) and need to rewire towards the Z-13 schematic. My questions are: Can the 2-10 switch be used as the Dc Power master switch instead of the 2-3. I see in the Z-13 the 5 A Fld Alt is on the other side of the switch. Why? Can I just leave the 2-10 in place as wired in the Z-11 and will it work for the 2-3 in the Z-13? I see the 2-10 switches in the Z-11 that were used for mag switches are now 2-5 in the Z-13. Is there any way to use the 2-10's, or are the 2-5's so different that I have to use them? Or should I just order the new switches from B&C and wire them in like the Z-13? I also see that the mags in the Z-11 required shielded wire. It looks like the E-Mags don't require shielded wire. Is that correct? Why? Thank you, Mike Ice Anchorage, Alaska ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:53 AM PST US From: "Dale Fultz" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flap switch Thanks Bob,, Now would you have a wiring diagram to wire the switch up ,, instead of using the rocker switch that came with the servo??? Thanks Dale ----- Original Message ----- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:42 AM PST US From: David Abrahamson Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin 430 transmitter problem I use blade-type ATO fuses and by simply removing the com circuit's fuse and replacing it with a new one, the problem went away. The one I removed ohmed out like all the others, so I suspect it was perhaps that the fuse had dislodged itself slightly in the fuse block. Checking the most accessible and simplest issue seems to have worked. Thanks for all the feedbacks. David ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:27 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: best contactor reliability -- mechanical, solid state, or ma From: "Eric M. Jones" I just ran across these. They should do. They are a little more expensive than the GX-11 or the Blue Sea 9012 (Kilovac EV200aaana). Frankly I can't see an advantage unless you find them on sale. http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en_g9ea_ec.pdf Interesting note on coil suppressor from the Omron data sheet: They caution that a varistor or a Zener plus diode should be used as a protective circuit for the coil. "Using a diode alone will reduce the switching characteristics." Never use diodes for this purpose on relays, especially contactors. "What the West really has to offer is honesty. Somehow, in the midst of their horrid history, the best among the Gaijin learned a wonderful lesson. They learned to distrust themselves, to doubt even what they were taught to believe or what their egos make them yearn to see. To know that even truth must be scrutinized, it was a great discovery.... " -- David Brin, "Dr. Pak's Preschool" -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124190#124190 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin 430 transmitter problem From: Michael W Stewart HA! Great. I figured that was it. That darn fuse cost me a fortune to figure out. List works again! Mike do not archive David Abrahamson To Sent by: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com owner-aeroelectri cc c-list-server@mat ronics.com Subj ect AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin 43 0 transmitter problem 07/16/2007 12:44 PM Please respond to aeroelectric-list @matronics.com I use blade-type ATO fuses and by simply removing the com circuit's fuse and replacing it with a new one, the problem went away. The one I removed ohmed out like all the others, so I suspect it was perhaps that the fuse had dislodged itself slightly in the fuse block. Checking the most accessible and simplest issue seems to have worked. Thanks for all the feedbacks. David ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:49 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin GA 27c low profile GPS Antena Cable extension? I have a Garmin GA 27c low profile GPS Antenna [ Part number 010-10052-05 ]and I need to extend the antenna lead. Has any one done this before and how did it work out? What did you use? Per the box it has: 8 feet of RG174 cable with MCX connector I would like to use rg-400 but do not know how to connect them properly, the GPS does use the small MCX connector, anybody have a source for that? plus I would need a disconnect at the wing root. Thanks in advance Jeff. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:43 PM PST US From: "Michel Creek" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: GTX327 power switching I'm having the same problem as Sam as detailed in his email below. Does anyone have a solution to this? I've tried adjusting contrast/brightness with no affect. Thanks, Mike Creek -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of phd1993 Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: GTX327 power switching I have been bench/panel testing my GTX327 during cable assembly prior to final installation in my panel and I can confirm the Pin 1 / Pin 15 configurations. Now my question - if I have power supplied via Pin 15 and ground on Pin 25 WITHOUT connecting either the transponder antenna or the altitude encoder what should the GTX327 display at power on? How about power on while holding down the FUNC button. All I am getting is the "backpanel" illuminated with no other display items. Is this proper? Or do I need to connect either the antenna, the altitude encoder, or both before I start seeing any items displayed on the panel? Feedback appreciated. Thanks, Sam H. Zenith 701 kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=74927#74927 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:15 PM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: AeroElectric-List: Figure z-19 Z-19 doesn't appear to be on my Aeroelectric CD, and I can't find it online. Would anyone happen to have a close approximation in DXF format that they'd like to share? DWG appears to be a more advanced file format with the ability to add 3D information. Most of the lower rung/open source CAD programs don't like it (maybe because the company added closed, proprietary extensions that can't be read without paying Autodesk a royalty). I'm using Kubuntu, and Wine isn't working well with the Windows programs on the CD. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:24 PM PST US From: "JAMES BOWEN" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KMD 150 Install manual needed I need an install manual for my KMD 150. Thanks in advance, Jim Bowen _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:25 PM PST US From: Steve Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: KMD 150 Install manual needed JAMES BOWEN wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "JAMES BOWEN" > > I need an install manual for my KMD 150. Thanks in advance. > Jim Bowen I thought about scanning my copy and sending it to you, then thought "Hmmmm, wonder what Google says?" (I've tried before to find it soft copy on the web, but never had any luck.) Both the installation manual and pilot's guide are here: http://www.seaerospace.com/king/kmd150.htm Steve (now with a soft copy IM to back up my hard copy!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.