AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 07/30/07


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:07 AM - Re: Question about B&C Regulators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 06:17 AM - Re: Question about B&C Regulators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 07:57 AM - Re: Question about B&C Regulators (Alan Adamson)
     4. 07:59 AM - Re: Question about B&C Regulators (Alan Adamson)
     5. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: The hottest T-shirt at Oshkosh (Michael T. Ice)
     6. 10:26 AM - Re: Thermocouple wire connections (Bob White)
     7. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: The hottest T-shirt at Oshkosh (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 10:42 AM - Re: Question about B&C Regulators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 10:45 AM - Re: Thermocouple wire connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 02:17 PM - Re: Thermocouple wire connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 03:28 PM - Slick Start (Dave Saylor)
    12. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Help with adding an Icom A200 to my existing RT-328 (Matthew Schumacher)
    13. 07:17 PM - Com Antenna (Emrath)
    14. 10:30 PM - Re: Re: Help with adding an Icom A200 to my existing RT-328 (Ed)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:07:04 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Question about B&C Regulators
    At 10:28 PM 7/29/2007 -0400, you wrote: ><aadamson@highrf.com> > >So, I have 2 LR-3C-28's at the moment to be used with a stock continental >100A 28V alternator and an SD-20 backup alternator..... BUT, a friend came >by and told me that B&C recommends that you use the LS-1A instead of the >LR-3C with the SD-20. > >Anyone know why, or if it really matters? I plan to call B&C in the next >couple of days to get their side of the story. I did notice that the LS-1A >doesn't have a huge heat sink like the 28v version of the LR-3C. But I have >no idea what else is different under the hood? I designed both of those regulators. You can use the LR-3 series devices on the SD-20 in 14 volt applications . . . in fact, I believe that's what's currently recommended. However, there is no difference between the SD-20 used in 14 volt systems and 28 volts systems . . . only the regulator. To keep from burning the SD-20's 14V field winding by putting 28 volts on it, we crafted a special regulator that is in fact, a 0-15v switchmode power supply. The output of the power supply is steered by the 28V regulator electronics to achieve the desired bus voltage but with a hard upper limit of 15V applied to the field such that it's never in danger of smoking. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:17:13 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Question about B&C Regulators
    At 09:13 PM 7/29/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >Alan, I believe that the issue is How the SD20 is being used, I'm building >to a Z14 and as I understand it, if you are planning on having both >alternators continuously online at the same time you use the regulators >you have. If you plan on only using the SD20 as a back-up then the other >regulator is the choice. Close . . . but the regulator for using the SD-20 as a same-bus standby is a little different yet. The low voltage warning section of the SB series regulators is replaced with an overload detection and annunciation system. When the SD-20 shares a common bus with another alternator, it's set-point is about 1.0 volts BELOW that of the main alternator. When the main alternator fails or is turned off, the bus voltage sags and the SD-20 comes alive in an attempt to pick up all present loads. IF those loads exceed 20A, the ALTERNATOR LOADED light flashes. The pilot then reduces loads to stop the flashing which indicates that the SD-20 is no operating with designed limits. I believe that installation instructions and operating details for the LR, LS and SB series regulators are available from B&C's website. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:57:41 AM PST US
    From: "Alan Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
    Subject: Question about B&C Regulators
    Deems, thanks for the note. I would agree with your comments if they said to use the SB1B-28, but we are talking about the LS-1A. The justification that B&C used with my friend was that this regulator helps the SD-20 make 28 volts??? Ok, so is there some magic that allows it to make those volts at lower RPM settings? That would be a good thing I suppose... I'll be calling B&C today to find out more. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:13 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about B&C Regulators --> <deemsdavis@cox.net> Alan, I believe that the issue is How the SD20 is being used, I'm building to a Z14 and as I understand it, if you are planning on having both alternators continuously online at the same time you use the regulators you have. If you plan on only using the SD20 as a back-up then the other regulator is the choice. Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Alan K. Adamson wrote: > --> <aadamson@highrf.com> > > So, I have 2 LR-3C-28's at the moment to be used with a stock > continental 100A 28V alternator and an SD-20 backup alternator..... > BUT, a friend came by and told me that B&C recommends that you use the > LS-1A instead of the LR-3C with the SD-20. > > Anyone know why, or if it really matters? I plan to call B&C in the > next couple of days to get their side of the story. I did notice that > the LS-1A doesn't have a huge heat sink like the 28v version of the > LR-3C. But I have no idea what else is different under the hood? > > Alan > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:59:52 AM PST US
    From: "Alan Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
    Subject: Question about B&C Regulators
    Bob, Thanks for the note. So am I to assume from your comments, that in a dual alt, dual 24v battery system, that I should use the LS-1A with the SD-20 *instead* of another LR-3C-28? Are you also saying that the LR-3C-28 *could* damage the SD-20 if used with it? Thanks again, Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:07 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about B&C Regulators --> <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 10:28 PM 7/29/2007 -0400, you wrote: ><aadamson@highrf.com> > >So, I have 2 LR-3C-28's at the moment to be used with a stock >continental 100A 28V alternator and an SD-20 backup alternator..... >BUT, a friend came by and told me that B&C recommends that you use the >LS-1A instead of the LR-3C with the SD-20. > >Anyone know why, or if it really matters? I plan to call B&C in the >next couple of days to get their side of the story. I did notice that >the LS-1A doesn't have a huge heat sink like the 28v version of the >LR-3C. But I have no idea what else is different under the hood? I designed both of those regulators. You can use the LR-3 series devices on the SD-20 in 14 volt applications . . . in fact, I believe that's what's currently recommended. However, there is no difference between the SD-20 used in 14 volt systems and 28 volts systems . . . only the regulator. To keep from burning the SD-20's 14V field winding by putting 28 volts on it, we crafted a special regulator that is in fact, a 0-15v switchmode power supply. The output of the power supply is steered by the 28V regulator electronics to achieve the desired bus voltage but with a hard upper limit of 15V applied to the field such that it's never in danger of smoking. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:52:11 AM PST US
    From: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
    Subject: Re: The hottest T-shirt at Oshkosh
    George, I for one like your attitude. Your the canary in the coal mine for me. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:54 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: The hottest T-shirt at Oshkosh Did not make Oshkosh but there is spirit. Super! Of coruse its the hottest Tee-shirt. I LOVE IT, but I want a cut of sales. Figure @ $50 a pop they'll sell out. I think its hilarious. Some one has a sense of humor, which is refreshing. Life is too short and this is suppose to be fun. Peace. My next shirt will be a big read circle with a diagonal & the word CROWBAR, ha ha. The Real GMCJETPILOT PS I want Tee-shit with the NOT crossed out. LOL >From: "Bruce Gray" >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: The hottest T-shirt at Oshkosh > >A green t-shirt with block letters that said, "I am NOT gmcjetpilot". > >Bruce ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Choose the right car based on your needs.


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:26:41 AM PST US
    From: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
    Subject: Re: Thermocouple wire connections
    On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:51:06 -0400 "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> wrote: > > I've finally installed all my VM-1000 engine monitor harness and have only > to connect the it from the CPU to the pigtails on the EGT/CHT thermocouple > probes. Vision supplied the probes with about 2 feet of wire and faston > connections terminating them. I have to install fastons on the CPU harness > that connects to the probes and was going to use the fastons that Vision > supplied but they do not have the second crimp sleeve that provides > insulation strain relief. I have a bunch of the strain relief type fastons > but not sure if I should use them because it may mess up the readings due to > possible metallic connection mismatches between the thermocouple wire. > > The fastons Vision supplied look to be coated with solder but I don't really > know if the underlying material is copper or something else (scratching the > surface doesn't yield a copper color underneath). The letters "T&B" are > stamped on these terminals. From looking at Bob's book it doesn't appear > that this is the way that these thermocouple wires should be spliced but I > assume that most Vision Micro buyers use what Vision supplies to assemble > their systems. I don't have a problem with this method but would prefer the > strain relief terminals if they will work. Otherwise I'll go ahead and > splice them with the supplied terminals. > > > Anyone else with VM-1000 have any thoughts? Can I use the strain relief > terminals or do I need to use the Vision terminals? The strain relief > terminals were purchased at a boat supply store so I suspect they are solder > coated copper, may not work for this application (the letters "I2" and "MX" > are stamped on these terminals). Also, the Vision fastons on the probe > pigtails are not encased in plastic but are installed with some heat shrink > around the crimp end. Can't tell if they are soldered but the install > manual doesn't say anything about soldering at the harness ends, just > crimping the terminals. Would I have to solder these for any reason? Any > words of wisdom Bob? Have you returned from OSH yet? Thanks. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Will it ever end? > > Hi Dean, I don't have the VM-1000, but I do make quite a few TC extensions. There are specialized connectors for connecting TC wires together. They are large, expensive, and not necessary for the type measurements made by an EGT probe. Soldering EGT wires is a tricky business. You will need a very aggressive flux if you can do it at all. Crimp connections are preferred and are just fine. I would use the PIDG connectors from AMP because I know the quality. I have used the shrouded connectors which don't have a metal ring to support the wire. I used them because the particular EGT probe had them installed. I used shrink tubing to build up the OD of the insulation for a snug fit in the back of the connector and another shrink tubing over the outside of the connector and the shrink tubing on the wire. To minimize errors caused by the dissimilar materials, keep the connectors on both wires at the same moderate temperature. Bob W. PS: I have a Tru Trak ADI for sale on ebay. Item 160142910426 for anyone who might be interested. -- N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:41:35 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: The hottest T-shirt at Oshkosh
    At 07:50 AM 7/30/2007 -0800, you wrote: > >My next shirt will be a big read circle with a diagonal & >the word CROWBAR, ha ha. > >The Real GMCJETPILOT Then you'll need to add Plane Power to your list of wizards who went to the 'dark side'. Seems their OV protection system is a simple, dead-short across the field breaker when the bus voltage exceeds the designed set point. Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:42:53 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Question about B&C Regulators
    At 10:59 AM 7/30/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Bob, > >Thanks for the note. > >So am I to assume from your comments, that in a dual alt, dual 24v battery >system, that I should use the LS-1A with the SD-20 *instead* of another >LR-3C-28? Correct. >Are you also saying that the LR-3C-28 *could* damage the SD-20 if used with >it? ABSOLUTELY guaranteed that it would damage the SD-20. Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:45:25 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Thermocouple wire connections
    > Can't tell if they are soldered but the install >manual doesn't say anything about soldering at the harness ends, just >crimping the terminals. Would I have to solder these for any reason? Any >words of wisdom Bob? Have you returned from OSH yet? Thanks. > >Dean Psiropoulos >RV-6A N197DM >Will it ever end? One is seldom wrong for following the manufacturer's instructions. They've been building and selling these products for a very long time. Be wary of dire predictions and helpful suggestions to the contrary unless supported by more than reverence for someone's traditions. At the end of the day, repeatable experiments supported by simple-ideas rule the day. If you were interested in harnessing the thermocouple leads and assuming 20AWG wire or smaller, you could consider making the engine to instrument harness transition in a D-sub connector with machined pins. This too is a repeatable experiment. Bob . . .


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:17:01 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Thermocouple wire connections
    At 12:43 PM 7/30/2007 -0600, you wrote: <nuckollsr@cox.net> Can't tell if they are soldered but the install manual doesn't say anything about soldering at the harness ends, just crimping the terminals. Would I have to solder these for any reason? Any words of wisdom Bob? Have you returned from OSH yet? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Will it ever end? One is seldom wrong for following the manufacturer's instructions. They've been building and selling these products for a very long time. Be wary of dire predictions and helpful suggestions to the contrary unless supported by more than reverence for someone's traditions. At the end of the day, repeatable experiments supported by simple-ideas rule the day. Oh yeah, I forgot to add that just about anything you do that contributes to measurement errors will be canceled out as long as you do exactly the same thing to the other side assuming that both "contamination" exist at the same temperature. Sticking a splice in one lead has the potential for creating one or more new thermocouples but equally contaminating couples in opposing polarities will tend to cancel each other. If you were interested in harnessing the thermocouple leads and assuming 20AWG wire or smaller, you could consider making the engine to instrument harness transition in a D-sub connector with machined pins. This too is a repeatable experiment. Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:28:45 PM PST US
    From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@AirCraftersLLC.com>
    Subject: Slick Start
    Bob, I'm installing a SlickStart (SS) on a left retard breaker mag, no impulse couplings. We're using two locking mag switches. Customer wants to leave the right mag off for starting without the interlock to the left switch you describe. Powering the SS via the push to start is contrary to the instructions, which have it powered from the starter feed. Problem is, I worry that the starter might generate power while spinning down, thus keeping power to the SS after the start switch is released. If I power the SlickStart from the push to start switch, is there any chance I will damage it from high voltage due to the collapsing contactor coil? The coil has a surge diode installed. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 831-750-0284 CL www.AirCraftersLLC.com


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:12:46 PM PST US
    From: Matthew Schumacher <schu@schu.net>
    Subject: Re: Help with adding an Icom A200 to my existing
    RT-328 Bill McMullen wrote: > > Why not just use a 3PDT (three pole) switch and put the headphones on there as well. If the ICOM is your primary radio, you'll note that it also has Aux In inputs. By wiring the other radio to one of these (optionally with a switch), you can monitor both radios at once. Thanks for the reply Bill, yes I could use a 3 pole switch, but there may be causes where I want to monitor two channels at once. Do you (or anyone) know if tying the two headset outputs together will cause the radios to backfeed each other? Also, does anyone know if I got my interlock correct? I see that the RT-328 radio has "Ant Interlock" and "Mike Key" so I'm assuming those are like the "Interlock" and "PTT" the icom radio uses. Other than that the wiring seems pretty straight forward, just want to make sure I get it right. I wonder if there are any good books on the subject. Thanks, schu


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:17:25 PM PST US
    From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
    Subject: Com Antenna
    What are folks using for Com Antennas? I am building a RV-6A and wonder what the merits are between Aircraft Spruces' AV-534, and the bent whips like AV-17 and CI-122 which cost over twice a much. Marty in Brentwood TN


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:30:54 PM PST US
    From: Ed <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Re: Help with adding an Icom A200 to my existing
    RT-328 I wired my coms together with, I think, 150 ohm resisters on each output to prevent backfeed. If I'm transmitting on one and the other is tuned anywhere near, I have to turn it down, but other than that, it works great. I've got the nav audio wired in the same way. I switch the PTT and MIC to the com on which I wish to transmit and use volume control for each audio source. Pax, Ed Holyoke Matthew Schumacher wrote: > >Bill McMullen wrote: > > >> >>Why not just use a 3PDT (three pole) switch and put the headphones on there as well. If the ICOM is your primary radio, you'll note that it also has Aux In inputs. By wiring the other radio to one of these (optionally with a switch), you can monitor both radios at once. >> >> > >Thanks for the reply Bill, yes I could use a 3 pole switch, but there >may be causes where I want to monitor two channels at once. Do you (or >anyone) know if tying the two headset outputs together will cause the >radios to backfeed each other? > >Also, does anyone know if I got my interlock correct? I see that the >RT-328 radio has "Ant Interlock" and "Mike Key" so I'm assuming those >are like the "Interlock" and "PTT" the icom radio uses. > >Other than that the wiring seems pretty straight forward, just want to >make sure I get it right. > >I wonder if there are any good books on the subject. > >Thanks, >schu > > > >




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