Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:24 AM - Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (paul wilson)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Ernest Christley)
3. 06:35 AM - WOW..... (Fergus Kyle)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Eric M. Jones)
5. 07:07 AM - Re: Circuit Breaker Bus Bar (Walter Fellows)
6. 07:55 AM - Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 08:26 AM - Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Speedy11@aol.com)
8. 12:51 PM - Avionics Stack width (Larry James)
9. 01:24 PM - Re: Circuit Breaker Bus Bar ()
10. 01:31 PM - Re: Avionics Stack width (BobsV35B@aol.com)
11. 01:48 PM - Re: Avionics Stack width (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 02:55 PM - Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Peter Harris)
15. 03:48 PM - Re: Manual Battery Switch Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 05:40 PM - Mr. Nuckolls (Terry Watson)
17. 07:20 PM - Vertical Power transcends on Z-19 ()
18. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 08:18 PM - Re: Vertical Power transcends on Z-19 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 08:54 PM - Re: Manual Battery Master Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 11:00 PM - Re: Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH (Peter Harris)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
Clever design. I guess the operating cable is non conductive, or did
I miss something?
Paul
======================
At 11:05 PM 8/7/2007, you wrote:
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
> Ferg, Why not build one? You need to support two 5/16" brass
> studs on an insulating material, say 1/8" thick fiberglass/epoxy
> sheet. Taper switch ends of studs to provide a spherical tip
> with about 1/8th inch radius. Mount studs just far enough apart
> to allow connection with fat-wires . . . about 1" would probably
> do. Build box on terminal board to capture a brass "slider"
> (3/8" square stock) that is pressed against stud tips with
> spring loading from back side. You could rig a Bowden control
> cable to operate the slide (you need about 1/2 to 3/4" stroke)
> for making and breaking the switch. This seems like a project
> that could be crafted with common hand tools. The
> end product would be on the order of 2.5" long, 1.2" wide and
> perhaps 2" tall overall. Perfect the design and we'll do an article
> on it for the website.
>
> Here's a rough layout of a possible design
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9042/9042-100.pdf
>
> The brass stock, parts and spring-stud are McMaster catalog
> items. Side brackets can be aluminum sheet or extrusion.
> Insulating material could be Delrin or perhaps even a
> hard "machinable" wood like walnut or oak.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> Here's a rough layout of a possible design
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9042/9042-100.pdf
>
> The brass stock, parts and spring-stud are McMaster catalog
> items. Side brackets can be aluminum sheet or extrusion.
> Insulating material could be Delrin or perhaps even a
> hard "machinable" wood like walnut or oak.
>
> Bob . . .
>
What a cool idea. This looks like it would be a fun project, Bob. The
only thing I would change would be to make the slider a square piece and
arrange it so that it contacts both taper switch ends at the same time.
I know this real smart guy that taught me that contactors have multiple
break points in order to break the arc faster.
With a couple more of those spring-studs, it should be possible to make
the slider pop off the switch ends at a much higher rate. Just arrange
a few on both sides of the switch ends so that the slider is
cantilevered away when it is slid out, but hits the springs and pushed
against the contacts when slid in.
Dang!! I'm gonna have to make one now. Right after I finish building
several more earbud headsets. I'll never get airplane finished at this
rate (but, I will have the coolest contactor in the universe!!).
Ernest (Is anyone else having this much fun?)
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Bob sent:
Time: 09:09:24 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH
At 10:43 AM 8/6/2007 -0400, I wrote:
> I'm still searching for that elusive device - in an attempt to
avoid
>the cost of an ampere or two of contactor current - which will control a
>primary battery source and another for secondary battery source.
> I have found several which meet one criterion or another, but not
>all:
>[a] should carry as much current as a contactor for that job;
>[b] needs to be an up-down rather than rotary type switch;
>[c] should be on a remote(able) stalk so I can undo the connection to
>remove the instrument panel ;
>[d] cost less than the usual contactor - or at least be competitive.
> I have devised a system to isolate the controls from wandering
>fingers so am not fussy about security. I'm not sure what a "Kill switch"
is
>really.
> Any help would be most appreciated.
Ferg, Why not build one? You need to support two 5/16" brass
studs on an insulating material, say 1/8" thick fiberglass/epoxy
sheet. Taper switch ends of studs to provide a spherical tip
with about 1/8th inch radius. Mount studs just far enough apart
to allow connection with fat-wires . . . about 1" would probably
do. Build box on terminal board to capture a brass "slider"
(3/8" square stock) that is pressed against stud tips with
spring loading from back side. You could rig a Bowden control
cable to operate the slide (you need about 1/2 to 3/4" stroke)
for making and breaking the switch. This seems like a project
that could be crafted with common hand tools. The
end product would be on the order of 2.5" long, 1.2" wide and
perhaps 2" tall overall. Perfect the design and we'll do an article
on it for the website.
Here's a rough layout of a possible design
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9042/9042-100.pdf
The brass stock, parts and spring-stud are McMaster catalog
items. Side brackets can be aluminum sheet or extrusion.
Insulating material could be Delrin or perhaps even a
hard "machinable" wood like walnut or oak.
Bob . . .
'lectric Bob,
What a scheme! I appreciate the work and creativity, but not too sure I am
up to it. I would have to check with my inspector about the reliability
design factors - I see him Friday night so will broach the subject. How do
you find these tidbits? Having a couple of productive buddies may prove the
answer as am 'way behind and have had to move the project up to the hangar
this week as family events will demand the 'factory' back to a bedroom.
Perhaps between us we can come up with a couple of samples.
Thanks again for your diligence. It's always an eye-opener..........
Hugs to Dr. Dee
Ferg
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
> I'm still searching for that elusive device - in an attempt to avoid
> the cost of an ampere or two of contactor current - which will control a
> primary battery source and another for secondary battery source.
> I have found several which meet one criterion or another, but not
> all:
> [a] should carry as much current as a contactor for that job;
> [b] needs to be an up-down rather than rotary type switch;
> [c] should be on a remote(able) stalk so I can undo the connection to
> remove the instrument panel ;
> [d] cost less than the usual contactor - or at least be competitive.
> I have devised a system to isolate the controls from wandering
> fingers so am not fussy about security. I'm not sure what a "Kill switch" is
> really. Any help would be most appreciated.
Ferg,
As Bob says you can build one. but I suggest Flaming River's push-pull battery
switch. Not cheap but you won't have to build it.
If you want to build one, get a scrap type-70 or similar contactor, toss the coil
and use the parts. You can buy high current contacts too, although you can
buy silver and make contacts that will do the job for this application.
Don't neglect the patents online at USPTO. Search high current switch, etc. and
see how people did it.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128076#128076
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Circuit Breaker Bus Bar |
There are some diagrams on spacing you may find useful in the Tony Bingelis
book Sportplane Construction Techniques available from EAA.
On 8/7/07, Scott R. Shook <sshook@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I have lurked in the AeroElectric list for a while and I am coming to
> point in my project where I am going to be planning and building my
> electrical system. I am looking at 12 circuit breakers (spare the groans)
> in a 3 x 4 configuration.
>
> Would anyone be willing to send a photo or many photos of how would one go
> about making a copper bus bar for a configuration like that where the
> breakers are not inline?
>
> Also, what are you doing to insulate the bus bar against accidental
> contact with a ground?
>
> Thank you,
>
> *** *
>
> *Scott R. Shook*
>
> *RV-7A (Building)*
>
> *N696JS (Reserved)*
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
At 04:49 AM 8/8/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Clever design. I guess the operating cable is non conductive, or did I
>miss something?
>Paul
The conventional Bowden push-pull control is obviously
metallic. I'd probably drill the slider and fit a full
length plastic insulator tubing down the hole and craft
insulator washers for each end that would isolate the
wire from the slider. There's a variety of ways to
consider for attaching the wire . . . but your
observations concerning the need for insulation are
correct.
Bob . . .
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
Eric Jones had a neat design for such a device. Contact him at
_emjones@charter.net_ (mailto:emjones@charter.net) .
Stan Sutterfield
>Cheers,
> I'm still searching for that elusive device - in an attempt to
avoid
>the cost of an ampere or two of contactor current - which will control a
>primary battery source and another for secondary battery source.
> I have found several which meet one criterion or another, but not
>all:
>[a] should carry as much current as a contactor for that job;
>[b] needs to be an up-down rather than rotary type switch;
>[c] should be on a remote(able) stalk so I can undo the connection to
>remove the instrument panel ;
>[d] cost less than the usual contactor - or at least be competitive.
> I have devised a system to isolate the controls from wandering
>fingers so am not fussy about security. I'm not sure what a "Kill switch" is
>really.
> Any help would be most appreciated.
Ferg, Why not build one? You need to support two 5/16" brass
studs on an insulating material, say 1/8" thick fiberglass/epoxy
sheet. Taper switch ends of studs to provide a spherical tip
with about 1/8th inch radius. Mount studs just far enough apart
to allow connection with fat-wires . . . about 1" would probably
do. Build box on terminal board to capture a brass "slider"
(3/8" square stock) that is pressed against stud tips with
spring loading from back side. You could rig a Bowden control
cable to operate the slide (you need about 1/2 to 3/4" stroke)
for making and breaking the switch. This seems like a project
that could be crafted with common hand tools. The
end product would be on the order of 3" long, 1.5" wide and
perhaps 2" deep. Perfect the design and we'll do an article
on it for the website.
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Avionics Stack width |
I've measured a few items now and have found some discrepancy in dimensions.
What is the supposed standard panel opening for avionics ?? In the case of
a slide in unit utilizing a tray, this would be the outside width of the
tray. Second, what is the supposed standard slide-in width ?? In the same
case, this would be the inside opening width of the tray; of the outside
width of the avionics unit.
Thanks !!!
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon
Rocket (fuselage / systems)
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Circuit Breaker Bus Bar |
Scott,
If you haven't already considered it, a 20 slot fuse block is easier
and cheaper to setup than breakers. Use a breaker for the alternator and
main buss, but as Bob would say, you can only reset those expensive
critters once - after that you already have a problem. Install the fuse
block where it's accessible to easily change the fuses but not ugly and
you'll have more panel space for other goodies. You'll also have
hundreds of dollars left over from not buying breakers.
If you are dead set on cb's I think the list has already donated
some nice examples.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
R. Shook
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 5:28 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Circuit Breaker Bus Bar
Greetings,
I have lurked in the AeroElectric list for a while and I am
coming to point in my project where I am going to be planning and
building my electrical system. I am looking at 12 circuit breakers
(spare the groans) in a 3 x 4 configuration.
Would anyone be willing to send a photo or many photos of how
would one go about making a copper bus bar for a configuration like that
where the breakers are not inline?
Also, what are you doing to insulate the bus bar against
accidental contact with a ground?
Thank you,
Scott R. Shook
RV-7A (Building)
N696JS (Reserved)
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Avionics Stack width |
Good Afternoon Larry,
Ever since the "Glover Box" radios appeared in the late forties, the
standard width was considered to be six and one quarter inches for us light
plane
types. Unfortunately, it seems that some have fattened up a bit so that it
now
seems better to plan on six and five sixteenths of an inch. If your box is
skinny, you can always add washer or two, but if they are on the fat side,
it
is hard to fix.
In any case, it is best to measure the actual units. Some of them will give
a dimension to within one one thousandth of an inch, but when you measure
them, as you have noted, there can be a fifty thousandth error. Once again
,
measure the actual box if at all possible!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:55:06 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
larry@ncproto.com writes:
I=99ve measured a few items now and have found some discrepancy in di
mensions.
What is the supposed standard panel opening for avionics ?? In the case o
f
a slide in unit utilizing a tray, this would be the outside width of the
tray. Second, what is the supposed standard slide-in width ?? In the same
case, this would be the inside opening width of the tray; of the outside wi
dth of
the avionics unit.
Thanks !!!
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon
Rocket (fuselage / systems)
t
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Avionics Stack width |
Old Bob is right...I measured my stack ( A PS engineering Audio panel
and the rest Garmin) and cut a 6.25" hole in the panel.
Frank RV 7a
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Stack width
Good Afternoon Larry,
Ever since the "Glover Box" radios appeared in the late forties, the
standard width was considered to be six and one quarter inches for us
light plane types. Unfortunately, it seems that some have fattened up a
bit so that it now seems better to plan on six and five sixteenths of an
inch. If your box is skinny, you can always add washer or two, but if
they are on the fat side, it is hard to fix.
In any case, it is best to measure the actual units. Some of them will
give a dimension to within one one thousandth of an inch, but when you
measure them, as you have noted, there can be a fifty thousandth error.
Once again, measure the actual box if at all possible!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:55:06 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
larry@ncproto.com writes:
I've measured a few items now and have found some discrepancy in
dimensions. What is the supposed standard panel opening for avionics ??
In the case of a slide in unit utilizing a tray, this would be the
outside width of the tray. Second, what is the supposed standard
slide-in width ?? In the same case, this would be the inside opening
width of the tray; of the outside width of the avionics unit.
Thanks !!!
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon
Rocket (fuselage / systems)
________________________________
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>
.
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
At 09:22 AM 8/8/2007 -0400, you wrote:
><echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> Here's a rough layout of a possible design
>>
>>http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9042/9042-100.pdf
>>
>> The brass stock, parts and spring-stud are McMaster catalog
>> items. Side brackets can be aluminum sheet or extrusion.
>> Insulating material could be Delrin or perhaps even a
>> hard "machinable" wood like walnut or oak.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>What a cool idea. This looks like it would be a fun project, Bob. The
>only thing I would change would be to make the slider a square piece and
>arrange it so that it contacts both taper switch ends at the same time.
>I know this real smart guy that taught me that contactors have multiple
>break points in order to break the arc faster.
This isn't a contactor. It's a low velocity, sliding
contact switch that depends on PRESSURE at the contact
locations to achieve low resistance connection. This
is a low voltage (12v) low current (10A or less) SWITCHING
task that must handle 200+ amps only after the switch
is static in the close position.
>With a couple more of those spring-studs, it should be possible to make
>the slider pop off the switch ends at a much higher rate. Just arrange a
>few on both sides of the switch ends so that the slider is cantilevered
>away when it is slid out, but hits the springs and pushed against the
>contacts when slid in.
This borrows from some very old technology - the
knife switch. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/knife_switch_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Switches/knife_switch_2.jpg
Two pressure dependent contacts to one moving part. Operating
velocity is not critical but good connection in the pressure
joints is. Hence two spring-studs to maintain force against
the slider . . . flat surface against a spherical surface.
VERY LOW contact area, HIGH pressure.
>Dang!! I'm gonna have to make one now. Right after I finish building
>several more earbud headsets. I'll never get airplane finished at this
>rate (but, I will have the coolest contactor in the universe!!).
>Ernest (Is anyone else having this much fun?)
This is properly called a SPST switch. The
drawing is intended to be a door-opener for
individuals who would like to expend some effort and
acquire some real-time, hands-on experience. At the
same time, it offers at least one compact solution
to the remotely controlled, zero draw battery switch.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
At 07:02 AM 8/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
> > I'm still searching for that elusive device - in an attempt to avoid
> > the cost of an ampere or two of contactor current - which will control a
> > primary battery source and another for secondary battery source.
> > I have found several which meet one criterion or another, but not
> > all:
> > [a] should carry as much current as a contactor for that job;
> > [b] needs to be an up-down rather than rotary type switch;
> > [c] should be on a remote(able) stalk so I can undo the connection to
> > remove the instrument panel ;
> > [d] cost less than the usual contactor - or at least be competitive.
> > I have devised a system to isolate the controls from wandering
> > fingers so am not fussy about security. I'm not sure what a "Kill
> switch" is
> > really. Any help would be most appreciated.
>
>
>Ferg,
>
>As Bob says you can build one. but I suggest Flaming River's push-pull
>battery switch. Not cheap but you won't have to build it.
>
>If you want to build one, get a scrap type-70 or similar contactor, toss
>the coil and use the parts.
The type-70 is a low pressure, large area design where it's not
clear to me how one would utilize the components . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1a.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1b.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1c.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1d.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1e.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1f.jpg
and craft a manually operated mechanism to achieve remote
control.
> You can buy high current contacts too, although you can buy silver and
> make contacts that will do the job for this application.
If one were seeking to craft a high cycle SWITCHING
device, higher quality contacts would be useful as would
some design philosophy that achieves minimum bounce on
closure and rapid contact spreading velocity. In the
case of a battery contactor, going beyond the requirement
to occasionally SWITCH 10A and occasionally CARRY 200A
in a once-per flight-cycle operation seems to have a poor
return on infestment for the effort.
>Don't neglect the patents online at USPTO. Search high current switch,
>etc. and see how people did it.
Good idea . . . but keep in mind that most designs
are at least attempting to improve on an existing design
that exhibits less than ideal service life or performance
as a kilo-operations switch working at or near max
ratings. For our purposes, a wrench used to connect the
battery terminal before flight and disconnect at the
end of flight would have more than adequate electrical
performance. The design goals here are to achieve convenient
manual remote control, light weight, small size and
use materials and techniques readily available to the
greatest number of interested builders. I.e., the elegant
solution.
Bob . . .
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
Bob
If you remove the circlip and fit a bolt threaded to engage at the bottom,
it could be used to pull the circular contactor down to engage with the
copper terminals. Insulate where required.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:02 AM 8/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
<emjones@charter.net>
>
>
> > I'm still searching for that elusive device - in an attempt to avoid
> > the cost of an ampere or two of contactor current - which will control a
> > primary battery source and another for secondary battery source.
> > I have found several which meet one criterion or another, but not
> > all:
> > [a] should carry as much current as a contactor for that job;
> > [b] needs to be an up-down rather than rotary type switch;
> > [c] should be on a remote(able) stalk so I can undo the connection to
> > remove the instrument panel ;
> > [d] cost less than the usual contactor - or at least be competitive.
> > I have devised a system to isolate the controls from wandering
> > fingers so am not fussy about security. I'm not sure what a "Kill
> switch" is
> > really. Any help would be most appreciated.
>
>
>Ferg,
>
>As Bob says you can build one. but I suggest Flaming River's push-pull
>battery switch. Not cheap but you won't have to build it.
>
>If you want to build one, get a scrap type-70 or similar contactor, toss
>the coil and use the parts.
The type-70 is a low pressure, large area design where it's not
clear to me how one would utilize the components . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1a.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1b.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1c.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1d.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1e.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/S701-1f.jpg
and craft a manually operated mechanism to achieve remote
control.
> You can buy high current contacts too, although you can buy silver and
> make contacts that will do the job for this application.
If one were seeking to craft a high cycle SWITCHING
device, higher quality contacts would be useful as would
some design philosophy that achieves minimum bounce on
closure and rapid contact spreading velocity. In the
case of a battery contactor, going beyond the requirement
to occasionally SWITCH 10A and occasionally CARRY 200A
in a once-per flight-cycle operation seems to have a poor
return on infestment for the effort.
>Don't neglect the patents online at USPTO. Search high current switch,
>etc. and see how people did it.
Good idea . . . but keep in mind that most designs
are at least attempting to improve on an existing design
that exhibits less than ideal service life or performance
as a kilo-operations switch working at or near max
ratings. For our purposes, a wrench used to connect the
battery terminal before flight and disconnect at the
end of flight would have more than adequate electrical
performance. The design goals here are to achieve convenient
manual remote control, light weight, small size and
use materials and techniques readily available to the
greatest number of interested builders. I.e., the elegant
solution.
Bob . . .
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Manual Battery Switch Project |
At 09:33 AM 8/8/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>'lectric Bob,
> What a scheme! I appreciate the work and creativity, but not too sure I am
>up to it. I would have to check with my inspector about the reliability
>design factors - I see him Friday night so will broach the subject.
Reliability should not be an issue. The classic master-switch/
battery-contactor has no published reliability statistics. I.e.,
and MTBF "calculation" would be so fraught with assumptions as
to make the exercise meaningless. Even if you purchased a manufactured
manual battery switch, there's no data to allow a quantified
comparison between the legacy switch/contactor combination versus
a manually operated substitute.
At the same time, (repeat after me) "WE craft failure tolerant
systems." I.e., we KNOW that the legacy contactors have failed
at inopportune times for thousands of airplane owners and
we've crafted a plan-B to comfortably accommodate a battery
switch failure whether it's the traditional switch/contactor
approach or a manual switch.
>How do you find these tidbits? Having a couple of productive buddies may
>prove the
>answer as am 'way behind and have had to move the project up to the hangar
>this week as family events will demand the 'factory' back to a bedroom.
>Perhaps between us we can come up with a couple of samples.
I have all the materials in the shop to craft this switch
and access to the machine tools necessary to do a really "professional
looking" job. However, it would be nice if I could demonstrate a
fabrication
process that used nothing more exotic than a table or band saw,
a 1" vertical belt sander and a drill press. It would be a fun
comic book to do. Unfortunately, I've got a ton of things
on my plate right now . . . but who knows.
> Thanks again for your diligence. It's always an eye-opener..........
>Hugs to Dr. Dee
Thank you sir. I'll pass along your compliments.
Bob . . .
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Bob,
We didn't get (or I missed) a report on your Dad. I hope the news was
better.
Terry
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Vertical Power transcends on Z-19 |
Bob,
Just wanted to get your opinion of the integration of Z-19 and
Vertical Powers' V-200 unit. I believe they are charging about 10k for
that package. Do you feel there is enough valued added integrity there
to substantiate that investment? It seems to me that Z-19 already has
enough robustness built into the design. VP does perform some fancy
automation stuff, but that becomes personal rather an integral to the
system. I will be using an external EIS 4000 which is married to the
Subaru and provides all necessary engine parameters. The V-200 supports
just a few of the Subaru engine functions at this time - more planned
for 2008.
http://www.verticalpower.com/docs/VP_Z-19.pdf
Message 18
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
At 08:26 AM 8/9/2007 +1000, you wrote:
><peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>Bob
>If you remove the circlip and fit a bolt threaded to engage at the bottom,
>it could be used to pull the circular contactor down to engage with the
>copper terminals. Insulate where required.
>Peter
Not sure what you mean. The motion in
this device is longitudinal to the "slider", I.e.,
a Bowden wire coming in from the left would be used
to move the slider such that it disengages from
the left-hand stud only. The motion is not intended
to emulated the actions of a contactor. There's
no circlip in the assembly as illustrated. Only
two fixed terminal studs with spherical ends
and a brass-slide bar held against the studs
with spring loaded balls from underneath. The
spring-studs are threaded so that the pressure
and spring-travel can be adjusted.
Bob . . .
Message 19
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Vertical Power transcends on Z-19 |
At 10:18 PM 8/8/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
> Just wanted to get your opinion of the integration of Z-19 and
>Vertical Powers' V-200 unit. I believe they are charging about 10k for
>that package. Do you feel there is enough valued added integrity there
>to substantiate that investment? It seems to me that Z-19 already has
>enough robustness built into the design. VP does perform some fancy
>automation stuff, but that becomes personal rather an integral to the
>system. I will be using an external EIS 4000 which is married to the
>Subaru and provides all necessary engine parameters. The V-200 supports
>just a few of the Subaru engine functions at this time - more planned
>for 2008.
Return on investment is a decision you'll have to
make. What are your proposed design goals for
incorporating the system? Are you wanting to save
time? How would the time "saved" be put to better
use in the conduct of your flight? What's the
cost of ownership? Is there risk that you'll spend
more money over your ownership of the airplane such
that you're going to come out money ahead for
compared to not having incorporated the system?
I have no doubts that the product performs as
advertised (or will if any bugs are detected).
The questions to be asked and answered have to
be based on perception of performance or hazard
shortfall for not having used this system to replace the
traditional hardware and techniques.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
Message 20
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | RE: Manual Battery Master Switch |
Based on the number of on and off-List comments I'm getting
on the proposed design, it's apparent that some folks are
not understanding the operation of the device. I've updated
the drawing at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9042/9042-100.pdf
to show the Bowden control and insulation necessary to complete
the manual battery switch system.
Bob . . .
Message 21
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH |
Bob I was referring to the first of the pics you sent showing a type 70
contactor open for inspection.
It could be used by manually actuating the movement with the use of a bolt.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, 9 August 2007 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: BATTERY MASTER SWITCH
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:26 AM 8/9/2007 +1000, you wrote:
><peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
>Bob
>If you remove the circlip and fit a bolt threaded to engage at the bottom,
>it could be used to pull the circular contactor down to engage with the
>copper terminals. Insulate where required.
>Peter
Not sure what you mean. The motion in
this device is longitudinal to the "slider", I.e.,
a Bowden wire coming in from the left would be used
to move the slider such that it disengages from
the left-hand stud only. The motion is not intended
to emulated the actions of a contactor. There's
no circlip in the assembly as illustrated. Only
two fixed terminal studs with spherical ends
and a brass-slide bar held against the studs
with spring loaded balls from underneath. The
spring-studs are threaded so that the pressure
and spring-travel can be adjusted.
Bob . . .
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|