Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:57 AM - Re: Mr. Nuckolls (Rich Dodson)
2. 03:54 AM - Re: Mr. Nuckolls (Michael W Stewart)
3. 04:08 AM - Re: Mr. Nuckolls (Terry Miles)
4. 05:07 AM - Manual Battery Switch Project ()
5. 05:38 AM - Re: P-mag to VM-1000C tach signal (Robert Feldtman)
6. 06:43 AM - Re: P-mag to VM-1000C tach signal (Eric M. Jones)
7. 07:34 AM - North to Alaska . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:02 AM - Re: P-mag to VM-1000C tach signal (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:48 PM - Re: P-mag to VM-1000C tach signal (Geoff Evans)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Mr. Nuckolls |
Bob,=0A=0AThat is one heck of a tribute. I am terribly sorry for your loss
, but I am eternally grateful that this man was with us to inspire family a
nd friends.=0A=0ASincerely,=0ARich=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom:
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matr
onics.com=0ASent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 10:06:06 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroE
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>=0A=0AAt 05:37 PM 8/8/2007 -0
n" <terry@tcwatson.com>=0A>=0A>=0A>Bob,=0A>=0A>We didn't get (or I missed)
a report on your Dad. I hope the news was=0A>better.=0A>=0A>Terry=0A=0A A
fter 83 years of gracefully playing the cards dealt=0A to him, Dad cashed
out in peace and comfort about 10=0A days ago. It was time and he was re
ady. Dr. Dee and=0A I were with him at the end. He left us with many=0A
admirable goals and recipes for success. He will=0A be missed but will l
ive on in all those who learned=0A from him. Thanks for asking.=0A=0A S
ee:=0A=0Ahttp://aeroelectric.com/articles/In_Memory_of_Robert_L_Nuckolls_Jr
============
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Mr. Nuckolls |
Bob,
So sorry for your loss. Thanks for the great reading tribute to your da
d.
You should know that even from afar, with people you have never met, yo
u
have extended his reach to many with your years of teaching to us.
I read this list every day, always in amazement at what I learn, and yo
ur
patience and focus to teach us. While I still smoke a wire and blow a a
fuse now and again from poor technique, Im always striving to find out
why
and fix it. Voices of Bob in my head from all the readings. Keep it sim
ple,
put in what you need for good reasons whose risk reward can be articula
ted,
and enjoy the fruits of my labor.
I enjoy the fruits of my labor nearly every day on my plane, whose
electrons whizzing about are supporting my lifes great pleasure. And wh
en
im in the soup, and its dark and lonely, im confident my whiz bang stuf
f
will keep alive to get me home each time cause Ive paid good attention
to
this list and your techniques over the years.
Your dads teachings live on and spread far and wide for us here, and my
kids at home. Thanks for all you do. Here's to your dad. Cheers.
Mike Stewart
"Robert L.
Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.ne
To
t> aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent by:
cc
owner-aeroelectri
c-list-server@mat Subj
ect
ronics.com Re: AeroElectric-List: Mr. Nucko
lls
08/09/2007 10:06
PM
Please respond to
aeroelectric-list
@matronics.com
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:37 PM 8/8/2007 -0700, you wrote:
<terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>
>Bob,
>
>We didn't get (or I missed) a report on your Dad. I hope the news was
>better.
>
>Terry
After 83 years of gracefully playing the cards dealt
to him, Dad cashed out in peace and comfort about 10
days ago. It was time and he was ready. Dr. Dee and
I were with him at the end. He left us with many
admirable goals and recipes for success. He will
be missed but will live on in all those who learned
from him. Thanks for asking.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/In_Memory_of_Robert_L_Nuckolls_Jr.pdf
Bob . . .
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
Message 3
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Bob
I join my sentiments to you and to yours with so many others, Bob. I sorry
to hear of this. I lost my own father many, many years ago. I was an
electrician by trade.and I still miss him.
Terry Miles
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TSaccio@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mr. Nuckolls
In a message dated 8/9/2007 9:07:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nuckollsr@cox.net writes:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/In_Memory_of_Robert_L_Nuckolls_Jr.pdf
Dear Bob, I read about your Dad's passing. I also read the biography that
you wrote. He seemed like quite a guy. One I wouldn't of minded knowing.
Please accept our sympathy's
Tom & Sandy Saccio
_____
AOL.com.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Manual Battery Switch Project |
8/10/2007
Hello Bob Nuckolls, You wrote: "As I recall you're working with a TC
aircraft.
How did you rewire your airplane?"
Thank you for your follow up interest -- amazing memory considering the many
subjects that you deal with just on this list alone.
The TC aircraft was my friend's 24 volt system Beech Sierra that suffered
first an SBC9401 (-?) black plastic case, base mounted, starter contactor
failure then within a year an SBC 9401 (-?) black plastic case, base
mounted, main battery contactor failure. (Both of these contactors had just
the number 9401 stamped on them even though the starter contactor was
supposed to be a 9401-1).
After much flailing around, false starts, wrong part ordering, and research,
the starter contactor was replaced with a metal case, side mounted, Eaton
Aerospace Controls Division, P/N 6041H190 intermittent duty contactor. The
main battery contactor was replaced with a metal case, side mounted, Eaton
Aerospace Controls Division, P/N 6041H189 continuous duty contactor.
The Beechcraft Aeroclub community and Beechcraft itself is largely ignorant
and bereft of documentation on both the fact that two different types
(intermittent versus continuous duty) of contactors are preferred / required
for these two installations and how the mounting method conversion and
wiring is to be accomplished.
To date I have not located any Beechcraft documentation on how one is
supposed to change either the physical mounting or the wiring from the base
mounted to the side mounted contactors so the local A&P is forced to just
wing it. I haven't given up entirely on trying to wring some further
information on this subject from Beech.
Also the original SBC contactors had a confusing, unmarked array of TVS
devices attached and it is unclear just how the local FBO handled the
installation of any replacement TVS devices. (I am only allowed to "help" to
a certain extent on this TC aircraft that is FBO maintained.)
My comment about rewiring my plane a bit referred to my amateur built
experimental airplane. After my hangar mate suffered a fairly new main
battery contactor failure I moved my transponder electrical power source
from the main avionics bus to the essential avionics bus so that I could
have transponder power for "get home" operation within the Washington DC
ADIZ.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
PS: The few pages of Sierra wiring diagrams that you emailed to me a while
back were absolutely essential in helping to understand the aircraft's
contactor situation -- many thanks again.
----------------------------------- RESPONDING TO -----------------
Time: 07:52:11 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Manual Battery Switch Project
At 08:30 AM 8/9/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
>8/9/2007
> <snip>
>Precisely on target. I personally am aware of three contactor failures
>within the last year. One nearly new, presently available, commonly used
>type, and two decades older ones built by SBC. Two were battery contactors
>and one was a starter contactor.
If one goes into the repair records of aircraft in
existence, there are no doubt dozens of failures
every week . . . and all of those aircraft went to
the shop for replacement from which we may infer that the
failure did not produce a "smoking-hole" event.
While your assertions concerning numbers of observed
failures are no doubt correct, we should be careful
that we do not read meaning into those assertions
that cannot be directly quantified into fleet-wide
risk.
Anecdotal data are often useful but should with
caution. For example, I could say that I'm aware
of dozens of sidewall failures in tires and then
offer a follow-on assertion as to how I reacted to
that information. Now, if I was observing the flow
of flat tires into a tire-store, and the dozens of
sidewall failures were but 1/2 percent of all failures,
then perhaps the sense of urgency to craft an
alternative philosophy for the use of tires.
>I have rewired my plane a bit accordingly.
As I recall you're working with a TC aircraft.
How did you rewire your airplane?
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: P-mag to VM-1000C tach signal |
Makes me think you need a better ground between the mag and the VM unit -
sounds like a floating ground issue. Capacitor won't work, dodn't know why
they suggested that. You could build a separate transistor based trigger
circuit, but you shouldn't have to. Check your ground carefully and don't
rely on the air frame. I'd use a separate large copper wire between the two
bobf
On 8/10/07, Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I've been trying to get my Vision Microsystems VM-1000C to read the RPM
> pulses coming from my P-mag ignition. After much testing, here is where I
> am:
> Testing the ignition *separately* with an oscilloscope determined that
> it is putting out a 5V pulse with a 4ms duration. The bottom of the pulse
> (baseline) is at ground. Some of the pulses are slightly distorted on the
> back end, but I don't think that should matter.
>
> Testing the VM-1000C *separately* with the scope and a frequency generator
> determined that it correctly counts pulses as long as the bottom of the
> pulse (baseline) is within 300mv of ground. If the bottom of the pulse gets
> higher than this, the VM-1000C doesn't see it.
>
> However... When I connect the ignition to the VM-1000C and watch *both of
> them together* with the scope, I see that the VM-1000C raises the baseline
> of the ignition output from 0V to 2.7V. This is obviously way too high for
> it to count, and the RPM indicator thus reads zero.
>
> The ignition people suggested putting a 0.47 microfarad capacitor in
> series between the ignition and the VM-1000C in an attempt to move the
> bottom of the pulse closer to ground. However, the capacitor actually raised
> the bottom of the pulse from 2.7V to 4.8V. That obviously doesn't help.
>
> Can anyone offer me any guidance here? Something in the VM-1000C appears
> to be raising the baseline of the tach signal and preventing the pulses from
> being counted because they never get close enough to ground.
>
> Please reference these images from the scope:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/Ign.jpg shows the ignition
> output by itself.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/ignvms.jpg shows the ignition
> output when connected to the VM-1000C.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/ignvmscap.jpg shows the ignition
> output connected to the VM-1000C through the capacitor.
>
> There must be a simple fix for this...
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Geoff
>
> RV-8 ready to fly for the first time once I get this bug fixed
>
> ------------------------------
> Ready for /body>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: P-mag to VM-1000C tach signal |
I don't think the 0.47 uF cap is right either. There may be a simple way to fix
this thing. The P-mag people should know.
But failing all that, I have just finished a little circuit to convert 0-14.2V
to 0.20 to 1.35 V to feed the R.A.C. bar graph indicator. The circuit uses one
LM324 quad op amp. One of the op amps is configured as a non-inverting summing
amplifier where Vout is the sum of V1+V2-V3-V4. This makes it simple to manipulate
the output with small voltage dividers using the other op amps as buffers.
PCBs are available. Email me offline.
Additionally, for those with a tacho frequency problem, I have designed a tiny
device that converts 3 ppr to 1.5 ppr and maintains pulse width. PCBs are available.
Email me offline.
See attached.
"Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes
less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe.
For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's
not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute con-
tinuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines."
- R. Buckminster Fuller
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128457#128457
Message 7
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| Subject: | North to Alaska . . . |
Dr. Dee and I are getting into the big iron bird
this afternoon to travel to Anchorage Alaska for
a weekend seminar. We've tacked a few days on the end
for some goof-off time too. We'll be back on the List
next Thursday.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: P-mag to VM-1000C tach signal |
At 10:34 PM 8/9/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>I've been trying to get my Vision Microsystems VM-1000C to read the RPM
>pulses coming from my P-mag ignition. After much testing, here is where I am:
>
>Testing the ignition separately with an oscilloscope determined that it is
>putting out a 5V pulse with a 4ms duration. The bottom of the pulse
>(baseline) is at ground. Some of the pulses are slightly distorted on the
>back end, but I don't think that should matter.
>
>Testing the VM-1000C separately with the scope and a frequency generator
>determined that it correctly counts pulses as long as the bottom of the
>pulse (baseline) is within 300mv of ground. If the bottom of the pulse
>gets higher than this, the VM-1000C doesn't see it.
>
>However... When I connect the ignition to the VM-1000C and watch both of
>them together with the scope, I see that the VM-1000C raises the baseline
>of the ignition output from 0V to 2.7V. This is obviously way too high for
>it to count, and the RPM indicator thus reads zero.
>
>The ignition people suggested putting a 0.47 microfarad capacitor in
>series between the ignition and the VM-1000C in an attempt to move the
>bottom of the pulse closer to ground. However, the capacitor actually
>raised the bottom of the pulse from 2.7V to 4.8V. That obviously doesn't help.
>
>Can anyone offer me any guidance here? Something in the VM-1000C appears
>to be raising the baseline of the tach signal and preventing the pulses
>from being counted because they never get close enough to ground.
>
>Please reference these images from the scope:
>
><http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/Ign.jpg>http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/Ign.jpg
>shows the ignition output by itself.
>
><http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/ignvms.jpg>http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/ignvms.jpg
>shows the ignition output when connected to the VM-1000C.
>
><http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/ignvmscap.jpg>http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/ignvmscap.jpg
>shows the ignition output connected to the VM-1000C through the capacitor.
>
>There must be a simple fix for this...
Without knowing more about the input-output characteristics
of the two systems, I'll have to wag it a bit. Sounds like
a classic dc-restoration problem reminiscent of the TV
sync separator designs many moons ago. Take a peek at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/p-Mag_VM-1000_Interface.JPG
I'm fairly certain that the first circuit will work but is more
complex in that it requires power. The second circuit may work
and I'd try that first. If this doesn't get you running,
I'll contact P-mag and VM to see if we can take a more
predictable approach knowing the details of their input
and output circuits.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: P-mag to VM-1000C tach signal |
Bob wrote:
Without knowing more about the input-output characteristics
of the two systems, I'll have to wag it a bit. Sounds like
a classic dc-restoration problem reminiscent of the TV
sync separator designs many moons ago. Take a peek at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/p-Mag_VM-1000_Interface.JPG
I'm fairly certain that the first circuit will work but is more
complex in that it requires power. The second circuit may work
and I'd try that first. If this doesn't get you running,
I'll contact P-mag and VM to see if we can take a more
predictable approach knowing the details of their input
and output circuits.
Bob . . .
=========
After explaining all of this to Tom from E-mag, he (correctly) figured out that
the tach pulse input line on the VM-1000C is biased hi (+5V). According to Tom,
I have an older (1.5 years) version of the P-mag circuit board that uses a
resistor to drive the baseline of the pulse to ground, and it doesn't work when
connected to an instrument that is biased hi.
Newer versions of the P-mag circuit boards use an opto-isolator instead of a resistor
to drive baseline of the pulse to ground. This newer board also has a configurable
option called "open collector mode" that, in conjunction with the
opto-isolator, should make this whole setup work properly. At least that's what
Tom thinks, anyway.
Later today I got an email from an engineer at Vision (JPI). He confirmed that the tach input line was biased hi, and he suggested this circuit to fix it if the ignition couldn't be made compatible: http://home.comcast.net/~n70ge/end_images/Electronic_Ignition_Interface.pdf.
This circuit is slightly different than the ones you drew, Bob, but I assume it
has the same function. Is that correct? Alternatively, Tom from E-mag suggested
using a TTL 7404 driver chip if the upgrade to the P-mag board doesn't work.
Thank for your help.. I can troubleshoot somewhat and throw around big electronic
words, but I'm certainly no circuit designer...
Interestingly enough, the drawing I linked to above from JPI is titled "Electronic
Ignition Interface to EDM900/930/950/VM1000/VM1000C". If all of those instruments
are biased hi on the input line, I wonder why this problem hasn't come
up before with other instrument and/or ignition combinations.
-Geoff
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