AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 08/19/07


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:24 AM - My vacuum instruments for sale on eBay (Harley)
     2. 05:50 AM - Re: Coax Diameter (Emrath)
     3. 07:57 AM - Re: Coax Diameter (paul wilson)
     4. 08:50 AM - Re: Headset plug polarity (Brooke Wolf)
     5. 09:36 AM - Re: Headset plug polarity (Ron Quillin)
     6. 11:08 AM - Re: Coax Diameter (Gaylen Lerohl)
     7. 11:11 AM - Re: Headset plug polarity (Charlie England)
     8. 12:28 PM - Re: strobe whine noise (Miskelly, Francis G)
     9. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Voltage Regulator (Hoffmann D- Remscheid)
    10. 01:45 PM - Switch ratings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 01:53 PM - Re: strobe whine noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    12. 01:57 PM - Re: B&C SD 8 Alternator (James Foerster)
    13. 03:20 PM - Bright star on the horizon - OV protection and anytime control (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    14. 05:20 PM - Re: Bright star on the horizon - OV protection and anytime control (Tim Lewis)
    15. 06:39 PM - PMag Preflight Check (Speedy11@aol.com)
    16. 07:48 PM - Re: Bright star on the horizon - OV protection and anytime control (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:24:26 AM PST US
    From: Harley <harley@AgelessWings.com>
    Subject: My vacuum instruments for sale on eBay
    Good Morning... After the successful ending of my iPaq/Anywhere Map listing on eBay, and the decision to finally join the high technology age and have an all electric panel, I am now offering the entire vacuum system that I no longer need on eBay starting today. After these end in 10 days, this should be the end of my Long EZ related eBay listings for some time! I hope! <G> I've already replaced the directional gyro with an electric one, and only have the artificial horizon left to replace, but I am working on that. So, anything that has to do with the vacuum system is going, including the AH. Here are direct links to the eBay pages where I am offering them...note that there is no reserve, and I am starting them all ridiculously low, so they WILL sell, and someone will get real bargains. All the details about each one and their conditions and photos are in their respective eBay listings. You can also link to each item at the bottom of each listing. Artificial Horizon http://tinyurl.com/2d269m Directional gyro http://tinyurl.com/yq5mgg Vacuum Pump http://tinyurl.com/yp9gkf (The description includes a link to a great tutorial on vacuum pumps) Vacuum Gage http://tinyurl.com/22tl5r Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ Airport, Hangar 29 Canandaigua, NY


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:50:44 AM PST US
    From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Coax Diameter
    Thanks Ken Marty Time: 05:50:43 PM PST US From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Coax Diameter My RG-400 measures 0.195" diameter. Emrath wrote: > >Can someone advise me what is the diameter of RG400 and RG58 Coax? I'm >planning antenna runs for my RV6A and looking to see how big my wire >bundle may be getting. Thanks. > > >Marty in Brentwood TN


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:57:43 AM PST US
    From: paul wilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
    Subject: Re: Coax Diameter
    They are essentially the same. For sure interchangeable. Paul ========= At 04:29 PM 8/18/2007, you wrote: > >Can someone advise me what is the diameter of RG400 and RG58 Coax? I'm >planning antenna runs for my RV6A and looking to see how big my wire bundle >may be getting. Thanks. > > >Marty in Brentwood TN > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:50:40 AM PST US
    From: "Brooke Wolf" <bwolf1@tds.net>
    Subject: Re: Headset plug polarity
    Hi Mark I am totally deaf in one ear and always have trouble with stereo headsets. I feel like I am only hearing half the world! Do you know of a commercially available adapter that would ALWAYS combine the signals on a standard aviation headset? While we are on the subject.....it is even a bigger problem with my MP3 player. It has a little 1/8 (?) inch stereo jack. Do you know of any full time, stereo to mono, adaptors for that? Thanks Brooke ----- Original Message ----- From: Fiveonepw@aol.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:41 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Headset plug polarity In a message dated 08/17/2007 10:06:34 PM Central Daylight Time, ceengland@bellsouth.net writes: There isn't really any practical way to wire a stereo connector for both stereo & mono. You can set it up with a switch, but then you're dependent on remembering to set the switch correctly. >>> My understanding as well. I installed mono & stereo jacks on my plane using a switching mono plug that ties L&R channels together when the plug is inserted, and used a spring-loaded cover on the stereo jack with a lable stating "Stereo Only" on it. One way to git a kitty rug! Diagram available on AutoCAD if interested... From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:36:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Headset plug polarity
    From: Ron Quillin <rjquillin@gmail.com>
    At 08:47 8/19/2007, you wrote: >I am totally deaf in one ear and always have trouble with stereo >headsets. I feel like I am only hearing half the world! Do you >know of a commercially available adapter that would ALWAYS combine >the signals on a standard aviation headset? While we are on the >subject.....it is even a bigger problem with my MP3 player. It has >a little 1/8 (?) inch stereo jack. Do you know of any full time, >stereo to mono, adaptors for that? > >Thanks > >Brooke One "always works" solution I've seen on at least one commercial headset was the inclusion of a switch somewhere on/in the headphone or cable that took the wire normally connected to the ring of the connector and electrically moved it to parallel the wire connected to the tip. Both earphone transducers were then parallel on the tip, with the common return on the sleeve. Downside; the impedance seen by the intercom/radio driving the headphones in now only half what it was and this may be a problem, but generally far less than shorting out the left and right outputs of some amplifier to one another. A SPDT (3-terminal) switch mounted in an ear cup could easily suffice. Ron Q.


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:08:35 AM PST US
    From: "Gaylen Lerohl" <lerohl@gctel.net>
    Subject: Re: Coax Diameter
    The Mil Spec RG-58 and RG-400 we sell is about .195" or just a bit over 3/16". http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Coaxial%20Cable.html Regards, Gaylen Terminaltown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 5:29 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Coax Diameter > > Can someone advise me what is the diameter of RG400 and RG58 Coax? I'm > planning antenna runs for my RV6A and looking to see how big my wire > bundle > may be getting. Thanks. > > > Marty in Brentwood TN > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:11:43 AM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Headset plug polarity
    Brooke Wolf wrote: > Hi Mark > > I am totally deaf in one ear and always have trouble with stereo > headsets. I feel like I am only hearing half the world! Do you know of > a commercially available adapter that would ALWAYS combine the signals > on a standard aviation headset? While we are on the subject.....it is > even a bigger problem with my MP3 player. It has a little 1/8 (?) inch > stereo jack. Do you know of any full time, stereo to mono, adaptors > for that? > > Thanks > > Brooke > Google is your friend. http://www.google.com/search?num &hl=en&q=mono+to+stereo+headphone+adaptor&btnG=Search Charlie


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:28:52 PM PST US
    Subject: strobe whine noise
    From: "Miskelly, Francis G" <f.miskelly@imperial.ac.uk>
    Thanks Ken and Bob. I'll try Bob's suggestion of connecting both +ve and -ve of the battery to the radio later this week Bob - my radio has a +ve from the power bus and a -ve which grounds at the firewall ground bus. I suspect it also grounds locally - Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sun 19/08/2007 07:33 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe whine noise <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 08:53 AM 8/18/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi Frank > >Yes the filter is in line with the strobe power after the power switch. > >My best theory is similar to Matt's and that the noise is coming in via >the common grounds. It is a metal airframe and the strobe power supplies >are internally grounded to their metal cases, same as the radio and the >intercom. The headphone jacks are isolated from ground. Everything except >the strobes has a ground wire to the forrest of tabs on the firewall. >Since the ground connection on the filter has no effect, it seems to me >that it can't be a capacitor in the filter that is helping. And yet >reversing the filter leads does make a difference which seems an unlikely >result to me. I don't think there can be anything else other than a choke >(inductor) in the filter?? > >If I was still building I think I would try electrically insulating the >strobe power supplies from the airframe with plastic washers and bolts. I >seem to recall opening the aeroflash units when I installed them but I >must have decided that their grounds could not be easilly separated from >the case, or it did not seem worth the effort at the time. The strobe >heads are mounted in fibreglass wingtips so they should already be >isolated from the airframe. Hmmmm . . . grounds contribute to noise issues ONLY when sensitive potential victims share TWO or more ground paths. If you have immediate access to the power supplies, try the dry-battery experiment again with the battery located right at the power supply and grounded locally to the power supply. There's something we're not seeing here. I presume that your power supply does ground locally and doesn't have a second wire running all the way to the firewall ground bus???? Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:31:57 PM PST US
    From: "Hoffmann D- Remscheid" <Hoffmann.RS@T-Online.de>
    Subject: Re: Rotax Voltage Regulator
    Rotax rectifier / regulators (and the other motorcycle types too) are not unproblematic. As Gilles found out by direct experiment at nominal power the maximum temperature for the 912 / 914 series R/R is minus 59=B0 Celsius: http://contrails.free.fr/elec_ducati.php This is somewhere in the vicinity of the liquid CO2, please forgive me that I cannot transfer it to Fahrenheit units by heart (;-). I used a standard 3" vent from a computer power unit mounted upon the cooling fins to make the system reliable, as Bob mentioned too. Nevertheless the power output of the 2 phase Rotax alternator is marginal. A friend experienced a trip of the main circuit breaker when operating the flaps at idle. Imagine what would have happened with an electrical dependent 914 engine. His Dynon and his GPS went black too (which is not an issue at the home airport). I am aware that he might beef up his 7Ah battery a little bit, too (;-) Increased use of glass panel instruments with reasonable brightness, strobes etc. would ask for a state-of-the-art generator system for the future. It is not very elegant to use a reduction gear and then mount a generator driven by a belt from the prop axis to increase rpms again. It is more elegant to mount a second generator the crankshaft itself rotating at some 5000rpm at the back of the 912/914, which has been done: http://contrails.free.fr/elec_second_alternateur.php If You can live with one sole generator providing sufficient power, the standard Rotax system should be modified. With the existing standard 2phase coil system I can imagine that a more modern regulator could work not at the frequency determined by engine rotation, but at a higher frequency as a real switching regulator with a corresponding higher efficiency; maybe some inductivity would have to be added. I would however prefer another way of solving the problem. As the rpm is high enough, why not integrate a common 3phase generator into the original site of the Rotax coils? One wound have to redesign the (presumably 9) stator coils for the given dimensions and add a rotor with coil. Add a standard regulator and You are done: greater power mainly because of better efficiency, no high frequency switching problems, standard technology and reliability, no belt to break, no hump in streamlined cowlings. Would be just a standard generator put into the Rotax. By the way: You could even get rid of any sliprings without any electric change at all. Honda has done that on their CB500f motorcycles even some years ago: http://www.autoschrauber.de/content/000058/image/limakomplett.jpg The only disadvantage is the introduction of an air gap. When reliability is an issue, that could be a good trade-off for aircraft use anyway: almost no moving parts J. As Bob already stated, it would be an excellent DIY - project - not without future potential. Richard


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:45:23 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Switch ratings
    Comments/Questions: Bob, I bought a bunch of rocker switches from Aircraft Spruce (P/N 14-100) for use in my RV-6A. The switches have a 120VAC rating of 20 Amps. AC43-13 says that AC ratings are different from DC ratings, so I am concerned as to whether these switches will be adequate for my uses. The highest current devices I am switching are the nav lights at 7.5 Amps. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf and page 2 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Eaton/toggle.pdf and page 2 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/tl_series.pdf Virtually ALL switches have SOME rating at ANY voltage whether AC or DC. The fact that any given switch is marked on the side with 125VAC ratings is a testament to the fact that MORE switches are SOLD into the 125VAC domestic power market than for any other application. There's not enough room on the side of a switch to print ALL of it's capabilities so the fall-back position is to accommodate the greatest number of purchasers. Further, to exceed the published ratings by as much as 50% has little significance to us as OBAM aviation users where the average switch sees perhaps 100 operating cycles per year. The published ratings are for tens of thousands of cycles total. Most switches in personally owned, light aircraft die of effects having more to do with environment and chronological age than from operating stresses. The short answer is, "don't loose any sleep over switch ratings." Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:53:23 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: strobe whine noise
    At 08:23 PM 8/19/2007 +0100, you wrote: >Thanks Ken and Bob. I'll try Bob's suggestion of connecting both +ve and >-ve of the battery to the radio later this week >Bob - my radio has a +ve from the power bus and a -ve which grounds at the >firewall ground bus. I suspect it also grounds locally my suggested experiment was to power the strobe locally and leave it grounded . . . but your assertion raises another possibility. If the radio has an internal ground to chassis, then try simply removing the 'extra' ground to the firewall. You may be experiencing a rare but real situation that was addressed with the last upgrade to Z-15 in particular where the idea of an avionics ground ON THE PANEL was suggested for gathering all grounds for panel mounted devices together at a single point before extending the ground to the firewall. In fact, in the all metal airplane, the panel ground could be tied to the panel as an airframe ground . . . the extra wires to the firewall would not be beneficial. However, Getting all the panel grounds tied together on or near where the radios bring their internal grounds is a good thing to consider. MOST of the time, it's not an issue . . . which goes for the vast majority of installations in light aircraft since day-one. From time to time, situations like yours do arise where the standard cures for filtering and shielding have no effect and sometimes make it worse. When you finally discover the root cause of your noise it will be stone simple and probably have nothing to do with shielding or filtering. Bob . . .


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:57:41 PM PST US
    From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: B&C SD 8 Alternator
    Bob wrote: "if one had LED based position and strobes, then perhaps night VFR on 8A would be quite comfortably managed." This is a good point, and opens up the topic of LED position lights. I have a Jabiru J400, and the alternator is good for 20 amps max, closer to 15 amps continuous. I had planned to put an SD20 alternator on the crank splined shaft to get more total power, but the complication of two alternators and two batteries seemed far too great for what will be mainly a day and night VFR plane with pretensions. The Whelan strobe and position light system has two lamps per wingtip and the strobe supply. Each lamp is two amps, and the strobe supply is 6 amps. Yikes! That is 14 amps for running lights. The gold plated pins that go into DB connectors and also the circular plastic locking connectors are very easy to use, but should not be used for much over 4 amps. I could parallel these critters, but that gets to be more work. By going to the LED system from either Kunzleman or GS, the current draw is between 150 and 300 ma per wingtip. The strobe systems run 2 to 4 amps. Are these wingtip nav lights equivalent to the Whelan incandescent? I have bought both GS and Kunztleman systems for testing. I just made a simple turntable marked off in degrees to rotate the wingtip unit to measure lux output vs. angle. I'm using the nice primer on lighting requirements that Eric Jones posted on his website, Perihelion Designs. http://www.periheliondesign.com/ To measure the light output, I got a lux meter, calibrated in lux. Photographic light meters can be converted from exposure value to lux, but these meters are intrinsically logarithmic in response, and I don't trust it. The horizontal plane measurement will be relatively easy, but the vertical plane may be harder. Eric himself does not believe that present commercial units meet the FARs, but for experimental, they do not need to. Of course, the low power strobes don't, but any strobe is far better than none, and the logarithmic response of the eye comes to our rescue here. James Foerster, J400, wiring.


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:20:18 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Bright star on the horizon - OV protection and anytime
    control >Comments/Questions: Bob - What is the latest wisdom on the crowbar and b-lead >disconnect for the IR alternators? I have read all the Matronics threads, >and it seems that you have withdrawn the Z-24 diagram. >BTW I am a PhD electrical engineer, and I have not seen anyone with the >clarity and good explanations and sheer common sense that you give. >Keep up the good work. Thank you sir for the kind words and validation of my efforts. Here's some background: http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/DIY_Crowbar_OVP_F.pdf Here's the Z-24 replacement in the works . . . http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Adapting_IR_Alternators_to_Aircraft.pdf in the interim, Z-24 is entirely suited to the task as long as the pilot is aware that the alternator should not be turned off while under load except when it's mis-behaving or there is possibility of electrically generated smoke in the cockpit. When AEC9004 becomes available, it will drop neatly into the spot where the crowbar module is used and will allow any time, any conditions, damage free control of the stock, automotive IR alternator. Holler if I can help! Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one wishes to be "world class" at ) ( anything, what ever you do must be ) ( exercised EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:20:52 PM PST US
    From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
    Subject: Re: Bright star on the horizon - OV protection and
    anytime control Bob, Any ETA on availability of the AEC9004? Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 900 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > When AEC9004 becomes available, it will drop neatly into > the spot where the crowbar module is used and will allow > any time, any conditions, damage free control of the > stock, automotive IR alternator. > > Holler if I can help! > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( IF one wishes to be "world class" at ) > ( anything, what ever you do must be ) > ( exercised EVERY day . . . ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ---------------------------------------- > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 06:39:32 PM PST US
    From: Speedy11@aol.com
    Subject: PMag Preflight Check
    Peter and Mike, You both said you do not recommend checking the PMag internal alternator before each flight. Will you please expand on your reasoning? Thanks, Stan Sutterfield I think I would do as you suggest and not check the P-mag internal alternator every flight either. http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:48:04 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Bright star on the horizon - OV protection and
    anytime control At 08:17 PM 8/19/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Bob, > >Any ETA on availability of the AEC9004? > >Thanks, > >Tim Lewis Not definite - this spring's plans for getting the alternator drive stand were interrupted. It's too hot to work in the garage for about the next month. The circuit has been brass-boarded and the first-pass software tested. The BIG questions are to demonstrate an ability to seamlessly control the un-modified IR alternator when running at full load and 11,000 rpm. I'm 98% sure we've got the recipe for success but won't know until it's been run on real hardware. Certainly before the end of the year. Bob. . .




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