---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/24/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Rob Turk) 2. 01:31 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Bill Maxwell) 3. 06:07 AM - Shower of Sparks () 4. 06:15 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life (Ken) 5. 06:42 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:59 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life (Rob Turk) 7. 07:06 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 07:56 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Ernest Christley) 9. 08:46 AM - Radio problem! (Travis) 10. 09:02 AM - Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 11. 09:40 AM - Re: Radio problem! (Matt Prather) 12. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation (Walter Fellows) 13. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 10:18 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation (John W. Cox) 16. 01:52 PM - Re: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation (Mike) 17. 02:59 PM - KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question (David & Elaine Lamphere) 18. 06:39 PM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life (Charlie England) 19. 07:08 PM - Re: KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question (Ron Quillin) 20. 07:21 PM - Re: KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question (Kenneth Melvin) 21. 07:52 PM - Re: KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question (Mike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:15 AM PST US From: "Rob Turk" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article In the radio tube era (when Lycoming engines were designed ;-) this was true for equipment that was shelved for many years, but with modern parts this is not true anymore. Elco's are indeed getting worse when left without power for extended periodes of time, but not in the 'weeks or months' timeframe. All electronic equipment has electrolytic capacitors in them, and if this was the general timespan for elco's then you'd also have to replace your ELT transmitter every so many weeks or months. They have elco's too, and I hope for your sake you do not have to run them every six months... I think the article has been inspired by an over-active marketing department who would like to see you replace perfectly good parts. Can you imagine their revenue increase if their 'rule' would be mandatory? Every owner who doesn't fly their plane for 6 months (winter or so) replacing all electronics with elco's in them? I'm gonna buy me some stock... Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Creek" Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 2:52 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article > > > > The Sept 2007 edition of LPM has an article on strobe lights. I'm curious > as to how accurate the following excerpt is: > > "A strobe power supply that has been left "off" for long periods - weeks > or > months - is subject to eventual failure because the electrolytic > capacitors > used in the device will loose polarity formation. As a rule, a strobe > that > has been inactive for one year can be considered eligible for sudden > failure" > > I have two Areoflash power supplies that were purchased new six months ago > and have since been waiting for final installation. Do I need to > "exercise" > this strobe system to keep it from going bad? > > Thanks, > Mike Creek > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:03 AM PST US From: "Bill Maxwell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article I doubt it. The message is greatly exaggerated. Electrolytic capacitors will eventually lose their capacitor ability if left on a shelf for a long time, but that is many years in my experience. They rely upon being connected in circuit with a voltage across them, so an oxide layer can form on the aluminium foil from which they are constructed. It provides the necesary dielectric layer. However, a capacitor which has lost that layer can be re-formed by connecting them up andprogressively increasing the voltage to the rated working voltage. If the LPM article were correct, every set of strobes would need to carry an "instal by" date. I imagine that most would have a period between manufacture and sale of greater than 12 months. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Creek" Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:52 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article > > > > The Sept 2007 edition of LPM has an article on strobe lights. I'm curious > as to how accurate the following excerpt is: > > "A strobe power supply that has been left "off" for long periods - weeks > or > months - is subject to eventual failure because the electrolytic > capacitors > used in the device will loose polarity formation. As a rule, a strobe > that > has been inactive for one year can be considered eligible for sudden > failure" > > I have two Areoflash power supplies that were purchased new six months ago > and have since been waiting for final installation. Do I need to > "exercise" > this strobe system to keep it from going bad? > > Thanks, > Mike Creek > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:47 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shower of Sparks 8/24/2007 Hello Bob, 1) You wrote: "Perhaps someone on the List has a lead on the details of this systems design and operation." Looking at the patent for the Unison SlickSTART Magneto Start Booster may provide some helpful information. See this link: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=5630384.PN.&OS=PN/5630384&RS=PN/5630384 If that doesn't work just Google "US Patent 5630384" (thanks to Eric). 2) You wrote: "My present understanding of the product suggests that it does not require a second set of points. From this I infer the device is fitted with some intelligence that delays delivery of battery enhanced pulses by some amount which emulates the delayed-timing points common to the earlier system." You are correct that the solid state SlickSTART unit does not require a second set of points, but it does not incorporate any internal delayed timing. To explain: To take best advantage of the SlickSTART's longer duration and higher peak voltage sparking over that provided by just an impulse coupled magneto a magneto with a set of retard breaker points is required. However, if the SlickSTART unit is used with an impulse coupled magneto with a single set of points there will still be an increase in both peak output voltage and sparks per sequence over that which would be provided by the impulse coupling acting alone. A copy of Unison's SlickSTART brochure and its claims can be found at this link: http://www.unisonindustries.com/docs/Slickstartflyer_1493.pdf 3) You wrote: "Assuming my understanding is correct, then I can deduce no reason why the product (or one exceedingly similar to it) wouldn't function with any brand of magneto." I can't offer any technical reason, but can only repeat what I posted earlier on this specific point: "The Unison Service Letter L-1492 (Revision D is current) contains a caution that says using P/N SS1001 with Bendix/TCM magnetos may result in magneto damage and engine stoppage." Unison does provide SlickSTART P/N SS1002 for use with the TCM/Bendix magnetos. Some general comments: A) I have been operating my amateur built experimental aircraft equipped with a TCM IO-240 B9B engine and a SlickSTART P/N SS1001 magneto start booster for over 185 hours. B) The left magneto is a Slick P/N 4310 with a set of retard breaker points. The SlickSTART booster is connected to this magneto. The right magneto is a Slick P/N 4309 direct drive with no impulse coupling or retard breaker points. C) The engine is cranked with the right magneto grounded out during cranking. D) I had difficulty in obtaining enough information on the functioning of the SlickSTART unit from Unison to make my initial wiring installation. This was because all of their installation information was based on the assumption that one was removing a TCM/Bendix "Shower of Sparks" unit and replacing it with the SlickSTART unit. It was difficult to reverse engineer their instructions into a "start from scratch" situation. After a false start response from the Unison marketing department, and follow up detailed correspondence with their tech support people, I was able to make the installation. E) I am very satisfied with the performance of my SlickSTART unit and would highly recommend it to anyone using conventional magnetos instead of electronic ignition in their Lycoming or TCM engine. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ------------------ RESPONDING TO ---------------------------------------------- Time: 06:00:17 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shower of Sparks At 01:40 PM 8/22/2007 -0400, you wrote: >Bob: > > >In discussing Shower of Sparks ignition, you have mentioned Unison Slick >Start. On the Aircraft Spruce webpage, then imply that Slick Start is >only for use with Slick magnetos, not Bendix units. Do you think there s >a technical reason, or that s just certification/lawyer talk? > > >Thanks, Shower of Sparks or "SOS" enhancement to magneto performance still stands out in my mind as one of those extra-ordinary examples of clever design from the CSP era (copper, steel phenolic). Contemporary designers can select from millions of commercial off the shelf parts and in particular, little chunks of multi-legged plastic offering functionality from "simple" amplifiers (20 transistors!) to gigaflop-fast super-processors (tens of thousands of transistors). In the time when Shower of Sparks was crafted, the catalog of materials available to our creative ancestors was limited to a relatively few, rudimentary components. Yet, by understanding the simple-ideas for the materials at hand and the task to be accomplished, devices like . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/ALTREG2.jpg were produced with out-the-door performance on a par with the later . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_SS_Reg_open.jpg or most modern incarnations like . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Alternator_Regulators.jpg Shower of sparks was conceived as a melding of magneto and Kettering ignition systems for battery enhancement of spark energy during low speed operations (cranking). The enhancement had two important features . . . a battery excited, electromechanical "buzzer" that would supply the magneto primary with a rapidly repeating pulse of energy from the battery and a second set of delayed-timing, cranking-points temporarily switched in parallel with the advanced-timing, running-points. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Shower-of-Sparks/ShowerOfSparks.pdf I've not been made privy to the simple-ideas that support functionality of the Slick Start. My present understanding of the product suggests that it does not require a second set of points. From this I infer the device is fitted with some intelligence that delays delivery of battery enhanced pulses by some amount which emulates the delayed-timing points common to the earlier system. Assuming my understanding is correct, then I can deduce no reason why the product (or one exceedingly similar to it) wouldn't function with any brand of magneto. But without the support of the designers or a cognizant technician, we'll not have enough information to craft a definitive answer to your question. Perhaps someone on the List has a lead on the details of this systems design and operation. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:50 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life Yes absolutely but... Several people seemed to have problems shortly after first flight so I personally did power up my strobes every 6 months prior to flying. IIRC aeroflash did recommend that. However I'm sensitive to the issue because I have replaced failed electrolytics in consumer electronics in as little as 3 years from manufacture. Last week it was a little used photocopier. Previous to that was a DVD player. One of my favorite troubleshooting tools has become a little in circuit ESR (equivalent series resistance) tester for capacitors. I think it was a kit from Bob Parker for well under a $100. Ken Bill Maxwell wrote: > > > I doubt it. The message is greatly exaggerated. Electrolytic > capacitors will eventually lose their capacitor ability if left on a > shelf for a long time, but that is many years in my experience. They > rely upon being connected in circuit with a voltage across them, so an > oxide layer can form on the aluminium foil from which they are > constructed. It provides the necesary dielectric layer. However, a > capacitor which has lost that layer can be re-formed by connecting > them up andprogressively increasing the voltage to the rated working > voltage. > > If the LPM article were correct, every set of strobes would need to > carry an "instal by" date. I imagine that most would have a period > between manufacture and sale of greater than 12 months. > > Bill > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Creek" > > To: > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:52 AM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article > > >> >> >> >> The Sept 2007 edition of LPM has an article on strobe lights. I'm >> curious >> as to how accurate the following excerpt is: >> >> "A strobe power supply that has been left "off" for long periods - >> weeks or >> months - is subject to eventual failure because the electrolytic >> capacitors >> used in the device will loose polarity formation. As a rule, a >> strobe that >> has been inactive for one year can be considered eligible for sudden >> failure" >> >> I have two Areoflash power supplies that were purchased new six >> months ago >> and have since been waiting for final installation. Do I need to >> "exercise" >> this strobe system to keep it from going bad? >> >> Thanks, >> Mike Creek >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:06 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article At 05:52 PM 8/23/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > > >The Sept 2007 edition of LPM has an article on strobe lights. I'm curious >as to how accurate the following excerpt is: > >"A strobe power supply that has been left "off" for long periods - weeks or >months - is subject to eventual failure because the electrolytic capacitors >used in the device will loose polarity formation. As a rule, a strobe that >has been inactive for one year can be considered eligible for sudden >failure" > >I have two Areoflash power supplies that were purchased new six months ago >and have since been waiting for final installation. Do I need to "exercise" >this strobe system to keep it from going bad? There have been some excellent responses to this so I'll offer only the following: Articles like this are a disservice to the community because they are non-quantified. I.e., no data followed with logical deductions which lead to repeatable experiments (recipes for success). This topic has been raised many times over the years on the various aviation forums. On one occasion in years past, I scrounged around in my junk box for a high voltage electrolytic capacitor that I KNEW had not been powered up for decades. I connected it to a supply equal to it's rated voltage (450 volts if I recall correctly). On initial power up, the capacitor did what every capacitor does . . . draw whatever current the source will deliver until equilibrium is achieved. After several seconds, the capacitor's "draw" was measured in a hand-full of milliamps and after a minute, charging was essentially complete and "leakage" was under 1 mA. After ten minutes, leakage dropped to about 100 microamps. I then did a measurement of apparent capacity. The device was within 10% of rated value. I left the capacitor connected to the power supply for several days and measured apparent capacity again. It's increase was so tiny as to make measurement problematic. Bottom line: In days of yore when capacitor technology and fabrication techniques were in a relative state of infancy, the devices were indeed subject to deleterious effects of long term, dormant storage. But "modern" capacitors (meaning those built in the last 20 or so years) have exhibited great strides in operating performance and service life. Here's an exemplar article on the topic: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Long_Term_Stability_Aluminum_Electrolytics.pdf This article addresses an expected elevation of leakage currents in the first few minutes of a long term storage but that, "no damage to the capacitor is to be expected". This article is consistent with my own experience and in particular, with an experiment conducted on the bench. If anyone has data from an experiment arguing with the foregoing deductions, it would be interesting and useful for us to examine it for new understanding. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:52 AM PST US From: "Rob Turk" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life This could be a different issue altogether. A couple years ago an Asian manufacturer was caught when they stole a new formula for elco's. They happened to steal a flawed version, which caused millions of bad elco's to be produced. They ended up in a lot of PC motherboards and other consumer goods and they all failed after six months to a year or so . See: http://www.geek.com/capacitor-failures-plague-motherboard-vendors/ I thought by now those should have all been weeded out, apparently not. These failures however are not the same as ageing failures. Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life > > Yes absolutely but... > Several people seemed to have problems shortly after first flight so I > personally did power up my strobes every 6 months prior to flying. IIRC > aeroflash did recommend that. However I'm sensitive to the issue because > I have replaced failed electrolytics in consumer electronics in as little > as 3 years from manufacture. Last week it was a little used photocopier. > Previous to that was a DVD player. One of my favorite troubleshooting > tools has become a little in circuit ESR (equivalent series resistance) > tester for capacitors. I think it was a kit from Bob Parker for well under > a $100. > Ken > > Bill Maxwell wrote: > >> >> >> I doubt it. The message is greatly exaggerated. Electrolytic capacitors >> will eventually lose their capacitor ability if left on a shelf for a >> long time, but that is many years in my experience. They rely upon being >> connected in circuit with a voltage across them, so an oxide layer can >> form on the aluminium foil from which they are constructed. It provides >> the necesary dielectric layer. However, a capacitor which has lost that >> layer can be re-formed by connecting them up andprogressively increasing >> the voltage to the rated working voltage. >> >> If the LPM article were correct, every set of strobes would need to carry >> an "instal by" date. I imagine that most would have a period between >> manufacture and sale of greater than 12 months. >> >> Bill >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Creek" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:52 AM >> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> The Sept 2007 edition of LPM has an article on strobe lights. I'm >>> curious >>> as to how accurate the following excerpt is: >>> >>> "A strobe power supply that has been left "off" for long periods - weeks >>> or >>> months - is subject to eventual failure because the electrolytic >>> capacitors >>> used in the device will loose polarity formation. As a rule, a strobe >>> that >>> has been inactive for one year can be considered eligible for sudden >>> failure" >>> >>> I have two Areoflash power supplies that were purchased new six months >>> ago >>> and have since been waiting for final installation. Do I need to >>> "exercise" >>> this strobe system to keep it from going bad? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Mike Creek >>> >>> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:24 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life At 09:16 AM 8/24/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Yes absolutely but... >Several people seemed to have problems shortly after first flight so I >personally did power up my strobes every 6 months prior to flying. IIRC >aeroflash did recommend that. However I'm sensitive to the issue because >I have replaced failed electrolytics in consumer electronics in as little >as 3 years from manufacture. Last week it was a little used photocopier. >Previous to that was a DVD player. One of my favorite >troubleshooting tools has become a little in circuit ESR (equivalent >series resistance) tester for capacitors. I think it was a kit from Bob >Parker for well under a $100. >Ken . . . but was dormant, long term storage the proximate cause of failure? I've replaced a ton of capacitors in my career but I can recall no situation where I might have attributed the part's demise to long term inactivity followed by an indiscriminate power up. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > This article is consistent with my own experience > and in particular, with an experiment conducted on > the bench. If anyone has data from an experiment arguing > with the foregoing deductions, it would be interesting > and useful for us to examine it for new understanding. > > The electrolytics I have had to replace have been cheap ones in consumer products that experience continuous elevated temperatures. Computer motherboards and stereo equipment stored in closed cabinets, for the most part. This is consistent with the article Bob presented. Cheap caps could be expected to possibly include more defect producing contaminants, and the article makes note that high heat tends to be detrimental. -A strobe power supply may or may not be stored in a way to control temperature. Ambient temps have exceeded the 25C that the article suggest for weeks now here in NC. If it were buried in a wing stored in the rafters of a hanger, the temps could be much higher still. Could that be the nexus of the problem? -If the strobe is using cheap caps...well, I'd just be upset about that one. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio problem! From: "Travis" I have an XCom radio in my RV-7A and I am having some problems transmitting. I seem to receive just fine. When I push the PTT button on the pilot control stick I get a static in my headset. If I push the PTT button on the passenger control stick I get the same static (in the pilot headset) with the same intensity. When I switch headsets to my backup headset I don't hear the static when I push the PTT. HOWEVER, the problem is much worse in flight (possibly due to a louder environment); on the ground with the engine shut down the static is minimal. I have not tried the backup headset in flight. I will fly tonight with the other headset to see if this eliminates the problem, but I don't think it will. Since it only happens when transmitting I am starting to think there is a problem with the PTT wiring?? Any ideas to start me out? I will report back with the results of using a different headset. Could this be a gain adjustment needed (I can adjust the gain)? Travis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130771#130771 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:33 AM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation If I want to find out all about general aviation, I read AOPA's magazine, which has good content usually. To learn about the latest bizjet or how to fly IFR back east in the dead of winter in a Cessna, I flip thru "Flying" at the newstand. Experimental Aviation? Just can't wait for the next issue of "Kitplanes", lots of really good content, often from names familiar to us, like Stein. EAA's "Sport Aviation"? Says it all right on the cover..."The Magazine of Recreational Aviation". Looks like an appeal to a broader audience than just a few scraggly experimenters... Just like Oshkosh has morphed into. OK, got that off my shoulders... Jerry Cochran In a message dated 8/23/2007 11:58:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes: From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation I went through, I'm unhappy with Sport Aviation magazine, a few years ago. This is not new or just in the last year. Actually I thought I saw some improvement last year and earlier this year. When I wrote a while back, the EAA replied, incl Tom P. I was upset about the "fluffy" articles that where like ads and short on facts; I was also unhappy they dropped the Cafe Foundation Org group and their articles. I was told they where too technical. They also asked me to write articles. Clearly month to month they are desperate to get content. http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio problem! From: "Matt Prather" If you speak into the mic while transmitting, do you hear your voice (from the sidetone) through the headphones? Are other stations able to hear your transmission? With good quality? In addition to adjusting the gain, you might be able to adjust the sidetone volume if everything else appears to be working properly. Regards, Matt- > > > I have an XCom radio in my RV-7A and I am having some problems > transmitting. I seem to receive just fine. When I push the PTT button on > the pilot control stick I get a static in my headset. If I push the PTT > button on the passenger control stick I get the same static (in the pilot > headset) with the same intensity. When I switch headsets to my backup > headset I don't hear the static when I push the PTT. HOWEVER, the problem > is much worse in flight (possibly due to a louder environment); on the > ground with the engine shut down the static is minimal. I have not tried > the backup headset in flight. I will fly tonight with the other headset > to see if this eliminates the problem, but I don't think it will. Since > it only happens when transmitting I am starting to think there is a > problem with the PTT wiring?? Any ideas to start me out? I will report > back with the results of using a different headset. Could this be a gain > adjustment needed (I can adjust the gain)? > > Travis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130771#130771 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:51 AM PST US From: "Walter Fellows" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation Let's be fair now and not forget the great t-shirts and bomber jackets they sell for your ride in the B-17. And all of the US taxpayer supplied jet fuel for the endless F-15 flybys while we are trying to hear the forum speakers attending the forums at OSH. I heard a rumor the CEO has flies an EAA sponsored P-51 for promotion, I hope that is just a rumor (can anyone shed light on this?) On a more serious note, we seriously need EAA's help for representing the OBAM aircraft interests before congress and the administration. There seems to be a lot of sentiment among the established aerospace companies to severely limit the scope of the amateur builder's rights. Also, I still find the EAA forums and weekend workshops to be excellent value and put on by really dedicated and capable people. My suggestion is that we continue to support them but work to remove a lot of the mindless corporate professional management thinking that has crept in there. On 8/24/07, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote: > > If I want to find out all about general aviation, I read AOPA's magazine, > which has good content usually. To learn about the latest bizjet or how to > fly IFR back east in the dead of winter in a Cessna, I flip thru "Flying" at > the newstand. > > Experimental Aviation? Just can't wait for the next issue of "Kitplanes", > lots of really good content, often from names familiar to us, like Stein. > > EAA's "Sport Aviation"? Says it all right on the cover..."The Magazine of > Recreational Aviation". Looks like an appeal to a broader audience than just > a few scraggly experimenters... Just like Oshkosh has morphed into. > > OK, got that off my shoulders... > > Jerry Cochran > > In a message dated 8/23/2007 11:58:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > aeroelectric-list@matronics.com writes: > > From: > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation > > I went through, I'm unhappy with Sport Aviation magazine, a > few years ago. This is not new or just in the last year. Actually I > thought I saw some improvement last year and earlier this > year. When I wrote a while back, the EAA replied, incl Tom P. > I was upset about the "fluffy" articles that where like ads and > short on facts; I was also unhappy they dropped the Cafe > Foundation Org group and their articles. I was told they > where too technical. They also asked me to write articles. > Clearly month to month they are desperate to get content. > > > > > ------------------------------ > . > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:52 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation At 09:41 AM 8/24/2007 -0700, you wrote: >On a more serious note, we seriously need EAA's help for representing the >OBAM aircraft interests before congress and the administration. There >seems to be a lot of sentiment among the established aerospace companies >to severely limit the scope of the amateur builder's rights. Also, I still >find the EAA forums and weekend workshops to be excellent value and put on >by really dedicated and capable people. My suggestion is that we continue >to support them but work to remove a lot of the mindless corporate >professional management thinking that has crept in there. Astute observation. I've dropped my EAA membership and no longer write for SA for reasons cited in the past. However, in spite of what ever EAA is or is not, how does one replace OSH? I attend that event not to promote (or badmouth) EAA but to meet folks who gather there annually. I've attended many a regional fly-in that produced zero or a tiny fraction of return on investment for the $time$ expended compared to a few days at OSH. EAA's inarguable value is the opportunity to network with folks of like interests. We could endlessly debate whether or not the organization has lost the vision of the founding fathers. However, I'll suggest the organization has little or nothing to do with the vision of those who make the annual pilgrimage to aviation's Mecca. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:23 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article At 10:54 AM 8/24/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >-A strobe power supply may or may not be stored in a way to control >temperature. Ambient temps have exceeded the 25C that the article suggest >for weeks now here in NC. If it were buried in a wing stored in the >rafters of a hanger, the temps could be much higher still. Could that be >the nexus of the problem? > >-If the strobe is using cheap caps...well, I'd just be upset about that one. Which speaks to the value of conducting tests per DO-160. One cannot attract many customers in the type certificated aircraft world without jumping these hoops. Further, given the exceedingly small fraction of the world represented by aviation circles, it's impossible to keep the astute mechanics from knowing about poorly crafted products or less than helpful customer support. Stack these notions with the idea that really good capacitors are not that much more expensive than mediocre devices. Given the blood, sweat and tears sacrificed to the altars of regulation, it's unlikely that a company like Grimes or Whelen is going to compound their grief-to-market by cutting corners in the selection of components. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation From: "John W. Cox" Bob, your contribution is unmistakable here and from your days writing EAA articles I hold you in high esteem. EAA however, has clearly found a new and enlightened profitable path. Politic, Posturing and Self Promotion. I have heightened my enjoyment of OSH each year by just digging in with Warbirds and enjoying the view. They, the EAA Board, has been clearly absent as Phil Boyer has ceaselessly pounded the drum for relief from User Fees, while Tom tells us Marion Blakely is our friend. EAA makes a small fortune on OSH and rightly so, they decide where their money goes. The EAA is right now co-sponsoring a committee entering its second secret year, made up of the FAA and the wolves guarding our hen house. Can anyone inform me of what the EAA is doing to protect individual kit builders against user fees and clean the Hen House of corporate Build To Suit operators who are driving a wedge through Owner Built and Maintained aircraft rules? The group I affiliate with is getting older and older (faster than the calendar) and the cost to sustain is getting more and more difficult to hang onto. It is all about Quick Build and selling more kits regardless of the individual builder. I love Young Eagles but let's see a marked increase in pilots certificates issued under 30, joining he active ranks. Those with money make the rules. I continue paying my EAA dues but am not about to concede they are headed a direction that is in the best interest of the individual builder. If they were listening, they would post the secret iterations from within the 51% committee, wouldn't they? You would think the committee should represent the builders and not the kit manufacturers. John - nearing VNE and 60. Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation At 09:41 AM 8/24/2007 -0700, you wrote: >On a more serious note, we seriously need EAA's help for representing the >OBAM aircraft interests before congress and the administration. There >seems to be a lot of sentiment among the established aerospace companies >to severely limit the scope of the amateur builder's rights. Also, I still >find the EAA forums and weekend workshops to be excellent value and put on >by really dedicated and capable people. My suggestion is that we continue >to support them but work to remove a lot of the mindless corporate >professional management thinking that has crept in there. Astute observation. I've dropped my EAA membership and no longer write for SA for reasons cited in the past. However, in spite of what ever EAA is or is not, how does one replace OSH? I attend that event not to promote (or badmouth) EAA but to meet folks who gather there annually. I've attended many a regional fly-in that produced zero or a tiny fraction of return on investment for the $time$ expended compared to a few days at OSH. EAA's inarguable value is the opportunity to network with folks of like interests. We could endlessly debate whether or not the organization has lost the vision of the founding fathers. However, I'll suggest the organization has little or nothing to do with the vision of those who make the annual pilgrimage to aviation's Mecca. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:31 PM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation As to you Bob, astute observation as well! If it wasn't for OSH I don't think I would be doing much with the EAA. I will always support the EAA for their interests into homebuilt aviation but the future for us homebuilder's looks to be about Money. I agree OSH is a great value for everyone in aviation. It is a much better value then Sun & Fun for example. I'm 44 and have 3 experimental airplanes (credit to the EAA of days gone bye). But today's EAA is just a wanabe competitor to AOPA (with a lot of improvement needed). The last big thing I can remember the EAA doing that was important to real EAAers was the auto fuel STC. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shakeup at EAA Sport Aviation At 09:41 AM 8/24/2007 -0700, you wrote: >On a more serious note, we seriously need EAA's help for representing the >OBAM aircraft interests before congress and the administration. There >seems to be a lot of sentiment among the established aerospace companies >to severely limit the scope of the amateur builder's rights. Also, I still >find the EAA forums and weekend workshops to be excellent value and put on >by really dedicated and capable people. My suggestion is that we continue >to support them but work to remove a lot of the mindless corporate >professional management thinking that has crept in there. Astute observation. I've dropped my EAA membership and no longer write for SA for reasons cited in the past. However, in spite of what ever EAA is or is not, how does one replace OSH? I attend that event not to promote (or badmouth) EAA but to meet folks who gather there annually. I've attended many a regional fly-in that produced zero or a tiny fraction of return on investment for the $time$ expended compared to a few days at OSH. EAA's inarguable value is the opportunity to network with folks of like interests. We could endlessly debate whether or not the organization has lost the vision of the founding fathers. However, I'll suggest the organization has little or nothing to do with the vision of those who make the annual pilgrimage to aviation's Mecca. Bob . . . 7/29/2007 11:14 PM 7/29/2007 11:14 PM ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:05 PM PST US From: "David & Elaine Lamphere" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question I'm in the process of rewiring the connectors on a used King KX125 nav/com and am puzzled by a couple of pins that were previously wired. Connector P501 pins H and J are labeled (according to pinout I got from the aeroelectric website): (H) VOR/LOC COMPOSITE IN and (J) VOR/LOC COMPOSITE OUT These were previously jumpered together with a wire leading off from the pair.. Would someone who is familiar with NAV/COMS please explain what these pins are used for and a guess as to where they could have been connected to (in it's previous life)?? Thanks, Dave ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:22 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article-capacitor life Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 09:16 AM 8/24/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >> >> Yes absolutely but... >> Several people seemed to have problems shortly after first flight so I >> personally did power up my strobes every 6 months prior to flying. >> IIRC aeroflash did recommend that. However I'm sensitive to the issue >> because I have replaced failed electrolytics in consumer electronics >> in as little as 3 years from manufacture. Last week it was a little >> used photocopier. Previous to that was a DVD player. One of my favorite >> troubleshooting tools has become a little in circuit ESR (equivalent >> series resistance) tester for capacitors. I think it was a kit from >> Bob Parker for well under a $100. >> Ken > > . . . but was dormant, long term storage the proximate cause > of failure? I've replaced a ton of capacitors in my career > but I can recall no situation where I might have attributed > the part's demise to long term inactivity followed by an > indiscriminate power up. > > Bob . . . I rather doubt that this is relevant with today's technology, but back in the '70's the Crown DC-300 was a very popular pro-grade audio power amplifier with very large (for the time) electrolytic capacitors used for brute-force DC supply filtering. If an amp wasn't powered up for many months (unfortunately, no specific count), it was not unusual for it to take out its protective fuses upon power-up. It would continue to do so until the big filter caps were either replaced or 'conditioned' by plugging the amp's power cord into a variac and bringing up the voltage slowly over many hours. Supposedly, this had the effect of reforming the capacitors so that the bridge rectifier was no longer looking at a dead short. I might consider this an old hangar tale if I hadn't experienced it myself. Your tidbit of the day... Charlie ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question From: Ron Quillin At 14:54 8/24/2007, you wrote: >Would someone who is familiar with NAV/COMS please explain what >these pins are used for and a guess as to where they could have >been connected to (in it's previous life)?? External RMI perhaps? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:53 PM PST US From: "Kenneth Melvin" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question The wiring diagram for the KX125 shows these connections drive an external indicator such as KI208, KI209. Kenneth Melvin N669TJ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:31 PM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question Those pins are used to drive certin CDIs, RMIs or HSIs that accept a single composite line. Older unites require the older style of direct analog signaling. With the composite signal you can send the information over one wire instead of the 6-10 from the analog style. Both sides have to be able to interpret a composite signal. Hope this helps! Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David & Elaine Lamphere Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 2:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: KX125 Wiring / Nav Com Question I'm in the process of rewiring the connectors on a used King KX125 nav/com and am puzzled by a couple of pins that were previously wired. Connector P501 pins H and J are labeled (according to pinout I got from the aeroelectric website): (H) VOR/LOC COMPOSITE IN and (J) VOR/LOC COMPOSITE OUT These were previously jumpered together with a wire leading off from the pair.. Would someone who is familiar with NAV/COMS please explain what these pins are used for and a guess as to where they could have been connected to (in it's previous life)?? Thanks, Dave 7/29/2007 11:14 PM 7/29/2007 11:14 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.