Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (John McMahon)
2. 07:19 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Rob Turk)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Kevin Boddicker)
4. 07:30 AM - Re: How to check and alternator?? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 08:24 AM - Sorry (frequent flyer)
6. 10:51 AM - Mixing and matching strobe supplies and flash tube heads (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:57 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 09:34 PM - Re: How to check and alternator?? (Matt Reeves)
9. 10:36 PM - Re: How to check and alternator?? (raymondj)
10. 10:44 PM - A simple ECU (Peter Harris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article |
Just an additional comment.. In the Whelan strobe installation manual it
cautions you not to apply full voltage to a power supply that has not been
charged for a long time, such as on initial installation. If I remember
correctly it says to start by applying half power initially. I am on the
road so cannot look it up until the end of the month, maybe someone else can
confirm my recollection.
On 8/24/07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
>
> nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 10:54 AM 8/24/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
> ><echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> <snip>
>
> >-A strobe power supply may or may not be stored in a way to control
> >temperature. Ambient temps have exceeded the 25C that the article
> suggest
> >for weeks now here in NC. If it were buried in a wing stored in the
> >rafters of a hanger, the temps could be much higher still. Could that be
> >the nexus of the problem?
> >
> >-If the strobe is using cheap caps...well, I'd just be upset about that
> one.
>
> Which speaks to the value of conducting tests per DO-160.
> One cannot attract many customers in the type certificated
> aircraft world without jumping these hoops. Further, given
> the exceedingly small fraction of the world represented by
> aviation circles, it's impossible to keep the astute mechanics
> from knowing about poorly crafted products or less than
> helpful customer support. Stack these notions with the
> idea that really good capacitors are not that much more
> expensive than mediocre devices. Given the blood, sweat and
> tears sacrificed to the altars of regulation, it's
> unlikely that a company like Grimes or Whelen is going
> to compound their grief-to-market by cutting corners in
> the selection of components.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
John McMahon
Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article |
Just looked at the manual, and it does indeed hold a warning for older units
only. Below is a quote from the manual.
Rob
==
WARNING: Strobe light power supplies are meant to be used, not to
remain in an inactive state. Use them at all times, this will improve their
proper functioning. Any strobe light power supply that has been out of
service for a long period of time is subject to failure because the
electrolytic
condenser loses the polarity formation. A strobe light power
supply not having been used for one year or longer is vulnerable to
failure, applies to 1993 & older units.
If this is the case, it is recommended to start operating the system on
a voltage that is reduced by 25 percent for 10 to 15 minutes before putting
the power supply into normal service. This will prevent overheating
of the condenser while they reform. If the power supply, after a long
period of non use, is operated at full voltage immediately, there is an
excellent possibility that the condenser will become overheated.
==
----- Original Message -----
From: John McMahon
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article
Just an additional comment.. In the Whelan strobe installation manual it
cautions you not to apply full voltage to a power supply that has not been
charged for a long time, such as on initial installation. If I remember
correctly it says to start by applying half power initially. I am on the
road so cannot look it up until the end of the month, maybe someone else can
confirm my recollection.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article |
I called Wheelen when I had a "new in the box" twenty year old power
supply.
I was told three volts for an hour, then six, nine, twelve. Each for
one hour. That was three years ago, still works fine.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200 N7868B 63.5 hours
Luana, IA.
On Aug 27, 2007, at 8:06 AM, John McMahon wrote:
> Just an additional comment.. In the Whelan strobe installation
> manual it cautions you not to apply full voltage to a power supply
> that has not been charged for a long time, such as on initial
> installation. If I remember correctly it says to start by
> applying half power initially. I am on the road so cannot look it
> up until the end of the month, maybe someone else can confirm my
> recollection.
>
> On 8/24/07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 10:54 AM 8/24/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
> ><echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> <snip>
>
> >-A strobe power supply may or may not be stored in a way to control
> >temperature. Ambient temps have exceeded the 25C that the article
> suggest
> >for weeks now here in NC. If it were buried in a wing stored in the
> >rafters of a hanger, the temps could be much higher still. Could
> that be
> >the nexus of the problem?
> >
> >-If the strobe is using cheap caps...well, I'd just be upset about
> that one.
>
> Which speaks to the value of conducting tests per DO-160.
> One cannot attract many customers in the type certificated
> aircraft world without jumping these hoops. Further, given
> the exceedingly small fraction of the world represented by
> aviation circles, it's impossible to keep the astute mechanics
> from knowing about poorly crafted products or less than
> helpful customer support. Stack these notions with the
> idea that really good capacitors are not that much more
> expensive than mediocre devices. Given the blood, sweat and
> tears sacrificed to the altars of regulation, it's
> unlikely that a company like Grimes or Whelen is going
> to compound their grief-to-market by cutting corners in
> Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | How to check and alternator?? |
It depends on where your ammeter is connected as to what info it is
giving you. The best way to know if your alternator is working
adequately (i.e is making more current than is consumed by the
electrical devices in your airplane) is to watch the voltmeter.
I.e if you turn everything on and it maintains above say 13.5V it
working just fine.
If it drops below 12.5V then it is either malfunctioning or is
undersized for the application.
Sounds to me like your unit is working just fine.
Frank
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Reeves
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:51 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to check and alternator??
I have a 35 amp alternator and a 12 volt concorde battery and a Linear
Voltage Regulator. Lycoming 160hp
I have noticed the voltage reads just under 14 volts with the engine
running.
I also noticed the ammeter stays at zero unless I turn on something such
as the nav lights or strobe lights. Then it goes to the negative about
1/16 of an inch on a +40/-40 amp guage. This remains the same even at
high throttle settings. No change at low or high power settings.
I have a shunt. I checked all the wiring an it is correct from
Bingelis' book so I am wondering if my alternator is bad.
What is the best way to check an alternator on an airplane? Can't
really take it to my neighborhood Advance AutoParts. They might wonder
what the big fan is for.
Thanks!!
Message 5
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Bob et. all,
I was looking through the digest from yesterday and wondered what idiot didn't
delete the messages before posting. Almost missed the reply Bob gave to my message
and then realized from Bob's remark that I was the idiot.
Sorry, and thanks for the info Bob,
Jack
---------------------------------
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lay it on us.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Mixing and matching strobe supplies and flash tube |
heads
>
>Comments/Questions: Bill Vondane of CreatiVair has a new low profile
>streamlined Strobe/LED position light, the answer to my prayers. Bill says
>my already installed Grimes Powerpack ex '79 Grumman Cougar is too
>powerful for his strobe tubes and he wants to sell me a police style
>powerpak as "a matched umit". Also he will not give warranty on his
>strobes if used with Grimes.
>
>Is he right, or just trying to sell me stuff I do not need? Specs. of his
>powerpack ans strobe unit are on the Creativair Website.
>
>I have studied your book on the subject, but am still unsure.
Flash tubes are rather inefficient and will get pretty hot
when operated within ratings. It's entirely possible that
one of super, eye-ball frying strobe systems would deliver too
much energy per flash. Without doing bench testing or analyzing
his choice of parts for flash-tubes, I'd be hard pressed to
offer any better information.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one wishes to be "world class" at )
( anything, what ever you do must be )
( exercised EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article |
At 09:23 AM 8/27/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>I called Wheelen when I had a "new in the box" twenty year old power supply.
>I was told three volts for an hour, then six, nine, twelve. Each for one
>hour. That was three years ago, still works fine.
>Kevin Boddicker
>Tri Q 200 N7868B 63.5 hours
>Luana, IA.
>
>
>On Aug 27, 2007, at 8:06 AM, John McMahon wrote:
>
>>Just an additional comment.. In the Whelan strobe installation manual it
>>cautions you not to apply full voltage to a power supply that has not
>>been charged for a long time, such as on initial installation. If I
>>remember correctly it says to start by applying half power initially. I
>>am on the road so cannot look it up until the end of the month, maybe
>>someone else can confirm my recollection.
It never hurts to do a 'reforming' exercise on a strobe
supply that has been in storage for a long period of time.
What is not known . . . and will never be known without some
judicious data gathering and analysis is whether or not
the device really benefits from this exercise. It's doubtful
that any of the big dogs in the strobe business will come
forward with real data . . . it's pretty hard to find capacitors
that have been in storage for 20+ years.
The 'reforming' routine has been a standard fixture in
the installation manuals for 40 years. Some folks still
recommend avionics master switches for radios. But when asked
to supports the validity of the exercise with simple-ideas
and repeatable-experiments, the standard response is "that's
the way we've always done it."
If anyone is worried about it, by all means do the extended
spool-up exercise.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may )
( give some practical results, but )
( that's not why we do it." )
( )
( Richard P. Feynman )
----------------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: How to check and alternator?? |
Thanks for messages.
Here's the answer to your questions.
I have a Chief Aircraft +/- 40 ammeter with a 40amp shunt.
I think my alternator is 35 amps but can't remember - I'll have to look that
up. I am running Nav lights, strobe lights, wig wag lights, and a full Garmin
stack so I'm thinking I may need to upgrade my alternator. Will have to add
that up before first flight to see the load.
The ammeter has a positive and negative terminal on the back. The positive is
connected to to the small screw on the shunt which also has a large screw on
the same side which is wired directly to the main power bus which also splits
to a wire between the master and starter relay. The negative side on the back
of the ammeter is connected to the opposite small screw on the shunt which
also has a large screw which is wired through a 60amp circuit breaker to the
main power bus.
Kinda hard to explain without a picture. I followed the Bingeles book when
I wired it up a few years back so maybe I messed something up.
I do know that the volt meter reads barely under 14 volts with the engine running.
Thanks for the help!!!!
Matt
P.S. My brother Danny has an RV-7A completely built in the basement of his house
in Harrisburg, PA. His MIL lives in the garage. We got an estimate of
$7000 to have someone dig a hole, cut the blocks out and put it all back together.
We are hoping for some suggestions as to how to get it out. (The airplane
- not the Mother-In-Law)
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
At 04:51 PM 8/26/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a 35 amp alternator and a 12 volt concorde battery and a Linear
>Voltage Regulator. Lycoming 160hp
>
>I have noticed the voltage reads just under 14 volts with the engine running.
>
>I also noticed the ammeter stays at zero unless I turn on something such
>as the nav lights or strobe lights. Then it goes to the negative about
>1/16 of an inch on a +40/-40 amp guage. This remains the same even at
>high throttle settings. No change at low or high power settings.
>
>I have a shunt. I checked all the wiring an it is correct from Bingelis'
>book so I am wondering if my alternator is bad.
>
>What is the best way to check an alternator on an airplane? Can't really
>take it to my neighborhood Advance AutoParts. They might wonder what the
>big fan is for.
Sounds like your alterantor is working. You can't have a bus votlage
greater than about 12.8 if the alternator is not picking up ship's loads.
Where is your ammeter in the system? If you have a -0+ reading ammeter,
then it suggests a battery ammeter which is almost useless as a
diagnostic tool.
Suggest that you convert the ammeter to a +only alternator load
meter. Then you'll see the alternator functioning as expected . . .
picking up loads as they are added to the system.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder
tool.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: How to check and alternator?? |
Matt,
The only alternative I can think of besides taking it appart is to bring
it up through the floor and out a picture window. Might be cheaper than
all that digging and masonry work. Even cheaper if you're a carpenter.
Best of luck,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Reeves
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How to check and alternator??
Thanks for messages.
Here's the answer to your questions.
I have a Chief Aircraft +/- 40 ammeter with a 40amp shunt.
I think my alternator is 35 amps but can't remember - I'll have to
look that up. I am running Nav lights, strobe lights, wig wag lights,
and a full Garmin stack so I'm thinking I may need to upgrade my
alternator. Will have to add that up before first flight to see the
load.
The ammeter has a positive and negative terminal on the back. The
positive is connected to to the small screw on the shunt which also has
a large screw on the same side which is wired directly to the main power
bus which also splits to a wire between the master and starter relay.
The negative side on the back of the ammeter is connected to the
opposite small screw on the shunt which also has a large screw which is
wired through a 60amp circuit breaker to the main power bus.
Kinda hard to explain without a picture. I followed the Bingeles
book when I wired it up a few years back so maybe I messed something up.
I do know that the volt meter reads barely under 14 volts with the
engine running.
Thanks for the help!!!!
Matt
P.S. My brother Danny has an RV-7A completely built in the basement
of his house in Harrisburg, PA. His MIL lives in the garage. We got
an estimate of $7000 to have someone dig a hole, cut the blocks out and
put it all back together. We are hoping for some suggestions as to how
to get it out. (The airplane - not the Mother-In-Law)
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
At 04:51 PM 8/26/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a 35 amp alternator and a 12 volt concorde battery and a
Linear
>Voltage Regulator. Lycoming 160hp
>
>I have noticed the voltage reads just under 14 volts with the
engine running.
>
>I also noticed the ammeter stays at zero unless I turn on something
such
>as the nav lights or strobe lights. Then it goes to the negative
about
>1/16 of an inch on a +40/-40 amp guage. This remains the same even
at
>high throttle settings. No change at low or high power settings.
>
>I have a shunt. I checked all the wiring an it is correct from
Bingelis'
>book so I am wondering if my alternator is bad.
>
>What is the best way to check an alternator on an airplane? Can't
really
>take it to my
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Choose the right car based on your needs.
Message 10
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I am in the process of installing a simple TBI system to the Jabiru 3300.
Just two injectors in a spigot type throttle body which takes the place of
the Bing, it works from a MAP sensor and air temp sensor, the ECU is
triggered from the flywheel magnets. We are using a regular automotive ECU
which is a giant overkill and very expensive.
We can trim the mixture using a pot if required.
My question is has anyone seen a simple programmable unit that could be
programmed with a pot, a switch and a digital dial. The programming would be
done by select injector time and enter as required. We would keep the manual
over ride.
What would be the elements of such a simple ECU ? Any idea where I could
get some help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Peter H
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