---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/27/07: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:08 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (John McMahon) 2. 07:19 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Rob Turk) 3. 07:22 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Kevin Boddicker) 4. 07:30 AM - Re: How to check and alternator?? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 5. 08:24 AM - Sorry (frequent flyer) 6. 10:51 AM - Mixing and matching strobe supplies and flash tube heads (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 10:57 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 09:34 PM - Re: How to check and alternator?? (Matt Reeves) 9. 10:36 PM - Re: How to check and alternator?? (raymondj) 10. 10:44 PM - A simple ECU (Peter Harris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:38 AM PST US From: "John McMahon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article Just an additional comment.. In the Whelan strobe installation manual it cautions you not to apply full voltage to a power supply that has not been charged for a long time, such as on initial installation. If I remember correctly it says to start by applying half power initially. I am on the road so cannot look it up until the end of the month, maybe someone else can confirm my recollection. On 8/24/07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 10:54 AM 8/24/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > >-A strobe power supply may or may not be stored in a way to control > >temperature. Ambient temps have exceeded the 25C that the article > suggest > >for weeks now here in NC. If it were buried in a wing stored in the > >rafters of a hanger, the temps could be much higher still. Could that be > >the nexus of the problem? > > > >-If the strobe is using cheap caps...well, I'd just be upset about that > one. > > Which speaks to the value of conducting tests per DO-160. > One cannot attract many customers in the type certificated > aircraft world without jumping these hoops. Further, given > the exceedingly small fraction of the world represented by > aviation circles, it's impossible to keep the astute mechanics > from knowing about poorly crafted products or less than > helpful customer support. Stack these notions with the > idea that really good capacitors are not that much more > expensive than mediocre devices. Given the blood, sweat and > tears sacrificed to the altars of regulation, it's > unlikely that a company like Grimes or Whelen is going > to compound their grief-to-market by cutting corners in > the selection of components. > > Bob . . . > > -- John McMahon Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:44 AM PST US From: "Rob Turk" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article Just looked at the manual, and it does indeed hold a warning for older units only. Below is a quote from the manual. Rob == WARNING: Strobe light power supplies are meant to be used, not to remain in an inactive state. Use them at all times, this will improve their proper functioning. Any strobe light power supply that has been out of service for a long period of time is subject to failure because the electrolytic condenser loses the polarity formation. A strobe light power supply not having been used for one year or longer is vulnerable to failure, applies to 1993 & older units. If this is the case, it is recommended to start operating the system on a voltage that is reduced by 25 percent for 10 to 15 minutes before putting the power supply into normal service. This will prevent overheating of the condenser while they reform. If the power supply, after a long period of non use, is operated at full voltage immediately, there is an excellent possibility that the condenser will become overheated. == ----- Original Message ----- From: John McMahon Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:06 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article Just an additional comment.. In the Whelan strobe installation manual it cautions you not to apply full voltage to a power supply that has not been charged for a long time, such as on initial installation. If I remember correctly it says to start by applying half power initially. I am on the road so cannot look it up until the end of the month, maybe someone else can confirm my recollection. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:34 AM PST US From: Kevin Boddicker Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article I called Wheelen when I had a "new in the box" twenty year old power supply. I was told three volts for an hour, then six, nine, twelve. Each for one hour. That was three years ago, still works fine. Kevin Boddicker Tri Q 200 N7868B 63.5 hours Luana, IA. On Aug 27, 2007, at 8:06 AM, John McMahon wrote: > Just an additional comment.. In the Whelan strobe installation > manual it cautions you not to apply full voltage to a power supply > that has not been charged for a long time, such as on initial > installation. If I remember correctly it says to start by > applying half power initially. I am on the road so cannot look it > up until the end of the month, maybe someone else can confirm my > recollection. > > On 8/24/07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 10:54 AM 8/24/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > >-A strobe power supply may or may not be stored in a way to control > >temperature. Ambient temps have exceeded the 25C that the article > suggest > >for weeks now here in NC. If it were buried in a wing stored in the > >rafters of a hanger, the temps could be much higher still. Could > that be > >the nexus of the problem? > > > >-If the strobe is using cheap caps...well, I'd just be upset about > that one. > > Which speaks to the value of conducting tests per DO-160. > One cannot attract many customers in the type certificated > aircraft world without jumping these hoops. Further, given > the exceedingly small fraction of the world represented by > aviation circles, it's impossible to keep the astute mechanics > from knowing about poorly crafted products or less than > helpful customer support. Stack these notions with the > idea that really good capacitors are not that much more > expensive than mediocre devices. Given the blood, sweat and > tears sacrificed to the altars of regulation, it's > unlikely that a company like Grimes or Whelen is going > to compound their grief-to-market by cutting corners in > Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved) > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: How to check and alternator?? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" It depends on where your ammeter is connected as to what info it is giving you. The best way to know if your alternator is working adequately (i.e is making more current than is consumed by the electrical devices in your airplane) is to watch the voltmeter. I.e if you turn everything on and it maintains above say 13.5V it working just fine. If it drops below 12.5V then it is either malfunctioning or is undersized for the application. Sounds to me like your unit is working just fine. Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Reeves Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to check and alternator?? I have a 35 amp alternator and a 12 volt concorde battery and a Linear Voltage Regulator. Lycoming 160hp I have noticed the voltage reads just under 14 volts with the engine running. I also noticed the ammeter stays at zero unless I turn on something such as the nav lights or strobe lights. Then it goes to the negative about 1/16 of an inch on a +40/-40 amp guage. This remains the same even at high throttle settings. No change at low or high power settings. I have a shunt. I checked all the wiring an it is correct from Bingelis' book so I am wondering if my alternator is bad. What is the best way to check an alternator on an airplane? Can't really take it to my neighborhood Advance AutoParts. They might wonder what the big fan is for. Thanks!! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:37 AM PST US From: frequent flyer Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sorry Bob et. all, I was looking through the digest from yesterday and wondered what idiot didn't delete the messages before posting. Almost missed the reply Bob gave to my message and then realized from Bob's remark that I was the idiot. Sorry, and thanks for the info Bob, Jack --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:40 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mixing and matching strobe supplies and flash tube heads > >Comments/Questions: Bill Vondane of CreatiVair has a new low profile >streamlined Strobe/LED position light, the answer to my prayers. Bill says >my already installed Grimes Powerpack ex '79 Grumman Cougar is too >powerful for his strobe tubes and he wants to sell me a police style >powerpak as "a matched umit". Also he will not give warranty on his >strobes if used with Grimes. > >Is he right, or just trying to sell me stuff I do not need? Specs. of his >powerpack ans strobe unit are on the Creativair Website. > >I have studied your book on the subject, but am still unsure. Flash tubes are rather inefficient and will get pretty hot when operated within ratings. It's entirely possible that one of super, eye-ball frying strobe systems would deliver too much energy per flash. Without doing bench testing or analyzing his choice of parts for flash-tubes, I'd be hard pressed to offer any better information. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one wishes to be "world class" at ) ( anything, what ever you do must be ) ( exercised EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article At 09:23 AM 8/27/2007 -0500, you wrote: >I called Wheelen when I had a "new in the box" twenty year old power supply. >I was told three volts for an hour, then six, nine, twelve. Each for one >hour. That was three years ago, still works fine. >Kevin Boddicker >Tri Q 200 N7868B 63.5 hours >Luana, IA. > > >On Aug 27, 2007, at 8:06 AM, John McMahon wrote: > >>Just an additional comment.. In the Whelan strobe installation manual it >>cautions you not to apply full voltage to a power supply that has not >>been charged for a long time, such as on initial installation. If I >>remember correctly it says to start by applying half power initially. I >>am on the road so cannot look it up until the end of the month, maybe >>someone else can confirm my recollection. It never hurts to do a 'reforming' exercise on a strobe supply that has been in storage for a long period of time. What is not known . . . and will never be known without some judicious data gathering and analysis is whether or not the device really benefits from this exercise. It's doubtful that any of the big dogs in the strobe business will come forward with real data . . . it's pretty hard to find capacitors that have been in storage for 20+ years. The 'reforming' routine has been a standard fixture in the installation manuals for 40 years. Some folks still recommend avionics master switches for radios. But when asked to supports the validity of the exercise with simple-ideas and repeatable-experiments, the standard response is "that's the way we've always done it." If anyone is worried about it, by all means do the extended spool-up exercise. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Physics is like sex: sure, it may ) ( give some practical results, but ) ( that's not why we do it." ) ( ) ( Richard P. Feynman ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:55 PM PST US From: Matt Reeves Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How to check and alternator?? Thanks for messages. Here's the answer to your questions. I have a Chief Aircraft +/- 40 ammeter with a 40amp shunt. I think my alternator is 35 amps but can't remember - I'll have to look that up. I am running Nav lights, strobe lights, wig wag lights, and a full Garmin stack so I'm thinking I may need to upgrade my alternator. Will have to add that up before first flight to see the load. The ammeter has a positive and negative terminal on the back. The positive is connected to to the small screw on the shunt which also has a large screw on the same side which is wired directly to the main power bus which also splits to a wire between the master and starter relay. The negative side on the back of the ammeter is connected to the opposite small screw on the shunt which also has a large screw which is wired through a 60amp circuit breaker to the main power bus. Kinda hard to explain without a picture. I followed the Bingeles book when I wired it up a few years back so maybe I messed something up. I do know that the volt meter reads barely under 14 volts with the engine running. Thanks for the help!!!! Matt P.S. My brother Danny has an RV-7A completely built in the basement of his house in Harrisburg, PA. His MIL lives in the garage. We got an estimate of $7000 to have someone dig a hole, cut the blocks out and put it all back together. We are hoping for some suggestions as to how to get it out. (The airplane - not the Mother-In-Law) "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: At 04:51 PM 8/26/2007 -0700, you wrote: >I have a 35 amp alternator and a 12 volt concorde battery and a Linear >Voltage Regulator. Lycoming 160hp > >I have noticed the voltage reads just under 14 volts with the engine running. > >I also noticed the ammeter stays at zero unless I turn on something such >as the nav lights or strobe lights. Then it goes to the negative about >1/16 of an inch on a +40/-40 amp guage. This remains the same even at >high throttle settings. No change at low or high power settings. > >I have a shunt. I checked all the wiring an it is correct from Bingelis' >book so I am wondering if my alternator is bad. > >What is the best way to check an alternator on an airplane? Can't really >take it to my neighborhood Advance AutoParts. They might wonder what the >big fan is for. Sounds like your alterantor is working. You can't have a bus votlage greater than about 12.8 if the alternator is not picking up ship's loads. Where is your ammeter in the system? If you have a -0+ reading ammeter, then it suggests a battery ammeter which is almost useless as a diagnostic tool. Suggest that you convert the ammeter to a +only alternator load meter. Then you'll see the alternator functioning as expected . . . picking up loads as they are added to the system. Bob . . . --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:38 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How to check and alternator?? Matt, The only alternative I can think of besides taking it appart is to bring it up through the floor and out a picture window. Might be cheaper than all that digging and masonry work. Even cheaper if you're a carpenter. Best of luck, Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Reeves To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:24 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How to check and alternator?? Thanks for messages. Here's the answer to your questions. I have a Chief Aircraft +/- 40 ammeter with a 40amp shunt. I think my alternator is 35 amps but can't remember - I'll have to look that up. I am running Nav lights, strobe lights, wig wag lights, and a full Garmin stack so I'm thinking I may need to upgrade my alternator. Will have to add that up before first flight to see the load. The ammeter has a positive and negative terminal on the back. The positive is connected to to the small screw on the shunt which also has a large screw on the same side which is wired directly to the main power bus which also splits to a wire between the master and starter relay. The negative side on the back of the ammeter is connected to the opposite small screw on the shunt which also has a large screw which is wired through a 60amp circuit breaker to the main power bus. Kinda hard to explain without a picture. I followed the Bingeles book when I wired it up a few years back so maybe I messed something up. I do know that the volt meter reads barely under 14 volts with the engine running. Thanks for the help!!!! Matt P.S. My brother Danny has an RV-7A completely built in the basement of his house in Harrisburg, PA. His MIL lives in the garage. We got an estimate of $7000 to have someone dig a hole, cut the blocks out and put it all back together. We are hoping for some suggestions as to how to get it out. (The airplane - not the Mother-In-Law) "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: At 04:51 PM 8/26/2007 -0700, you wrote: >I have a 35 amp alternator and a 12 volt concorde battery and a Linear >Voltage Regulator. Lycoming 160hp > >I have noticed the voltage reads just under 14 volts with the engine running. > >I also noticed the ammeter stays at zero unless I turn on something such >as the nav lights or strobe lights. Then it goes to the negative about >1/16 of an inch on a +40/-40 amp guage. This remains the same even at >high throttle settings. No change at low or high power settings. > >I have a shunt. I checked all the wiring an it is correct from Bingelis' >book so I am wondering if my alternator is bad. > >What is the best way to check an alternator on an airplane? Can't really >take it to my ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Choose the right car based on your needs. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:56 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: AeroElectric-List: A simple ECU I am in the process of installing a simple TBI system to the Jabiru 3300. Just two injectors in a spigot type throttle body which takes the place of the Bing, it works from a MAP sensor and air temp sensor, the ECU is triggered from the flywheel magnets. We are using a regular automotive ECU which is a giant overkill and very expensive. We can trim the mixture using a pot if required. My question is has anyone seen a simple programmable unit that could be programmed with a pot, a switch and a digital dial. The programming would be done by select injector time and enter as required. We would keep the manual over ride. What would be the elements of such a simple ECU ? Any idea where I could get some help would be appreciated. Thanks Peter H ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.