---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/28/07: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:39 AM - NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice (Dale Ensing) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 05:32 AM - Re: A simple ECU (Ken) 4. 05:53 AM - Homemade 1/4 wave TSPD antenna (rtitsworth) 5. 07:49 AM - Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article (Eric M. Jones) 6. 08:10 AM - Re: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice (B Tomm) 7. 09:06 AM - Re: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice (Matt Prather) 8. 10:41 AM - Rotax electrical switches (Les Goldner) 9. 12:04 PM - Re: Rotax electrical switches (Michael Ice) 10. 02:50 PM - Re: A simple ECU (Peter Harris) 11. 03:17 PM - Re: A simple ECU (mikef) 12. 05:25 PM - Re: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice (MauleDriver) 13. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: A simple ECU (Peter Harris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:42 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: AeroElectric-List: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice Forgive me for using this forum but its the best source I could think of....... Interested in opinions on why digital phone service from the cable TV company might be better than service from the old phone company.? Dale Ensing DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:46 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice At 06:37 AM 8/28/2007 -0400, you wrote: >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> >Forgive me for using this forum but its the best source I could think >of....... > >Interested in opinions on why digital phone service from the cable TV >company might be better than service from the old phone company.? >Dale Ensing >DO NOT ARCHIVE If the product performs as expected, then there is no "better" or "worse" to be considered. We have an integrated Cable-Internet-Phone service here and for all practical purposes, there has been no observable degradation or enhancement of phone service. One thing to consider is the fact that all your communication comes in and goes out on one wire. A single point of vulnerability/failure for the whole apple cart. But after about 2 years of using this service, I'm unaware of any feature or performance issues that would suggest that the change was not a good thing to do. In some respects, going the all-eggs-in-one basket approach will put greater market pressures on the service providers to enhance the scope of services offered. I.e, the day is coming that they'll bring a glass fiber into the back of your house (or perhaps offer a wireless broadband LAN) with greatly expanded capabilities. This probably wouldn't happen so fast (if at all) if we still had multiple providers with a mix of transmission technologies. I take that back. There IS a noticeable difference albeit a tiny one. When we get a lot of rain, the 40+ year old telco hard wires get wet and you get some crosstalk between subscriber lines and some AC hum. The buried coax with RF multiplexing is not vulnerable to this condition. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:19 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: A simple ECU Peter Google "megasquirt efi" for an under $200. system and lots of related info. Not recommended for aviation of course but I run one as a manually selectable backup to my main subaru efi. I have mine configured with the inputs that you describe and it is fine for my purposes. For everyday use it would benefit from connecting a TPS (throttle position sensor) acceleration enrichment, or one could run the code that enriches based on delta MAP. A water temp (cylinder or oil temp for you) sensor would also be handy for starting and warmup but I don't use mine for startup. There are some schemes for doing this with analog electronics but the megasquirt is definately the way to do it nowadays and about as simple as I could find. I have a manual mixture tweaking knob but it is not needed (especially if one has an engine emp sensor) and if it isn't there - it can't fail. I use an old 486 laptop for programming. If you are only going to have a primary controller I'd suggest googling SDS EFI. That would most likely require re-arranging your flywheel pickups but it would have "established" reliability. I think there are thousands of megaquirt units in use but each is somewhat different and subject to unique failures. Megasquirt has very little capability of keeping the engine running after a sensor or wire failure compared to oem or even the SDS system. Ken Peter Harris wrote: > > > I am in the process of installing a simple TBI system to the Jabiru > 3300. Just two injectors in a spigot type throttle body which takes > the place of the Bing, it works from a MAP sensor and air temp sensor, > the ECU is triggered from the flywheel magnets. We are using a regular > automotive ECU which is a giant overkill and very expensive. > > We can trim the mixture using a pot if required. > > My question is has anyone seen a simple programmable unit that could > be programmed with a pot, a switch and a digital dial. The programming > would be done by select injector time and enter as required. We would > keep the manual over ride. > > What would be the elements of such a simple ECU ? Any idea where I > could get some help would be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Peter H > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:13 AM PST US From: "rtitsworth" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Homemade 1/4 wave TSPD antenna Bob, Thanks for the reply to my last msg (1/4 Wave Comm Ant). A follow-up... I am contemplating putting a 1/4 wave TSPD antenna on the belly of a composite aircraft, directly under the pilot seat. In chapter 13 of the Connection you talk about making the ground plane 5.5" dia to keep it resonant. >From a health standpoint, does 5.5" effectively shield the pilot (and co-pilot) - i.e. keep all the radiated energy below horizontal, or should I do something else. Options: a. Make the ground plane bigger (but I can only get to about 13" diameter). b. Make a second, larger shield slightly above the ground plane and not connected to it. Rick ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:50 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Strobes - Light Plane Maintenance Article From: "Eric M. Jones" Check--http://industrial.rell.com/pdfs/IPG_AN_appguide.pdf Excerpt from above: "Aluminum electrolytic capacitors stored for more than 5 to 10 years may have increased levels of DC leakage current. Check if DCL meets application requirements before placing in service. Recondition high DCL units by applying rated voltage through 1,000 ohm resistor for 30 minutes. Shelf life is a measure of how the capacitors will withstand storage for long times especially at high temperature. To test shelf life place the capacitors in an oven set to the shelf-life test temperature 0 +3 C for the shelf-life test period. Upon completion of the test stabilize the capacitors at 25 C for 24 h or more. Apply the rated voltage for 30 minutes, then verify the post test limits. Unless otherwise specified the capacitance, DCL and ESR will meet initial requirements." -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131345#131345 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:50 AM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice I would add that the cable based phone service needs local AC power to work. They usually use a UPS for standby power should the power go out. But this standby time will be limited by the capacity and condition of the back up. The old style phone service is not dependant on AC power at the premises. Bevan RV7A wiring -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:19 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice --> At 06:37 AM 8/28/2007 -0400, you wrote: >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> >Forgive me for using this forum but its the best source I could think >of....... > >Interested in opinions on why digital phone service from the cable TV >company might be better than service from the old phone company.? >Dale Ensing >DO NOT ARCHIVE If the product performs as expected, then there is no "better" or "worse" to be considered. We have an integrated Cable-Internet-Phone service here and for all practical purposes, there has been no observable degradation or enhancement of phone service. One thing to consider is the fact that all your communication comes in and goes out on one wire. A single point of vulnerability/failure for the whole apple cart. But after about 2 years of using this service, I'm unaware of any feature or performance issues that would suggest that the change was not a good thing to do. In some respects, going the all-eggs-in-one basket approach will put greater market pressures on the service providers to enhance the scope of services offered. I.e, the day is coming that they'll bring a glass fiber into the back of your house (or perhaps offer a wireless broadband LAN) with greatly expanded capabilities. This probably wouldn't happen so fast (if at all) if we still had multiple providers with a mix of transmission technologies. I take that back. There IS a noticeable difference albeit a tiny one. When we get a lot of rain, the 40+ year old telco hard wires get wet and you get some crosstalk between subscriber lines and some AC hum. The buried coax with RF multiplexing is not vulnerable to this condition. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice From: "Matt Prather" Interesting observations Bob. One other thing I have noticed while talking (conferencing) with my family in SoCal and Japan is that Skype running on my laptop has better voice quality (perceived bandwidth) than using landlines or cell phones. PC-PC is best, and any combination of "phone" is not as good. There also seems to be less overall delay on Skype to Japan. Regards, Matt- > > > At 06:37 AM 8/28/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w >>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 >>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> >>Forgive me for using this forum but its the best source I could think >>of....... >> >>Interested in opinions on why digital phone service from the cable TV >>company might be better than service from the old phone company.? >>Dale Ensing >>DO NOT ARCHIVE > > If the product performs as expected, then there is no > "better" or "worse" to be considered. We have an integrated > Cable-Internet-Phone service here and for all practical purposes, > there has been no observable degradation or enhancement of > phone service. One thing to consider is the fact that all > your communication comes in and goes out on one wire. A > single point of vulnerability/failure for the whole apple > cart. > > But after about 2 years of using this service, I'm unaware > of any feature or performance issues that would suggest > that the change was not a good thing to do. > > In some respects, going the all-eggs-in-one basket > approach will put greater market pressures on the > service providers to enhance the scope of services > offered. I.e, the day is coming that they'll bring > a glass fiber into the back of your house (or perhaps > offer a wireless broadband LAN) with greatly expanded > capabilities. This probably wouldn't happen so fast > (if at all) if we still had multiple providers with > a mix of transmission technologies. > > I take that back. There IS a noticeable difference > albeit a tiny one. When we get a lot of rain, the 40+ > year old telco hard wires get wet and you get some > crosstalk between subscriber lines and some AC hum. > The buried coax with RF multiplexing is not vulnerable > to this condition. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:29 AM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rotax electrical switches I am building my Zenith 701/Rotax 912 electrical system following Aeroelectric's Z16 diagram because I trust that Bob Nuckolls knows a hell of a lot more about aircraft electrical systems than I do. I don't even know enough to fully understand the use of the two switches in the diagram. I would appreciate if Bob or someone who understands this diagram can tell me how to use switch S1 (the double poll double throw switch) and the switch attached to the endurance buss. I also need to understand what type of switch this second one is. It looks like a single poll on-off type but I'm not certain because it has a "^" symbol in it. Thanks for the help, Les ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:46 PM PST US From: Michael Ice Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rotax electrical switches Les, If you don't have Bob's book buy it. If you do then read the chapter on switches about 5 times. That is the number I am up to and I think I am about to "get it". Good luck, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Les Goldner Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rotax electrical switches > I am building my Zenith 701/Rotax 912 electrical system following > Aeroelectric's Z16 diagram because I trust that Bob Nuckolls knows > a hell of > a lot more about aircraft electrical systems than I do. I don't > even know > enough to fully understand the use of the two switches in the > diagram. I > would appreciate if Bob or someone who understands this diagram > can tell me > how to use switch S1 (the double poll double throw switch) and the > switchattached to the endurance buss. I also need to understand > what type of > switch this second one is. It looks like a single poll on-off type > but I'm > not certain because it has a "^" symbol in it. > > Thanks for the help, > Les > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:17 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: A simple ECU Thanks Ken I had not checked the price of Megasquirt it is cheaper than I expected. I guess I am interested in making something like the EC2 series from Real World Solutions, but will take a closer look at the Megasquirt. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 10:35 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: A simple ECU Peter Google "megasquirt efi" for an under $200. system and lots of related info. Not recommended for aviation of course but I run one as a manually selectable backup to my main subaru efi. I have mine configured with the inputs that you describe and it is fine for my purposes. For everyday use it would benefit from connecting a TPS (throttle position sensor) acceleration enrichment, or one could run the code that enriches based on delta MAP. A water temp (cylinder or oil temp for you) sensor would also be handy for starting and warmup but I don't use mine for startup. There are some schemes for doing this with analog electronics but the megasquirt is definately the way to do it nowadays and about as simple as I could find. I have a manual mixture tweaking knob but it is not needed (especially if one has an engine emp sensor) and if it isn't there - it can't fail. I use an old 486 laptop for programming. If you are only going to have a primary controller I'd suggest googling SDS EFI. That would most likely require re-arranging your flywheel pickups but it would have "established" reliability. I think there are thousands of megaquirt units in use but each is somewhat different and subject to unique failures. Megasquirt has very little capability of keeping the engine running after a sensor or wire failure compared to oem or even the SDS system. Ken Peter Harris wrote: > > > I am in the process of installing a simple TBI system to the Jabiru > 3300. Just two injectors in a spigot type throttle body which takes > the place of the Bing, it works from a MAP sensor and air temp sensor, > the ECU is triggered from the flywheel magnets. We are using a regular > automotive ECU which is a giant overkill and very expensive. > > We can trim the mixture using a pot if required. > > My question is has anyone seen a simple programmable unit that could > be programmed with a pot, a switch and a digital dial. The programming > would be done by select injector time and enter as required. We would > keep the manual over ride. > > What would be the elements of such a simple ECU ? Any idea where I > could get some help would be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Peter H > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:19 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A simple ECU From: "mikef" Peter, >>I guess I am interested in making something like the EC2 series from Real World Solutions, but will take a closer look at the Megasquirt. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131469#131469 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:21 PM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NOT airplane related-digital phone sevice I have both a regular Telco phone line and digital phone service from the cable TV company and can make two observations after 2 years of dual service: 1) Having 1 line of each type appears to be better than having both of the same type (see Z-14) 2) The differences are very local and specific to the actual physical characteristics of the wire installation. In other words, I can not point to any service qualities that are intrinsic to the providers or the technologies. Some experiences: - the Telco line has been down 3 times in 2 years. One was a "local switch" problem and the other 2 were inadvertant cuts to the buried line on my property. The (also buried) cable line was not effected so a level of service was maintained. - My data service to the cable modem has 'burped' several times but the phone service thru the same device was maintained. - A power surge from a thunderstorm took a computer and the cable modem down. Though it took a day to get everything back up, the digital phone service was in place in the time it took the modem to reboot. with no further action required. - I have cross-talk between the 2 lines just as I had before switching one line to digital. The problem apparently caused by house wiring. - I use the two lines interchangeably to make and receive a variety of calls. I can perceive no difference in quality or anything else. Interestingly, the clearest sounding international call I have ever recieved was from a US cellphone roaming in Beijing... and received on my cellphone. Go figure. I've found the digital phone service surprisingly solid and have no qualms about using it exclusively. Both providers seem pretty motivated right now so service has been very responsive in both cases. Bill "trying to wire my RV10 with a Z-14" Watson do not archive Dale Ensing wrote: > Forgive me for using this forum but its the best source I could think > of....... > > Interested in opinions on why digital phone service from the cable TV > company might be better than service from the old phone company.? > Dale Ensing > DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:21 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: A simple ECU Mike at this stage I am gathering information. There is a lot I like about the EC2 but I would like to do it myself and cheaper. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikef Sent: Wednesday, 29 August 2007 8:17 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A simple ECU Peter, >>I guess I am interested in making something like the EC2 series from Real World Solutions, but will take a closer look at the Megasquirt. 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