---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/03/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:22 AM - Re: Rohs (Rob Turk) 2. 05:36 AM - Re: Rohs (N395V) 3. 05:44 AM - Re: 60A Buss fuse attached to baffling? No () 4. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Rohs (Kevin Horton) 5. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Rohs (Michael T. Ice) 6. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Rohs (Walter Fellows) 7. 04:47 PM - Re: Rohs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 05:02 PM - Re: How to check and alternator?? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 05:23 PM - Re: Thermoelectric Generators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 07:49 PM - how long for extra wiring to reach panel from wing? (Carl Peters) 11. 08:07 PM - Re: how long for extra wiring to reach panel from wing? (Don Vs) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:46 AM PST US From: "Rob Turk" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rohs Dont want to get into a political discussion, and as a European citizen I agree that many of these regulations are way over the edge, but I must object to your "shove it down America's throat" comment. Europeans and other people around the world are experiencing America's self-centered rules and regulations every day, from invasions on our privacy (database searches through our private bank information by the CIA), stupid security measures at our domestic airports because of US regulations, privacy invasions with background searches for each flight, and ridiculous impact on our businesses (Sarbanes-Oxley, DMCA). So when Americans are asked to comply with world-wide regulations this has nothing to do with 'shoving through your throat'. Besides, if it was such a big deal, the US would have ignored the RoHS guidelines alltogether (Kyoto anyone?!?) Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rohs > > > As one who works for one of those big suppliers of electronic equipment to > DOD I can tell you that there certainly have been problems with lead free > soldering of components. The biggest one is called "tin whiskers". Over > time the large amount of tin used in the lead-free process tends to > migrate > from place to place on the circuit boards (in microscopic traces, hence > the > whisker notation) and shorts out electronic components, not a good > thing!!! > I really wouldn't care if the Europeans wanted to further trash their > societies with all this "sky is falling" hysteria on every little > so-called > pollutant, or their ridiculous affinity for political correctness and > socialism, if they weren't always trying to shove it down America's throat > as well. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Tampa Bay area ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:08 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rohs From: "N395V" > Europeans and other people around the world are experiencing America's > self-centered rules and regulations every day, from invasions on our privacy > (database searches through our private bank information by the CIA), stupid > security measures at our domestic airports because of US regulations, > privacy invasions with background searches for each flight, and ridiculous > impact on our businesses Real easy to solve Rob, Better protection on your computers, do not allow flights to or from the U.S., do not allow U.S. products in your country, do not ship any of your products to the U.S. If there are any American Military bases in your country take them over, shut them down and send our servicemen home. Then encourage all your neighboring countries to do the same. I am sure Russia and China will be happy to become your new best friends and certainly they will be more than happy to help out if a time of great need ever arises. Of course they will never try to impose any self centered rules upon you and will never snoop through your databases. Or maybe you could cozy up to Iran, they have oil to sell. The French can always be counted on to lend a hand also. do not archive -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132472#132472 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:16 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 60A Buss fuse attached to baffling? No Tim: I think you have it backwards, you are trying to protect the battery. I would not put it on the shaking rattling Lycoming. It may take it but your do add fatigue to anything vibrating, although based in the above, its a moot point, protect the battery and put the 60 amp fuse on the firewall. George >From: Tim Lewis >Subject: AeroElectric-List: 60A Buss fuse attached to baffling? > >Does anybody know >if those devices can take the heat/vibration associated with being >mounted on the baffling, right near the alternator? That location >would >provide fuse protection to almost the entire length of alternator >wiring, but is in a high heat/vibration environment. > >Thanks, Tim Lewis --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:34 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rohs This discussion could become a complete fur ball very quickly. We aren't going to solve all the world's political, environmental, terrorism, etc problems here, as there are too many different viewpoints, each of which is perceived as correct in the eyes of its holder. How about we all just agree to disagree on any non-AeroElectric issues, and go back to subject areas that properly belong on this List. Kevin Horton On 3 Sep 2007, at 08:34, N395V wrote: > > > >> Europeans and other people around the world are experiencing >> America's >> self-centered rules and regulations every day, from invasions on >> our privacy >> (database searches through our private bank information by the >> CIA), stupid >> security measures at our domestic airports because of US regulations, >> privacy invasions with background searches for each flight, and >> ridiculous >> impact on our businesses > > > Real easy to solve Rob, > > Better protection on your computers, do not allow flights to or > from the U.S., do not allow U.S. products in your country, do not > ship any of your products to the U.S. > > If there are any American Military bases in your country take them > over, shut them down and send our servicemen home. Then encourage > all your neighboring countries to do the same. > > I am sure Russia and China will be happy to become your new best > friends and certainly they will be more than happy to help out if a > time of great need ever arises. Of course they will never try to > impose any self centered rules upon you and will never snoop > through your databases. > Or maybe you could cozy up to Iran, they have oil to sell. > > The French can always be counted on to lend a hand also. > > do not archive > > -------- > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:15 AM PST US From: "Michael T. Ice" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rohs Kevin, I agree. First it is telephones, now it is geo politics. What's next? TV shows? And I can't even get a simple question answered concerning e/p mag wiring. Do not archive Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Horton" Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 5:33 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rohs > > > This discussion could become a complete fur ball very quickly. We aren't > going to solve all the world's political, environmental, terrorism, etc > problems here, as there are too many different viewpoints, each of which > is perceived as correct in the eyes of its holder. > > How about we all just agree to disagree on any non-AeroElectric issues, > and go back to subject areas that properly belong on this List. > > Kevin Horton > > On 3 Sep 2007, at 08:34, N395V wrote: > >> >> >> >>> Europeans and other people around the world are experiencing America's >>> self-centered rules and regulations every day, from invasions on our >>> privacy >>> (database searches through our private bank information by the CIA), >>> stupid >>> security measures at our domestic airports because of US regulations, >>> privacy invasions with background searches for each flight, and >>> ridiculous >>> impact on our businesses >> >> >> Real easy to solve Rob, >> >> Better protection on your computers, do not allow flights to or from the >> U.S., do not allow U.S. products in your country, do not ship any of >> your products to the U.S. >> >> If there are any American Military bases in your country take them over, >> shut them down and send our servicemen home. Then encourage all your >> neighboring countries to do the same. >> >> I am sure Russia and China will be happy to become your new best friends >> and certainly they will be more than happy to help out if a time of >> great need ever arises. Of course they will never try to impose any self >> centered rules upon you and will never snoop through your databases. >> Or maybe you could cozy up to Iran, they have oil to sell. >> >> The French can always be counted on to lend a hand also. >> >> do not archive >> >> -------- >> Milt >> 2003 F1 Rocket >> 2006 Radial Rocket >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:40 PM PST US From: "Walter Fellows" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rohs Agree or at least label the reference line as "POLITICAL COMMENT - NOT AIRPLANE RELATED." On 9/3/07, Michael T. Ice wrote: > > > Kevin, > I agree. First it is telephones, now it is geo politics. What's next? TV > shows? > And I can't even get a simple question answered concerning e/p mag wiring. > > Do not archive > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Horton" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 5:33 AM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Rohs > > > > > > > > This discussion could become a complete fur ball very > quickly. We aren't > > going to solve all the world's political, environmental, terrorism, etc > > problems here, as there are too many different viewpoints, each of > which > > is perceived as correct in the eyes of its holder. > > > > How about we all just agree to disagree on any non-AeroElectric issues, > > and go back to subject areas that properly belong on this List. > > > > Kevin Horton > > > > On 3 Sep 2007, at 08:34, N395V wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > >>> Europeans and other people around the world are > experiencing America's > >>> self-centered rules and regulations every day, from invasions on our > >>> privacy > >>> (database searches through our private bank information by the CIA), > >>> stupid > >>> security measures at our domestic airports because of US regulations, > >>> privacy invasions with background searches for each flight, and > >>> ridiculous > >>> impact on our businesses > >> > >> > >> Real easy to solve Rob, > >> > >> Better protection on your computers, do not allow flights to or from > the > >> U.S., do not allow U.S. products in your country, do not ship any of > >> your products to the U.S. > >> > >> If there are any American Military bases in your country take > them over, > >> shut them down and send our servicemen home. Then encourage all your > >> neighboring countries to do the same. > >> > >> I am sure Russia and China will be happy to become your new > best friends > >> and certainly they will be more than happy to help out if a time of > >> great need ever arises. Of course they will never try to impose any > self > >> centered rules upon you and will never snoop through your databases. > >> Or maybe you could cozy up to Iran, they have oil to sell. > >> > >> The French can always be counted on to lend a hand also. > >> > >> do not archive > >> > >> -------- > >> Milt > >> 2003 F1 Rocket > >> 2006 Radial Rocket > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rohs At 02:50 AM 9/3/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > >As one who works for one of those big suppliers of electronic equipment to >DOD I can tell you that there certainly have been problems with lead free >soldering of components. The biggest one is called "tin whiskers". Over >time the large amount of tin used in the lead-free process tends to migrate >from place to place on the circuit boards (in microscopic traces, hence the >whisker notation) and shorts out electronic components, not a good thing!!! >I really wouldn't care if the Europeans wanted to further trash their >societies with all this "sky is falling" hysteria on every little so-called >pollutant, or their ridiculous affinity for political correctness and >socialism, if they weren't always trying to shove it down America's throat >as well. Political issues aside, the biggest problems we're looking at with respect to RoHS compliance are the 100F higher flow temps of present lead-free offerings. In days of yore, one was advised to hold the lead wires of a solid state device with a pair of needle nose pliers while soldering the joints . . . so as to preclude damage to the fragile "chip" . . . nowadays, we run boards chips and all through big ovens designed to flow little pads of solder paste upon which each component sits. 63/37 PbSn is the lowest temp product to date. The 100F jump in flow temps for the new solders presents some big reliability issues for components "cooked" at higher temperatures. The lead free solders are not as resistant to cracking under vibration and yes, there's the tin-whiskers. For the moment, aviation is exempt from the lead-free push in Europe but it's probably inevitable. It's been suggested that all future devices assembled with 63/37 PbSn be fitted with warning labels and return postage guaranteed back to the point of origin. The idea is that when the device is ready for the scrap heap, one simply drops it in the nearest mailbox and the "problem child" is whisked back to its parents! It would be interesting to bury a bunch of old TV sets and come back in 20 years to do soil samples and see just how far the problem material has migrated into the soil. Even if we DID find noteworthy elevations of lead, what is the significance of the finding? It's not like this is a new thing. Aspen CO went through a long ordeal with the EPA a few years ago. See: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo2k0_are-we-scaring-ourselves-to-death-3_news Folks in this part of the world decided to mount the great battle through environmental regulation (not laws mind you but requirements drafted by folks with no real knowledge, understanding or accountability). In other parts of the world, they've crafted restrictions against commerce but the same quality of administrators are tasked with the job of making us all "safe". Whatever the outcomes, it's not going to be cheap, the lives saved will be un-quantified, and the folks writing/enforcing the regulations today will be retired at 75% of base pay patting themselves on the back for having "done a good job". For me at least, I never miss a chance to stock up on my favorite forms of 63/37 . . . and I'm not planning to change over soon. The risk and expense for not doing it are incalculable while the risks for jumping on the band-wagon are real and demonstrable. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:50 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: How to check and alternator?? At 04:30 AM 9/2/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Bob !! > > >Thanks for the help and suggestions !! I really appreciate you and all I >learn from you. > >So, I did exactly as you said, and you are 100% correct. I left on a >bunch of stuff for about 10 minutes, then started the plane and >immediately noticed the ammeter was slightly on the negative side, maybe >reading about 4 negative amps. The voltage read just under 15 volts - >say 14.7 the whole time and stays there but within about 3 minutes, the >ammeter came back up to zero and stayed there. > >I wired the ammeter and external shunt as per Van's Aircraft instructions >and my brother Danny (which you've all heard from many times) says there >are 2 other ways (according to Dynon) to wire the ammeter which I might do. > >I'm not sure of the best or correct way to wire the ammeter but at least >now I know my alternator is working perfectly and THAT makes me happy. > >Maybe I should leave it alone since I now know exactly what it's reading. > >Thanks for your input and suggestions. Sounds like your ammeter is a bit big for the job and it may be wired backwards too. Normally, one expects to see a STRONG + reading while the battery is being replenished, a near ZERO reading while the alternator is carrying ships loads and the battery is charged, and a STRONG - reading when the alternator is off and everything thing is turned on. Your "slightly negative" observation while charging the battery tells me it is too small and wired backwards. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:13 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Thermoelectric Generators At 07:46 PM 8/31/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > >I don't know how many your "hand-full of watts" are but here is a source >of thermoelectric generators in the 2.5 to 19 watt range. Certainly >wouldn't run an all electric airplane, but might keep your radios >running. They also offer a DC-DC converter to provide a regulated 12V output. Yeah, compared to the 1.5KW peak power demand on the cable TV power supply, these are a hand-full of watts. These are still a lot better than Seebeck effect devices but one is still challenged to maximize temperature differentials between hot and cold surfaces. The kerosene lantern devices worked better if one sat next to it and fanned the outside surface to provide forced air cooling! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:35 PM PST US From: Carl Peters Subject: AeroElectric-List: how long for extra wiring to reach panel from wing? I'm currently wiring my RV-9A wings, and want to leave enough wire at the root to reach the panel uninterrupted, as opposed to putting in a plug or butt splice. What is an estimated length to be safe? Thanks. Carl ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:55 PM PST US From: "Don Vs" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: how long for extra wiring to reach panel from wing? If it were me I would wait until the fuse is mostly together and the wings are on for fitting. If you have the instruments etc installed it is easy to feed the wires down to the fuse sides and coil them up until the wings go on for good. It is easy to slide the wires through a conduit in the wings rather than try to feed them up into the panel area. Hope this helps. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carl Peters Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 7:48 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: how long for extra wiring to reach panel from wing? I'm currently wiring my RV-9A wings, and want to leave enough wire at the root to reach the panel uninterrupted, as opposed to putting in a plug or butt splice. What is an estimated length to be safe? Thanks. Carl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.