---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/27/07: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:43 AM - Hall Effect sensor Ammeter(was Question about an Aux Alternator) (Carlos Trigo) 2. 04:38 AM - wiring 101 (Rick Johnson) 3. 05:07 AM - Re: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator (Andrew Butler) 4. 05:15 AM - Re: Comm Antenna (Todd Heffley) 5. 05:26 AM - Re: Looking for GPS hook up! (Bruce Bell) 6. 05:39 AM - Re: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . (Chuck Jensen) 7. 05:43 AM - Re: wiring 101 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 05:51 AM - Re: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 06:31 AM - Re: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 10. 06:47 AM - Re: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 08:37 AM - Re: Question about an Aux Alternator (melkel2000) 12. 08:57 AM - Re: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator (Matt Prather) 14. 09:52 AM - Re: Question about an Aux Alternator (melkel2000) 15. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 10:20 AM - Ground Plane on Carbon (Dennis Johnson) 17. 11:08 AM - Re: Ground Plane on Carbon (Ernest Christley) 18. 02:23 PM - Re: Rear-Battery version of Z-19 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 03:07 PM - Re: Ground Plane on Carbon (Peter Harris) 21. 05:34 PM - Trim Servo Speed Controller (Richard Reynolds) 22. 05:56 PM - Re: Trim Servo Speed Controller (Peter Harris) 23. 05:59 PM - Re: Comm Antenna (sarg314) 24. 08:09 PM - High temp p-lead wire..... (Jim Baker) 25. 08:47 PM - Re: High temp p-lead wire..... (Ron Quillin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:34 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hall Effect sensor Ammeter(was Question about an Aux Alternator) Using a Hall Effect sensor, what kind of digital panel mounted Ammeter should be used? Can anyone please indicate a brand, a model and a source? How are the connections (wiring) made? Thanks Carlos > > > > At 08:02 PM 9/26/2007 -0600, you wrote: > > > > >Run both alternator b-leads through one hall effect sensor - (requires a > >controller circuit or different kind of ammeter)? > > That works! I have a number of readers who have done > just that. Of course, the hall effect ammeter needs to > run from the e-bus so that it is ALWAYS active under > any operating condition. > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:13 AM PST US From: Rick Johnson Subject: AeroElectric-List: wiring 101 Greetings A basic question, I am ready to install radios and some of the drawings sh ow 2 aircraft 14v power pin outs going to a single circuit breaker using aw g 22 and then to the bus. I am using fuse blocks and want to know if I shou ld join the wires to a single tab on the fuse block and what is the proper techninique for doing so? Thanks in advance Rick _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Space s. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends. aspx&mkt=en-us ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:50 AM PST US From: "Andrew Butler" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator Hi Bob, Do you supply the AEC9005? I don't see it on your website Can this module be used to monitor the voltage on the Endurace bus powered by an SD-8 during main alt out? I know that the load is supposed to be predictible, but lets say I wanted to use the AEC9005 to check the SD-8 during pre-flight checks? Andrew. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:17:50 -0600 At 05:55 PM 9/26/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > Hi again Bob: > > I do in fact have a B&C regulator. > > Let's use Figure Z-13 as the baseline. Two changes I would like to make: > > 1-Wire both alternators to a single shunt. > > 2-Eliminate the LR-3. > > KJ Which aux alternator do you have? If an SD-8 why not wire exactly like Z-13/8 and forget the shunts completely or put a shunt in the main alternator only. When you're operating from the SD-8, your loads are KNOWN and PREDICTABLE. There's good reasons for wiring as shown. See description for Z-13 on page 3 of http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11K.pdf You can use any other combination of voltage regulator, http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_SS_Reg.jpg ov protection http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/OVM-14_C.jpg and low voltage warning http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/9005_OBS/9005.jpg to replace an LR3 . . . but if you already have one, why do you want to replace it? Bob . . . =========== =========== =========== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:35 AM PST US From: Todd Heffley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm Antenna > However if I check the continuity between the center pin of the BNC > connector and the metal whip/rod/antenna I get no needle deflection. Dan. The antenna is coupled with a "transformer" and the center pin does not connect to the whip. This is normal with a good quality com antenna. todd ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:39 AM PST US From: "Bruce Bell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for GPS hook up! Hi Bob, That was it! Thank you very much. Regards, Bruce Bell DO NOT ARCHIVE! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:23 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for GPS hook up! > > > At 06:35 PM 9/26/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> >>Hi Bob, >>A connector was installed in the instrument panel and to the aircraft's >>electrical system. The other connector replaced the connector that was >>supplied with the GPS. You had photos along with the drawing. Your idea >>took place of installing a cigarette type receptacle. >>Regards, >>Bruce > > Hmmmm . . . I looked for any drawings on this topic and didn't > come up with anything. I DO have a couple of connector pairs > that have been suggested for this task. See: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Power/RS274-010.jpg > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Power/RS274-013.jpg > > as one suitable combo and . . . > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Power/Hand_Held_Power.jpg > > as an alternative. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . From: "Chuck Jensen" If you can keep thousands of battery workers generating positive cash flow by kicking Duracell's butt, is that not a fundamental condition that made your computer so inexpensive and a good bottle of wine to be had for under $10? Bob, A good bottle of wine for under 10 bucks---are you kidding? I gave up on <$10 wine when I kept getting cuts on my fingers from the screw caps. Filtering it through white bread helped the taste a little but my advice is don't drink anything that doesn't at least have a plastic cork in it....though I do highly recommend the wine comes in those cute cardboard containers with a plastic bag in it. Just remember, you get what you pay for. Be careful out there! :-) Chuck ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:51 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: wiring 101 At 07:35 AM 9/27/2007 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings >A basic question, I am ready to install radios and some of the drawings >show 2 aircraft 14v power pin outs going to a single circuit breaker using >awg 22 and then to the bus. I am using fuse blocks and want to know if I >should join the wires to a single tab on the fuse block and what is the >proper techninique for doing so? The most desirable practice is to have each power feed to appliances have separate protection. It's not "unsafe" to run more than one appliance from a single fuse . . . but a failure in one circuit will take down all devices that feed from that fuse. If your referring to manufacturer's drawings for installing their product and two wires go to a single breaker, then it may well be that the designer WANTS both feeds to go down if there's a fault in one of the feeds. Without specific explanation in the installation instructions, it's a guess. It's pretty unusual to see the arrangement you describe in an installation manual so I'm thinking that perhaps it's a considered, purposeful arrangement. Having said that, the risks are low to follow the manufacturer's instructions. Likelihood of ANY fault on either line opening the circuit protection is low . . . and there are probably hundreds of other failures within the devices that can take them out of service and NOT open the protection. So, unless you want to mount the academic exercise to contact the manufacturer for clarification, I'll suggest you wire it as shown in the manual and don't loose any sleep over it. You DO plan to carry Dark Panel Syndrome vaccination in your flight bag, no? See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator At 12:04 PM 9/27/2007 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Bob, > >Do you supply the AEC9005? I don't see it on your website It's slated to be replaced by the AEC9011 later this year and there are other suppliers of similar products. >Can this module be used to monitor the voltage on the Endurace bus powered >by an SD-8 during main alt out? Yes, in fact I have some builders who have used the lv warning system to do selective load shedding (clumsy but it works). Keep turning things off until the lv warning light stays out. It's far better to have plan-b loads pre-selected and part of your alternator-out ops checklist. > I know that the load is supposed to be predictible, but lets say I wanted to > use the AEC9005 to check the SD-8 during pre-flight checks? Yes, but the "test" may be time-dependent . . . and it presupposes that total loads on the system do not exceed the SD-8 output capability at pre-flight run-up speeds. Far better that you sense the output current and simply observe that the SD-8 picks up a load irrespective of bus voltage and system loads. Does your system have any other voltmeter functions in it? For example, with minimum loads on system, when you turn the main alternator off and the SD-8 on, any rise in bus voltage no matter how slight is a good indication that the SD-8 is alive and well. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:55 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." But quickbuilt in foreign markets because labor is cheaper...that foreign market could be overseas, or in your garage, foreign market or outsourced labor these days only means labor not directly associated with the original producers bottom line. And yes Vans can lay claim to your labor as their own, attend any one of there get togethers and they will tell you that more than 1.5 airplanes a day are being put in the air by Vans aircraft, they are laying claim to being the largest producer of aircraft, and I would agree, they make the kits and outsource the labor but their name is still ending up on the end product...regardless of who is final assembling the product it is still recognized as a Vans RV. And yes I have assembled an RV10, and even though it is not registered as a Vans RV, it is still accounted for as an RV Dan N289DT RV10E -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdalton77 Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:15 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . I don't suppose you read the papers? How many Chinese products have had seriousquality problems this year? As far as being "25 years out of date" - I'm in the computer business, so I know about borders. But you do the math - batterries for $.21? I wouldn't call that a 'free market economy' - I'd call that a "slave wages economy." Each to his own though - have fun with China - I'm building a Vans - made in the USA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Watson" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:41 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . > > > I think your perception is a little (maybe 25 years) out of date. I > believe > China is the fastest growing free market economy in the world, but still > governed by a communist political dictatorship. Try to go for a day > without > using a product from "Red" China (vs. Taiwan). Stay away from your > computer, > watch out for that coffee cup, don't try to use a pen or watch TV or > answer > your phone. Like it or not, we now live in a world economy. Not buying > Chinese products is akin to not buying products from say Nebraska. Borders > don't mean what they used to, and I think we are all better off for it. > But > I will agree that we need to be even more careful about the quality of the > products we buy. Country of origin is no longer a reliable indicator of > quality, or of the degree of freedom of the workers who built it. > > Terry > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jdalton77 > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:54 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . > > > > Yes, Chinese slave labor makes Harbor Freights products cheap. Of course, > they could blow up or leak. > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:39 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Harbor Freight AA cells on sale . . . At 09:29 AM 9/27/2007 -0400, you wrote: > > >But quickbuilt in foreign markets because labor is cheaper...that >foreign market could be overseas, or in your garage, foreign market or >outsourced labor these days only means labor not directly associated >with the original producers bottom line. And yes Vans can lay claim to >your labor as their own, attend any one of there get togethers and they >will tell you that more than 1.5 airplanes a day are being put in the >air by Vans aircraft, they are laying claim to being the largest >producer of aircraft, and I would agree, they make the kits and >outsource the labor but their name is still ending up on the end >product...regardless of who is final assembling the product it is still >recognized as a Vans RV. >And yes I have assembled an RV10, and even though it is not registered >as a Vans RV, it is still accounted for as an RV An interesting perspective sir. Thank you for sharing that. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:25 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator From: "melkel2000" I do indeed have the rectifier regulator...at least what I have looks like the one in the picture Bob linked. There is no number on it. I don't physically have the LR-3. I was referring to it in regards to the Z-13. Regarding the hall effect sensor comment. I'm running a Dynon FlightDEK-D180 as my main instrument. It has the ability to read current and voltage. In its manual, it states that for current, I have the option to use the GRT CS-01 hall effects sensor. So running both B leads through this sensor will do what I'm looking to do and that is to read the current of both alternators combined. The reason for this is that I don't want to have a separate ammeter for the aux alternator. I want it all to go through the Dynon. I suppose I could have some sort of selector switch set up to determine which alternator the Dynon is displaying as well right? I don't think I ever got an answer on this one: Is it not a good idea to run both alternators to a single shunt? Bob has commented that the SD-8 has known qualities and suggested that a case can be made for not using an ammeter for it. I personally want the ability to look at the output in flight. If a light comes on I'd like to have a warm fuzzy that the SD-8 is indeed putting out. OK, to sum it up, this is what I understand: 1-Yes, the LR-3 can be replaced in the Z-13 diagram by the Plane Power alternator because its built in OV protection circuit is adequate. 2-Bob says that the Plane Power alternator warning light output is not recommended and that a separate warning system per Bob's book should be used. 3-Normal operation would be to run both alternators simultaneously because the rectifier regulator for the aux is set for 1 volt lower and will relax during normal operation. Do I understand this correctly? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136778#136778 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:21 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I bought 2 shunts and a mini double pole (on-on) switch from radio shack. Th panel is labelled "alt1/2" and the output of the switch wired to the Dynon. I can simply select which alt I wish to measure that way. Frank RV7a -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of melkel2000 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:35 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator --> I do indeed have the rectifier regulator...at least what I have looks like the one in the picture Bob linked. There is no number on it. I don't physically have the LR-3. I was referring to it in regards to the Z-13. Regarding the hall effect sensor comment. I'm running a Dynon FlightDEK-D180 as my main instrument. It has the ability to read current and voltage. In its manual, it states that for current, I have the option to use the GRT CS-01 hall effects sensor. So running both B leads through this sensor will do what I'm looking to do and that is to read the current of both alternators combined. The reason for this is that I don't want to have a separate ammeter for the aux alternator. I want it all to go through the Dynon. I suppose I could have some sort of selector switch set up to determine which alternator the Dynon is displaying as well right? I don't think I ever got an answer on this one: Is it not a good idea to run both alternators to a single shunt? Bob has commented that the SD-8 has known qualities and suggested that a case can be made for not using an ammeter for it. I personally want the ability to look at the output in flight. If a light comes on I'd like to have a warm fuzzy that the SD-8 is indeed putting out. OK, to sum it up, this is what I understand: 1-Yes, the LR-3 can be replaced in the Z-13 diagram by the Plane Power alternator because its built in OV protection circuit is adequate. 2-Bob says that the Plane Power alternator warning light output is not recommended and that a separate warning system per Bob's book should be used. 3-Normal operation would be to run both alternators simultaneously because the rectifier regulator for the aux is set for 1 volt lower and will relax during normal operation. Do I understand this correctly? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136778#136778 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator From: "Matt Prather" A shunt is used to measure current in a wire by inserting a known, small resistance in that wire. A meter is wired across this known resistance. The reading on the meter is calibrated to show current based on how much voltage is dropped across the shunt. Man shunts are at full scale with a 50mV drop. In order to run to a single shunt on both alternators, the output of the alternators would need to be hard wired together. Certain fail modes on one alternator might lead to the other alternator not being able to generate any output. Additionally, having both alternators wired together may make regulation a challenge. If you'd like to use shunt vice hall effect, I propose that you use two shunts and then add a switch so that you can select which is driving your instrumentation. Regards, Matt- > > > I do indeed have the rectifier regulator...at least what I have looks like > the one in the picture Bob linked. There is no number on it. > > I don't physically have the LR-3. I was referring to it in regards to the > Z-13. > > Regarding the hall effect sensor comment. I'm running a Dynon > FlightDEK-D180 as my main instrument. It has the ability to read current > and voltage. In its manual, it states that for current, I have the option > to use the GRT CS-01 hall effects sensor. So running both B leads through > this sensor will do what I'm looking to do and that is to read the current > of both alternators combined. The reason for this is that I don't want to > have a separate ammeter for the aux alternator. I want it all to go > through the Dynon. I suppose I could have some sort of selector switch set > up to determine which alternator the Dynon is displaying as well right? > > I don't think I ever got an answer on this one: Is it not a good idea to > run both alternators to a single shunt? > > Bob has commented that the SD-8 has known qualities and suggested that a > case can be made for not using an ammeter for it. I personally want the > ability to look at the output in flight. If a light comes on I'd like to > have a warm fuzzy that the SD-8 is indeed putting out. > > OK, to sum it up, this is what I understand: > > 1-Yes, the LR-3 can be replaced in the Z-13 diagram by the Plane Power > alternator because its built in OV protection circuit is adequate. > > 2-Bob says that the Plane Power alternator warning light output is not > recommended and that a separate warning system per Bob's book should be > used. > > 3-Normal operation would be to run both alternators simultaneously because > the rectifier regulator for the aux is set for 1 volt lower and will relax > during normal operation. > > Do I understand this correctly? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136778#136778 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:06 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator From: "melkel2000" Thanks! The switch is a great idea but how about this? I'm really more interested in what is going in and out of the battery. I want to know if it is charging or discharging. If it's charging, I don't necessarily care where the juice is coming from. My idiot lights will tell me if my main alt is inop anyway. So, what if I eliminate the two shunts as depicted in Figure Z-13 and put one in the appropriate line leading eventually to the battery but not in the starter circuit? That should do what I'm looking for right? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136804#136804 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Sure that will work, I believe that's one of the ways Dynon suggests you wire up the shut anyway. It is debatable whether you even need an ammeter at all..I.e if you set your low voltage alarm for 12v and use the Dynon audible output then you know when you have a low battery voltage and therefore a malfunctioning alternator. I don't honestly remember when I had to use my ammeter, even when I did an operational check of my SD8...I just knew the batt voltage alarm went off when I hit the transmit button... Cheers Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of melkel2000 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator --> Thanks! The switch is a great idea but how about this? I'm really more interested in what is going in and out of the battery. I want to know if it is charging or discharging. If it's charging, I don't necessarily care where the juice is coming from. My idiot lights will tell me if my main alt is inop anyway. So, what if I eliminate the two shunts as depicted in Figure Z-13 and put one in the appropriate line leading eventually to the battery but not in the starter circuit? That should do what I'm looking for right? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=136804#136804 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:56 AM PST US From: "Dennis Johnson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Plane on Carbon Hi Dan, I installed antenna ground planes on the outside of my carbon fiber Legacy. Bob is right that there are big advantages of doing it inside the fuselage, but for the comm antenna on the Legacy, it is difficult because of the many obstructions inside. Putting the ground plane on the outside was way easier. I made the comm antenna ground plane out of 1/4" wide adhesive backed copper foil strips available from stained glass supply stores, making them the length that Bob advises. I made eight "spokes" or radials equally spaced around the antenna mounting location. I soldered the foil radials to each other where they met at the center in a way that it would make good contact with the antenna base. Then I covered each foil radial with deck cloth saturated with epoxy to keep the radials permanently attached to the carbon fiber belly. The foil is so thin that with a little body work, it makes a nearly imperceptible bump. Besides, it's on the belly where nobody can see it anyway. I've been flying since March. I have no way of quantifying it, but my experience with the type of long distance cross country flights that the Legacy is suited for, I'm happy with the performance of my radio. Bob has often observed that these unquantified testimonials aren't all that valuable, but it's all I've got and I think it may be better than nothing. The interesting thing is that there are Legacy builders who've done just about every ground plane variation possible, including no ground plane at all, and they all seem satisfied with their antenna's performance. It could be we're worrying over nothing? Dennis ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:13 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground Plane on Carbon Dennis Johnson wrote: > I made the comm antenna ground plane out of 1/4" wide adhesive backed copper foil strips available from stained glass supply stores, making them the length that Bob advises. RST-Engineering sells a kit with a roll of the copper foil tape and a handful of the ferrite torroids for something like $30. The big bonus is the manual that describes all sorts of options and guidelines for how to use them. The education is worth the price of admission. The materials that enable you to go out and use what you learned is a bonus. http://www.rst-engr.com/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:03 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Rear-Battery version of Z-19 At 10:49 PM 9/26/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >Bob, > >On the Eggenfellner Subaru the starter contactor is on the starter. Should >I run the fat wire from the aft mounted battery contactor through the >firewall to the starter contactor or maybe stop at an insulated bus bar on >the cockpit side of the firewall and branch from there to starter contactor >and the main bus? Your choice . . . you could tie the alternator b-lead feed to the starter have only one wire to bring through to contactor behind the firewall. >I am concerned that an engine fire might take out the fat wire and thus the >main bus. > >Of course I guess that is no more catastrophic than any other cause of power >supply failure to the main bus? If you have an engine fire, I suspect that loss of electrical power is the least of your concerns. In fact, with any detected fire, I'd be tempted to turn all the power off anyhow. >Also, should I place an ANL current limiter between the output of the >battery contactor(s) and the fat wire going forward? Z19-RB does not show >any protection for the fat wire. Or is none needed and if so, why not? Wire as shown. FAT wires are not generally needing "protection" in light aircraft and there have been no incidents that suggest such protection needs to be added. See: http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_23-1357.html . . . the fat wires for battery to starter and battery to distribution bus fall into categories (1) and (2). This is why you will not find the protection you've suggested in about a 250,000 aircraft manufactured since 1945. Bob. . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:24 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about an Aux Alternator > >I don't physically have the LR-3. I was referring to it in regards to the >Z-13. The Z-figures are to suggest ARCHITECTURE only, there are a host of alternator, regulator, ov-protection, lv-warning combinations that will happilly integrate into the Z-13 archtecture. >Regarding the hall effect sensor comment. I'm running a Dynon >FlightDEK-D180 as my main instrument. It has the ability to read current >and voltage. In its manual, it states that for current, I have the option >to use the GRT CS-01 hall effects sensor. So running both B leads through >this sensor will do what I'm looking to do and that is to read the current >of both alternators combined. The reason for this is that I don't want to >have a separate ammeter for the aux alternator. I want it all to go >through the Dynon. I suppose I could have some sort of selector switch set >up to determine which alternator the Dynon is displaying as well right? If you have a voltage reading on the display, then you can live quite happily with no shunts whatsoever. >I don't think I ever got an answer on this one: Is it not a good idea to >run both alternators to a single shunt? Only if your willing to abandon the features depicted in the Z-figures. There are reasons why they'll crafted as shown. You can certainly depart in any manner you choose and you will no doubt achieve some level of functionality. But it's up to you to decide if that's what you want. I get dozens of emails every month extolling the virtus of one z-figure or another followed by a narrative of all the things the writer wants to change and wants me to somehow bless the changes. I don't have the time to take on another consulting task and it's doubtful that the writer would want to pay my outrageous fees. Further, he's at risk that I would still recommend that he stay with one of the z-figures and then bill him for the advice. So please understand that I'm not trying to be a hard-ass on some sort of not-invented-here syndrome. I'm only pointing out that what you see is what you get and the price is certainly right. If your personal requirements depart from the recommendations, that's fine with me but please don't expect me to spend a lot of time either supporting or trying to dissuade you from making the changes. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:06 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ground Plane on Carbon I once saw an antenna installation using a single loop of wire which was glued inside the hull as a full circle and which acted like a toroid, no ground plane fitted. The operator claimed he was happy with the performance. I would like to find out some more about the design length if anyone knows. Peter H _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Johnson Sent: Friday, 28 September 2007 3:20 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ground Plane on Carbon Hi Dan, I installed antenna ground planes on the outside of my carbon fiber Legacy. Bob is right that there are big advantages of doing it inside the fuselage, but for the comm antenna on the Legacy, it is difficult because of the many obstructions inside. Putting the ground plane on the outside was way easier. I made the comm antenna ground plane out of 1/4" wide adhesive backed copper foil strips available from stained glass supply stores, making them the length that Bob advises. I made eight "spokes" or radials equally spaced around the antenna mounting location. I soldered the foil radials to each other where they met at the center in a way that it would make good contact with the antenna base. Then I covered each foil radial with deck cloth saturated with epoxy to keep the radials permanently attached to the carbon fiber belly. The foil is so thin that with a little body work, it makes a nearly imperceptible bump. Besides, it's on the belly where nobody can see it anyway. I've been flying since March. I have no way of quantifying it, but my experience with the type of long distance cross country flights that the Legacy is suited for, I'm happy with the performance of my radio. Bob has often observed that these unquantified testimonials aren't all that valuable, but it's all I've got and I think it may be better than nothing. The interesting thing is that there are Legacy builders who've done just about every ground plane variation possible, including no ground plane at all, and they all seem satisfied with their antenna's performance. It could be we're worrying over nothing? Dennis ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:12 PM PST US From: Richard Reynolds Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim Servo Speed Controller Bob, Did you ever publish a DIY diagram for a speed controller for the Ray Allen trim servos? Richard Reynolds ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:15 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Trim Servo Speed Controller Same subject if I may ... I have no space to fit the position indicators offered by Ray Allen but would like to use an LED to light each extreme position using the wiring supplied. Does anyone know how to make that work? Thanks Peter H -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Reynolds Sent: Friday, 28 September 2007 10:33 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim Servo Speed Controller Bob, Did you ever publish a DIY diagram for a speed controller for the Ray Allen trim servos? Richard Reynolds ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:57 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Comm Antenna Dan: I have the same antenna and made the same observation, however the antenna works fine. It appears to be a case of capacitive coupling. Dan Reeves wrote: > I recently purchased a Comant CI 122 bent whip comm antenna. If I > check the continuity between the base plate and the outer case > (ground) of the BNC connector, all is well. However if I check the > continuity between the center pin of the BNC connector and the > metal whip/rod/antenna I get no needle deflection. Do I have a > defective antenna? > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:35 PM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: AeroElectric-List: High temp p-lead wire..... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Tho not precicely OBAM directed.... Bellanca Viking aircraft have a soon-to-be-implemented AD to re- route p-leads from a common Cannon connector on the left firewall to separate leads to each side of the upper firewall....somehow the FAA believes this will result in a safer aircraft after the outbreak of a fire in the engine compartment ( caused by a related exhaust system failure which will most likely be a concurrent AD with the p-lead issue). The question is this.....I've looked at several wire specs, such as MIL-W-25038/3, and the specs are adequate but there doesn't seem to be any shielded wire in this spec. Is there such a product? Or is there another product more suitable? Thanks... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: High temp p-lead wire..... From: Ron Quillin Jim, The core wire being used in the proposed Bellanca P-lead AD is indeed M25038/3, but the full spec for the shielded cable is either M27500-20JF1N06 or M27500-22JF1N06. I couldn't get the supplier to confirm wire gauge, but based on existing cable my bet would be on the 20AWG. Ron Q. At 19:59 9/27/2007, you wrote: >The question is this.....I've looked at several wire specs, such as >MIL-W-25038/3, and the specs are adequate but there doesn't seem to >be any shielded wire in this spec. Is there such a product? Or is >there another product more suitable? > >Thanks... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.