Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:09 AM - Re: Retractable Landing Light (Rob Turk)
2. 05:49 AM - Re: Retractable Landing Light (Chuck Jensen)
3. 06:41 AM - Re: Retractable Landing Light (Steve Thomas)
4. 07:12 AM - Re: Mode S on the ground? (Darwin N. Barrie)
5. 08:17 AM - Re: Retractable Landing Light (Chuck Jensen)
6. 09:21 AM - (John Burnaby)
7. 11:10 AM - Re: (Charlie England)
8. 11:33 AM - Toggle switch needed (Paul Eckenroth)
9. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: FAA policy on circuit breakers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 12:14 PM - Re: Toggle switch needed (JOHN TIPTON)
11. 12:22 PM - Re: Toggle switch needed (JOHN TIPTON)
12. 02:14 PM - Re: Poor man's hi torque servo circuit (John Burnaby)
13. 02:24 PM - Re: Toggle switch needed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 03:28 PM - Re: Poor man's hi torque servo circuit (John Burnaby)
15. 10:19 PM - Re: FAA Policy on Circuit Breakers (MaxNr@aol.com)
16. 11:17 PM - Re: Re: FAA policy on circuit breakers (Jim Oke)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Retractable Landing Light |
That's a cool looking unit, but the specs mention "automotive lamps".
Would that get your precious A320 into the Experimental category??
;-)
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Thomas
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 1:14 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Retractable Landing Light
Some time ago there was some discussion on this topic. I don't
remember, but someone (maybe Bob?) was going to look into a design for a
retractable landing light. Anything new to report on this?
I found one really slick one. See: http://tinyurl.com/3bapfy but it
is designed for an Airbus 320.
Steve
Message 2
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Subject: | Retractable Landing Light |
Wow, that looks like the same unit I have on my Velo, but I need to
reread the specs. I thought I couldn't deploy it above 140 kts...its
actually 340 kts. Well that makes more sense. I was having to wait
until just before touch down to turn it one--that'll be a lot handier to
be able to use it in the pattern. :)
Chuck
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:14 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Retractable Landing Light
Some time ago there was some discussion on this topic. I don't
remember, but someone (maybe Bob?) was going to look into a design for a
retractable landing light. Anything new to report on this?
I found one really slick one. See: <http://tinyurl.com/3bapfy>
http://tinyurl.com/3bapfy but it is designed for an Airbus 320.
Steve
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Retractable Landing Light |
Chuck, where did you get the one for your Velo?
Best Regards,
Steve
____________________________________________________________________
On Sep 30, 2007, at 5:45 AM, Chuck Jensen wrote:
> Wow, that looks like the same unit I have on my Velo, but I need to
> reread the specs. I thought I couldn't deploy it above 140
> kts...its actually 340 kts. Well that makes more sense. I was
> having to wait until just before touch down to turn it one--that'll
> be a lot handier to be able to use it in the pattern. :)
>
> Chuck
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Mode S on the ground? |
The system works on "line of sight" with the source radar. So, if you
meet that criteria you should be able to get information. It doesn't
take much to block the radar.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
RV7 N717EE
Message 5
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Subject: | Retractable Landing Light |
At AirBus' Discount Dollar Store. Great selection but the minimum order
of $100,000 can be a problem.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Retractable Landing Light
Chuck, where did you get the one for your Velo?
Best Regards,
Steve
____________________________________________________________________
On Sep 30, 2007, at 5:45 AM, Chuck Jensen wrote:
Wow, that looks like the same unit I have on my Velo, but I need to
reread the specs. I thought I couldn't deploy it above 140 kts...its
actually 340 kts. Well that makes more sense. I was having to wait
until just before touch down to turn it one--that'll be a lot handier to
be able to use it in the pattern. :)
Chuck
Message 6
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Yes, another motor moves the sheet.RE the wiper motor being
unidirectional, The thought was, as Charlie suggested, to stop the motor
at BDC, when S2 opened, and when the sheet moved from contact with S2,
now closed, the motor would continue to run back to the "Park" position.
The departure from Charlie's example is that the cycle shouldn't require
any other operator input beyond depression of S1. This being a DC motor,
could not the power leads be swapped for the motor to run in reverse, if
desired?Here's the motor and its terminals.
http://www.scary-terry.com/wipmtr/wipmtr2.htm>I want to use a wiper
motor as a high torque servo on a machine that feeds
>sheet sheet goods through itself.
>
>Motor output shaft is at built-in "Park" position.
>
> Sheet edge is placed in position against limit Switch S1(NO) that
> closes to supply power to motor.
>
>S1 is attached to an arm, such that it moves out of the material line
of
>travel (and opens in the process) when the motor output shaft moves the
arm.
>
>Also attached to the arm is S2 (NC), which contacts the sheet and opens
>when the arm has moved to a target position. S2 interrupts power to the
>motor thus holding the output shaft and arm at the target position.
>
>When the sheet has passed S2, and it closes, I want the motor to start
and
>return to the built in "park position".
I take it some motivation other than your motor removed the sheet?
>I know this is probably child's play for some of you. I am
electronically
>challenged and, aside from being told to "Get a life!", I would like
the
>group's advice.
I'm not sure I have a correct image of your task. Windshield
motors are unidirectional . . . I.e. the act of powering it
OFF is really a signal to continue rotation in original direction
until the park position is reached. I presume you understand this.
Do you have the motor and does it have a built-in control
card for intermittent ops timing and hi/lo speed control?
If it's an older unit with no electronics, then wiring per
my present vision is pretty simple. If it has electronics,
you'll have to do some experimenting with reference to the
target vehicle's wiring diagrams to make it sing, dance and
do dishes.
It's been a LONG time since I used one of these motors to
a task and it had no electronics. However, I dug into my
Safarri wipers to fix an intermittent that was subject of
a recall. Found a poorly soldered joint which I fixed and
the motor ran another 150,000 miles. I recall the car's
wiring diagrams being pretty cryptic . . . fortunately
the problem was visibly obvious and I didn't need to
understand it.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
John Burnaby wrote:
> *Yes, another motor moves the sheet.*
>
> *RE the wiper motor being unidirectional, The thought was, as Charlie suggested,*
>
> * to stop the motor at BDC, when S2 opened, and when the sheet moved from*
>
> * contact with S2, now closed, the motor would continue to run back to the "Park"
position. *
>
> *The departure from Charlie's example is that the cycle shouldn't require any*
>
> * other operator input beyond depression of S1. This being a DC motor, *
>
> *could not the power leads be swapped for the motor to run in reverse, if desired?*
>
> *Here's the motor and its terminals. *
>
> http://www.scary-terry.com/wipmtr/wipmtr2.htm
>
> **
>
snipped
If something else is moving the sheet, allowing S2 to close, then the
motor should restart & run back to 'home' position.
Message 8
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Subject: | Toggle switch needed |
Greetings
I am looking for a replacement toggle switch for the S700-2-5 which is used
for the left mag (off - on - start). I have never been comfortable with the
possibility of continuing to start when moving from off to on during the run
up mag check. I would like to replace with a toggle switch incorporating a
lock on the momentary start position (up).
Any suggestions would be welcome except to incorporate an additional switch
or start button.
Paul Eckenroth
RIVA flying
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: FAA policy on circuit breakers |
At 08:11 PM 9/29/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Hi John,
>Remember that a number of type certificated aircraft are equiped with
>circuit breakers such as the P&B W31 series that are intended to be
>routinely used for switching devices on and off, as well as providing
>circuit protection. Of course that is from the CAA days, when the feds
>actually had some folks that knew something. Lets see, my TC aircraft has
>boost pump, pitot heat, rotating beacon, nav lights and landing lights on
>such breakers on its type certificate, and a couple more added later for
>STC approved equipment.The only failure mode I have seen is the internal
>springs get weak with age and they can nuisance trip, at which point they
>are due for replacement.
The W31 switch breakers don't exercise the
components that calibrate circuit breaker
trip when the switch portion is operated.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_1.jpg
Note that the trip latch and heater strut
maintain a constant, non-moving relationship
with each other as the switch side transitions
the contacts from closed to open.
Here's an excerpt from a posting I did about 2 years
ago on this product:
---------------
These are the switch breakers I've mentioned on several occasions
in the past and featured in the comic book at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Breakers/Breakers.html
The failure mode cited is NOT a short but an open that causes
the load path to shift. In the picture at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_3.jpg
you can see the two copper wire jumpers across moving
joints made up of little ropes of exceedingly fine strands
of wire. These are RATED at many thousands of cycles on the
data sheet . . . but it seems that the sum total of environmental
stresses as-installed are such that these critters fail in a few
thousand cycles. The failure begins as a breaking (or fusing)
of the last remaining strands of jumper.
This happens in the upper jumper. When that pathway is lost,
the switch-breaker's current still flows through the spring
that is intended to open the switch contacts when the lever
is moved to OFF. This spring is capable of carrying current
in the switch-breakers of smaller size . . . 5A and 10A but
in the Prop DeIce circuit of a Bonanza or Baron, the current is
so great as to cause the spring to glow cherry red and cause
surrounding plastic cases to char. This is what produces the
smoke. The amount of smoke was not nearly worthy of the doom
and gloom inferred by the AD.
The "fix" was to insert the plastic insulating sheet you can
see in the inside, upper left corner of the metal frame. This
prevents the spring from becoming a secondary load path and
the breaker fails passively by simply allowing the downstream
load to go OFF.
Cessna's decision to use this product as a master switch-breaker
was unfortunate. There was no need for this device to be a breaker too.
Selection of this part drove parts count up and drove reliability
down. If you must have an avionics master switch, the plain-jane
toggle is the device of choice. Better yet, leave it out entirely.
-------------------------
Switch=breakers are an entirely different breed of
cat. They're not vulnerable to the adverse performance
conditions demonstrated by routinely using a pull-type
circuit breaker as an operating switch. This is also
a separate issue from the discussion about adverse
effects on a switched system whether by pulling a breaker
or interrupting power by any other means.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Toggle switch needed |
Aircraft - Spruce has the switch you need
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eckenroth" <Jeckenroth@NBN.NET>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:30 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch needed
> <Jeckenroth@NBN.NET>
>
> Greetings
>
> I am looking for a replacement toggle switch for the S700-2-5 which is
> used for the left mag (off - on - start). I have never been comfortable
> with the possibility of continuing to start when moving from off to on
> during the run up mag check. I would like to replace with a toggle switch
> incorporating a lock on the momentary start position (up).
>
> Any suggestions would be welcome except to incorporate an additional
> switch or start button.
>
> Paul Eckenroth
> RIVA flying
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Toggle switch needed |
Sorry: not Aircraft Spruce
Eaton Corporation -
http://www.commercialcontrols.eaton.com/VCBU/catalog/commcat2/TF300_10.pdf
page: A14
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eckenroth" <Jeckenroth@NBN.NET>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:30 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch needed
> <Jeckenroth@NBN.NET>
>
> Greetings
>
> I am looking for a replacement toggle switch for the S700-2-5 which is
> used for the left mag (off - on - start). I have never been comfortable
> with the possibility of continuing to start when moving from off to on
> during the run up mag check. I would like to replace with a toggle switch
> incorporating a lock on the momentary start position (up).
>
> Any suggestions would be welcome except to incorporate an additional
> switch or start button.
>
> Paul Eckenroth
> RIVA flying
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Re: Poor man's hi torque servo circuit |
>snipped
>If something else is moving the sheet, allowing S2 to close, then the
>motor should restart & run back to 'home' position.The wiper motor's
primary function is to actuate a pinch roller, thus engaging the sheet
goods to a drive roller that carries them through the machine. S2 is
mounted on the pinch roller arm to sense the presence of a sheet. When
S2(NC) contacts the sheet and opens, it should stop the wiper motor at
BDC. When the sheet passes and S2 closes, the motor activates and moves
from BDC to "Park". At least, that's the plan.
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Toggle switch needed |
At 08:15 PM 9/30/2007 +0100, you wrote:
><jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
>
>Sorry: not Aircraft Spruce
>
>Eaton Corporation -
>http://www.commercialcontrols.eaton.com/VCBU/catalog/commcat2/TF300_10.pdf
>
>page: A14
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Eckenroth" <Jeckenroth@NBN.NET>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:30 PM
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Toggle switch needed
>
>
>><Jeckenroth@NBN.NET>
>>
>>Greetings
>>
>>I am looking for a replacement toggle switch for the S700-2-5 which is
>>used for the left mag (off - on - start). I have never been comfortable
>>with the possibility of continuing to start when moving from off to on
>>during the run up mag check. I would like to replace with a toggle
>>switch incorporating a lock on the momentary start position (up).
You need a microswtich 2TL1-5L as described in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/tl_series.pdf
Now, the fun part is to find it in stock anywhere. Leverlock
switches tend to be special orders. The mil-spec is
MS24659-31L You will probably find more folks who know what
it is by the mil-spec number . . . but finding real parts
will be the challenge.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Poor man's hi torque servo circuit |
Previous post should have read:>snipped>If something else is moving the
sheet, allowing S2 to close, then the
>motor should restart & run back to 'home' position.Charlie,That's the
idea. What I don't know how to do is how to use the closed S1 as a
signal for the wiper motor to start AND remain powered until S2 senses
the sheet and shuts off power to the wiper motor, now at BDC. S1 drops
out of the sheet path and opens so I can't use it in series with S2.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: FAA Policy on Circuit Breakers |
I have been lurking on this list for a while trying to learn a little about
electrical systems, but I cannot bite my tongue any longer. As stated in AC
120-80, the manufacturer many times in the Flight Manual includes the use of
C.B.s to disable systems to check systems on run up or to deal with in flight
malfunctions or emergencies. Some C.B.s have colored collars to help in locating
in emergencies. Available at ACS, Sporties and other fine shops. The last A/C
(Sikorsky 76 series) that I flew before retiring was such an A/C. Most C.B.s
don't even have a corresponding on/of switch. I have a lot of war stories where
we got things back under control by finding and pulling the right C.B. Chip
lights for example. As for resetting in flight: About 25 years ago, I was single
pilot, had passengers on board and trying to land in heavy rain. The Pilot's
Windshield Wiper C.B. repeatedly popped. I used my emergency options as PIC to
hold the C.B. in and chance a fire in order to land (one handed) safely. You
got to do what you got to do. There was no fire, maintenance readjusted the
wiper tension and all was fine. As for simulating EFIS failure, they all have a
brightness knob and you can make it go dark that way. It will then go into
reversion mode for you. I discussed the subject bulletin this evening with my
friend who is a Maint Inspector/AI for my old company. He lost it. The only thing
that he said that was printable on a family web site was something about
"know nothing white shirts hiding in the FAA office." Sorry for pouring gas on
a
fire. I'm retired remember.
RTD
**************************************
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: FAA policy on circuit breakers |
Kevin Horton wrote:
> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> On 29 Sep 2007, at 14:34, John W. Cox wrote:
>
>> To second a comment that was projected earlier, I do not consider
>> installation of CBs on the primary flight instrument panel to be a
>> prudent use of valuable real estate. Nor are they particularly
>> aesthetically pleasing to look at for the life of the panel. Leaves a
>> conundrum as to where to place them, how easy to read/see which one pops
>> Open and how easy to open them when necessary as a procedural switch
>> during that rare occurrence.
>
>
> I agree that CBs should be located so that they can be confirmed as IN
> during pre-flight checks. But once you are in flight, I am not
> convinced that we need easy view or access. Typically the first sign
> of a problem is when you notice that some piece of equipment is no
> longer functioning. At that point, does it really matter whether the
> failure is caused by a popped CB, a wire that has come off a terminal,
> or a failure of the item itself? Why do you need to be able to easily
> see the CB?
>
> If a piece of equipment has a potential failure mode that would
> require removing its power supply, it should probably be wired through
> a switch, or you should plan on killing power to the bus that powers
> it (only acceptable if you can accept the loss of all other items on
> that bus). You shouldn't plan on pulling the CB, as they can
> sometimes be very difficult to grab on to.
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
One example of the situation Kevin describes in his second paragraph is
the aileron trim on the FAR 25 aircraft I fly in my 'day' job. If it
quits dead due to motor burn out somewhere near the neutral position
that's one thing. If the operating rocker switch fails so as to drive it
to full travel in one or the other direction that's another and probably
more demanding situation with obvious aircraft handling implications.
The manufacturer's procedure for a runaway trim is to attempt to use the
operating switch to drive the trim to neutral and then pull the
associated circuit breaker to stop the trim in something close to the
neutral position. In this case there are lots of circuit breakers
relatively easy to access from the pilot seats so not really an issue to
add one more for the aileron trim for the once in 10,000 (or whatever)
flying hour that it needs to be pulled to disable the trim. The
alternative would be to add a dedicated trim disable switch that would
add parts and likely decrease overall reliability.
Of note, just about all the other 120 or so CBs on the airplane are
treated as "never reset except in dire emergency" devices.
Jim Oke
RV-6A
Wpg., MB
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