Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:05 AM - Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring (Noel Karppinen)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring (Ken)
3. 11:33 AM - Re: Fuse panel location ()
4. 12:24 PM - Z-19 (Revised) Emergency Operations ()
5. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring (Peter Harris)
6. 06:49 PM - Re: WireMaster (Schloss)
7. 07:27 PM - Re: WireMaster (Neal George)
8. 07:37 PM - Music inputs (Ralph Hoover)
9. 07:44 PM - Re: WireMaster (Ernest Christley)
10. 08:54 PM - 14V verus 28V (Jeff Page)
11. 09:31 PM - Re: 14V verus 28V (rtitsworth)
12. 10:56 PM - Re: Re: Wire (MauleDriver)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring |
Hi Ken
You said:
>I have a relay
> between the alternator and the regulator for control and overvolt
>cutoff. It does not take a robust contactor there as it is AC current
>and that relay also lets me kill power to a misbehaving regulator. The
>B+ output of the regulator has a CB (a fuse would be fine) to protect
>against excess battery current going into a misbehaving regulator.
Thanks for the infornmation. I had wondered about the possibility of
isolating the regulator from the alternator, but I have not seen any
previous references to this being done. Could you confirm that I have
understood this correctly. i.e that you do not have any relay between the
regulator output and the main bus, just the circuit breaker.
Noel Karppinen
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring |
Noel Karppinen wrote:
>Hi Ken
>
>You said:
>
>>I have a relay
>> between the alternator and the regulator for control and overvolt
>>cutoff. It does not take a robust contactor there as it is AC current
>>and that relay also lets me kill power to a misbehaving regulator. The
>>B+ output of the regulator has a CB (a fuse would be fine) to protect
>>against excess battery current going into a misbehaving regulator.
>
> Thanks for the infornmation. I had wondered about the possibility of
> isolating the regulator from the alternator, but I have not seen any
> previous references to this being done. Could you confirm that I have
> understood this correctly. i.e that you do not have any relay between
> the regulator output and the main bus, just the circuit breaker.
>
> Noel Karppinen
Yes that is correct Noel. Actually I thought the current Z figure had
also been changed to show that now. I run an electrically dependant
engine so neither the alternator or the battery bus go through another
battery contactor or relay. Another reason to do this might be that I
have also found that the John Deere regulator fails instantly if run
with a totally dead battery -which is about the same as not having a
battery connected. (My little AGM batteries simply won't accept any
significant current initially if they are totally dead) Maybe the big
capacitor would protect against that but I have doubts.
Peter the little VF4 relays just use our common PIDG push on
connections. You can mount the relay in a socket if you wish but that
is not necessary. I think B&C also sell a slightly different suitable
relay in a plastic case that does not use a socket.
Ken
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fuse panel location |
Great job on documenting your work for the Bearhawk Eric. You should be
an instructor. I will borrow your swing out panel idea or build a swing
down panel using a cut-out portion of my avionics shelf on the co-pilots
side.
Question: Where did you get the electronic amp sensor? Great idea. Also,
it looks like you did not use a shunt in front of your ANL?
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse panel location
--> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
Eric Newton wrote:
> <enewton57@cableone.net>
>
> Here is a webpage from my Bearhawk builder's site on how I set up my
> Fuse panel which is hinged and can swing out for easy access.
>
> http://mybearhawk.com/finish/electrical2.html
I'll try to get some pictures later tonight, but for everyone using
these fuse blocks...
You can get 90* 1/4" push-on fittings. I (fortunately) have a friend
with the expensive crimper, 'cause he uses bags of them in his
business. These are VERY nice to have when you're trying to fit the
fuse-block in a tight space like Eric is doing.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Z-19 (Revised) Emergency Operations |
Ok,
So let's assume I have Z-19 installed as written. What would be
the normal operating procedure for moving the power/engine switches in
the event of failures...
1. Alternator goes poop.
2. Field wire breaks off at the connector (I've seen this one a few
times. Not sure why the wire used is still so light).
3. Master battery moves to low voltage.
4. ANL blows (I know, that's extreme).
5. Starter engages and won't quit.
6. Fuel Pump #1 goes poop and I need to switch on secondary power and
fuel pump #2 but all else is normal.
7. Cockpit fire.
Assumptions - this is an electrically dependent engine and therefore I
always need at least one fuel pump/ecu. The rest is out the window.
Thanks
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring |
Thanks Ken.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2007 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring
Noel Karppinen wrote:
>Hi Ken
>
>You said:
>
>>I have a relay
>> between the alternator and the regulator for control and overvolt
>>cutoff. It does not take a robust contactor there as it is AC current
>>and that relay also lets me kill power to a misbehaving regulator. The
>>B+ output of the regulator has a CB (a fuse would be fine) to protect
>>against excess battery current going into a misbehaving regulator.
>
> Thanks for the infornmation. I had wondered about the possibility of
> isolating the regulator from the alternator, but I have not seen any
> previous references to this being done. Could you confirm that I have
> understood this correctly. i.e that you do not have any relay between
> the regulator output and the main bus, just the circuit breaker.
>
> Noel Karppinen
Yes that is correct Noel. Actually I thought the current Z figure had
also been changed to show that now. I run an electrically dependant
engine so neither the alternator or the battery bus go through another
battery contactor or relay. Another reason to do this might be that I
have also found that the John Deere regulator fails instantly if run
with a totally dead battery -which is about the same as not having a
battery connected. (My little AGM batteries simply won't accept any
significant current initially if they are totally dead) Maybe the big
capacitor would protect against that but I have doubts.
Peter the little VF4 relays just use our common PIDG push on
connections. You can mount the relay in a socket if you wish but that
is not necessary. I think B&C also sell a slightly different suitable
relay in a plastic case that does not use a socket.
Ken
Message 6
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Hello All,
I'm getting ready to order from WireMaster but the prices they are
quoting are much higher than previously posted on this list.
I have asked for prices on MIL-W-22759. They said there are several
types of wire with that number. They have asked me for additional
numbers or letters that follow the 22759 which is not the wire size.
Can anyone help me with the full MIL SPEC Number?
thanks
phil
----- Original Message -----
From: John McMahon
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WireMaster
Hi Phil,
Several of us have dealt with them and have been very satisfied.
Deb Sullivan
Account Executive
WireMasters, Inc.
Phone: 800-635-5342
Fax: 615-791-6182
Email: dsullivan@ wiremasters.net
Web site: http://www.wiremasters.net/
On 10/5/07, Philip W. Schloss < Bluebird@townsqr.com> wrote:
Can someone give me a phone number of web address for WireMaster
Thanks
phil
John McMahon
Lancair Super ES, S/N 170, N9637M (Reserved)
Message 7
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Phil -
I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996.
He'll ask you three questions: What size? What color? How long? Then
he'll thank you for your business. And ship the same day.
You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at a good price,
quite possibly less than advertised. And you'll be supporting one of our
own in the process. And you won't feel as guilty when you call next year
asking for help (pointers?) with your avionics wiring.
neal
==================
Hello All,
I'm getting ready to order from WireMaster but the prices they are quoting
are much higher than previously posted on this list.
I have asked for prices on MIL-W-22759. They said there are several types
of wire with that number. They have asked me for additional numbers or
letters that follow the 22759 which is not the wire size.
Can anyone help me with the full MIL SPEC Number?
thanks
phil
Message 8
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Per Garmin 340 manual. This is also standard practice in the audio industry.
Tip = Left
Ring = Right
Sleeve = Common
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
Message 9
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Schloss wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I'm getting ready to order from WireMaster but the prices they are quoting are
much higher than previously posted on this list.
>
> I have asked for prices on MIL-W-22759. They said there are several types of
wire with that number. They have asked me for additional numbers or letters
that follow the 22759 which is not the wire size.
>
> Can anyone help me with the full MIL SPEC Number?
>
>
MIL-W-22759/16-22-0
that's 22AWG black
MIL-W-22759/16-22-9
that's 22AWG white, green is 5 and red is 2
MIL-W-22759/16-18-2
that's green 18AWG
Did you ask for Deb Sullivan. Prices fluctuate, but my invoice is dated
3/07/2006.
--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown
Message 10
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Bob, I just read your comments on Greg Richter's "Aircraft Wiring For
Smart People". I found it very enlightening, since I had originally
accepted most of it at face value. I really like your style of
including the references for your facts. I am eagerly awaiting my
copy of your book to eventually be delivered by Canada Post that I
ordered a week ago.
One part of your comments that most interested me was characteristics
of the choice of a 14V versus 28V system. Prior to any thought at
all, I had assumed I would build a 14V airplane. Greg's article
originally prompted me to consider a 28V one.
Most equipment will work happily with any voltage. A few parts are a
little harder to get, or slightly more expensive. Many aircraft
manufacturers now produce 28V products. Cessna has built many more
aircraft than I have, so holding them up as an example seems
practical. So I have been planning a 28V airplane.
The only hitches I have found so far, is that the company I might buy
an inexpensive autopilot from sells only 14V servos and Dynon sells
only a 14V heated pitot tube. This can be solved with a DC-DC
converter, but that adds a nice heat source under the instrument panel
and another part to fail (although not a critical one for a VFR only
airplane).
So after reading your comments, and realizing that Dynon expects that
virtually all of their market to build 14V aircraft, I am back to
thinking I should build a 14V system. This certainly simplifies a few
things.
Before I make the final decision for 14V, do you know of any important
reasons in favor of a 28V system ? Most reasons, such as slightly
lighter weight are insignificant really.
Thanks,
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 11
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Jeff,
Lots of emotion on 24v vs 28v - features and compromises on both sides.
One advantage of 28v is often overlooked is that: essentially twice the
power is available from the alternator for essentially the same alternator
weight. This comes into play if you're building an all electric, dual
alternator bird. The backup alternator is typically smaller than he main
one. With a 28v system the smaller backup alternator (say 20 amps = 480
watts) will power more stuff, than a similar 14v Alternator (20 amps = only
280 watts). That may or may-not be significant depending on the bird you're
building and/or it's mission profile.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Page
....Before I make the final decision for 14V, do you know of any important
reasons in favor of a 28V system ? Most reasons, such as slightly
lighter weight are insignificant really. Thanks,
Jeff Page
Message 12
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Yes they are. Both the ring terminals and the splices are 2 pieces of
tinned plated copper with a plastic sleeve. Looks like the knife locks
are too. There is a selection of ring terminals for both various wire
sizes and post sizes. They are all listed according to "mil spec" codes
such as MS-25036-102 for a #6 ring and 22/18 AWG wire. The AV/24 -
Aviation Electrical Maintenance Kit from Terminaltown.com is in a nice
metal case with 24 plastic labeled compartments with ring terminals,
splices, wire caps, and knife locks. It was $200. The 'Molex' kit
with crimper was $90. Don't know how those prices compare but it was a
good start for me.
Thanks for the lesson and the link to your pdf.
BTW, B&C and Steinair are my main suppliers but I found TerminalTown to
be a good supplier of this kit and a few other OBAM oriented items. I
think Wm Curtis had mentioned them in a post.
I'm not affiliated with any of the above.
Bill "still wiring my RV10" Watson
Durham NC
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> DJ, I bought a Christmas basket of tools and connectors from Terminal
>> Town a while ago. I don't know enough to recommend anything but next
>> time you come by you'll have to take a look. One connector kit
>> contained a good selection of ring terminals and crimp on connectors.
>> The other kit a selection of Molex connectors. All the tools are
>> Eclipse brand. Spent about $400 including some tools I'm sure you
>> already have.
>> <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
> Are the terminals PIDG style. I.e. three piece with the
> metal liners inside the insulation-grip sleeves?
>
> See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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