Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: WireMaster (Bill Settle)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: Fuse panel location (Eric Newton)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: 14V verus 28V (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:40 AM - Re: 14V verus 28V (N395V)
6. 10:01 AM - Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? (mikef)
7. 11:18 AM - Re: Wiremaster (Speedy11@aol.com)
8. 11:18 AM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? ()
9. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: 14V verus 28V (david stroud)
10. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: 14V verus 28V (Bruce Gray)
11. 12:07 PM - Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring (DaveG601XL)
12. 12:13 PM - Fusible Link - is length of wire a concern? (mikef)
13. 12:26 PM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selectio (mikef)
14. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Wiremaster (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
15. 12:56 PM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? (Matt Prather)
16. 03:00 PM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse se (mikef)
17. 06:29 PM - Re: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 06:36 PM - Re: music inputs (Emrath)
19. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: music inputs (Carl Morgan)
20. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: 14V verus 28V (Mike)
21. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: 14V verus 28V (rtitsworth)
Message 1
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I agree with Neal 100%. I met Stein at OSH this year for the first time... Great
Guy.
-------------- Original message from "Neal George" <n8zg@bellsouth.net>: --------------
Phil -
I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996.
He'll ask you three questions: What size? What color? How long? Then he'll
thank you for your business. And ship the same day.
You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at a good price, quite possibly
less than advertised. And you'll be supporting one of our own in the
process. And you won't feel as guilty when you call next year asking for help
(pointers?) with your avionics wiring.
neal
==================
Hello All,
I'm getting ready to order from WireMaster but the prices they are quoting are
much higher than previously posted on this list.
I have asked for prices on MIL-W-22759. They said there are several types of wire
with that number. They have asked me for additional numbers or letters that
follow the 22759 which is not the wire size.
Can anyone help me with the full MIL SPEC Number?
thanks
phil
<html>
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<DIV></DIV>
<P>I agree with Neal 100%. I met Stein at OSH this year for the first time...
Great Guy.</P>
<P><BR> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message from "Neal George" <n8zg@bellsouth.net>:
-------------- <BR><BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16525" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Phil - </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>He'</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>ll ask you three questions: What size?
What color? How long? </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Then he'll thank you for your business.
And ship the same day.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at
a good price, quite possibly less than advertised. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And you'll
be supporting one of our own in the process. And you won't feel as guilty
when you call next year asking for help (pointers?) with your
avionics wiring. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>neal</FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN class=484380102-10102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2> ================== </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello All, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm getting ready to order from WireMaster but the
prices they are quoting are much higher than previously posted on this list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have asked for prices on MIL-W-22759.
They said there are several types of wire with that number. They have asked
me for additional numbers or letters that follow the 22759 which is not the
wire size.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Can anyone help me with the full MIL SPEC Number?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>phil</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2></B></FONT> </DIV><PRE><B><FONT
face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse panel location |
Thanks for the kind words.
The donut AMP pickup device goes with my Grand Rapids EIS system (as an
option you have to purchase). No shunt needed with the amp device.
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
BH #682- Mississippi Mudbug
BEARHAWK BUILDER'S MANUALS
http://mybearhawk.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <longg@pjm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuse panel location
>
> Great job on documenting your work for the Bearhawk Eric. You should be
> an instructor. I will borrow your swing out panel idea or build a swing
> down panel using a cut-out portion of my avionics shelf on the co-pilots
> side.
>
> Question: Where did you get the electronic amp sensor? Great idea. Also,
> it looks like you did not use a shunt in front of your ANL?
>
> Thanks
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ernest Christley
> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 5:28 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse panel location
>
>
> --> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Eric Newton wrote:
>> <enewton57@cableone.net>
>>
>> Here is a webpage from my Bearhawk builder's site on how I set up my
>> Fuse panel which is hinged and can swing out for easy access.
>>
>> http://mybearhawk.com/finish/electrical2.html
> I'll try to get some pictures later tonight, but for everyone using
> these fuse blocks...
>
> You can get 90* 1/4" push-on fittings. I (fortunately) have a friend
> with the expensive crimper, 'cause he uses bags of them in his
> business. These are VERY nice to have when you're trying to fit the
> fuse-block in a tight space like Eric is doing.
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring |
At 09:00 AM 10/9/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Noel Karppinen wrote:
>
>>Hi Ken
>>
>>You said:
>>
>>>I have a relay between the alternator and the regulator for control and
>>>overvolt cutoff. It does not take a robust contactor there as it is AC
>>>current and that relay also lets me kill power to a misbehaving
>>>regulator. The B+ output of the regulator has a CB (a fuse would be
>>>fine) to protect against excess battery current going into a misbehaving
>>>regulator.
>>
>>Thanks for the infornmation. I had wondered about the possibility of
>>isolating the regulator from the alternator, but I have not seen any
>>previous references to this being done. Could you confirm that I have
>>understood this correctly. i.e that you do not have any relay between the
>>regulator output and the main bus, just the circuit breaker.
>>
>>Noel Karppinen
>
>Yes that is correct Noel. Actually I thought the current Z figure had
>also been changed to show that now. I run an electrically dependant
>engine so neither the alternator or the battery bus go through another
>battery contactor or relay. Another reason to do this might be that I
>have also found that the John Deere regulator fails instantly if run with
>a totally dead battery -which is about the same as not having a battery
>connected. (My little AGM batteries simply won't accept any significant
>current initially if they are totally dead) Maybe the big capacitor would
>protect against that but I have doubts.
>
>Peter the little VF4 relays just use our common PIDG push on
>connections. You can mount the relay in a socket if you wish but that is
>not necessary. I think B&C also sell a slightly different suitable relay
>in a plastic case that does not use a socket.
>
>Ken
>
>
>--
>269.14.6/1060 - Release Date: 10/9/2007 4:43 PM
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 14V verus 28V |
At 11:52 PM 10/9/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Bob, I just read your comments on Greg Richter's "Aircraft Wiring For
>Smart People". I found it very enlightening, since I had originally
>accepted most of it at face value. I really like your style of
>including the references for your facts. I am eagerly awaiting my
>copy of your book to eventually be delivered by Canada Post that I
>ordered a week ago.
>
>One part of your comments that most interested me was characteristics
>of the choice of a 14V versus 28V system. Prior to any thought at
>all, I had assumed I would build a 14V airplane. Greg's article
>originally prompted me to consider a 28V one.
>
>Most equipment will work happily with any voltage. A few parts are a
>little harder to get, or slightly more expensive. Many aircraft
>manufacturers now produce 28V products. Cessna has built many more
>aircraft than I have, so holding them up as an example seems
>practical. So I have been planning a 28V airplane.
>
>The only hitches I have found so far, is that the company I might buy
>an inexpensive autopilot from sells only 14V servos and Dynon sells
>only a 14V heated pitot tube. This can be solved with a DC-DC
>converter, but that adds a nice heat source under the instrument panel
>and another part to fail (although not a critical one for a VFR only
>airplane).
>
>So after reading your comments, and realizing that Dynon expects that
>virtually all of their market to build 14V aircraft, I am back to
>thinking I should build a 14V system. This certainly simplifies a few
>things.
>
>Before I make the final decision for 14V, do you know of any important
>reasons in favor of a 28V system ? Most reasons, such as slightly
>lighter weight are insignificant really.
Weight differences are minuscule to non-existent and very
few aircraft really need the 2x power capability for alternator
sizing . . . so the big driver for me is that when you go
28v you lock yourself out of all current automotive offerings
for devices (quite suitable for use on our airplanes) and you
have to build your own battery from 2x 12v devices or purchase
a "real" 24v battery - invariably more expensive and heavier
for the same contained energy.
There's just no compelling reason for considering 28v in
the first place unless you're planning on exploiting
the used/refurbished hardware from tens of thousands
of Cessnas . . . and that's a step backwards.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 14V verus 28V |
I built with a 28V system for what I thought were some good reasons and then had
to deal with the nightmare of much of what I needed not being available in 28V
so I had to add a converter (more weight and expense)
Then I had to add a 14v bus and wiring (more complexity)
Net result
More weight
More cost
More expense
Net benefit... I'll let you know if I ever realize any.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139188#139188
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| Subject: | Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? |
In looking at the Z-19 diagram I see the Endurance Bus (EB) is potentially fed
from the Main Power Distribution Bus (with a 7 amp fuse) or
the Main Battery Bus (with a 10 amp fuse). The EB contains 26 amps worth of fused
instruments and corresponding load.
1. Why are the fuses feeding the EB so much smaller than the potential load of
the EB? Would use exceeding the
7 amp and 10 amp fuses cause a blown fuse and loss of power to all of the EB?
2. Why are the fuse sizes different between the Main Power bus and Main Battery
bus, when feeding the EB?
Thanks for any clarifications,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139195#139195
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I concur. Prompt service from Stein. In one shipment he got the color
wrong and immediately shipped the correct one when I called. And he's one of
us
- not a huge corporation with twenty-five step answering system which forces
you to choose between english and spanish and an ordertaker who may be in
India.
Stan Sutterfield
I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996.
He'll ask you three questions: What size? What color? How long? Then
he'll thank you for your business. And ship the same day.
You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at a good price,
quite possibly less than advertised. And you'll be supporting one of our
own in the process. And you won't feel as guilty when you call next year
asking for help (pointers?) with your avionics wiring.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - |
Fuse selection?
Mike,
I'll wait for the Bob's definitive answer but this makes no
sense. That would be like adding a 100 am panel to your home and feeding
it off a 20 amp breaker in your main panel.
The lead from the main power bus to the endurance bus should be
a direct feed from the same terminal as the main feed. Between them is a
diode to prevent backflow if the e-bus alternate is used.
Also, I have an issue with the orphaned switch for fuel pump #2.
Why not integrate it with the engine primary and secondary switching?
Note that if fuel pump #1 makes trouble, this diagram provides no way to
isolate it, but rather one method to switch the bus that feeds it. With
switch #2 I can turn it off/on at will which is fine as a backup, but I
want that functionality for #1 also.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikef
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:56 PM
Subject: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions
- Fuse selection?
In looking at the Z-19 diagram I see the Endurance Bus (EB) is
potentially fed from the Main Power Distribution Bus (with a 7 amp fuse)
or the Main Battery Bus (with a 10 amp fuse). The EB contains 26 amps
worth of fused instruments and corresponding load.
1. Why are the fuses feeding the EB so much smaller than the potential
load of the EB? Would use exceeding the 7 amp and 10 amp fuses cause a
blown fuse and loss of power to all of the EB?
2. Why are the fuse sizes different between the Main Power bus and Main
Battery bus, when feeding the EB?
Thanks for any clarifications,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139195#139195
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 14V verus 28V |
I'm in a similar boat, Milt. I muckled onto a real nice Huosai engine,
prop and ss exhaust, then only to find a sweet deal on a Jasco 28v
alt. All dirt cheap so, for me, a good enough reason for 28v. I already
had a 14v King radio though and foolishly thought I'd go thru the 2 x 14v
battery combo and pull off 14v halfway with a battery equalizer, allowing
me to pick and choose the rest of the components 28 or 14 v only to learn
that the battery equalizer costs about $750 which is about what a new alt
would cost. So..my solution is to go mostly 28v with a drop converter to 14v
for one or two items. With a payload of 1,800 + lbs I don't need to watch
every ounce but I am mindful of it.
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
C-FDWS Christavia
Fairchild 51 under construction
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <airboss@excaliburaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V
>
> I built with a 28V system for what I thought were some good reasons and then
had to deal with the nightmare of much of what I
needed not being available in 28V so I had to add a converter (more weight and
expense)
>
> Then I had to add a 14v bus and wiring (more complexity)
>
> Net result
>
> More weight
> More cost
> More expense
>
> Net benefit... I'll let you know if I ever realize any.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 14V verus 28V |
The main reason Cessna, Piper, and Beech all went 28v is commonality of
production. There's nothing wrong with 28v, you just have to shop for your
electro whizzies at the local truck stop rather then at NAPA.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
Glasair III, 28v
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david
stroud
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V
I'm in a similar boat, Milt. I muckled onto a real nice Huosai engine,
prop and ss exhaust, then only to find a sweet deal on a Jasco 28v
alt. All dirt cheap so, for me, a good enough reason for 28v. I already
had a 14v King radio though and foolishly thought I'd go thru the 2 x 14v
battery combo and pull off 14v halfway with a battery equalizer, allowing
me to pick and choose the rest of the components 28 or 14 v only to learn
that the battery equalizer costs about $750 which is about what a new alt
would cost. So..my solution is to go mostly 28v with a drop converter to 14v
for one or two items. With a payload of 1,800 + lbs I don't need to watch
every ounce but I am mindful of it.
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
C-FDWS Christavia
Fairchild 51 under construction
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <airboss@excaliburaviation.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:35 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V
<airboss@excaliburaviation.com>
>
> I built with a 28V system for what I thought were some good reasons and
then had to deal with the nightmare of much of what I
needed not being available in 28V so I had to add a converter (more weight
and expense)
>
> Then I had to add a 14v bus and wiring (more complexity)
>
> Net result
>
> More weight
> More cost
> More expense
>
> Net benefit... I'll let you know if I ever realize any.
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring |
Bob,
If you meant to say something in your 10/09 posting, nothing got printed out that
I can see. I am also expecting to use a Jabiru engine with the PM alternator
and am interested in your input to this thread.
Thanks,
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, tail and wings completed,
fueslage almost done, engine next.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139225#139225
Message 12
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| Subject: | Fusible Link - is length of wire a concern? |
And another question :)
Question: is there a suggested maximum wire length used when incorporating fusible
links in a system? (or threshold for switching to something else?)
Background: I am building a Z-19 system for my pusher aircraft. The important electrical
components are all in the rear of the aircraft near the engine. This
includes the Main Power bus and Ammeter shunt. The Master switch and Ammeter
are located up front on the panel, being separated by about 10' of wire length
in both cases.
I am wondering if that is too far to run the fusible link wire from the Main power
bus to the Master switch. Same concern for the shunt to ammeter fusible links.
Thanks for input and advice,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139227#139227
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| Subject: | Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse |
selectio
I agree, it seems wrong. Which means I've probably missed something fundamental
with the design/diagram. Hopefully Bob will weigh in and shed some light. His
explanations routinely make things clearer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139229#139229
Message 14
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I would also agree that the service from Steinair is above and beyond,
Stein and his team are always there to help with avionics questions and
will work with you to resolve your problems, even if you were not a
customer.
That in my opinion is what makes a VAR, the value added reseller, and
Stein is definitely a value add.
Dan Lloyd
N289DT RV10E flying
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:13 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiremaster
I concur. Prompt service from Stein. In one shipment he got the color
wrong and immediately shipped the correct one when I called. And he's
one of us - not a huge corporation with twenty-five step answering
system which forces you to choose between english and spanish and an
ordertaker who may be in India.
Stan Sutterfield
I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996.
He'll ask you three questions: What size? What color? How
long? Then
he'll thank you for your business. And ship the same day.
You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at a good
price,
quite possibly less than advertised. And you'll be supporting
one of our
own in the process. And you won't feel as guilty when you call
next year
asking for help (pointers?) with your avionics wiring.
_____
See what's new
Message 15
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| Subject: | Z-19 E Bus feeder questions |
- Fuse selection?
As has been discussed, fuses are generally there to protect the wire.
Wire is sized to be electrically adequate (with margin - sometimes large)
and mechanically robust. The sizes of the fuses (and the total sum of the
values of the fuses) are only peripherally related to the total bus draw.
I would say that the size of the fuse feeding the e-bus should be
determined by what the actual loads will be. The wires fed by the e-bus
are already protected by the individual fuses. While 7A for the e-bus
feed might seem small, I question what single engine airplane would need
26A continuous on the endurance bus.
Free anecdotes (worth what you pay for it): My car has a 75A alternator,
but adding up the fuse values shows that the bus capacity is in the realm
of 175A.
Also, Z19 as drawn has a 16g feed. The 10C rise load for 16g is 12.5A -
far short of the 26A fuse load on the bus. That's okay for the reasons
mentioned above.
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Mike,
> I'll wait for the Bob's definitive answer but this makes no
> sense. That would be like adding a 100 am panel to your home and feeding
> it off a 20 amp breaker in your main panel.
>
> The lead from the main power bus to the endurance bus should be
> a direct feed from the same terminal as the main feed. Between them is a
> diode to prevent backflow if the e-bus alternate is used.
>
> Also, I have an issue with the orphaned switch for fuel pump #2.
> Why not integrate it with the engine primary and secondary switching?
> Note that if fuel pump #1 makes trouble, this diagram provides no way to
> isolate it, but rather one method to switch the bus that feeds it. With
> switch #2 I can turn it off/on at will which is fine as a backup, but I
> want that functionality for #1 also.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikef
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:56 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions
> - Fuse selection?
>
>
>
> In looking at the Z-19 diagram I see the Endurance Bus (EB) is
> potentially fed from the Main Power Distribution Bus (with a 7 amp fuse)
> or the Main Battery Bus (with a 10 amp fuse). The EB contains 26 amps
> worth of fused instruments and corresponding load.
>
> 1. Why are the fuses feeding the EB so much smaller than the potential
> load of the EB? Would use exceeding the 7 amp and 10 amp fuses cause a
> blown fuse and loss of power to all of the EB?
>
> 2. Why are the fuse sizes different between the Main Power bus and Main
> Battery bus, when feeding the EB?
>
> Thanks for any clarifications,
>
> Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139195#139195
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse |
se
Matt,
What you say makes sense. But what has me asking the questions is why the large
difference between the fuse size of the Main power bus and the listed components
on the Endurance Bus. Even if you cut the E-bus in half, amperage load-wise,
you still get a 13/7 mix. That just seems askew.
matt wrote: >>
As has been discussed, fuses are generally there to protect the wire.
Wire is sized to be electrically adequate (with margin - sometimes large)
and mechanically robust. The sizes of the fuses (and the total sum of the
values of the fuses) are only peripherally related to the total bus draw.
I would say that the size of the fuse feeding the e-bus should be
determined by what the actual loads will be. The wires fed by the e-bus
are already protected by the individual fuses. While 7A for the e-bus
feed might seem small, I question what single engine airplane would need
26A continuous on the endurance bus.
Free anecdotes (worth what you pay for it): My car has a 75A alternator,
but adding up the fuse values shows that the bus capacity is in the realm
of 175A.
Also, Z19 as drawn has a 16g feed. The 10C rise load for 16g is 12.5A -
far short of the 26A fuse load on the bus. That's okay for the reasons
mentioned above.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139268#139268
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? |
At 09:56 AM 10/10/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>In looking at the Z-19 diagram I see the Endurance Bus (EB) is potentially
>fed from the Main Power Distribution Bus (with a 7 amp fuse) or
>the Main Battery Bus (with a 10 amp fuse). The EB contains 26 amps worth
>of fused instruments and corresponding load.
>
>1. Why are the fuses feeding the EB so much smaller than the potential
>load of the EB? Would use exceeding the
>7 amp and 10 amp fuses cause a blown fuse and loss of power to all of the EB?
>
>2. Why are the fuse sizes different between the Main Power bus and Main
>Battery bus, when feeding the EB?
>
>Thanks for any clarifications,
If your e-bus loads are that large, then it's not
an endurance bus. The point of the e-bus is to
drop to the aboslute minimum loads on battery(ies)
in the en route phase of flight for the purpose of
keeping the alternator failure in the maintenance
event, not emergency event (or even tense) category.
Effective use of the e-bus requires you have . . .
(a) a calculated (measure all the real loads) and
(b) verified ability to run those loads for whatever
value of duration you adopt as your design goal. I like
to use duration of fuel aboard. Verification calls
for periodic cap checks or periodic early replacement
such that the design goals are maintained.
The Z-figures are ARCHITECTURE drawings crafted to
offer solutions to a variety of design goals for
a variety of aircraft. The sizes of things (wire sizes,
fuses, etc) and numbers of things and where those
things get powered from are up to the individual
builder to select and adjust as needed.
You size the fuses and wires in accordance with
the levels of operating loads and protection dictated
by the final design. If your e-bus loads are
truly that big, then you'll need some really
big batteries to provide significant performance
under the e-bus operating philosophy.
Suggest you shoot for an e-bus load on the order
of 5A or less. Some of my builders are under
3A.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: music inputs |
Ralph,
Thanks, but can you tell me what page of the manual. I've a number of
replies that say the tip is the Right channel. I guess is really doesn't
matter too much when all is said and done.
Marty
Time: 07:37:19 PM PST US
From: Ralph Hoover <hooverra@verizon.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music inputs
Per Garmin 340 manual. This is also standard practice in the audio industry.
Tip = Left Ring = Right Sleeve = Common
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: music inputs |
Hi,
340 Install, Rev L, Pg B-11 in the appendix area has a pictorial detail.
Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo_jack_plug for industry wide /
background if you still have questions.
Regards,
Carl
--
ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Emrath
> Sent: Thursday, 11 October 2007 2:36 p.m.
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: music inputs
>
>
>
> Ralph,
> Thanks, but can you tell me what page of the manual. I've a number of
> replies that say the tip is the Right channel. I guess is really doesn't
> matter too much when all is said and done.
>
> Marty
>
> Time: 07:37:19 PM PST US
> From: Ralph Hoover <hooverra@verizon.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music inputs
>
>
> Per Garmin 340 manual. This is also standard practice in the
> audio industry.
> Tip = Left Ring = Right Sleeve = Common
>
> --
> Ralph C. Hoover
> RV7A
>
>
> 10/10/2007 5:11 p.m.
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 14V verus 28V |
Jeff,
When I was building my ALL electric Lancair I went round and round on
this issue. I couldn't find any more than three reasons for a 28v
system. 1 Anti-ice/de-ice systems, 2 the need to have a Christmas tree
amount of lights, and 3 air conditioning. Most of us are not building
airplanes with ice systems, or air conditioning and lighting now comes
in low use systems. My airplane has all the bells and whistles as far
as EFIS, Auto pilot, In-flight Entertainment, Electron ignition,
electronic engine monitor, back up EFIS, ect. With the navigation and
landing lights off my nominal use of power is about 15~20 amps @ 14vdc.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Gray
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V
<Bruce@glasair.org>
The main reason Cessna, Piper, and Beech all went 28v is commonality of
production. There's nothing wrong with 28v, you just have to shop for
your
electro whizzies at the local truck stop rather then at NAPA.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
Glasair III, 28v
10/2/2007 11:10 AM
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 14V verus 28V |
The only components that I could not find readily available in 28v (vs 14v)
were the Ray Allen trim servos (and they sell small converters). Most all
28V aircraft components are now essentially the same price as 14v. I do
have a 28-14V converter, but it only drives the cigarette style power ports.
Rick
All electric, Dual Alt, Lancair ES
-----Original Message-----
"N395V" said
... had to deal with the nightmare of much of what I needed not being
available in 28V so I had to add a converter (more weight and expense)...
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