---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/10/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:54 AM - Re: WireMaster (Bill Settle) 2. 05:44 AM - Re: Fuse panel location (Eric Newton) 3. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:10 AM - Re: 14V verus 28V (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 09:40 AM - Re: 14V verus 28V (N395V) 6. 10:01 AM - Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? (mikef) 7. 11:18 AM - Re: Wiremaster (Speedy11@aol.com) 8. 11:18 AM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? () 9. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: 14V verus 28V (david stroud) 10. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: 14V verus 28V (Bruce Gray) 11. 12:07 PM - Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring (DaveG601XL) 12. 12:13 PM - Fusible Link - is length of wire a concern? (mikef) 13. 12:26 PM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selectio (mikef) 14. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Wiremaster (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 15. 12:56 PM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? (Matt Prather) 16. 03:00 PM - Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse se (mikef) 17. 06:29 PM - Re: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 06:36 PM - Re: music inputs (Emrath) 19. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: music inputs (Carl Morgan) 20. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: 14V verus 28V (Mike) 21. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: 14V verus 28V (rtitsworth) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:29 AM PST US From: "Bill Settle" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: WireMaster I agree with Neal 100%. I met Stein at OSH this year for the first time... Great Guy. -------------- Original message from "Neal George" : -------------- Phil - I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996. He'll ask you three questions: What size? What color? How long? Then he'll thank you for your business. And ship the same day. You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at a good price, quite possibly less than advertised. And you'll be supporting one of our own in the process. And you won't feel as guilty when you call next year asking for help (pointers?) with your avionics wiring. neal ================== Hello All, I'm getting ready to order from WireMaster but the prices they are quoting are much higher than previously posted on this list. I have asked for prices on MIL-W-22759. They said there are several types of wire with that number. They have asked me for additional numbers or letters that follow the 22759 which is not the wire size. Can anyone help me with the full MIL SPEC Number? thanks phil

I agree with Neal 100%. I met Stein at OSH this year for the first time... Great Guy.

-------------- Original message from "Neal George" <n8zg@bellsouth.net>: --------------

Phil -

I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996.

He'll ask you three questions: What size? What color? How long? Then he'll thank you for your business. And ship the same day.

You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at a good price, quite possibly less than advertised. And you'll be supporting one of our own in the process. And you won't feel as guilty when you call next year asking for help (pointers?) with your avionics wiring.

neal
==================

Hello All,

I'm getting ready to order from WireMaster but the prices they are quoting are much higher than previously posted on this list.

I have asked for prices on MIL-W-22759. They said there are several types of wire with that number. They have asked me for additional numbers or letters that follow the 22759 which is not the wire size.

Can anyone help me with the full MIL SPEC Number?

thanks

phil

________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:41 AM PST US From: "Eric Newton" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse panel location Thanks for the kind words. The donut AMP pickup device goes with my Grand Rapids EIS system (as an option you have to purchase). No shunt needed with the amp device. Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS BH #682- Mississippi Mudbug BEARHAWK BUILDER'S MANUALS http://mybearhawk.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:32 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuse panel location > > Great job on documenting your work for the Bearhawk Eric. You should be > an instructor. I will borrow your swing out panel idea or build a swing > down panel using a cut-out portion of my avionics shelf on the co-pilots > side. > > Question: Where did you get the electronic amp sensor? Great idea. Also, > it looks like you did not use a shunt in front of your ANL? > > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Ernest Christley > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 5:28 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuse panel location > > > --> > > Eric Newton wrote: >> >> >> Here is a webpage from my Bearhawk builder's site on how I set up my >> Fuse panel which is hinged and can swing out for easy access. >> >> http://mybearhawk.com/finish/electrical2.html > I'll try to get some pictures later tonight, but for everyone using > these fuse blocks... > > You can get 90* 1/4" push-on fittings. I (fortunately) have a friend > with the expensive crimper, 'cause he uses bags of them in his > business. These are VERY nice to have when you're trying to fit the > fuse-block in a tight space like Eric is doing. > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring At 09:00 AM 10/9/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Noel Karppinen wrote: > >>Hi Ken >> >>You said: >> >>>I have a relay between the alternator and the regulator for control and >>>overvolt cutoff. It does not take a robust contactor there as it is AC >>>current and that relay also lets me kill power to a misbehaving >>>regulator. The B+ output of the regulator has a CB (a fuse would be >>>fine) to protect against excess battery current going into a misbehaving >>>regulator. >> >>Thanks for the infornmation. I had wondered about the possibility of >>isolating the regulator from the alternator, but I have not seen any >>previous references to this being done. Could you confirm that I have >>understood this correctly. i.e that you do not have any relay between the >>regulator output and the main bus, just the circuit breaker. >> >>Noel Karppinen > >Yes that is correct Noel. Actually I thought the current Z figure had >also been changed to show that now. I run an electrically dependant >engine so neither the alternator or the battery bus go through another >battery contactor or relay. Another reason to do this might be that I >have also found that the John Deere regulator fails instantly if run with >a totally dead battery -which is about the same as not having a battery >connected. (My little AGM batteries simply won't accept any significant >current initially if they are totally dead) Maybe the big capacitor would >protect against that but I have doubts. > >Peter the little VF4 relays just use our common PIDG push on >connections. You can mount the relay in a socket if you wish but that is >not necessary. I think B&C also sell a slightly different suitable relay >in a plastic case that does not use a socket. > >Ken > > >-- >269.14.6/1060 - Release Date: 10/9/2007 4:43 PM > > >incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:18 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 14V verus 28V At 11:52 PM 10/9/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >Bob, I just read your comments on Greg Richter's "Aircraft Wiring For >Smart People". I found it very enlightening, since I had originally >accepted most of it at face value. I really like your style of >including the references for your facts. I am eagerly awaiting my >copy of your book to eventually be delivered by Canada Post that I >ordered a week ago. > >One part of your comments that most interested me was characteristics >of the choice of a 14V versus 28V system. Prior to any thought at >all, I had assumed I would build a 14V airplane. Greg's article >originally prompted me to consider a 28V one. > >Most equipment will work happily with any voltage. A few parts are a >little harder to get, or slightly more expensive. Many aircraft >manufacturers now produce 28V products. Cessna has built many more >aircraft than I have, so holding them up as an example seems >practical. So I have been planning a 28V airplane. > >The only hitches I have found so far, is that the company I might buy >an inexpensive autopilot from sells only 14V servos and Dynon sells >only a 14V heated pitot tube. This can be solved with a DC-DC >converter, but that adds a nice heat source under the instrument panel >and another part to fail (although not a critical one for a VFR only >airplane). > >So after reading your comments, and realizing that Dynon expects that >virtually all of their market to build 14V aircraft, I am back to >thinking I should build a 14V system. This certainly simplifies a few >things. > >Before I make the final decision for 14V, do you know of any important >reasons in favor of a 28V system ? Most reasons, such as slightly >lighter weight are insignificant really. Weight differences are minuscule to non-existent and very few aircraft really need the 2x power capability for alternator sizing . . . so the big driver for me is that when you go 28v you lock yourself out of all current automotive offerings for devices (quite suitable for use on our airplanes) and you have to build your own battery from 2x 12v devices or purchase a "real" 24v battery - invariably more expensive and heavier for the same contained energy. There's just no compelling reason for considering 28v in the first place unless you're planning on exploiting the used/refurbished hardware from tens of thousands of Cessnas . . . and that's a step backwards. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:42 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V From: "N395V" I built with a 28V system for what I thought were some good reasons and then had to deal with the nightmare of much of what I needed not being available in 28V so I had to add a converter (more weight and expense) Then I had to add a 14v bus and wiring (more complexity) Net result More weight More cost More expense Net benefit... I'll let you know if I ever realize any. -------- Milt 2003 F1 Rocket 2006 Radial Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139188#139188 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:30 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? From: "mikef" In looking at the Z-19 diagram I see the Endurance Bus (EB) is potentially fed from the Main Power Distribution Bus (with a 7 amp fuse) or the Main Battery Bus (with a 10 amp fuse). The EB contains 26 amps worth of fused instruments and corresponding load. 1. Why are the fuses feeding the EB so much smaller than the potential load of the EB? Would use exceeding the 7 amp and 10 amp fuses cause a blown fuse and loss of power to all of the EB? 2. Why are the fuse sizes different between the Main Power bus and Main Battery bus, when feeding the EB? Thanks for any clarifications, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139195#139195 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:43 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiremaster I concur. Prompt service from Stein. In one shipment he got the color wrong and immediately shipped the correct one when I called. And he's one of us - not a huge corporation with twenty-five step answering system which forces you to choose between english and spanish and an ordertaker who may be in India. Stan Sutterfield I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996. He'll ask you three questions: What size? What color? How long? Then he'll thank you for your business. And ship the same day. You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at a good price, quite possibly less than advertised. And you'll be supporting one of our own in the process. And you won't feel as guilty when you call next year asking for help (pointers?) with your avionics wiring. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? From: Mike, I'll wait for the Bob's definitive answer but this makes no sense. That would be like adding a 100 am panel to your home and feeding it off a 20 amp breaker in your main panel. The lead from the main power bus to the endurance bus should be a direct feed from the same terminal as the main feed. Between them is a diode to prevent backflow if the e-bus alternate is used. Also, I have an issue with the orphaned switch for fuel pump #2. Why not integrate it with the engine primary and secondary switching? Note that if fuel pump #1 makes trouble, this diagram provides no way to isolate it, but rather one method to switch the bus that feeds it. With switch #2 I can turn it off/on at will which is fine as a backup, but I want that functionality for #1 also. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikef Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? In looking at the Z-19 diagram I see the Endurance Bus (EB) is potentially fed from the Main Power Distribution Bus (with a 7 amp fuse) or the Main Battery Bus (with a 10 amp fuse). The EB contains 26 amps worth of fused instruments and corresponding load. 1. Why are the fuses feeding the EB so much smaller than the potential load of the EB? Would use exceeding the 7 amp and 10 amp fuses cause a blown fuse and loss of power to all of the EB? 2. Why are the fuse sizes different between the Main Power bus and Main Battery bus, when feeding the EB? Thanks for any clarifications, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139195#139195 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:51 AM PST US From: "david stroud" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V I'm in a similar boat, Milt. I muckled onto a real nice Huosai engine, prop and ss exhaust, then only to find a sweet deal on a Jasco 28v alt. All dirt cheap so, for me, a good enough reason for 28v. I already had a 14v King radio though and foolishly thought I'd go thru the 2 x 14v battery combo and pull off 14v halfway with a battery equalizer, allowing me to pick and choose the rest of the components 28 or 14 v only to learn that the battery equalizer costs about $750 which is about what a new alt would cost. So..my solution is to go mostly 28v with a drop converter to 14v for one or two items. With a payload of 1,800 + lbs I don't need to watch every ounce but I am mindful of it. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada C-FDWS Christavia Fairchild 51 under construction ----- Original Message ----- From: "N395V" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V > > I built with a 28V system for what I thought were some good reasons and then had to deal with the nightmare of much of what I needed not being available in 28V so I had to add a converter (more weight and expense) > > Then I had to add a 14v bus and wiring (more complexity) > > Net result > > More weight > More cost > More expense > > Net benefit... I'll let you know if I ever realize any. > > -------- > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:35 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V The main reason Cessna, Piper, and Beech all went 28v is commonality of production. There's nothing wrong with 28v, you just have to shop for your electro whizzies at the local truck stop rather then at NAPA. Bruce www.Glasair.org Glasair III, 28v -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david stroud Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V I'm in a similar boat, Milt. I muckled onto a real nice Huosai engine, prop and ss exhaust, then only to find a sweet deal on a Jasco 28v alt. All dirt cheap so, for me, a good enough reason for 28v. I already had a 14v King radio though and foolishly thought I'd go thru the 2 x 14v battery combo and pull off 14v halfway with a battery equalizer, allowing me to pick and choose the rest of the components 28 or 14 v only to learn that the battery equalizer costs about $750 which is about what a new alt would cost. So..my solution is to go mostly 28v with a drop converter to 14v for one or two items. With a payload of 1,800 + lbs I don't need to watch every ounce but I am mindful of it. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada C-FDWS Christavia Fairchild 51 under construction ----- Original Message ----- From: "N395V" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:35 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V > > I built with a 28V system for what I thought were some good reasons and then had to deal with the nightmare of much of what I needed not being available in 28V so I had to add a converter (more weight and expense) > > Then I had to add a 14v bus and wiring (more complexity) > > Net result > > More weight > More cost > More expense > > Net benefit... I'll let you know if I ever realize any. > > -------- > Milt > 2003 F1 Rocket > 2006 Radial Rocket > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:09 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Jabiru Alternator Wiring From: "DaveG601XL" Bob, If you meant to say something in your 10/09 posting, nothing got printed out that I can see. I am also expecting to use a Jabiru engine with the PM alternator and am interested in your input to this thread. Thanks, -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, tail and wings completed, fueslage almost done, engine next. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139225#139225 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:17 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fusible Link - is length of wire a concern? From: "mikef" And another question :) Question: is there a suggested maximum wire length used when incorporating fusible links in a system? (or threshold for switching to something else?) Background: I am building a Z-19 system for my pusher aircraft. The important electrical components are all in the rear of the aircraft near the engine. This includes the Main Power bus and Ammeter shunt. The Master switch and Ammeter are located up front on the panel, being separated by about 10' of wire length in both cases. I am wondering if that is too far to run the fusible link wire from the Main power bus to the Master switch. Same concern for the shunt to ammeter fusible links. Thanks for input and advice, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139227#139227 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:21 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selectio From: "mikef" I agree, it seems wrong. Which means I've probably missed something fundamental with the design/diagram. Hopefully Bob will weigh in and shed some light. His explanations routinely make things clearer. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139229#139229 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiremaster From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." I would also agree that the service from Steinair is above and beyond, Stein and his team are always there to help with avionics questions and will work with you to resolve your problems, even if you were not a customer. That in my opinion is what makes a VAR, the value added reseller, and Stein is definitely a value add. Dan Lloyd N289DT RV10E flying _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiremaster I concur. Prompt service from Stein. In one shipment he got the color wrong and immediately shipped the correct one when I called. And he's one of us - not a huge corporation with twenty-five step answering system which forces you to choose between english and spanish and an ordertaker who may be in India. Stan Sutterfield I'd suggest you call Stein. 877-282-8996. He'll ask you three questions: What size? What color? How long? Then he'll thank you for your business. And ship the same day. You'll receive new wire (and the correct type of wire) at a good price, quite possibly less than advertised. And you'll be supporting one of our own in the process. And you won't feel as guilty when you call next year asking for help (pointers?) with your avionics wiring. _____ See what's new ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:12 PM PST US Subject: RE: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? From: "Matt Prather" As has been discussed, fuses are generally there to protect the wire. Wire is sized to be electrically adequate (with margin - sometimes large) and mechanically robust. The sizes of the fuses (and the total sum of the values of the fuses) are only peripherally related to the total bus draw. I would say that the size of the fuse feeding the e-bus should be determined by what the actual loads will be. The wires fed by the e-bus are already protected by the individual fuses. While 7A for the e-bus feed might seem small, I question what single engine airplane would need 26A continuous on the endurance bus. Free anecdotes (worth what you pay for it): My car has a 75A alternator, but adding up the fuse values shows that the bus capacity is in the realm of 175A. Also, Z19 as drawn has a 16g feed. The 10C rise load for 16g is 12.5A - far short of the 26A fuse load on the bus. That's okay for the reasons mentioned above. Regards, Matt- > > Mike, > I'll wait for the Bob's definitive answer but this makes no > sense. That would be like adding a 100 am panel to your home and feeding > it off a 20 amp breaker in your main panel. > > The lead from the main power bus to the endurance bus should be > a direct feed from the same terminal as the main feed. Between them is a > diode to prevent backflow if the e-bus alternate is used. > > Also, I have an issue with the orphaned switch for fuel pump #2. > Why not integrate it with the engine primary and secondary switching? > Note that if fuel pump #1 makes trouble, this diagram provides no way to > isolate it, but rather one method to switch the bus that feeds it. With > switch #2 I can turn it off/on at will which is fine as a backup, but I > want that functionality for #1 also. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikef > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:56 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: [Probable SPAM] AeroElectric-List: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions > - Fuse selection? > > > > In looking at the Z-19 diagram I see the Endurance Bus (EB) is > potentially fed from the Main Power Distribution Bus (with a 7 amp fuse) > or the Main Battery Bus (with a 10 amp fuse). The EB contains 26 amps > worth of fused instruments and corresponding load. > > 1. Why are the fuses feeding the EB so much smaller than the potential > load of the EB? Would use exceeding the 7 amp and 10 amp fuses cause a > blown fuse and loss of power to all of the EB? > > 2. Why are the fuse sizes different between the Main Power bus and Main > Battery bus, when feeding the EB? > > Thanks for any clarifications, > > Mike > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139195#139195 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:30 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: [Probable SPAM] Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse se From: "mikef" Matt, What you say makes sense. But what has me asking the questions is why the large difference between the fuse size of the Main power bus and the listed components on the Endurance Bus. Even if you cut the E-bus in half, amperage load-wise, you still get a 13/7 mix. That just seems askew. matt wrote: >> As has been discussed, fuses are generally there to protect the wire. Wire is sized to be electrically adequate (with margin - sometimes large) and mechanically robust. The sizes of the fuses (and the total sum of the values of the fuses) are only peripherally related to the total bus draw. I would say that the size of the fuse feeding the e-bus should be determined by what the actual loads will be. The wires fed by the e-bus are already protected by the individual fuses. While 7A for the e-bus feed might seem small, I question what single engine airplane would need 26A continuous on the endurance bus. Free anecdotes (worth what you pay for it): My car has a 75A alternator, but adding up the fuse values shows that the bus capacity is in the realm of 175A. Also, Z19 as drawn has a 16g feed. The 10C rise load for 16g is 12.5A - far short of the 26A fuse load on the bus. That's okay for the reasons mentioned above. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139268#139268 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:45 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 E Bus feeder questions - Fuse selection? At 09:56 AM 10/10/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >In looking at the Z-19 diagram I see the Endurance Bus (EB) is potentially >fed from the Main Power Distribution Bus (with a 7 amp fuse) or >the Main Battery Bus (with a 10 amp fuse). The EB contains 26 amps worth >of fused instruments and corresponding load. > >1. Why are the fuses feeding the EB so much smaller than the potential >load of the EB? Would use exceeding the >7 amp and 10 amp fuses cause a blown fuse and loss of power to all of the EB? > >2. Why are the fuse sizes different between the Main Power bus and Main >Battery bus, when feeding the EB? > >Thanks for any clarifications, If your e-bus loads are that large, then it's not an endurance bus. The point of the e-bus is to drop to the aboslute minimum loads on battery(ies) in the en route phase of flight for the purpose of keeping the alternator failure in the maintenance event, not emergency event (or even tense) category. Effective use of the e-bus requires you have . . . (a) a calculated (measure all the real loads) and (b) verified ability to run those loads for whatever value of duration you adopt as your design goal. I like to use duration of fuel aboard. Verification calls for periodic cap checks or periodic early replacement such that the design goals are maintained. The Z-figures are ARCHITECTURE drawings crafted to offer solutions to a variety of design goals for a variety of aircraft. The sizes of things (wire sizes, fuses, etc) and numbers of things and where those things get powered from are up to the individual builder to select and adjust as needed. You size the fuses and wires in accordance with the levels of operating loads and protection dictated by the final design. If your e-bus loads are truly that big, then you'll need some really big batteries to provide significant performance under the e-bus operating philosophy. Suggest you shoot for an e-bus load on the order of 5A or less. Some of my builders are under 3A. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:29 PM PST US From: "Emrath" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: music inputs Ralph, Thanks, but can you tell me what page of the manual. I've a number of replies that say the tip is the Right channel. I guess is really doesn't matter too much when all is said and done. Marty Time: 07:37:19 PM PST US From: Ralph Hoover Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music inputs Per Garmin 340 manual. This is also standard practice in the audio industry. Tip = Left Ring = Right Sleeve = Common -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:58 PM PST US From: "Carl Morgan" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: music inputs Hi, 340 Install, Rev L, Pg B-11 in the appendix area has a pictorial detail. Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo_jack_plug for industry wide / background if you still have questions. Regards, Carl -- ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Emrath > Sent: Thursday, 11 October 2007 2:36 p.m. > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: music inputs > > > > Ralph, > Thanks, but can you tell me what page of the manual. I've a number of > replies that say the tip is the Right channel. I guess is really doesn't > matter too much when all is said and done. > > Marty > > Time: 07:37:19 PM PST US > From: Ralph Hoover > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Music inputs > > > Per Garmin 340 manual. This is also standard practice in the > audio industry. > Tip = Left Ring = Right Sleeve = Common > > -- > Ralph C. Hoover > RV7A > > > 10/10/2007 5:11 p.m. > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:56 PM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V Jeff, When I was building my ALL electric Lancair I went round and round on this issue. I couldn't find any more than three reasons for a 28v system. 1 Anti-ice/de-ice systems, 2 the need to have a Christmas tree amount of lights, and 3 air conditioning. Most of us are not building airplanes with ice systems, or air conditioning and lighting now comes in low use systems. My airplane has all the bells and whistles as far as EFIS, Auto pilot, In-flight Entertainment, Electron ignition, electronic engine monitor, back up EFIS, ect. With the navigation and landing lights off my nominal use of power is about 15~20 amps @ 14vdc. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:50 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V The main reason Cessna, Piper, and Beech all went 28v is commonality of production. There's nothing wrong with 28v, you just have to shop for your electro whizzies at the local truck stop rather then at NAPA. Bruce www.Glasair.org Glasair III, 28v 10/2/2007 11:10 AM ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:18 PM PST US From: "rtitsworth" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 14V verus 28V The only components that I could not find readily available in 28v (vs 14v) were the Ray Allen trim servos (and they sell small converters). Most all 28V aircraft components are now essentially the same price as 14v. I do have a 28-14V converter, but it only drives the cigarette style power ports. Rick All electric, Dual Alt, Lancair ES -----Original Message----- "N395V" said ... had to deal with the nightmare of much of what I needed not being available in 28V so I had to add a converter (more weight and expense)... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.