Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:09 AM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Eric Newton)
2. 06:23 AM - Re: Instrument panel beginner (Eric M. Jones)
3. 06:26 AM - New Design! (Andrew Butler)
4. 08:08 AM - shielded headset jack wiring? (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
5. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Bret Smith)
7. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Rob Turk)
8. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (sttwig@nwinfo.net)
9. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (BobsV35B@aol.com)
10. 11:20 AM - Switch Labeling (mwcreek@frontiernet.net)
11. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Rob Turk)
13. 11:57 AM - Re: Switch Labeling (Rob Turk)
14. 12:04 PM - Re: Switch Labeling (Ron Raby)
15. 12:10 PM - Re: Switch Labeling (David Nelson)
16. 12:10 PM - Re: Switch Labeling (Ernest Christley)
17. 12:38 PM - Re: Switch Labeling (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
18. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Bret Smith)
19. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Rob Turk)
20. 03:05 PM - Re: Switch Labeling (mike humphrey)
21. 04:09 PM - Re: Switch Labeling (H. M. Haught Jr.)
22. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (H. M. Haught Jr.)
23. 04:40 PM - Re: shielded headset jack wiring? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 07:38 PM - Strobe cable (Jeff Page)
25. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Bret Smith)
26. 07:42 PM - Re: Switch Labeling (Ernest Christley)
27. 07:54 PM - Re: Strobe cable (Bill Hibbing)
28. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation (Bret Smith)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
The Dynon D100 is an autopilot? Since when?
Eric Newton
----- Original Message -----
From: "mosquito56" <mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
> <mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
>
> LMAO, now suggesting I replace a $2,000 overly expensive system with a
> $4,000 system. What am I missing?
> I can't seem to find an autopilot cheaper then the dynon d-100
> Don
>
> --------
> Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
> Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
> I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals
> for assistance in this thing we call life.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140572#140572
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
No discussion of instrument panel design should go without a reference to the three
excellent Kitplanes articles by Ricardo Price on Panel Design.
Go to the e-magazine section of Kitplanes online. Download the pdf's.
This series of articles has prevented me from publishing on the same topic because
I think he said it all. Remarkable!
Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will have to ram
it down their throats."
-- Howard Aiken
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140608#140608
Message 3
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Hello All,
After several months steep learning curve (still steep), I have come up
with a design that meets my particular requirements. I have followed Bobs
advice and gone for the Z13/8 type architecture. I have made some "minor"
additions to give me an asymmetric split bus. To support dual electronic
ignition, I need a backup battery and power supply and the attached
design gives that with the minimum of fuss.
I am writing to the group to ask for some help with regards the
following:
1. Dual electronic ignition is powered by either bus using bridge
rectifiers. There are four ON/OFF ignition switches to allow for
testing of each supply to each ignition system individually. Two
(2-10)s won't do it. Is there a switch that does OFF-ON-ON-BOTH? This
would allow me to reduce the four switches to two. Can anyone think
of any other way to test each of the four ignition power circuits?
2. Comments on the design. I am not looking for an endorsement, rather
a critical eye on any mistakes or bad practise Can you point out
anything that I may have missed?
3. How do I cater for the charge current limited aux battery that I
plan to install Do I need to anything special at all i.e. will the
design do the job without additional modification? Attached is the
spec. of a battery that I can source locally. Cycle use charging is
limited to 2.88Amp and trickle use limited to 1.08Amp.
4. Can anyone make any recommendations with regards an antenna and
cabling for my GARMIN 496? I will be panel mounting it. Satellite
weather is not available in Europe, and I am having difficulty
sourcing an antenna that is not dual weather/GPS capable. The cost o
f these antennas is prohibitive.
Thank you for your help.
Andrew Butler.
RV71700
Galway, Ireland.
Message 4
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| Subject: | shielded headset jack wiring? |
Gang:
The wiring diagram for my radio seems to show a shielded pair going to
the mike connector (audio and key) and a single shielded wire going to
the earphones.
[1] Is it reasonable to use a single 3-wire shielded cable for this?
[2] If I use stick-mounted PTT switches, is there any reason to use run
the key wire all the way to the mike connector? Couldn't I just run it
to the switch? (Yes, I know that this would make it impossible to use a
remote PTT through the connector.)
[3] If I do that, can I just run a shielded pair to the connector (mike
and earphones)?
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE (reserved)
601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Yup Trutrak digitrak or a Pictorial pilot (same thing but with a turn
coordinator display) is all you need.
Link the above to a handheld GPS and have a steam guage ASI and
Altimeter.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
--> <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Matt,
my experience with Navaid are in a way I would not recommend them.
However trutrak is missing in your link list :-)
<http://www.trutrakap.com/autopilot2_2.htm>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Don,
Regarding any and all aircraft avionics or electrical systems you will soon
discover that they are constantly changing and improving all the time. As a
result, like many of us, your original choices and decisions will change
frequently over time.
No subject can ever close... We all are here for one reason, to learn from
each other to do the best we can possibly do. Opinions will always vary and
sometimes the repertoire can become quite lively, but in the end we will
learn something...and that is the goal.
Here is my ongoing decision model from my website...
http://www.flightinnovations.com/considerations.html.
Welcome to our class.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mosquito56
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
--> <mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
Great to see so many people putting in their 2 cents. I will be closing this
subject since everything is as clear as mud and alot of fun.
Lots of great info. Thanx much for the info. Had a ball.
Gday Don
--------
Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for
assistance in this thing we call life.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140585#140585
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Bret,
As you said, opinions differ. I looked at your site, and while you have made
some excellent choises, I wonder why you don't include at least the very
basic flight instruments that do not rely on electric power.
Also, having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone. Most
GPS-based equipment accepts NMEA protocol. It's not hard to take one GPS
receiver and feed the NMEA protocol into all equipment that requires
position/speed information.
.. And so another episode in the discussion opens.. ;-)
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> Don,
>
> Regarding any and all aircraft avionics or electrical systems you will
> soon
> discover that they are constantly changing and improving all the time. As
> a
> result, like many of us, your original choices and decisions will change
> frequently over time.
>
> No subject can ever close... We all are here for one reason, to learn from
> each other to do the best we can possibly do. Opinions will always vary
> and
> sometimes the repertoire can become quite lively, but in the end we will
> learn something...and that is the goal.
>
> Here is my ongoing decision model from my website...
> http://www.flightinnovations.com/considerations.html.
>
> Welcome to our class.
>
>
> Bret Smith
> RV-9A (91314)
> Mineral Bluff, GA
> www.FlightInnovations.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> mosquito56
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:59 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> --> <mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
>
> Great to see so many people putting in their 2 cents. I will be closing
> this
> subject since everything is as clear as mud and alot of fun.
> Lots of great info. Thanx much for the info. Had a ball.
> Gday Don
>
> --------
> Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
> Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
> I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals
> for
> assistance in this thing we call life.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140585#140585
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Frank,
You suggest that all you need is Pictorial Pilot. What is you thoughts on
the ADI Pilot?
Steve
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Yup Trutrak digitrak or a Pictorial pilot (same thing but with a turn
> coordinator display) is all you need.
>
> Link the above to a handheld GPS and have a steam guage ASI and
> Altimeter.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Werner Schneider
> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 11:08 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> --> <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Hello Matt,
>
> my experience with Navaid are in a way I would not recommend them.
>
> However trutrak is missing in your link list :-)
>
> <http://www.trutrakap.com/autopilot2_2.htm>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Good Morning All,
I have no doubt that confidence in the new electronics will eventually
change my mind, but any airplane that I fly will have standard, ancient, steam
gauge, airspeed, altimeter and mechanical turn needle instruments (Definitely
NOT a turn coordinator!) with a ball inclinometer installed within the turn
needle instrument.
About twenty hours of good training will allow anyone to control any
airplane safely with just those three operative instruments.
Figure a thousand bucks for the training, which will stay with you for life,
and another thousand or so for the three instruments.
Beyond that, everything else can be as fancy as possible, but as long as I
can see that needle, ball, and airspeed, I know that I can survive the flight.
Relying on an autopilot to get me out of trouble is a bit foreign to my
philosophy, though I can see where I may someday accept such equipment as being
reliable enough to bet my life on it.
Meanwhile, that couple of thousand bucks will give me great comfort while
the modern stuff is proving it's suitability to the task!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Stearman N3977A
Downers Grove, Illinois
Message 10
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Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I know
I can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer something
more durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate with
silk-screen lettering.
Thanks,
Mike C.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Steve,
For a VFR airplane I think an ADI pilot is over the top. I use a
Pictorial Pilot in IMC as a backup to the Dynon. Remember that for IFR
flying you have to be sure you can safely fly the airplane if your
primary instrument (the Dynon D100 in my case) goes 'phut'.
In this case I simply use the Pictorial pilot and the altimeter/ASI for
my backup flying. During my instrument training we tested all sorts of
unusual attitude recovery with the Dynon covered up (my CFII is also
building an RV7 so we were both very keen to fully test all the failure
modes). Even with an RV which is a handful when flying in IMC the
Pictorial pilot was all that was needed.
Remember too that when pilots loose control (spatial disorientation) its
99% a failure in the roll mode...I.e you don't lose pitch and end up
pointing straight down/up..its a case of the thing rolls over on its
back...then you might lose pitch control.
Sure an ADI pilot would be nice but its definatly not a need.
But as I said previously the only reason I would consider a PP for VFR
is for a WX emergency..Its still more than you need but nice to
physically see that your wings are level. With the Digitrak you don't
have any visual feedback if you ended up in the clouds.
They sure are nice autopilots!
Frank
Zodiac 400hours.VFR
Rv7a 220 hours..IFR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
sttwig@nwinfo.net
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Frank,
You suggest that all you need is Pictorial Pilot. What is you thoughts
on the ADI Pilot?
Steve
(Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Yup Trutrak digitrak or a Pictorial pilot (same thing but with a turn
> coordinator display) is all you need.
>
> Link the above to a handheld GPS and have a steam guage ASI and
> Altimeter.
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Werner Schneider
> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 11:08 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> --> <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Hello Matt,
>
> my experience with Navaid are in a way I would not recommend them.
>
> However trutrak is missing in your link list :-)
>
> <http://www.trutrakap.com/autopilot2_2.htm>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Amen to that, Bob. That's how you got to be "Old Bob" in the first place
;-)
Blue skies,
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Good Morning All,
I have no doubt that confidence in the new electronics will eventually
change my mind, but any airplane that I fly will have standard, ancient,
steam gauge, airspeed, altimeter and mechanical turn needle instruments
(Definitely NOT a turn coordinator!) with a ball inclinometer installed
within the turn needle instrument.
About twenty hours of good training will allow anyone to control any
airplane safely with just those three operative instruments.
Figure a thousand bucks for the training, which will stay with you for
life, and another thousand or so for the three instruments.
Beyond that, everything else can be as fancy as possible, but as long
as I can see that needle, ball, and airspeed, I know that I can survive
the flight.
Relying on an autopilot to get me out of trouble is a bit foreign to
my philosophy, though I can see where I may someday accept such
equipment as being reliable enough to bet my life on it.
Meanwhile, that couple of thousand bucks will give me great comfort
while the modern stuff is proving it's suitability to the task!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Stearman N3977A
Downers Grove, Illinois
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
--> http://forums.matronics.com
===========
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Switch Labeling |
> Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I know I
> can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer something more
> durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate with silk-screen
> lettering.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike C.
>
My panel is matte grey. I used a Dymo label printer, with transparent labels
and white print on them. Looks quite nice and has proven to be scratch
resistant.
Rob
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Switch Labeling |
I paid for a silkscreen, painted the base coat had the silkscreen done and
finished with a dull clear coat.
Regards
Ron Raby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics@rtist.nl>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch Labeling
>
>> Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I know I
>> can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer something more
>> durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate with silk-screen
>> lettering.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike C.
>>
>
> My panel is matte grey. I used a Dymo label printer, with transparent
> labels and white print on them. Looks quite nice and has proven to be
> scratch resistant.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Switch Labeling |
Hi Mike,
Have you looked at Front Panel Express (http://www.frontpanelexpress.com).
They provide free CAD software to design your placards, etc.
I have no experience w/ them, yet. I learned this from Jim and Carolina's RV7
site (http://adap.com/rv7/). Jim provides some advice under the 'Panel 2'
section dated 3/29/07.
Regards,
/\/elson
RV-7A - Fuse
Austin, TX
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, mwcreek@frontiernet.net wrote:
> <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
>
> Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I know I can
> use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer something more durable.
> I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate with silk-screen lettering.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike C.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Switch Labeling |
mwcreek@frontiernet.net wrote:
> <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
>
> Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I know
> I can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer something
> more durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate with
> silk-screen lettering.
Create your switch layout in a vector drawing program...Inkscape,
CorelDraw, any CAD program. Print a mirror image on cheap inject paper
with a laser printer. Iron it onto aluminum flashing from the hardware
store. Clean with MEK or some such first. Apply a lot of pressure and
let it get hot. Wear gloves. You know it is on good when the lettering
shows up clearly through the paper. Let it soak in warm, soapy water
for an hour.
You'll need sandpaper to get the lettering off.
Keep the image you create, because you'll modify it a couple of times as
you get better ideas. The flashing cuts easily with scissors. The nuts
that hold the screws will hold the label plate.
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/SwitchPanel.jpg
Message 17
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Yes use a printer to make your own on clear acetate sheet...Put a nice
box around each one and exacto knife out the labels, Set your spacing
out to make the switches (keep printing paper copies) and then use clear
tape to lift the individual boxed labels and slap directly on panel.
More durable?...No need. Mine lasted for 7 years and still looked great.
BUT you keep the MS WORD file with your labels on your PC...If they ever
curl up simply wash them off with mineral spirits and print out a new
set...:)
This word best if you don't hae wrinkle finish paint on your panel.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mwcreek@frontiernet.net
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:11 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch Labeling
--> <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I know I
can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer something more
durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate with silk-screen
lettering.
Thanks,
Mike C.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Rob,
You asked "I wonder why you don't include at least the very basic flight
instruments that do not rely on electric power."
You will see that I am planning on the Z-13/8. This wiring structure
incorporates a dual buss with an 8amp alternate alternator to power
essential items should the main 60amp alternator go TU. The PRIMARY backup
is the TT two-axis autopilot. Triple backup is the TT ADI (with it's own
backup battery and GPS. No need for vacuum instruments with this level of
redundancy.
You said "having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone."
The primary GPS is the Garmin GNS430. The antenna will be mounted under
the glareshield (under a plexiglass panel) and will support the EFIS as well
as XM WX. The alt GPS is part of the Grand Rapids Horizon 1 EFIS and is
purely a VFR backup. It's antenna will be mounted beside the Garmin
antenna. Having dual antennas removes the single point of failure in the
design. The only other GPS is the backup for the TT ADI. I'm not sure
where you get a 4th GPS antenna although it doesn't really matter since
these small antennas together, side-by-side will fit in the palm of your
hand.
This model is a tried and true design and is currently being flown by
several fellow builders an a rock-solid IFR platform. Having dual P-Mags
offers an electrically independent engine as well. To my understanding, the
only "dark and stormy" scenario that would defeat the design is an in-flight
fire. In which case there is little one can do except land ASAP.
I welcome your critique.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Turk
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Bret,
As you said, opinions differ. I looked at your site, and while you have made
some excellent choises, I wonder why you don't include at least the very
basic flight instruments that do not rely on electric power.
Also, having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone. Most
GPS-based equipment accepts NMEA protocol. It's not hard to take one GPS
receiver and feed the NMEA protocol into all equipment that requires
position/speed information.
.. And so another episode in the discussion opens.. ;-)
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> Don,
>
> Regarding any and all aircraft avionics or electrical systems you will
> soon
> discover that they are constantly changing and improving all the time. As
> a
> result, like many of us, your original choices and decisions will change
> frequently over time.
>
> No subject can ever close... We all are here for one reason, to learn from
> each other to do the best we can possibly do. Opinions will always vary
> and
> sometimes the repertoire can become quite lively, but in the end we will
> learn something...and that is the goal.
>
> Here is my ongoing decision model from my website...
> http://www.flightinnovations.com/considerations.html.
>
> Welcome to our class.
>
>
> Bret Smith
> RV-9A (91314)
> Mineral Bluff, GA
> www.FlightInnovations.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> mosquito56
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:59 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> --> <mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
>
> Great to see so many people putting in their 2 cents. I will be closing
> this
> subject since everything is as clear as mud and alot of fun.
> Lots of great info. Thanx much for the info. Had a ball.
> Gday Don
>
> --------
> Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
> Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
> I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals
> for
> assistance in this thing we call life.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140585#140585
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Bret,
I would include an altimeter and ASI as minimum backup, together with a
compass. No need for any vacuum stuff, just a static and pitot.
Relying on redundant electronics is fine, and if you trust your gear, go
for it. My worry would be something like a lightning surge. Your
electrical circuits are not immune to picking up surges from nearby
lightning, and a single surge can wipe out basically everything you have
that lets you navigate the plane. Not that you should be flying anywhere
near such conditions, but sometime you might get caught in bad weather.
You have plenty antennas to pick up a surge. Maybe someone with more
theoretical knowledge can go into details, but nearby lightning can
generate fields of something like 10 volts/foot. Having a number of
antennas several feet apart can easily cause a potential surge of a few
hundred volts to hit your precious gear.
The reference to 4 GPS antennas is taken directly from your site, I
didn't try to match your number to actual equipment. It says: "Antennas:
I will be installing (2) COM antennas, (1) NAV antenna, (1) Marker
Beacon antenna, (4)GPS antennas, (1) ELT antenna and (1) Transponder
antenna.".
Hth,
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Bret Smith
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Rob,
You asked "I wonder why you don't include at least the very basic
flight instruments that do not rely on electric power."
You will see that I am planning on the Z-13/8. This wiring
structure incorporates a dual buss with an 8amp alternate alternator to
power essential items should the main 60amp alternator go TU. The
PRIMARY backup is the TT two-axis autopilot. Triple backup is the TT
ADI (with it's own backup battery and GPS. No need for vacuum
instruments with this level of redundancy.
You said "having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone."
The primary GPS is the Garmin GNS430. The antenna will be mounted
under the glareshield (under a plexiglass panel) and will support the
EFIS as well as XM WX. The alt GPS is part of the Grand Rapids Horizon
1 EFIS and is purely a VFR backup. It's antenna will be mounted beside
the Garmin antenna. Having dual antennas removes the single point of
failure in the design. The only other GPS is the backup for the TT ADI.
I'm not sure where you get a 4th GPS antenna although it doesn't really
matter since these small antennas together, side-by-side will fit in the
palm of your hand.
This model is a tried and true design and is currently being flown by
several fellow builders an a rock-solid IFR platform. Having dual
P-Mags offers an electrically independent engine as well. To my
understanding, the only "dark and stormy" scenario that would defeat the
design is an in-flight fire. In which case there is little one can do
except land ASAP.
I welcome your critique.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Switch Labeling |
Mike C.
Wick's, Chief and A/C Spruce have pre-printed label sheets already on
adhesive. White on clear or black on clear or the white print on black.
Huge sheets with tons of labels common to all a/c. Very easy to peal and
stick. No spacing requirements. Take a look.
Mike H 9A/8A
----- Original Message -----
From: <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:10 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch Labeling
> <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
>
> Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I know I
> can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer something more
> durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate with silk-screen
> lettering.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike C.
>
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Switch Labeling |
Ernest -
Man, what a neat idea! What is inject paper? By the way, got any photos?
M. Haught
Ernest Christley wrote:
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> mwcreek@frontiernet.net wrote:
>> <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
>>
>> Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I
>> know I can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer
>> something more durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate
>> with silk-screen lettering.
> Create your switch layout in a vector drawing program...Inkscape,
> CorelDraw, any CAD program. Print a mirror image on cheap inject
> paper with a laser printer. Iron it onto aluminum flashing from the
> hardware store. Clean with MEK or some such first. Apply a lot of
> pressure and let it get hot. Wear gloves. You know it is on good
> when the lettering shows up clearly through the paper. Let it soak in
> warm, soapy water for an hour.
>
> You'll need sandpaper to get the lettering off.
> Keep the image you create, because you'll modify it a couple of times
> as you get better ideas. The flashing cuts easily with scissors. The
> nuts that hold the screws will hold the label plate.
>
> http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/SwitchPanel.jpg
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Bret -
Enjoyed your site, and wanted to to know I am adapting your paint scheme
to a Bearhawk (file attached- dark color is a bright,deep orange over a
complimentary yellow shade - used for visibility in the bush). I like
the simplicity and I think it lends itself well to the Bearhawk lines.
Using your ideas for instrumentation, what are your thoughts on
instrumentation for a VFR airplane, that might occasionally, file
special VFR to get out of a low ceiling situation flying into clear air?
M. Haught
Bret Smith wrote:
>
> Rob,
> You asked "I wonder why you don't include at least the very basic
> flight instruments that do not rely on electric power."
> You will see that I am planning on the Z-13/8. This wiring
> structure incorporates a dual buss with an 8amp alternate alternator
> to power essential items should the main 60amp alternator go TU. The
> PRIMARY backup is the TT two-axis autopilot. Triple backup is the TT
> ADI (with it's own backup battery and GPS. No need for vacuum
> instruments with this level of redundancy.
>
> You said "having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone."
> The primary GPS is the Garmin GNS430. The antenna will be mounted
> under the glareshield (under a plexiglass panel) and will support the
> EFIS as well as XM WX. The alt GPS is part of the Grand Rapids
> Horizon 1 EFIS and is purely a VFR backup. It's antenna will be
> mounted beside the Garmin antenna. Having dual antennas removes the
> single point of failure in the design. The only other GPS is the
> backup for the TT ADI. I'm not sure where you get a 4th GPS antenna
> although it doesn't really matter since these small antennas together,
> side-by-side will fit in the palm of your hand.
>
> This model is a tried and true design and is currently being flown by
> several fellow builders an a rock-solid IFR platform. Having dual
> P-Mags offers an electrically independent engine as well. To my
> understanding, the only "dark and stormy" scenario that would defeat
> the design is an in-flight fire. In which case there is little one
> can do except land ASAP.
>
> I welcome your critique.
>
>
> Bret Smith
> RV-9A (91314)
> Mineral Bluff, GA
> www.FlightInnovations.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
> Turk
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 1:09 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
>
> Bret,
>
> As you said, opinions differ. I looked at your site, and while you
> have made some excellent choises, I wonder why you don't include at
> least the very basic flight instruments that do not rely on electric
> power.
>
> Also, having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone. Most
> GPS-based equipment accepts NMEA protocol. It's not hard to take one
> GPS receiver and feed the NMEA protocol into all equipment that
> requires position/speed information.
>
> .. And so another episode in the discussion opens.. ;-)
>
> Rob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:31 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
>
> >
> > Don,
> >
> > Regarding any and all aircraft avionics or electrical systems you will
> > soon
> > discover that they are constantly changing and improving all the
> time. As
> > a
> > result, like many of us, your original choices and decisions will change
> > frequently over time.
> >
> > No subject can ever close... We all are here for one reason, to
> learn from
> > each other to do the best we can possibly do. Opinions will always vary
> > and
> > sometimes the repertoire can become quite lively, but in the end we will
> > learn something...and that is the goal.
> >
> > Here is my ongoing decision model from my website...
> > http://www.flightinnovations.com/considerations.html.
> >
> > Welcome to our class.
> >
> >
> > Bret Smith
> > RV-9A (91314)
> > Mineral Bluff, GA
> > www.FlightInnovations.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > mosquito56
> > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:59 AM
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
> >
> > --> <mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Great to see so many people putting in their 2 cents. I will be closing
> > this
> > subject since everything is as clear as mud and alot of fun.
> > Lots of great info. Thanx much for the info. Had a ball.
> > Gday Don
> >
> > --------
> > Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
> > Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
> > I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals
> > for
> > assistance in this thing we call life.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140585#140585
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >nbsp; Features Subscriptions
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.p;
> available via
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: shielded headset jack wiring? |
At 07:58 AM 10/18/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>Gang:
>
>The wiring diagram for my radio seems to show a shielded pair going to the
>mike connector (audio and key) and a single shielded wire going to the
>earphones.
>
>[1] Is it reasonable to use a single 3-wire shielded cable for this?
It would be better to follow the manufacturer's
instructions.
>
>[2] If I use stick-mounted PTT switches, is there any reason to use run
>the key wire all the way to the mike connector? Couldn't I just run it
>to the switch? (Yes, I know that this would make it impossible to use a
>remote PTT through the connector.)
yes
>
>[3] If I do that, can I just run a shielded pair to the connector (mike
>and earphones)?
They can be single shielded wires then. Use the
shield as "ground" for the respective jack.
Don't forget to insulate the jacks from a
metal airframe.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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|
I am looking to buy 3 conductor shielded 16 gauge wire for my wing tip
strobes.
I have been looking for M27500-16TE3T14 but can only find M27500-16TG3T14.
Looking at wire specs, it is difficult to see differences.
I think the main difference between the two is that TE wire has
M22759/16 wires, which have thicker insulation than TG wire with
M22759/18 wires.
Since the wires are protected inside the jacket, does the insulation
thickness matter for my purposes ?
Thanks
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel beginner |
Good points Rob, I failed to mention that the GRT EIS will be able to
display altitude and airspeed as well. I suppose a direct lightening strike
could do some damage, however, as long as the engine is running I have
options...such as pulling out my handheld COM and GPS. Hopefully with only
two exposed antennas (COM 1 and XPR) I can minimize the risk of electrical
surge.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Turk
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Bret,
I would include an altimeter and ASI as minimum backup, together with a
compass. No need for any vacuum stuff, just a static and pitot.
Relying on redundant electronics is fine, and if you trust your gear, go for
it. My worry would be something like a lightning surge. Your electrical
circuits are not immune to picking up surges from nearby lightning, and a
single surge can wipe out basically everything you have that lets you
navigate the plane. Not that you should be flying anywhere near such
conditions, but sometime you might get caught in bad weather.
You have plenty antennas to pick up a surge. Maybe someone with more
theoretical knowledge can go into details, but nearby lightning can generate
fields of something like 10 volts/foot. Having a number of antennas several
feet apart can easily cause a potential surge of a few hundred volts to hit
your precious gear.
The reference to 4 GPS antennas is taken directly from your site, I didn't
try to match your number to actual equipment. It says: "Antennas: I will be
installing (2) COM antennas, (1) NAV antenna, (1) Marker Beacon antenna,
(4)GPS antennas, (1) ELT antenna and (1) Transponder antenna.".
Hth,
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Bret Smith <mailto:smithhb@tds.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Rob,
You asked "I wonder why you don't include at least the very basic flight
instruments that do not rely on electric power."
You will see that I am planning on the Z-13/8. This wiring structure
incorporates a dual buss with an 8amp alternate alternator to power
essential items should the main 60amp alternator go TU. The PRIMARY backup
is the TT two-axis autopilot. Triple backup is the TT ADI (with it's own
backup battery and GPS. No need for vacuum instruments with this level of
redundancy.
You said "having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone."
The primary GPS is the Garmin GNS430. The antenna will be mounted under
the glareshield (under a plexiglass panel) and will support the EFIS as well
as XM WX. The alt GPS is part of the Grand Rapids Horizon 1 EFIS and is
purely a VFR backup. It's antenna will be mounted beside the Garmin
antenna. Having dual antennas removes the single point of failure in the
design. The only other GPS is the backup for the TT ADI. I'm not sure
where you get a 4th GPS antenna although it doesn't really matter since
these small antennas together, side-by-side will fit in the palm of your
hand.
This model is a tried and true design and is currently being flown by
several fellow builders an a rock-solid IFR platform. Having dual P-Mags
offers an electrically independent engine as well. To my understanding, the
only "dark and stormy" scenario that would defeat the design is an in-flight
fire. In which case there is little one can do except land ASAP.
I welcome your critique.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Switch Labeling |
H. M. Haught Jr. wrote:
> <handainc@madisoncounty.net>
>
> Ernest -
>
> Man, what a neat idea! What is inject paper? By the way, got any photos?
> M. Haught
>
Oops! That should be inkjet paper. Sorry for the typo. But do get the
cheapest storebrand paper you can find. The expensive stuff literally
will not work. The cheap stuff has a coating that dissolves in water.
The expensive stuff is formulated to be water resistant, and will make
you sad in this case.
All the photos I have of my project can be found at
http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures . I'll actually get around to
writing about all of them some day.
> Ernest Christley wrote:
>> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>>
>> mwcreek@frontiernet.net wrote:
>>> <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I
>>> know I can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer
>>> something more durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate
>>> with silk-screen lettering.
>> Create your switch layout in a vector drawing program...Inkscape,
>> CorelDraw, any CAD program. Print a mirror image on cheap inject
>> paper with a laser printer. Iron it onto aluminum flashing from the
>> hardware store. Clean with MEK or some such first. Apply a lot of
>> pressure and let it get hot. Wear gloves. You know it is on good
>> when the lettering shows up clearly through the paper. Let it soak
>> in warm, soapy water for an hour.
>>
>> You'll need sandpaper to get the lettering off.
>> Keep the image you create, because you'll modify it a couple of times
>> as you get better ideas. The flashing cuts easily with scissors.
>> The nuts that hold the screws will hold the label plate.
>>
>> http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/SwitchPanel.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
--
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in
a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine in
the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
--Unknown
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Strobe cable |
Jeff,
Check http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/32/cat32.htm?620
Give him a call and see if what he sells is what you want. I've only done
business with him one time but was very satisfied and he did save me a few
dollars.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Page" <jpx@qenesis.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strobe cable
>
> I am looking to buy 3 conductor shielded 16 gauge wire for my wing tip
> strobes.
> I have been looking for M27500-16TE3T14 but can only find M27500-16TG3T14.
> Looking at wire specs, it is difficult to see differences.
> I think the main difference between the two is that TE wire has M22759/16
> wires, which have thicker insulation than TG wire with M22759/18 wires.
> Since the wires are protected inside the jacket, does the insulation
> thickness matter for my purposes ?
> Thanks
> Jeff Page
> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation |
M,
Your paint scheme looks great! Actually, I "borrowed" the scheme from the
HondaJet prototype.
I must admit that I am not an avionics expert and would prefer to differ
your question to the many more knowledgeable folks on this list, however,
aside from the minimum requirements depicted in the FARs, I would consider
something like this:
* Dynon D100 - EFIS - Bright Screen
* Includes Backup Battery, Mounting Tray, Remote Mount Compass, USB to
Serial Port Cable & Factory Harness
* Dynon D120 - EMS - Bright Screen
* Includes 4 Cylinder Engine Probe Kit
* Garmin GPSMAP 396
* AirGizmo Panel Dock
* Garmin SL40 COM
* Garmin GTX327 Transponder*
* PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom
* UMA 2 1/4" Airspeed Indicator
* UMA 2 1/4" 20,000ft Atimeter
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H. M.
Haught Jr.
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Bret -
Enjoyed your site, and wanted to to know I am adapting your paint scheme to
a Bearhawk (file attached- dark color is a bright,deep orange over a
complimentary yellow shade - used for visibility in the bush). I like the
simplicity and I think it lends itself well to the Bearhawk lines.
Using your ideas for instrumentation, what are your thoughts on
instrumentation for a VFR airplane, that might occasionally, file special
VFR to get out of a low ceiling situation flying into clear air?
M. Haught
Bret Smith wrote:
Rob,
You asked "I wonder why you don't include at least the very basic flight
instruments that do not rely on electric power."
You will see that I am planning on the Z-13/8. This wiring structure
incorporates a dual buss with an 8amp alternate alternator to power
essential items should the main 60amp alternator go TU. The PRIMARY backup
is the TT two-axis autopilot. Triple backup is the TT ADI (with it's own
backup battery and GPS. No need for vacuum instruments with this level of
redundancy.
You said "having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone."
The primary GPS is the Garmin GNS430. The antenna will be mounted under
the glareshield (under a plexiglass panel) and will support the EFIS as well
as XM WX. The alt GPS is part of the Grand Rapids Horizon 1 EFIS and is
purely a VFR backup. It's antenna will be mounted beside the Garmin
antenna. Having dual antennas removes the single point of failure in the
design. The only other GPS is the backup for the TT ADI. I'm not sure
where you get a 4th GPS antenna although it doesn't really matter since
these small antennas together, side-by-side will fit in the palm of your
hand.
This model is a tried and true design and is currently being flown by
several fellow builders an a rock-solid IFR platform. Having dual P-Mags
offers an electrically independent engine as well. To my understanding, the
only "dark and stormy" scenario that would defeat the design is an in-flight
fire. In which case there is little one can do except land ASAP.
I welcome your critique.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Turk
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
<mailto:matronics@rtist.nl> <matronics@rtist.nl>
Bret,
As you said, opinions differ. I looked at your site, and while you have made
some excellent choises, I wonder why you don't include at least the very
basic flight instruments that do not rely on electric power.
Also, having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone. Most
GPS-based equipment accepts NMEA protocol. It's not hard to take one GPS
receiver and feed the NMEA protocol into all equipment that requires
position/speed information.
.. And so another episode in the discussion opens.. ;-)
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret Smith" <mailto:smithhb@tds.net> <smithhb@tds.net>
<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
<mailto:smithhb@tds.net> <smithhb@tds.net>
>
> Don,
>
> Regarding any and all aircraft avionics or electrical systems you will
> soon
> discover that they are constantly changing and improving all the time. As
> a
> result, like many of us, your original choices and decisions will change
> frequently over time.
>
> No subject can ever close... We all are here for one reason, to learn from
> each other to do the best we can possibly do. Opinions will always vary
> and
> sometimes the repertoire can become quite lively, but in the end we will
> learn something...and that is the goal.
>
> Here is my ongoing decision model from my website...
> http://www.flightinnovations.com/considerations.html.
>
> Welcome to our class.
>
>
> Bret Smith
> RV-9A (91314)
> Mineral Bluff, GA
> www.FlightInnovations.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> mosquito56
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:59 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> --> <mailto:mosquito-56@hotmail.com> <mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
>
> Great to see so many people putting in their 2 cents. I will be closing
> this
> subject since everything is as clear as mud and alot of fun.
> Lots of great info. Thanx much for the info. Had a ball.
> Gday Don
>
> --------
> Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
> Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
> I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals
> for
> assistance in this thing we call life.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140585#140585
>
>
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