Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - Re: Strobe cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: Strobe cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:26 AM - Re: Strobe cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:28 AM - Re: Strobe cable (oops!) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:29 AM - Re: Switch Labeling (David & Elaine Lamphere)
6. 07:08 AM - Strobe cable - another question/same topic (Neil Clayton)
7. 07:45 AM - Re: Strobe cable - another question/same topic (Bob White)
8. 08:12 AM - Re: Strobe cable - another question/same topic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:58 AM - Re: AA batteries... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation (Bret Smith)
12. 02:45 PM - Fiber Washer (Emrath)
13. 07:07 PM - Re: Fiber Washer (Doug Windhorn)
14. 08:08 PM - Re: Fiber Washer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:08 PM - Re: Fiber Washer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 08:19 PM - Re: Strobe Cable (Jeff Page)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe cable |
At 10:37 PM 10/18/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I am looking to buy 3 conductor shielded 16 gauge wire for my wing tip
>strobes.
As far as I know, the wire shipped in factory kits for
strobe installation has been a Belden product having
100% coverage, "Beldfoil" shield. These products
are described in the documents you'll find at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Wire/Belden/
>I have been looking for M27500-16TE3T14 but can only find M27500-16TG3T14.
>Looking at wire specs, it is difficult to see differences.
>I think the main difference between the two is that TE wire has
>M22759/16 wires, which have thicker insulation than TG wire with
>M22759/18 wires.
>Since the wires are protected inside the jacket, does the insulation
>thickness matter for my purposes ?
No, either of those wires would do. The wire gage
isn't really critical either. Voltage drop in smaller
even smaller wires is insignificant for these
installations. The insulation for Belden wire
is PVC over Polyethylene. This is admittedly
a "1960s" wire product but has proven successful
in hundreds of thousands of aircraft. This is
a low energy circuit that doesn't need
fault protection for the installed wires so
spending much $time$ acquiring a more exotic
wire product may not be well invested.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe cable |
At 09:52 PM 10/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Jeff,
>
>Check http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/32/cat32.htm?620
>
>Give him a call and see if what he sells is what you want. I've only done
>business with him one time but was very satisfied and he did save me a few
>dollars.
The wire illustrated at
http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/32/1922.htm?248
appears to be the Belden product I cited earlier.
. . . and the price is certainly right! A Belden
distributor will want to sell you a 1000' at
about 5 cents per foot.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe cable |
At 09:52 PM 10/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Jeff,
>
>Check http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/32/cat32.htm?620
>
>Give him a call and see if what he sells is what you want. I've only done
>business with him one time but was very satisfied and he did save me a few
>dollars.
The wire illustrated at
http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/32/1922.htm?248
appears to be the Belden product I cited earlier.
. . . and the price is certainly right! A Belden
distributor will want to sell you a 1000' at
about 5 cents per foot.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe cable (oops!) |
At 09:52 PM 10/18/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Jeff,
>
>Check http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/32/cat32.htm?620
>
>Give him a call and see if what he sells is what you want. I've only done
>business with him one time but was very satisfied and he did save me a few
>dollars.
The wire illustrated at
http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/32/1922.htm?248
appears to be the Belden product I cited earlier.
. . . and the price is certainly right! A Belden
distributor will want to sell you a 1000' at
about 50 CENTS PER FOOT (not 5).
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Switch Labeling |
For panel labeling (switches, controls, etc) I used Inkjet Decal paper. You
make up your file using Word, Wordpad, or whatever program you like, print
out the file on this paper. Spray on a coat of gloss clear Krylon. Cut,
apply like any other decal, soaking in water, then positioning. After
drying, you should then put a coat of a good quality clear paint over this -
I used a two part urethane for this. While a little more work, it does
result in nice labeling. Even did up a color coded fuel selector label. This
is a very flexible method for labels, graphics, and such that are not your
run-of-the mill items. If this is too much trouble, there's always the
clear, sticky back labels that you can get from ACS or EAA.
The website for this decal paper is:
http://www.decal-paper.com/inkjet.html
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch Labeling
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> H. M. Haught Jr. wrote:
>> <handainc@madisoncounty.net>
>>
>> Ernest -
>>
>> Man, what a neat idea! What is inject paper? By the way, got any photos?
>> M. Haught
>>
>
> Oops! That should be inkjet paper. Sorry for the typo. But do get the
> cheapest storebrand paper you can find. The expensive stuff literally
> will not work. The cheap stuff has a coating that dissolves in water.
> The expensive stuff is formulated to be water resistant, and will make you
> sad in this case.
>
> All the photos I have of my project can be found at
> http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures . I'll actually get around to
> writing about all of them some day.
>
>> Ernest Christley wrote:
>>> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>>>
>>> mwcreek@frontiernet.net wrote:
>>>> <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone suggest the preffered method for labeling switches? I know
>>>> I can use a printer and make my own, but would would prefer something
>>>> more durable. I'm thinking of a plastic or aluminum plate with
>>>> silk-screen lettering.
>>> Create your switch layout in a vector drawing program...Inkscape,
>>> CorelDraw, any CAD program. Print a mirror image on cheap inject paper
>>> with a laser printer. Iron it onto aluminum flashing from the hardware
>>> store. Clean with MEK or some such first. Apply a lot of pressure and
>>> let it get hot. Wear gloves. You know it is on good when the lettering
>>> shows up clearly through the paper. Let it soak in warm, soapy water
>>> for an hour.
>>>
>>> You'll need sandpaper to get the lettering off.
>>> Keep the image you create, because you'll modify it a couple of times as
>>> you get better ideas. The flashing cuts easily with scissors. The nuts
>>> that hold the screws will hold the label plate.
>>>
>>> http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Pictures/SwitchPanel.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
> in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,
> thoroughly used up, totally worn out, with chocolate in one hand and wine
> in the other, loudly proclaiming 'WOO HOO What a Ride!'"
> --Unknown
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Strobe cable - another question/same topic |
I just installed my strobe cables yesterday (I now have two working
strobes - yea!!!)
Inside the wire bundle were the three conductors wrapped in a foil
sleeve, but there's a forth bare conductor, which I presume is a ground.
What do I do with that? Where to connect it? Snip it off?
Thanks
Neil
At 10:04 AM 10/19/2007, you wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
>At 10:37 PM 10/18/2007 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>
>>I am looking to buy 3 conductor shielded 16 gauge wire for my wing tip
>>strobes.
>
> As far as I know, the wire shipped in factory kits for
> strobe installation has been a Belden product having
> 100% coverage, "Beldfoil" shield. These products
> are described in the documents you'll find at:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Wire/Belden/
>
>>I have been looking for M27500-16TE3T14 but can only find M27500-16TG3T14.
>>Looking at wire specs, it is difficult to see differences.
>>I think the main difference between the two is that TE wire has
>>M22759/16 wires, which have thicker insulation than TG wire with
>>M22759/18 wires.
>>Since the wires are protected inside the jacket, does the insulation
>>thickness matter for my purposes ?
>
> No, either of those wires would do. The wire gage
> isn't really critical either. Voltage drop in smaller
> even smaller wires is insignificant for these
> installations. The insulation for Belden wire
> is PVC over Polyethylene. This is admittedly
> a "1960s" wire product but has proven successful
> in hundreds of thousands of aircraft. This is
> a low energy circuit that doesn't need
> fault protection for the installed wires so
> spending much $time$ acquiring a more exotic
> wire product may not be well invested.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( "Problems are the price of progress. )
> ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
> ( Good news weakens me." )
> ( -Charles F. Kettering- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>--
>269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe cable - another question/same topic |
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:01:38 -0400
Neil Clayton <harvey4@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I just installed my strobe cables yesterday (I now have two working
> strobes - yea!!!)
> Inside the wire bundle were the three conductors wrapped in a foil
> sleeve, but there's a forth bare conductor, which I presume is a ground.
> What do I do with that? Where to connect it? Snip it off?
>
> Thanks
> Neil
>
>
Hi Neil,
That wire is the connection for the foil shield. Connect it wherever
the shield is supposed to be connected.
Bob W.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe cable - another question/same topic |
At 08:44 AM 10/19/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:01:38 -0400
>Neil Clayton <harvey4@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> <harvey4@earthlink.net>
> >
> > I just installed my strobe cables yesterday (I now have two working
> > strobes - yea!!!)
> > Inside the wire bundle were the three conductors wrapped in a foil
> > sleeve, but there's a forth bare conductor, which I presume is a ground.
> > What do I do with that? Where to connect it? Snip it off?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Neil
> >
> >
>Hi Neil,
>
>That wire is the connection for the foil shield. Connect it wherever
>the shield is supposed to be connected.
>
>Bob W.
Neil, here's an excerpt from the wire catalog
on this technology.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Wire/Belden/Beldfoil_Shielding.jpg
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AA batteries... |
Bob,
Have you seen this:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/824477/6_volt_battery_hack_youll_be_amazed/
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Yes.
From a design perspective, producing this
product is problematic. Simply stacking AA
cells requires some pressure be maintained
between cells. The cells also have to have
some degree of "looseness" in their cavities
for production tolerance stackup. This means
that pressure contacts are subject to fretting
corrosion not unlike the condition we've all
seen in flashlights . . . bad cases require
that you "shake" the flashlight to get it
to brighten up.
I was skeptical of the posting and went out
to purchase three brands of 6v lantern
batteries from two sources. The first flag
went up when outside measurements of the
6v battery were exactly 2x the length
of a single AA cell. Stacked height of
two layers, 16 cells each would not have
enough room inside the 6v envelope to
wire and retain the loose cells. See:
http://tinyurl.com/2busaw
and
http://tinyurl.com/2fu59k
I pulled two batteries apart to find the expected
array of 4 f-cells. The loose "f-cell" used to be a
pretty common catalog item but now seems to have
gone underground and favored only by the military
as the Mil-B-18/79; BA-401/U (carbon zinc)
and BA-402/U (alkaline?).
http://tinyurl.com/2299l6
The last commercial stronghold of the f-cell seems
to be as components of a 6v lantern battery.
Bottom line is I believe the video is a hoax.
Several folks have communicated their interest
and obtained 6v lantern batteries. One guy had
the exact same brand as shown in the video. All
6v batteries examined had 4 "F" size cells.
The nagging question is why someone would do
such a thing. I'll bet thousands of 6V lantern
batteries have been torn open with the expectation
of finding a fist-full of AA cells . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation |
Money, money, money...must be funny in a rich mans world.
Gee this an IFR panel minus a nice GNS 430 and the needles....way
overkill, even for your supposed "Special" VFR departures (I say
supposed because there is a fine line between special VFR and
IFR...which will get you killed in short order)
Lets see you a gyro setup in the D100 which is totally not required and
steam guage backups.
Your very best and most reliable attitude indicator is "looking out the
window"...Thats what VFR flying is all about...On top of that this panel
now has redundant ASI's and altimeters.
Its very nice but you will never use most of it VFR.
If you really must have that "special" capability your still better off
with a wing levelling autopilot that will keep you sunny side up without
having to have the skills of an instrument pilot...I.e engage the A/P
onthe ground and fly stright out up and thru.
Frank
zodiac 400 hours VFR
RV7a 225 hours IFR
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret
Smith
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 8:32 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation
M,
Your paint scheme looks great! Actually, I "borrowed" the scheme from
the HondaJet prototype.
I must admit that I am not an avionics expert and would prefer to differ
your question to the many more knowledgeable folks on this list,
however, aside from the minimum requirements depicted in the FARs, I
would consider something like this:
* Dynon D100 - EFIS - Bright Screen
* Includes Backup Battery, Mounting Tray, Remote Mount
Compass, USB to Serial Port Cable & Factory Harness
* Dynon D120 - EMS - Bright Screen
* Includes 4 Cylinder Engine Probe Kit
* Garmin GPSMAP 396
* AirGizmo Panel Dock
* Garmin SL40 COM
* Garmin GTX327 Transponder*
* PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom
* UMA 2 1/4" Airspeed Indicator
* UMA 2 1/4" 20,000ft Atimeter
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H. M.
Haught Jr.
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Bret -
Enjoyed your site, and wanted to to know I am adapting your paint scheme
to a Bearhawk (file attached- dark color is a bright,deep orange over a
complimentary yellow shade - used for visibility in the bush). I like
the simplicity and I think it lends itself well to the Bearhawk lines.
Using your ideas for instrumentation, what are your thoughts on
instrumentation for a VFR airplane, that might occasionally, file
special VFR to get out of a low ceiling situation flying into clear air?
M. Haught
Bret Smith wrote:
Rob,
You asked "I wonder why you don't include at least the very
basic flight instruments that do not rely on electric power."
You will see that I am planning on the Z-13/8. This wiring
structure incorporates a dual buss with an 8amp alternate alternator to
power essential items should the main 60amp alternator go TU. The
PRIMARY backup is the TT two-axis autopilot. Triple backup is the TT
ADI (with it's own backup battery and GPS. No need for vacuum
instruments with this level of redundancy.
You said "having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit
overdone."
The primary GPS is the Garmin GNS430. The antenna will be
mounted under the glareshield (under a plexiglass panel) and will
support the EFIS as well as XM WX. The alt GPS is part of the Grand
Rapids Horizon 1 EFIS and is purely a VFR backup. It's antenna will be
mounted beside the Garmin antenna. Having dual antennas removes the
single point of failure in the design. The only other GPS is the backup
for the TT ADI. I'm not sure where you get a 4th GPS antenna although
it doesn't really matter since these small antennas together,
side-by-side will fit in the palm of your hand.
This model is a tried and true design and is currently being
flown by several fellow builders an a rock-solid IFR platform. Having
dual P-Mags offers an electrically independent engine as well. To my
understanding, the only "dark and stormy" scenario that would defeat the
design is an in-flight fire. In which case there is little one can do
except land ASAP.
I welcome your critique.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [
mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Turk
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 1:09 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
<matronics@rtist.nl> <mailto:matronics@rtist.nl>
Bret,
As you said, opinions differ. I looked at your site, and while
you have made some excellent choises, I wonder why you don't include at
least the very basic flight instruments that do not rely on electric
power.
Also, having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone.
Most GPS-based equipment accepts NMEA protocol. It's not hard to take
one GPS receiver and feed the NMEA protocol into all equipment that
requires position/speed information.
.. And so another episode in the discussion opens.. ;-)
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net> <mailto:smithhb@tds.net>
To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
<mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
<smithhb@tds.net> <mailto:smithhb@tds.net>
>
> Don,
>
> Regarding any and all aircraft avionics or electrical systems
you will
> soon
> discover that they are constantly changing and improving all
the time. As
> a
> result, like many of us, your original choices and decisions
will change
> frequently over time.
>
> No subject can ever close... We all are here for one reason,
to learn from
> each other to do the best we can possibly do. Opinions will
always vary
> and
> sometimes the repertoire can become quite lively, but in the
end we will
> learn something...and that is the goal.
>
> Here is my ongoing decision model from my website...
> http://www.flightinnovations.com/considerations.html.
>
> Welcome to our class.
>
>
> Bret Smith
> RV-9A (91314)
> Mineral Bluff, GA
> www.FlightInnovations.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of
> mosquito56
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:59 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> --> <mosquito-56@hotmail.com> <mailto:mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
>
> Great to see so many people putting in their 2 cents. I will
be closing
> this
> subject since everything is as clear as mud and alot of fun.
> Lots of great info. Thanx much for the info. Had a ball.
> Gday Don
>
> --------
> Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
> Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
> I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between
individuals
> for
> assistance in this thing we call life.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140585#140585
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>nbsp; Features Subscriptions href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> >http://www.p;
available via href="http://forums.matronics.com"
<http://forums.matronics.com> >http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation |
Frank,
I agree with you up to a point... The panel shown is an actual panel offered
by Chief Aircraft and sells for $11,450.00!
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Avionics/Avionics.html
You can actually do even better through John Stark. He had asked what "I"
would suggest for a VFR panel with some IFR capabilities. The addition of
an autopilot is for workload reduction or as a primary backup in the event
of an in-flight emergency.
I suppose any discussion on panel instrumentation should really be prefaced
with the intended price range...i.e.,
VFR panel under $5000.00
VFR/IFR panel under $10,000.00
IFR panel under $20,000.00
I personally know many pilots who spend $100,000+ for a spam can with 20
year old avionics only to spend another $20,000 to upgrade the panel. To
each his own.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,
Frank George (Corvallis)
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation
Money, money, money...must be funny in a rich mans world.
Gee this an IFR panel minus a nice GNS 430 and the needles....way overkill,
even for your supposed "Special" VFR departures (I say supposed because
there is a fine line between special VFR and IFR...which will get you killed
in short order)
Lets see you a gyro setup in the D100 which is totally not required and
steam guage backups.
Your very best and most reliable attitude indicator is "looking out the
window"...Thats what VFR flying is all about...On top of that this panel now
has redundant ASI's and altimeters.
Its very nice but you will never use most of it VFR.
If you really must have that "special" capability your still better off with
a wing levelling autopilot that will keep you sunny side up without having
to have the skills of an instrument pilot...I.e engage the A/P onthe ground
and fly stright out up and thru.
Frank
zodiac 400 hours VFR
RV7a 225 hours IFR
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret
Smith
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 8:32 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation
M,
Your paint scheme looks great! Actually, I "borrowed" the scheme from the
HondaJet prototype.
I must admit that I am not an avionics expert and would prefer to differ
your question to the many more knowledgeable folks on this list, however,
aside from the minimum requirements depicted in the FARs, I would consider
something like this:
* Dynon D100 - EFIS - Bright Screen
* Includes Backup Battery, Mounting Tray, Remote Mount Compass, USB to
Serial Port Cable & Factory Harness
* Dynon D120 - EMS - Bright Screen
* Includes 4 Cylinder Engine Probe Kit
* Garmin GPSMAP 396
* AirGizmo Panel Dock
* Garmin SL40 COM
* Garmin GTX327 Transponder*
* PS Engineering PM3000 Intercom
* UMA 2 1/4" Airspeed Indicator
* UMA 2 1/4" 20,000ft Atimeter
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H. M.
Haught Jr.
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
Bret -
Enjoyed your site, and wanted to to know I am adapting your paint scheme to
a Bearhawk (file attached- dark color is a bright,deep orange over a
complimentary yellow shade - used for visibility in the bush). I like the
simplicity and I think it lends itself well to the Bearhawk lines.
Using your ideas for instrumentation, what are your thoughts on
instrumentation for a VFR airplane, that might occasionally, file special
VFR to get out of a low ceiling situation flying into clear air?
M. Haught
Bret Smith wrote:
Rob,
You asked "I wonder why you don't include at least the very basic flight
instruments that do not rely on electric power."
You will see that I am planning on the Z-13/8. This wiring structure
incorporates a dual buss with an 8amp alternate alternator to power
essential items should the main 60amp alternator go TU. The PRIMARY backup
is the TT two-axis autopilot. Triple backup is the TT ADI (with it's own
backup battery and GPS. No need for vacuum instruments with this level of
redundancy.
You said "having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone."
The primary GPS is the Garmin GNS430. The antenna will be mounted under
the glareshield (under a plexiglass panel) and will support the EFIS as well
as XM WX. The alt GPS is part of the Grand Rapids Horizon 1 EFIS and is
purely a VFR backup. It's antenna will be mounted beside the Garmin
antenna. Having dual antennas removes the single point of failure in the
design. The only other GPS is the backup for the TT ADI. I'm not sure
where you get a 4th GPS antenna although it doesn't really matter since
these small antennas together, side-by-side will fit in the palm of your
hand.
This model is a tried and true design and is currently being flown by
several fellow builders an a rock-solid IFR platform. Having dual P-Mags
offers an electrically independent engine as well. To my understanding, the
only "dark and stormy" scenario that would defeat the design is an in-flight
fire. In which case there is little one can do except land ASAP.
I welcome your critique.
Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Turk
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
<mailto:matronics@rtist.nl> <matronics@rtist.nl>
Bret,
As you said, opinions differ. I looked at your site, and while you have made
some excellent choises, I wonder why you don't include at least the very
basic flight instruments that do not rely on electric power.
Also, having (4) GPS antenna's on-board sounds a bit overdone. Most
GPS-based equipment accepts NMEA protocol. It's not hard to take one GPS
receiver and feed the NMEA protocol into all equipment that requires
position/speed information.
.. And so another episode in the discussion opens.. ;-)
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret Smith" <mailto:smithhb@tds.net> <smithhb@tds.net>
<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
<mailto:smithhb@tds.net> <smithhb@tds.net>
>
> Don,
>
> Regarding any and all aircraft avionics or electrical systems you will
> soon
> discover that they are constantly changing and improving all the time. As
> a
> result, like many of us, your original choices and decisions will change
> frequently over time.
>
> No subject can ever close... We all are here for one reason, to learn from
> each other to do the best we can possibly do. Opinions will always vary
> and
> sometimes the repertoire can become quite lively, but in the end we will
> learn something...and that is the goal.
>
> Here is my ongoing decision model from my website...
> http://www.flightinnovations.com/considerations.html.
>
> Welcome to our class.
>
>
> Bret Smith
> RV-9A (91314)
> Mineral Bluff, GA
> www.FlightInnovations.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> mosquito56
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:59 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner
>
> --> <mailto:mosquito-56@hotmail.com> <mosquito-56@hotmail.com>
>
> Great to see so many people putting in their 2 cents. I will be closing
> this
> subject since everything is as clear as mud and alot of fun.
> Lots of great info. Thanx much for the info. Had a ball.
> Gday Don
>
> --------
> Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx
> Apologies if I seem antagonistic.
> I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals
> for
> assistance in this thing we call life.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140585#140585
>
>
>nbsp; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> >http://www.p;
available via href="http://forums.matronics.com"
<http://forums.matronics.com> >http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
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Message 12
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Can anyone tell me where to get a fiber washer insulator set for a 1/8 (aka
3.5mm) panel mount jack? This jack requires a 1/4" hole. This will
insulate the jack from the panel and be used for connecting a ipod to my
audio panel. If these are not available, what have others done to insulate
the ground connection from the panel.
Marty in Brentwood TN
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fiber Washer |
I believe the jacks sold through B&C come with the washers. I don't know if
they are available separately.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, 19 October, 2007 14:44
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fiber Washer
>
> Can anyone tell me where to get a fiber washer insulator set for a 1/8
> (aka
> 3.5mm) panel mount jack? This jack requires a 1/4" hole. This will
> insulate the jack from the panel and be used for connecting a ipod to my
> audio panel. If these are not available, what have others done to insulate
> the ground connection from the panel.
>
> Marty in Brentwood TN
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fiber Washer |
At 04:44 PM 10/19/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Can anyone tell me where to get a fiber washer insulator set for a 1/8 (aka
>3.5mm) panel mount jack? This jack requires a 1/4" hole. This will
>insulate the jack from the panel and be used for connecting a ipod to my
>audio panel. If these are not available, what have others done to insulate
>the ground connection from the panel.
>
>Marty in Brentwood TN
This is an "odd" sized fiber washer for the
a/c industry. I've seen them available on special
order in bags of 100 or 1,000 but never in ones
for end users.
See http://mcmaster.com and do a search for
93920A160 This washer has a 1/4" clearance
hole, extends a .03" barrel through a 5/16"
hole and has a .5" x .04" flange.
A mating flat washer would be 90089A315
Bags of 100 will cost you about $20 total. Considering
how much $time$ you might spend looking for
a few, these might be the lower cost solution.
Alternatively, consider drilling holes in the sheet
metal that will clear all the jack's hardware, probably
.5"
Back up the holes with a sheet of 1/16" fiberglas or
phenolic sheet. Then drill 1/4" holes in fiberglas
to mount the jacks. The insulator sheet can be
bonded into place with something like E6000 to
avoid adding any visible, extra holes in the panel.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fiber Washer |
At 07:05 PM 10/19/2007 -0700, you wrote:
><N1DeltaWhiskey@comcast.net>
>
>I believe the jacks sold through B&C come with the washers. I don't know
>if they are available separately.
>
>Doug
These washers will be for the standard .25" headphone
and .205" microphone jacks, both of which mount in
3/8" holes. Marty is looking for smaller ones.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe Cable |
Bob,
Your first answer is what I really needed. I have been putting
together a list of all the wire I expect I will need (probably as
accurate as a weather forecast).
I want to buy everything at once from a single vendor, which reduces
shipping and brokerage charges to Canada significantly.
I have been amazed at how many vendors really don't have common sizes
and colors in stock. One of the largest Canadian vendors has only 10%
of what I need in stock :-(
Wire Masters has everything, expect they have to substitute
M27500-16TG3T14 for the TE that I requested. Since the thinner
insulation is ok, then I can place my order.
Thanks,
Jeff
> Jeff,
>
> Check http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/32/cat32.htm?620
>
> Give him a call and see if what he sells is what you want. I've
> only done business with him one time but was very satisfied and he
> did save me a few dollars.
> I am looking to buy 3 conductor shielded 16 gauge wire for my wing tip
> strobes.
As far as I know, the wire shipped in factory kits for
strobe installation has been a Belden product having
100% coverage, "Beldfoil" shield. These products
are described in the documents you'll find at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Wire/Belden/
> I have been looking for M27500-16TE3T14 but can only find M27500-16TG3T14.
> Looking at wire specs, it is difficult to see differences.
> I think the main difference between the two is that TE wire has
> M22759/16 wires, which have thicker insulation than TG wire with
> M22759/18 wires.
> Since the wires are protected inside the jacket, does the insulation
> thickness matter for my purposes ?
No, either of those wires would do. The wire gage
isn't really critical either. Voltage drop in smaller
even smaller wires is insignificant for these
installations. The insulation for Belden wire
is PVC over Polyethylene. This is admittedly
a "1960s" wire product but has proven successful
in hundreds of thousands of aircraft. This is
a low energy circuit that doesn't need
fault protection for the installed wires so
spending much $time$ acquiring a more exotic
wire product may not be well invested.
Bob . . .
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