---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/24/07: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: E-MAG wiring Z13-8 (Frank Stringham) 2. 06:03 AM - Re: Antenna mounting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: E-MAG wiring Z13-8 (Frank Stringham) 4. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: E-MAG wiring Z13-8 (Michael T. Ice) 5. 09:35 AM - XM audio input (Paul Eckenroth) 6. 12:56 PM - Re: Question on Z16 in aeroelectric connection (Donald J Smith) 7. 01:17 PM - Re: XM audio input (Ron Quillin) 8. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation (MauleDriver) 9. 04:45 PM - Re: Question on Z16 in aeroelectric connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:27 AM PST US From: "Frank Stringham" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-MAG wiring Z13-8 Bob and others I have wired my aircraft (rv7A) according to the scheme Z13-8. I sure hate to rewire .....so after meeting with the good folks from E-mag is the Z13-8 no longer viable or am I still OK to go with it! Thanks for all your efforts in behalf of we experimenters. Frank @ SGU RV7A 95% DONE 120% TO GO >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >To: "Brad Dement" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-MAG wiring >Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:09:33 -0600 > > > >Brad, > >I note that it has been about 18 months since we last "talked". >I've been trying to plan a trip to your neck of the woods >so we can meet personally. I was at OSH this past year but >had to make it a quick in-and-out to support the forums I'd >signed up for . . . my dad was in his last days in Medicine Lodge, >KS and I didn't have time for socializing. > >In any case, I'd like to take this opportunity to renew our >acquaintance to update myself on the progress of your efforts >over the past year and a half. I also need to expand >my understanding of your products so that I don't offer >poor advise when publishing words and drawings that speak >of e-Mag devices. > >After adding e-Mag products to our electrical system architecture >drawings over a year ago, I put on my "systems integrator" >hat for certified aircraft and deduced that from the >pilot's perspective, it's useful to test the systems ability >to run self powered during preflight. From both a builder's >and pilot's perspectives, it's useful to minimize the number >of switches on the panel. > >I crafted a suggested wiring diagram which was published >as our Figure Z-33 and excerpted in one or more of the >full-up aircraft drawings. See: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z33K.pdf > >In this drawing you can see that three-position, progressive >transfer switches are incorporated to have an OFF position >that grounds the RED control lead and breaks power to the >ORN lead from the battery bus. > >The mid position removes the ground from the control lead >but does not apply power. The upper position leaves the >control lead ungrounded and adds bus power to the system. >The thought was that by means of logical positioning of >switches a pilot could demonstrate that a P-Mag would run >self-powered during a preflight run-up. > >A third maintenance switch was necessary to take advantage >of built-in timing functions. A switch under the cowl >would offer a means by which the e-mag/p-mag could be >powered up for timing leaving the rest of the aircraft >'cold'. > >Here are the Figure Z-33 notes that accompany the wiring >diagram in the AeroElectric Connection. > >--------begin excerpt------- > >Figure Z-33 P-Mag Maintenance Mode and Hand >Propping Option. E-Mags and P-Mags are a unique >product in that as the factory points out, have TWO >switchable functionsPower and control. Their installation >manuals suggest separate switches but in a quest for the >minimalist panel, I crafted the drawing for P-Mags in Figure >Z-33 which is repeated in Figure Z-13/8. > >. . . now, be aware that the sequence of switching functions >depicted have been commented on by the good folks at EMagair >suggesting that switch movements should bring >power on first followed by activating the magneto. > >My wiring diagram shows the opposite sequence, ignition >"active" first followed by supporting power. The reason is >quite simple. There are separate but divergent interests in >the ownership and operation of the p-mag: >(1) When sitting at the end of the runway doing a pre-flight, >the PILOT'S interest is "are the built in alternators for each >P-Mag functioning?" By wiring as I've suggested, moving >the switch from full up to the mid position deprives a P-Mag >of electrical support and (if the run-up RPMS are high >enough), the ignition will not falter when dropped to the mid >position. Of course, the opposite ignition needs to be >completely OFF at this time. > >Pre-flight test sequence would be: > >RUN-UP RPM . . . . . Set >L-IGN Switch . . . . . . . OFF >R-IGN Switch . . . . . . . ON but no BAT (mid position) >Note engine does not falter >L-IGN Switch . . . . . . . ON but no BAT (mid position) >R-IGN Switch . . . . . . . OFF >Note engine does not falter >Both IGN Switches . . . . BAT > >(2) A secondary interest is what might be called the >maintenance mode for ground ops where the mechanic >wants to have the systems powered but inactive for using a >P-mag's built-in timing features -OR- for hand propping the >engine where again, it's useful to be able to hear the timing >buzzer. > >In this mode, you MUST have battery power available to the >P-Mags even when in the inactive state. The diagram >shows a third switch (accessible through the oil check/ >filler door?) that places temporary power on both ignitions >while leaving absolute control over activity in the hands of >whoever has access to pilot's controls on the panel. >If one chooses this architecture, then a light on the panel >should be included to alert the pilot should the switch be left >in the maintenance position. Not a big risk from a fight >operations and safety perspective but it WOULD run the >battery down. > >This figure adds a switch to allow powering up the e-Mag/p-Mag >product while leaving it de-activated. This feature >activates the built in aural timing buzzer needed for timing >the ignition system -AND- for proper pre-positioning the >prop for hand-propping the engine. > >--- end of excerpt ---- > >I've been told via the 'grapevine' that operating the >p-Mag in the manner suggested has some issues with respect >to product performance. Specifically that if power is >removed from a p-Mag and then replaced that the processor >wanders into the weeds and upsets the system's timing. > >Understand my friend that I was in no way trying to do >an end-run on you . . . it seemed that the wiring/operating >scheme I was suggesting covered some bases that I would >be required to address with systems wieners, test pilots >and DERs should I be tasked with qualifying your product >onto a type certificated aircraft. > >If indeed it is a bad thing to remove and then replace >power on a p-Mag while it's operating, then I'm mystified. >Irrespective of the aircraft's electrical architecture, >DO-160 suggests we design our products to gracefully >recover from a power interruption . . . if the >'grapevine' stories are accurate, then the p-Mag would >not fair well in a DO-160 investigation. > >If the internal alternator is poised to pick up the load >during a power outage I'm further mystified as to why >a p-Mag would even be aware of bus power interruptions. >The spirit and intent of the proposed pre-flight test >was to demonstrate that the p-Mag was ready, willing >and able to run if the bus goes down. I would expect >the processor in a running p-Mag to be oblivious >of whether or not bus power was present. > >I confess that my assumptions about functionality >of your product were being filtered through the logic >used to craft products for the TC aircraft world and >I may have stubbed my toe by not clearing this idea >with you. I'd be pleased to understand the true >nature of the beast with a goal of offering our >collective customers the best we know how to do in >crafting an owner built and maintained aircraft. > >I still want to visit your facilities. I also >need to drop into George Braley's place in >southern OK. I might just take a couple days pretty >soon and make this trip happen. I've been 'retired' >from Beech for about two months . . . I've done more >new design work the past 6 weeks than I've done the >past 6-years! Problem is that what I thought was going >to be a 20 hr/wk retirement activity has turned into >a more-than-full-time job. I've told my principal >that I can do this for awhile . . . but I've have >some fun things that need to happen pretty soon too. > >It would also be helpful if you could give me a >engineer's narrative of field problems with e-mag >products in the field. Folks are asking me about them >and I have to confess ignorance in the matter. Further, >if there's anything in my bag-of-tricks that might >be helpful in your endeavors, I can make you a really >great deal. I've written several times that the e-Mag >products promise to be the next great thing in ignition >systems for light aircraft. I'd be pleased to be of >assistance for making that hopeful assertion a >demonstrable reality. > >Kindest regards, > >Bob . . . > > _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop by today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna mounting At 12:59 PM 10/23/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >I am planning on mounting a NAV/COM antenna on each wing. >I expect I should put a doubler under the skin and I should drill >whatever holes are necessary prior to rivetting on the skins. > >I know nothing about the mounting characteristics of these antennas :-( >Do they all need the same size hole ? There are no "standards" for antenna mounting holes and patterns . . . >Or do I need to select an antenna now and tailor the installation for it ? Yes . . >Recommendations for use with a Garmin SL30 ? When you say Nav/Com antenna, we're not sure which one you're referring to. The communications antenna is generally separate from the localizer/omnirange navigation antenna. The typical nav/com installation is a suite of two antennas and may add a third for glide slope if the radio includes that capability. In any case, which ever antenna you're citing, you'll have to have the antenna in hand (or manufacturer's installation data) before you can craft your hole pattern. Virtually any of the antennas on the market will perform as advertised with your radio . . . as long as you have the right type connected to each of the radio's antenna ports. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:07 AM PST US From: "Frank Stringham" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-MAG wiring Z13-8 Bob and others I have wired my aircraft (rv7A) according to the scheme Z13-8. I sure hate to rewire .....so after meeting with the good folks from E-mag is the Z13-8 no longer viable or am I still OK to go with it! Thanks for all your efforts in behalf of we experimenters. Frank @ SGU RV7A 95% DONE 120% TO GO ps. have problems with the old computer so if you get this twice.....sorry >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >To: "Brad Dement" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-MAG wiring >Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:09:33 -0600 > > > >Brad, > >I note that it has been about 18 months since we last "talked". >I've been trying to plan a trip to your neck of the woods >so we can meet personally. I was at OSH this past year but >had to make it a quick in-and-out to support the forums I'd >signed up for . . . my dad was in his last days in Medicine Lodge, >KS and I didn't have time for socializing. > >In any case, I'd like to take this opportunity to renew our >acquaintance to update myself on the progress of your efforts >over the past year and a half. I also need to expand >my understanding of your products so that I don't offer >poor advise when publishing words and drawings that speak >of e-Mag devices. > >After adding e-Mag products to our electrical system architecture >drawings over a year ago, I put on my "systems integrator" >hat for certified aircraft and deduced that from the >pilot's perspective, it's useful to test the systems ability >to run self powered during preflight. From both a builder's >and pilot's perspectives, it's useful to minimize the number >of switches on the panel. > >I crafted a suggested wiring diagram which was published >as our Figure Z-33 and excerpted in one or more of the >full-up aircraft drawings. See: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z33K.pdf > >In this drawing you can see that three-position, progressive >transfer switches are incorporated to have an OFF position >that grounds the RED control lead and breaks power to the >ORN lead from the battery bus. > >The mid position removes the ground from the control lead >but does not apply power. The upper position leaves the >control lead ungrounded and adds bus power to the system. >The thought was that by means of logical positioning of >switches a pilot could demonstrate that a P-Mag would run >self-powered during a preflight run-up. > >A third maintenance switch was necessary to take advantage >of built-in timing functions. A switch under the cowl >would offer a means by which the e-mag/p-mag could be >powered up for timing leaving the rest of the aircraft >'cold'. > >Here are the Figure Z-33 notes that accompany the wiring >diagram in the AeroElectric Connection. > >--------begin excerpt------- > >Figure Z-33 P-Mag Maintenance Mode and Hand >Propping Option. E-Mags and P-Mags are a unique >product in that as the factory points out, have TWO >switchable functionsPower and control. Their installation >manuals suggest separate switches but in a quest for the >minimalist panel, I crafted the drawing for P-Mags in Figure >Z-33 which is repeated in Figure Z-13/8. > >. . . now, be aware that the sequence of switching functions >depicted have been commented on by the good folks at EMagair >suggesting that switch movements should bring >power on first followed by activating the magneto. > >My wiring diagram shows the opposite sequence, ignition >"active" first followed by supporting power. The reason is >quite simple. There are separate but divergent interests in >the ownership and operation of the p-mag: >(1) When sitting at the end of the runway doing a pre-flight, >the PILOT'S interest is "are the built in alternators for each >P-Mag functioning?" By wiring as I've suggested, moving >the switch from full up to the mid position deprives a P-Mag >of electrical support and (if the run-up RPMS are high >enough), the ignition will not falter when dropped to the mid >position. Of course, the opposite ignition needs to be >completely OFF at this time. > >Pre-flight test sequence would be: > >RUN-UP RPM . . . . . Set >L-IGN Switch . . . . . . . OFF >R-IGN Switch . . . . . . . ON but no BAT (mid position) >Note engine does not falter >L-IGN Switch . . . . . . . ON but no BAT (mid position) >R-IGN Switch . . . . . . . OFF >Note engine does not falter >Both IGN Switches . . . . BAT > >(2) A secondary interest is what might be called the >maintenance mode for ground ops where the mechanic >wants to have the systems powered but inactive for using a >P-mag's built-in timing features -OR- for hand propping the >engine where again, it's useful to be able to hear the timing >buzzer. > >In this mode, you MUST have battery power available to the >P-Mags even when in the inactive state. The diagram >shows a third switch (accessible through the oil check/ >filler door?) that places temporary power on both ignitions >while leaving absolute control over activity in the hands of >whoever has access to pilot's controls on the panel. >If one chooses this architecture, then a light on the panel >should be included to alert the pilot should the switch be left >in the maintenance position. Not a big risk from a fight >operations and safety perspective but it WOULD run the >battery down. > >This figure adds a switch to allow powering up the e-Mag/p-Mag >product while leaving it de-activated. This feature >activates the built in aural timing buzzer needed for timing >the ignition system -AND- for proper pre-positioning the >prop for hand-propping the engine. > >--- end of excerpt ---- > >I've been told via the 'grapevine' that operating the >p-Mag in the manner suggested has some issues with respect >to product performance. Specifically that if power is >removed from a p-Mag and then replaced that the processor >wanders into the weeds and upsets the system's timing. > >Understand my friend that I was in no way trying to do >an end-run on you . . . it seemed that the wiring/operating >scheme I was suggesting covered some bases that I would >be required to address with systems wieners, test pilots >and DERs should I be tasked with qualifying your product >onto a type certificated aircraft. > >If indeed it is a bad thing to remove and then replace >power on a p-Mag while it's operating, then I'm mystified. >Irrespective of the aircraft's electrical architecture, >DO-160 suggests we design our products to gracefully >recover from a power interruption . . . if the >'grapevine' stories are accurate, then the p-Mag would >not fair well in a DO-160 investigation. > >If the internal alternator is poised to pick up the load >during a power outage I'm further mystified as to why >a p-Mag would even be aware of bus power interruptions. >The spirit and intent of the proposed pre-flight test >was to demonstrate that the p-Mag was ready, willing >and able to run if the bus goes down. I would expect >the processor in a running p-Mag to be oblivious >of whether or not bus power was present. > >I confess that my assumptions about functionality >of your product were being filtered through the logic >used to craft products for the TC aircraft world and >I may have stubbed my toe by not clearing this idea >with you. I'd be pleased to understand the true >nature of the beast with a goal of offering our >collective customers the best we know how to do in >crafting an owner built and maintained aircraft. > >I still want to visit your facilities. I also >need to drop into George Braley's place in >southern OK. I might just take a couple days pretty >soon and make this trip happen. I've been 'retired' >from Beech for about two months . . . I've done more >new design work the past 6 weeks than I've done the >past 6-years! Problem is that what I thought was going >to be a 20 hr/wk retirement activity has turned into >a more-than-full-time job. I've told my principal >that I can do this for awhile . . . but I've have >some fun things that need to happen pretty soon too. > >It would also be helpful if you could give me a >engineer's narrative of field problems with e-mag >products in the field. Folks are asking me about them >and I have to confess ignorance in the matter. Further, >if there's anything in my bag-of-tricks that might >be helpful in your endeavors, I can make you a really >great deal. I've written several times that the e-Mag >products promise to be the next great thing in ignition >systems for light aircraft. I'd be pleased to be of >assistance for making that hopeful assertion a >demonstrable reality. > >Kindest regards, > >Bob . . . > > _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop by today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:19 AM PST US From: "Michael T. Ice" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-MAG wiring Z13-8 Frank, I and others have waited for this revision as well. To be safe rather than sorry I chose to take out the Z13-8 wiring system to the E/P mags and rewired according to the Emagair system. It is hard to fault the manufacturers suggested way to wire their product. It isn't all that hard to rewire according to the Emagair plan. I would suggest that you rip out the Z13-8 and go with the Emagair system. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Stringham" Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:05 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-MAG wiring Z13-8 > > > Bob and others > > I have wired my aircraft (rv7A) according to the scheme Z13-8. I sure hate > to rewire .....so after meeting with the good folks from E-mag is the > Z13-8 no longer viable or am I still OK to go with it! > > Thanks for all your efforts in behalf of we experimenters. > > Frank @ SGU RV7A 95% DONE 120% TO GO > > ps. have problems with the old computer so if you get this twice.....sorry > > >>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >>To: "Brad Dement" >>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: E-MAG wiring >>Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:09:33 -0600 >> >> >> >>Brad, >> >>I note that it has been about 18 months since we last "talked". >>I've been trying to plan a trip to your neck of the woods >>so we can meet personally. I was at OSH this past year but >>had to make it a quick in-and-out to support the forums I'd >>signed up for . . . my dad was in his last days in Medicine Lodge, >>KS and I didn't have time for socializing. >> >>In any case, I'd like to take this opportunity to renew our >>acquaintance to update myself on the progress of your efforts >>over the past year and a half. I also need to expand >>my understanding of your products so that I don't offer >>poor advise when publishing words and drawings that speak >>of e-Mag devices. >> >>After adding e-Mag products to our electrical system architecture >>drawings over a year ago, I put on my "systems integrator" >>hat for certified aircraft and deduced that from the >>pilot's perspective, it's useful to test the systems ability >>to run self powered during preflight. From both a builder's >>and pilot's perspectives, it's useful to minimize the number >>of switches on the panel. >> >>I crafted a suggested wiring diagram which was published >>as our Figure Z-33 and excerpted in one or more of the >>full-up aircraft drawings. See: >> >>http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z33K.pdf >> >>In this drawing you can see that three-position, progressive >>transfer switches are incorporated to have an OFF position >>that grounds the RED control lead and breaks power to the >>ORN lead from the battery bus. >> >>The mid position removes the ground from the control lead >>but does not apply power. The upper position leaves the >>control lead ungrounded and adds bus power to the system. >>The thought was that by means of logical positioning of >>switches a pilot could demonstrate that a P-Mag would run >>self-powered during a preflight run-up. >> >>A third maintenance switch was necessary to take advantage >>of built-in timing functions. A switch under the cowl >>would offer a means by which the e-mag/p-mag could be >>powered up for timing leaving the rest of the aircraft >>'cold'. >> >>Here are the Figure Z-33 notes that accompany the wiring >>diagram in the AeroElectric Connection. >> >>--------begin excerpt------- >> >>Figure Z-33 P-Mag Maintenance Mode and Hand >>Propping Option. E-Mags and P-Mags are a unique >>product in that as the factory points out, have TWO >>switchable functionsPower and control. Their installation >>manuals suggest separate switches but in a quest for the >>minimalist panel, I crafted the drawing for P-Mags in Figure >>Z-33 which is repeated in Figure Z-13/8. >> >>. . . now, be aware that the sequence of switching functions >>depicted have been commented on by the good folks at EMagair >>suggesting that switch movements should bring >>power on first followed by activating the magneto. >> >>My wiring diagram shows the opposite sequence, ignition >>"active" first followed by supporting power. The reason is >>quite simple. There are separate but divergent interests in >>the ownership and operation of the p-mag: >>(1) When sitting at the end of the runway doing a pre-flight, >>the PILOT'S interest is "are the built in alternators for each >>P-Mag functioning?" By wiring as I've suggested, moving >>the switch from full up to the mid position deprives a P-Mag >>of electrical support and (if the run-up RPMS are high >>enough), the ignition will not falter when dropped to the mid >>position. Of course, the opposite ignition needs to be >>completely OFF at this time. >> >>Pre-flight test sequence would be: >> >>RUN-UP RPM . . . . . Set >>L-IGN Switch . . . . . . . OFF >>R-IGN Switch . . . . . . . ON but no BAT (mid position) >>Note engine does not falter >>L-IGN Switch . . . . . . . ON but no BAT (mid position) >>R-IGN Switch . . . . . . . OFF >>Note engine does not falter >>Both IGN Switches . . . . BAT >> >>(2) A secondary interest is what might be called the >>maintenance mode for ground ops where the mechanic >>wants to have the systems powered but inactive for using a >>P-mag's built-in timing features -OR- for hand propping the >>engine where again, it's useful to be able to hear the timing >>buzzer. >> >>In this mode, you MUST have battery power available to the >>P-Mags even when in the inactive state. The diagram >>shows a third switch (accessible through the oil check/ >>filler door?) that places temporary power on both ignitions >>while leaving absolute control over activity in the hands of >>whoever has access to pilot's controls on the panel. >>If one chooses this architecture, then a light on the panel >>should be included to alert the pilot should the switch be left >>in the maintenance position. Not a big risk from a fight >>operations and safety perspective but it WOULD run the >>battery down. >> >>This figure adds a switch to allow powering up the e-Mag/p-Mag >>product while leaving it de-activated. This feature >>activates the built in aural timing buzzer needed for timing >>the ignition system -AND- for proper pre-positioning the >>prop for hand-propping the engine. >> >>--- end of excerpt ---- >> >>I've been told via the 'grapevine' that operating the >>p-Mag in the manner suggested has some issues with respect >>to product performance. Specifically that if power is >>removed from a p-Mag and then replaced that the processor >>wanders into the weeds and upsets the system's timing. >> >>Understand my friend that I was in no way trying to do >>an end-run on you . . . it seemed that the wiring/operating >>scheme I was suggesting covered some bases that I would >>be required to address with systems wieners, test pilots >>and DERs should I be tasked with qualifying your product >>onto a type certificated aircraft. >> >>If indeed it is a bad thing to remove and then replace >>power on a p-Mag while it's operating, then I'm mystified. >>Irrespective of the aircraft's electrical architecture, >>DO-160 suggests we design our products to gracefully >>recover from a power interruption . . . if the >>'grapevine' stories are accurate, then the p-Mag would >>not fair well in a DO-160 investigation. >> >>If the internal alternator is poised to pick up the load >>during a power outage I'm further mystified as to why >>a p-Mag would even be aware of bus power interruptions. >>The spirit and intent of the proposed pre-flight test >>was to demonstrate that the p-Mag was ready, willing >>and able to run if the bus goes down. I would expect >>the processor in a running p-Mag to be oblivious >>of whether or not bus power was present. >> >>I confess that my assumptions about functionality >>of your product were being filtered through the logic >>used to craft products for the TC aircraft world and >>I may have stubbed my toe by not clearing this idea >>with you. I'd be pleased to understand the true >>nature of the beast with a goal of offering our >>collective customers the best we know how to do in >>crafting an owner built and maintained aircraft. >> >>I still want to visit your facilities. I also >>need to drop into George Braley's place in >>southern OK. I might just take a couple days pretty >>soon and make this trip happen. I've been 'retired' >>from Beech for about two months . . . I've done more >>new design work the past 6 weeks than I've done the >>past 6-years! Problem is that what I thought was going >>to be a 20 hr/wk retirement activity has turned into >>a more-than-full-time job. I've told my principal >>that I can do this for awhile . . . but I've have >>some fun things that need to happen pretty soon too. >> >>It would also be helpful if you could give me a >>engineer's narrative of field problems with e-mag >>products in the field. Folks are asking me about them >>and I have to confess ignorance in the matter. Further, >>if there's anything in my bag-of-tricks that might >>be helpful in your endeavors, I can make you a really >>great deal. I've written several times that the e-Mag >>products promise to be the next great thing in ignition >>systems for light aircraft. I'd be pleased to be of >>assistance for making that hopeful assertion a >>demonstrable reality. >> >>Kindest regards, >> >>Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf. Stop > by today! > http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_OctHMtagline > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:24 AM PST US From: "Paul Eckenroth" Subject: AeroElectric-List: XM audio input I have a Terk Commander XM installed in my RV9A with the audio into the unswitched music input of the audio panel (PMA 8000). The Terk Commander does not have a volume control as it is intended to be run through the car radio and utilize the volume control in the radio. I can control the volume by adjusting the individual controls on the headsets but this is not ideal. I would like a method of adjusting the volume between the XM output and the audio panel input. I am sure that I am not the first to confront this problem. When responding please keep in mind that I can follow instructions but I am not electronically gifted. Paul Eckenroth ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:45 PM PST US From: "Donald J Smith" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question on Z16 in aeroelectric connection The rotax alternator is a permanent magnet type and it has two outputs (two yellows). I'm guessing but these might be different phases. So disconnecting one yellow line might still allow output to the regulator. regards Donald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Prather" Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:27 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question on Z16 in aeroelectric connection > > Disconnecting the alternator doesn't stop it's output, sort of. The > primary goal of the relay is to keep a misbehaving alternator from > damaging other things that are connected to the system, like avionics, and > the battery. > > Disconnecting the alternator from the bus will mostly drive its output > current to zero (and hence power/wattage), though the output voltage may > go up quite a bit - 80v (unregulated/failed regulator) - on a wound field > unit I think, or become quite unstable/noisy (who cares) - it's not > connected to anything. > > > Regards, > > Matt- > > > > > > > > Can anyone explain how the alternator output is stopped or disconnected > > when > > the Alternator OV Disconnect Relay breaks the Voltage Regulator Yel wire? > > I > > do not undersatnd how this works when C B and R are still connected. An > > explanation as to how this regulator works would be useful. > > > > Regards > > > > Donald J Smith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: XM audio input From: Ron Quillin A dual ~1K pot seems like a simple solution. Outputs from the Terk to the top, CW, end of the pots, wipers to the PMA inputs and pot CCW ends to common. A "volume" control. Use a log, audio, taper pot. Ron Q. At 08:35 10/24/2007, you wrote: > > >I have a Terk Commander XM installed in my RV9A with the audio into >the unswitched music input of the audio panel (PMA 8000). The Terk >Commander does not have a volume control as it is intended to be run >through the car radio and utilize the volume control in the >radio. I can control the volume by adjusting the individual >controls on the headsets but this is not ideal. I would like a >method of adjusting the volume between the XM output and the audio >panel input. I am sure that I am not the first to confront this >problem. When responding please keep in mind that I can follow >instructions but I am not electronically gifted. > >Paul Eckenroth ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:32 PM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: VFR Preferred Instrumentation Hear hear Neal and Bob! I'd 2nd the motion to encourage everyone who wants to travel with their plane to get the Instrument rating. It gives you the minimum skills needed to stay alive in unforeseen visibility situations. With continued care and use, it opens the door to real travel with your personal a/c. Everything they said with some emphasis; As a frequent flyer along TFR alley, flying IFR reduces the liability and just makes the whole thing easier. In fact, almost any CC flight is easier IFR. And when it's not, just cancel it as I did for a beautiful flight over Manhatten recently. BTW, getting the rating WILL remove any radio inhibitions you may harbor. Knowing how to work in the system is one of the very satisfying skills gained in addition to hand flying on the guages. Neal George wrote: > Well said Bob ! Ladies and Gentlemen, Old Bob has exposed the nugget > of this thread. > > I'd add that it's immeasurably safer (to your ticket and your person), > and less expensive, too, especially of you use your airplane to go > places on anything resembling a schedule. > > I travel A LOT in the course of my AF duties. I > take the CherokeeJet whenever possible (115 Kts - WFO, downhill). > More often than not, I beat my co-workers there _and_ home, at less > expense, and on MY schedule, not the cattle car's. > > And always on a IFR flight plan. Simply couldn't do it VFR and make > the meetings (or stay married). IFR will (OK, should) keep one out of > a hot MOA or campaigning congressman TFR... even those that bloom out > of nowhere...after launch...VFR (CAVU, even)...six hours and a fuel > stop en route... (plausible fiction follows) > FBI - "Capt George, why were you flying a straight line from Morganton > to Manassas that intersected the TFR surrounding Congressman > Bluster's campaign stop?" > Me - "Didn't happen." > FBI - "Capt George, we have radar track data that puts you directly > over the congressman's podium while the TFR was active." > Me - "I called 1-800-WXBRIEF, talked to YOUR /contractor/, filed IFR > Direct MRN-HEF, specifically asked about TFRs, and was ensured there > were no TFR's associated with my route of flight. We discussed en > route weather and the area that until recently resembled a certain > mouse. I had a discrete squawk code and was in constant communication > with ATC on an IFR flight plan under ATC control. How could I have > violated a TFR?" > FBI - "Capt George, give me your License." > Me - "NoSir. I remember the trouble Bob Hoover had... Shall we > review the tape?" > (End plausible fiction, but I expect it would go downhill from there...) > > Anybody remember a few weeks ago when one of our associates was beat > up for "loitering" over a power plant...at >160 kts...more than 5 NM > away...well over 3000 ft above...on a straight line to landing? > > Bonus! - Dxxxx Airlines can't abandon me in Atlanta <8-O - but I CAN > drag out a fuel stop to enjoy supper, or divert and spend the evening > with friends or family if the weather or SAFETY dictate... > > *Neal E. George* > 2023 Everglades Drive > Navarre, FL 32566 > Home - 850-515-0640 > Cell - 850-218-4838 > > > *On Behalf Of *BobsV35B@aol.com > It is LOT easier to learn to fly IFR than it is to learn how to get > around the country safely in VFR conditions. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > ** > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:33 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question on Z16 in aeroelectric connection At 08:56 PM 10/24/2007 +0100, you wrote: > > >The rotax alternator is a permanent magnet type and it has two outputs (two >yellows). I'm guessing but these might be different phases. So >disconnecting one yellow line might still allow output to the regulator. > >regards > >Donald No, it's a single phase alternator with yellow output wires. Breaking either wire disconnects the alternator from the regulator and shuts down the power generation system. Yes, output voltage from the unloaded alternator windings is high but current is zero. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.