Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:41 AM - Re: transponder recommendation (Rob Turk)
2. 05:47 AM - Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:01 AM - Re: transponder recommendation (Ernest Christley)
4. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: Power Cord (Frank Stringham)
5. 06:31 AM - Re: transponder recommendation (JOHN TIPTON)
6. 06:48 AM - Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:57 AM - Re: Z-19 ECU wiring question (mikef)
8. 07:05 AM - Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation (Eric Parlow)
9. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: Power Cord (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:31 AM - Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 12:33 PM - Transponders (emrath@comcast.net)
12. 01:34 PM - Radio Static Help (ScooterF15)
13. 02:13 PM - 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications (Eric Parlow)
14. 02:28 PM - Re: 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications (Michel Creek)
15. 02:32 PM - Re: transponder recommendation (Michel Creek)
16. 02:52 PM - 24v Battery Charger (Eric Parlow)
17. 03:08 PM - Re: Radio Static Help (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
18. 03:10 PM - Re: Radio Static Help (Matt Prather)
19. 03:18 PM - Re: Radio Static Help (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
20. 03:21 PM - Re: Radio Static Help (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
21. 03:39 PM - Re: transponder recommendation (Ernest Christley)
22. 04:54 PM - Re: transponder recommendation (Michel Creek)
23. 05:03 PM - Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted (The Kuffels)
24. 05:24 PM - Re: transponder recommendation (Matt Prather)
25. 08:18 PM - Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 10:45 PM - Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted (The Kuffels)
27. 11:38 PM - Re: Radio Static Help (jetboy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
Some regions in Europe are demanding Mode-S transponders as early as March
2008, so expect used-but-good Mode-C transponders to show up soon on sites
like Barnstormers.
If you need Mode-S in your area any time soon then you may want to look at
Filser. Their TRT800 transponder has the encoder built-in, so only static
pressure is needed. They have versions that fit 2 1/4" round panel cut-outs
and versions that are drop-in replacement for the square boxes.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:41 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
>
> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
> encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy and
> maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that most
> seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary requirements.
> It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional 7500, if I have to
> point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains, because the wife is
> with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the crowded east coast, and the
> annular slot antennae I built is supposed to give me 6dB of gain in the
> direction that ATC will be (down).
>
> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
> serial input?
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation |
At 09:47 AM 10/27/2007 -0400, you wrote:
><ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
>Looking for a 24v battery charger; recommendations?
>
>Two tasks: charging & maintaining
>
>Does one charger do both well?
>
>ERic--
>RV-10 N104EP
Is your battery a "real" 24V device or a pair
of 12s in series? 24V hardware is rare compared
to 12V stuff. In fact, I'm not aware of any
24 charger/maintainers but I'm sure they're out
there. A Google search is the place to start.
If you have a pair of 12s, consider a pair of
Battery Tender like:
http://www.batteryweb.com/batterytender-detail.cfm?Model=021-0123
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr.jpg
I've found these "in the wild" for a little
as $29 plus shipping. They recharge like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge.pdf
You'll find a LOT of 24v battery service products
but you'll not too that their prices are not
nearly as attractive as the "wall wart" style
tenders.
Know too that Schumacher products sold at Wall
Mart are now "smart chargers". See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Schumacher_WM-1562.jpg
and recharge like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_6.jpg
Their smallest models are on the order of $20
each and you don't need to pay shipping
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
Rob Turk wrote:
>
> Some regions in Europe are demanding Mode-S transponders as early as
> March 2008, so expect used-but-good Mode-C transponders to show up
> soon on sites like Barnstormers.
>
> If you need Mode-S in your area any time soon then you may want to
> look at Filser. Their TRT800 transponder has the encoder built-in, so
> only static pressure is needed. They have versions that fit 2 1/4"
> round panel cut-outs and versions that are drop-in replacement for the
> square boxes.
>
> Rob
>
>
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll just wait.
>> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>>
>> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and
>> within very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
>>
>> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an
>> altitude encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't
>> have to buy and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the
>> Gray Code that most seem to want. Other than that, I have no
>> extraordinary requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe
>> an occasional 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead
>> of the mountains, because the wife is with me. Power is a
>> non-issue. I live in the crowded east coast, and the annular slot
>> antennae I built is supposed to give me 6dB of gain in the direction
>> that ATC will be (down).
>>
>> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that
>> accepts serial input?
>>
Message 4
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Way off topic but I need help. My very old Dell Latitude D600 power cord
(PA-6 type cord) just gave up the ghost!!!!
Local stores have none.......checks of various net providers have come up
empty. Any ideas where I might get one of theses.
Frank @ sgu RV7A baffling is baffling
_________________________________________________________________
Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
Rob says: so expect used-but-good Mode-C transponders to show up
>> soon on sites like Barnstormers
Yes: and e-bay
John (England)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley@nc.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Rob Turk wrote:
>>
>> Some regions in Europe are demanding Mode-S transponders as early as
>> March 2008, so expect used-but-good Mode-C transponders to show up soon
>> on sites like Barnstormers.
>>
>> If you need Mode-S in your area any time soon then you may want to look
>> at Filser. Their TRT800 transponder has the encoder built-in, so only
>> static pressure is needed. They have versions that fit 2 1/4" round panel
>> cut-outs and versions that are drop-in replacement for the square boxes.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the heads-up. I'll just wait.
>
>>> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>>>
>>> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
>>> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
>>>
>>> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
>>> encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
>>> and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
>>> most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
>>> requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
>>> 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
>>> because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
>>> crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
>>> give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
>>>
>>> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
>>> serial input?
>>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted |
At 11:03 AM 10/26/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>David,
>
>Am of the opinion the use of the Dynon D-180, or any other EFIS with
>internal battery backup, justifies a simplification to Bob's method of
>feeding the Endurance Bus. In your diagram, remove the Note 12 diode,
>remove the Avionics Master Switch and connect the 14AWG wire which fed the
>diode from the Main Bus to the unused contact on the 1-3 E-Bus Alt Feed Switch.
. . . which makes the alternate feed switch a single point
of failure for both feeds to the ebus.
>This results in fewer parts and eliminates the voltage drop across the
>diode along with the heat the diode generates. While Bob specifies a very
>robust unit, the heat sensitive diode is still a weak link compared to the
>other components in the path.
But I've never seen one fail. Just how "heat sensitive"
is it? Can you quantify these assertions against the
components published capabilities and limits?
>Now, come an electrical emergency (fire, trim runaway, A/P failure,
>alternator runaway, etc.), you have one and only one consistent action to
>take.. turn off the battery master. Continue to fly the plane with the
>EFIS (and your GPS as backup). At your leisure: 1) tell the EFIS and GPS
>you want them to continue to operate on their internal battery power 2)
>turn off everything fed by the Endurance Bus 3) switch the Endurance Bus
>Alternate Feed to Battery Direct and 4) turn on each E-Bus load one at a
>time and verify the item doesn't contribute to the problem.
>
>Would also suggest the use of combined circuit breaker-switches instead of
>the acres of breakers and separate switches of most aircraft.
>
>Fewer components, simpler procedures. Bob, what are the negatives to this
>approach?
Breaker-switches are mechanically complex devices,
expensive and require that you build "the bus" right
on the back of a row of switches in addition to
other busses along the backs of breakers that are not
switches.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Breakers/W31_1.jpg
We used about 80,000 of this breaker/switch
in Beech products over the past 40 years or
so. They would not be my first choice for
today's elegant design . . . like helicopters,
waayyyy to many moving parts going in different
directions.
The short path to Nirvana are the fuseblocks.
The busses are already fabricated, they're mounted
out of the way in minutes and do not encroach on
panel space.
I'll remind readers that the architectures
depicted in the z-figures offer specific features
for operation and failure mitigation. When
modifying an architectural feature of the drawings
for the purpose of some customization, be
aware that you may be tossing out some
salient feature.
While in Houston this weekend for a seminar,
I received a direct e-mail with several
attachments from a reader who likes the
book and thought the z-figures were really
helpful. He then offers up his own vision
of how he would like to wire the airplane
hoping for a few hours of my time to do
critical design review.
What he proposes will offer precisely
the functionality he is striving for but
ignores the thought processes that go into
minimum parts count, low cost of ownership,
optimum performance design based on the
histories for failures and their potential
consequences.
It's much more useful application of
your and my time to ask first how some
potentially ignored failure mode or missing
operational feature can be handled with a
modification to a z-figure.
One the all eggs are broken and scrambled,
the recipe is now yours to cook and savor
with all it's new features. In these
situations, it goes to individual taste
at the expense of the science and logic.
I'm not suggesting for a minute that
changes are bad or that the z-figures
are "golden". I'm only saying that
these recipes for success are refined
over years of consideration at the
operations and fabrication level. Proposed
change may well be the next step forward but
these are best accomplished incrementally.
One step at a time and with lots of eyes
and gray-matter pondering the consequences
both intended and unintended.
I hope that none of you feels that you've
waded into the tar pit and that years of
experience would save you from potential
hazards. Know that some of my customers
with decades of experience are doing the
same thing. Seems that everyone with a
voltmeter and a screwdriver in hand believes
that little tweaks to a design are
intellectually satisfying or bureaucratically
prudent while offering up little risk or cost.
'Tis not so.
I'm struggling with a "simple" design
change mandated by what appears to be an
ill-informed, upper level manager that
seriously impacts failure modes, installation
effort/risk and increases costs of ownership
by $thousands$ per ship-set.
As soon as first-articles are delivered and the
consequences of their decisions become
apparent on the iron-bird, I'm going to
suggest that my services might best
be utilized elsewhere.
These experiences reinforce an observation
by one of my heros who accurately noted
that one may know a great deal and still
understand nothing.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Z-19 ECU wiring question |
Ken,
That is all good advice, especially about separating the coil feeds. You are right,
I can fly on 3 cylinders so that would be some measure of safety. I am still
waiting for the mfg to get back to me but I am leaning towards having separate
feeds for all three (ecu/coils/injectors). Yes, I need ALL of them to fly
but their loads vary widely and it makes sense to fuse each on appropriately.
Thanks again,
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142486#142486
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation |
We're using 2 Concord RG24-15 (24v,13.6AH) batteries in a Z14-FADEC system.
Our desire is to charge and maintain the main "A" battery via the ground
power plug.
What issues are there with using two 12v chargers in series?
We already have a B-D 12v charger with the following details:
110 Amp Engine Start - 40 Amp / 20 Amp / 10 Amp / 4 Amp Continuous Charge
Rates - Smart Battery Charger
Model # VEC1093DBD
3 stage, automatic, high-frequency charging technology
Microprocessor control digital diagnostics & fault codes
Spark-resistant reverse hook-up & overcharge protection
Patented vehicle alternator check & engine start feature
Automatic float mode monitoring
See it here:
http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=15580
ERic--
RV-10 N104EP
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 09:47 AM 10/27/2007 -0400, you wrote:
><ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
>Looking for a 24v battery charger; recommendations?
>
>Two tasks: charging & maintaining
>
>Does one charger do both well?
>
>ERic--
>RV-10 N104EP
Is your battery a "real" 24V device or a pair
of 12s in series? 24V hardware is rare compared
to 12V stuff. In fact, I'm not aware of any
24 charger/maintainers but I'm sure they're out
there. A Google search is the place to start.
If you have a pair of 12s, consider a pair of
Battery Tender like:
http://www.batteryweb.com/batterytender-detail.cfm?Model=021-0123
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr.jpg
I've found these "in the wild" for a little
as $29 plus shipping. They recharge like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge.pdf
You'll find a LOT of 24v battery service products
but you'll not too that their prices are not
nearly as attractive as the "wall wart" style
tenders.
Know too that Schumacher products sold at Wall
Mart are now "smart chargers". See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Schumacher_WM-1562.jpg
and recharge like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_6.jpg
Their smallest models are on the order of $20
each and you don't need to pay shipping
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 9
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At 06:28 AM 10/29/2007 -0700, you wrote:
><fstringham@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Way off topic but I need help. My very old Dell Latitude D600 power cord
>(PA-6 type cord) just gave up the ghost!!!!
>Local stores have none.......checks of various net providers have come up
>empty. Any ideas where I might get one of theses.
Contact one or more of these guys:
http://stores.ebay.com/CSR-Technologies
http://stores.ebay.com/eTechTronix
http://stores.ebay.com/CentricPC-Store
Seems a bunch of D600's have flooded onto the
good-used/refurbished market. I've purchase two
of them recently myself. These guys are certain
to have residuals from machines broken beyond
practical repair.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 24v Battery Charger Recommendation |
At 09:04 AM 10/29/2007 -0500, you wrote:
><ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
>We're using 2 Concord RG24-15 (24v,13.6AH) batteries in a Z14-FADEC system.
>
>Our desire is to charge and maintain the main "A" battery via the ground
>power plug.
>
>What issues are there with using two 12v chargers in series?
Not practical. A 'smart' charger needs to see the
battery that it's chartered to manage. When you add
another charger in series, all bets for performance
are off.
I can sketch you the circuit for a 24v "tender"
if you wanted to build one.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Ernest: you could use a Garming GTX 327 transponder, but you can also use the Dynon
Serial to Gray Code converter for $80 and drive any transponder with it that
you can get. A Terra transponder, if you can find one, might be an expensive
way to go driven by the converter.
Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A someday
Time: 08:40:04 PM PST US
From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
serial input?
<html><body>
<P>Ernest: you could use a Garming GTX 327 transponder, but you can also use the
Dynon Serial to Gray Code converter for $80 and drive any transponder with it
that you can get. A Terra transponder, if you can find one, might be an
expensive way to go driven by the converter.</P>
<P>Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A someday</P>
<P><BR>Time: 08:40:04 PM PST US<BR>From: Ernest Christley <<A onclick="return doCompose(this);" href="http://mailcenter.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/472633F90009BD94000047EF2209224627089B0E9D030A?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=echristley%40nc%2Err%2Ecom&sid=c0">echristley@nc.rr.com</A>><BR>Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation<BR><BR><BR>Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within <BR>very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.<BR><BR>I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude <BR>encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy <BR>and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that <BR>most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary <BR>requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional <BR>7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains, <BR>because the wife is with me. Power
is a n
on-issue. I live in the <BR>crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae
I built is supposed to <BR>give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC
will be (down).<BR><BR>What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder
that accepts <BR>serial input?<BR></P>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Radio Static Help |
Hi,
I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to AeroElectric.
I've searched the list and haven't found anything that helped to solve my
problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can offer:
I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio static
on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is attached to a Garmin
GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e. not obviously uniform
like I would expect from an ignition system), however, it is somehow associated
with engine throttle setting. The static starts around 2000 RPM and gets
progressively worse as throttle increases. On takeoff, it is so bad you can
not comprehend any received transmissions. During cruise it appears to be somehow
associated with manifold pressure (i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes
listening to ATC difficult to impossible. I also think it may be affecting
my radio transmissions as well, because when I have a hard time comprehending
ATC, they also have a hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only
affecting the Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have
a belly mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip VOR antenna. My handheld
ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when used inside the cockpit. Also, I
have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition.
I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem, but I
have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse). Any suggestions
for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below is a list of some
things I have tried with no luck.
General
-Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not both at the
same time)
--So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics
Antenna/Coaxial cable
-Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax.
-Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400 (tried
various routings to antennas)
-Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static)
--So it doesn't appear to be antenna related
Power/ground
-Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends
-Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need a filter
-Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential interference
from other wires
-Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery
-Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator
-Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft, disconnected
power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna directly to unit
(SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception still has static
-Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray
-Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground.
-Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor wires
I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions.
Thanks.
-Jim
N312JE
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588
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| Subject: | 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications |
Would it be practical to re-engineer a 12v smart charger to 24v?
ERic--
Message 14
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| Subject: | 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications |
Have a look at these:
http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/24-volt/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Parlow
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 12v to 24v Battery Charger Modifications
<ericparlow@hotmail.com>
Would it be practical to re-engineer a 12v smart charger to 24v?
ERic--
Message 15
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| Subject: | transponder recommendation |
The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for overall
value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Christley
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
<echristley@nc.rr.com>
Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
serial input?
Message 16
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| Subject: | 24v Battery Charger |
Here's where the 24v aircraft battery charger road leads:
http://www.thebatteryminder.com/24vaircraftbatteryminder-p-76.html
Message 17
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| Subject: | Radio Static Help |
Has it always been there or did it come about after a few hours running?
Sometimes I get ignition noise...Then I change out the auto plugs and it
goes away.
If you have auto plugs on your EI it might be worth a try for a $1.20 a
piece...then turn off your mag in flight.
frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ScooterF15
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Static Help
Hi,
I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to
AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that
helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can
offer:
I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio
static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is
attached to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds
random (i.e. not obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition
system), however, it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting.
The static starts around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as
throttle increases. On takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any
received transmissions. During cruise it appears to be somehow
associated with manifold pressure (i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It
makes listening to ATC difficult to impossible. I also think it may be
affecting my radio transmissions as well, because when I have a hard
time comprehending ATC, they also have a hard time understanding me.
This static appears to be only affecting the Comm audio, there is no
static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly mounted bent whip VHF
antenna and a wingtip!
VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when
used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and
one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition.
I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem,
but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse).
Any suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below
is a list of some things I have tried with no luck.
General
-Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not
both at the same time)
--So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics
Antenna/Coaxial cable
-Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax.
-Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400
(tried various routings to antennas) -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR
antenna (great reception, still static)
--So it doesn't appear to be antenna related
Power/ground
-Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends
-Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need
a filter -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce
potential interference from other wires -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads
directly to battery -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and
EFIS indicator -Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor
of aircraft, disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM
handheld antenna directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from
aircraft)-reception still has static -Ran ground wire from battery to
SL-30 tray -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft
ground.
-Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor
wires
I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any
suggestions.
Thanks.
-Jim
N312JE
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
Based on the symptoms you have described, it sounds kind of like acoustic
noise getting into the intercom. Have you unplugged all of the headset
mics (the small plug) from the system while in flight?
Regards,
Matt-
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been on the RV-10 list for a few years, but I've never posted to
AeroElectric. I've searched the list and haven't found anything that
helped to solve my problem. I'd appreciate any suggestions that you can
offer:
>
> I've spent the last few weeks trying to track down a problem with radio
static on my Garmin SL-30 Nav/Comm in my Vans RV-10. The SL-30 is
attached
> to a Garmin GMA-340 Audio panel. The static itself sounds random (i.e.
not
> obviously uniform like I would expect from an ignition system), however,
it is somehow associated with engine throttle setting. The static starts
around 2000 RPM and gets progressively worse as throttle increases. On
takeoff, it is so bad you can not comprehend any received transmissions.
During cruise it appears to be somehow associated with manifold pressure
(i.e. throttle setting, not RPM). It makes listening to ATC difficult to
impossible. I also think it may be affecting my radio transmissions as
well, because when I have a hard time comprehending ATC, they also have
a
> hard time understanding me. This static appears to be only affecting the
Comm audio, there is no static on NAV audio reception. I have a belly
mounted bent whip VHF antenna and a wingtip!
> VOR antenna. My handheld ICOM VHF radio does not have any static when
> used inside the cockpit. Also, I have a Lycoming IO-540 with one mag and
one LightSpeed Plasma II+ ignition.
>
> I have searched various lists for ideas and tried to solve this problem,
but I have had no success in changing it at all (for better or worse).
Any
> suggestions for what to try or where to look will be welcome. Below is
a
> list of some things I have tried with no luck.
>
>
> General
> -Shut off all avionics (except SL-30) and both ignition systems (not
both
> at the same time)
> --So it doesn't appear to be interference from other electronics
>
> Antenna/Coaxial cable
> -Added ferrite signal filters at various locations along comm coax.
-Connected SL-30 to a different comm antenna using a piece of RG-400
(tried
> various routings to antennas)
> -Connected SL-30 Comm to VOR antenna (great reception, still static)
> --So it doesn't appear to be antenna related
>
> Power/ground
> -Ensured engine grounding cables have good contacts on both ends
-Apparently new Slick Magnetos have internal suppression and do not need
a
> filter
> -Separated SL-30 power/ground leads from bundle to reduce potential
interference from other wires
> -Ran SL-30 +12V and ground leads directly to battery
> -Disconnected serial connection between my SL-30 and EFIS indicator
-Connected SL-30 to separate 12V battery sitting on floor of aircraft,
disconnected power/ground to GMA-340. Attached ICOM handheld antenna
directly to unit (SL-30 completely isolated from aircraft)-reception
still
> has static
> -Ran ground wire from battery to SL-30 tray
> -Checked to ensure headseat jacks were isolated from aircraft ground.
-Checked the shield connections for tachometer and fuel flow sensor
wires
>
>
> I can't think of anything else to try. Again, I'd be happy to hear any
suggestions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Jim
> N312JE
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142588#142588
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
Frank,
I've only been flying for a year. It seems like the problem has grown worse
in the last 6 months. I just did an annual an changed out all my plugs (auto
on top / aviation on bottom).
Thanks.
Jim
In a message dated 10/29/2007 6:10:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
frank.hinde@hp.com writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Has it always been there or did it come about after a few hours running?
Sometimes I get ignition noise...Then I change out the auto plugs and it
goes away.
If you have auto plugs on your EI it might be worth a try for a $1.20 a
piece...then turn off your mag in flight.
frank
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
Yes, the intercom is completely clear when in flight with and without the
other 3 headsets plugged in. For most of the testing I turned my GMA-340 off so
the pilot's headset is wired directly to the SL-30 and the intercom is not
operating - this does not effect the static.
Thanks.
-Jim
In a message dated 10/29/2007 6:12:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mprather@spro.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Based on the symptoms you have described, it sounds kind of like acoustic
noise getting into the intercom. Have you unplugged all of the headset
mics (the small plug) from the system while in flight?
Regards,
Matt-
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
_http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew_ (http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew)
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
Michel Creek wrote:
>
> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for overall
> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
>
>
Could you define what "overall value" means to you?
When I look at it, I see lots of expensive features that complicate the
interface and will never be used beyond the "gee whiz" factor. All of
these $3000 to $6000 radios offering 'features'. I just need something
to transmit a number when interrogated. The only 'feature' I'd like is
a decent price (sub $1000) and for it to accept serial input so that I
don't have to have another piece of equipment in the plane. I mean,
'cmon. It's a simple radio. Doesn't even need a tuner. Its operation
is so heavily prescribed, it can't help but be mundane and unglamorous.
Gulf Coast Avionics is offering some simple looking Narco units for
around $1300, but they all seem to want Gray Code. I'm looking for
something like my Icom-A200. Low price. Simple interface.
Uncomplicated. EASY!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
> Christley
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
>
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
>
> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
> encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
> and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
> most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
> requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
> 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
> because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
> crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
> give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
>
> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
> serial input?
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | transponder recommendation |
The short answer is the cost of ownership (plus the inconvenience factor for
repairs, etc) over the expected life of the purchase.
For example the GTX 320A can be fed from your Dynon (using the $80 converter
previously mentioned in another post). When you consider the 320 does not
use a cavity tube, another maintenance headache is eliminated. Cavity tubes
can be expensive to replace and generate a lot of heat. I looked at
purchasing several used KT76A transponders and they were going to run about
$900+ plus shipping. There was no telling how long any of these would run
before the cavity tube needed replacing. I estimated the cavity tube would
cost overall about $300 to replace and I would have to do that at least once
in the next five years (probably much sooner), plus I would be getting a
piece of equipment with unknown history and potentially other problems (add
more $$$'s). A new GTX 320A can be had for about $1,300 so why pay
basically the same price for a used piece of electronics with questionable
history and reliability concerns. Buy good quality new equipment hook it up
and go fly. You will have minimum down time and maintenance issues going
forward and that adds value IMOH (not to mention a warranty). The 320A is a
very basic transponder without many bells and whistles. See
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=198&pID=167
Check pricing at Stark Avionics: http://www.starkavionics.com/products.htm
The next step up the line which eliminates the Dynon converter is the Garmin
GTX 327 for about $1,450 - it does have some bells and whistles. This is
also a good value IMOH when compared to the typical used and/or new market
(with cavity tubes).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Christley
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
<echristley@nc.rr.com>
Michel Creek wrote:
>><mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
>>
>> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for
overall
>> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
>>
>>
>Could you define what "overall value" means to you?
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted |
Much of what Bob said is valid. But in this case must gently
disagree because:
Me: << remove the Note 12 diode, remove the Avionics Master Switch >>
Bob: << which makes the alternate feed switch a single point
of failure for both feeds to the ebus. >>
Disagree this is a fatal flaw. 1) The failure rate of a robust
switch, occasionally switching zero current (in my scenario), is
vanishingly small. 2) Even if the switch fails, the Dynon and
GPS continue to run, giving me time to land. 3) If I ever intend
to be in the clouds for more than "oops, do a 180 back to not in
the clouds" then I have a 2nd Nav/Com and Xpndr on the main bus.
This gives me the ability to stay upright, navigate and,
perhaps with ATC help, land in hard IFR.
Me: << eliminates the voltage drop across the diode along with
the heat the diode generates. .. robust unit, the heat sensitive
diode is still a weak link compared to the other components >>
Bob: << But I've never seen one fail. Just how "heat sensitive"
is it? Can you quantify these assertions >>
I've managed to fry many a semiconductor device in my career.
The crossover diode is a semiconductor device and thus "heat
sensitive" compared to wires, connectors, even switches, etc.
This is what I said. Robust but weak compared to other
components. Don't have numbers but have no doubt if I short out
the E-bus, the diode will melt. Do admit my aversion to the
voltage drop and power loss of the diode is a personal prejudice.
Me: << combined circuit breaker-switches instead of the acres of
breakers and separate switches >>
Bob: << Breaker-switches are mechanically complex devices,
expensive and require that you build "the bus" right
on the back of a row of switches in addition to
other busses along the backs of breakers that are not
switches. >>
The AIRPAX R11 series of circuit breaker/switches I mentioned in
my 9/29/07 post have many advantages over separate circuit
breakers and switches. They are hydraulic-magnetically tripped.
This gives a more stable trip point than the thermal types we
often use. Not only are the same components (without the trip
coil) sold as a switch, they are also rated for use in life
critical medical equipment. They are mechanically simpler than
the breaker in W31_1.jpg. At $11.05 from OnlineComponents.com
they are certainly less expensive than a separate switch and
circuit breaker. Don't see how it is more onerous to build a bus
behind the row of CB/Switches than it is to build a several row
bus behind the (usually far away) CB panel and run a dozen or
more wires over to the switches. In fact, my IFR capable
Sportman has so few pure circuit breakers (5) they all fit in the
left hand subpanel, along with the master switch, ignition sw,
E-bus crossover sw, etc. This puts all my bus wiring in one
local area, the same situation as a CB panel.
My aversion to fuse blocks is an even stronger prejudice. As a
control freak, I can envision failure modes (pitch trim or fuel
transfer overload for example) where I want to deliberately
override, if only for a short while, the condition causing the
trip. This is impossible with remote access fuse blocks.
Hope it is clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with
Bob's diagrams. Was trying to tell David my reasoning for
preferring an alternate approach given an internal battery backup
EFIS and GPS.
Tom Kuffel
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: transponder recommendation |
The Garmin GTX-320(A - now) is a simple radio - no extra features - looks
much like the early analog King and Narco transponders. The 327 has the
gee whiz features.
I recently purchased a Narco AT165 to replace my aging/ailing AT50A. So
far, the performance seems very good. I do kind the individual knobs like
the earlier designs had.
My Varieze has a Microair T2000 which so far has been trouble free..
Doesn't address the interface coding.
Matt-
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Michel Creek wrote:
>> <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
>>
>> The Garmin GTX 320 while not the cheapest would be hard to beat for
>> overall
>> value. It is solid state so there are no cavity tubes to replace.
>>
>>
>
> Could you define what "overall value" means to you?
>
> When I look at it, I see lots of expensive features that complicate the
> interface and will never be used beyond the "gee whiz" factor. All of
> these $3000 to $6000 radios offering 'features'. I just need something
> to transmit a number when interrogated. The only 'feature' I'd like is
> a decent price (sub $1000) and for it to accept serial input so that I
> don't have to have another piece of equipment in the plane. I mean,
> 'cmon. It's a simple radio. Doesn't even need a tuner. Its operation
> is so heavily prescribed, it can't help but be mundane and unglamorous.
>
> Gulf Coast Avionics is offering some simple looking Narco units for
> around $1300, but they all seem to want Gray Code. I'm looking for
> something like my Icom-A200. Low price. Simple interface.
> Uncomplicated. EASY!
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Ernest
>> Christley
>> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:41 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: transponder recommendation
>>
>> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>>
>> Transponders seem to be like hammers. Everybody needs one, and within
>> very wide limits it's hard to tell one from another.
>>
>> I'm going with the Dynon EFIS, and it has serial output for an altitude
>> encoder. If I buy one that accepts serial input, I won't have to buy
>> and maintain another piece of equipment to produce the Gray Code that
>> most seem to want. Other than that, I have no extraordinary
>> requirements. It'll squawk 1200 nearly always. Maybe an occasional
>> 7500, if I have to point the nose at the beach instead of the mountains,
>> because the wife is with me. Power is a non-issue. I live in the
>> crowded east coast, and the annular slot antennae I built is supposed to
>> give me 6dB of gain in the direction that ATC will be (down).
>>
>> What is a good choice for a cheap, minimalist transponder that accepts
>> serial input?
>>
>>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted |
At 06:03 PM 10/29/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Much of what Bob said is valid. But in this case must gently disagree
>because:
>
>Me: << remove the Note 12 diode, remove the Avionics Master Switch >>
>
>Bob: << which makes the alternate feed switch a single point
> of failure for both feeds to the ebus. >>
<snip>
>Hope it is clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with Bob's
>diagrams. Was trying to tell David my reasoning for preferring an
>alternate approach given an internal battery backup EFIS and GPS.
>
>Tom Kuffel
Nobody here should be upset if you act upon
your own perceptions in the manner you see
fit. I certainly won't. I was asked and I
answered. There are many chefs with their
own recipes for success . . . some of whom
gather a clientele, others who may not.
I was only suggesting that alternatives
should be gauged against design goals that
strive for the desired functionality with
the minimum of $time$ in design, procurement,
fabrication, failure tolerance and cost of
ownership. Without a doubt, there are folks
who offer exceedingly robust products with
names like Airpax, TI, Cutler-Hammer, etc.
But even the mighty Potter-Brumfield came
very close to causing an expensive,
fleet-wide AD for a simple design deficiency
in the switch-breaker I cited.
My goal is to craft architectures that require
no special consideration for robustnes of
components . . . I.e, it shouldn't matter
if one buys switches at the hardware store.
We've had these discussions on different
topics . . . there'a a following of factory
fresh Nipon-Denso alternators who have
suggested it is not necessary to have absolute
control -OR- O.V. protection. Faith in these
products just might be justified. I
have no personal knowledge or experience
to reinforce those notions but I have strong
anecdotal information that suggests the faith
is unfounded. Nor do I want to recommend
that all my readers go out and buy factory
fresh, ND, Airpax, TI, or any other brand.
My design goals strive to craft a system
that is failure-tolerant for components
that may not have the robustness of those
upper-crust devices that some folks choose
to champion and recommend.
I fully understand the creative juices
that flow when one launches into so grand
a dream as crafting one's own airplane.
They're called "experimental" and they
can and should be viewed in this light.
This isn't about people my friend, it's
about ideas. It has been suggested that
diodes are somehow fragile and switches
are perhaps sufficiently robust to
offset a diode's shortcomings.
I'd be pleased to know the simple
ideas that support these assertions.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Drawing Critisism Wanted |
Bob,
<< alternate approach given an internal battery backup EFIS and
GPS. >>
<< alternatives
should be gauged against design goals that
strive for the desired functionality with
the minimum of $time$ in design, procurement,
fabrication, failure tolerance and cost of
ownership. >>
And fewer components don't address these goals?
<< My goal is to craft architectures that require
no special consideration for robustnes of
components >>
And the crossover diode doesn't have to be robust compared to
regular diodes?
<< It has been suggested that
diodes are somehow fragile and switches
are perhaps sufficiently robust to
offset a diode's shortcomings.
I'd be pleased to know the simple
ideas that support these assertions. >>
No, I am suggesting no diode at all is more robust than any diode
and its attendant wiring. Would agree the single point failure
of the suggested change would be unacceptable if it weren't for
the internal batteries on the EFIS and GPS. But given the
premise, don't see how the change violates the goals of less
cost, simpler design, simpler installation, less maintenance and
reasonable fault tolerance (if you do have to shut down the main
bus your exposure to single point failure is the same with either
setup, perhaps less since the rare but additional possibility of
a shorted diode doesn't exist when it's omitted).
Tom Kuffel
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Static Help |
Have you considered the alternator regulator starting to regulate at 2000 rpm upwards,
and the more pronounced effect this could be having with an older battery,
letting transient noise into the DC bus?
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142691#142691
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