Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:59 AM - Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram (txpilot)
2. 12:20 PM - Battery Bus Feed (Richard Talbot)
3. 12:20 PM - TRIM Disconnect Switch ()
4. 01:47 PM - Re: LR-3 Controller (dksington)
5. 02:57 PM - Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (Dale Ensing)
6. 03:44 PM - Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (Richard Dudley)
7. 04:02 PM - Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (Dave Saylor)
8. 04:03 PM - 496 Audio--easy fix (Dave Saylor)
9. 04:36 PM - Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (Kevin Horton)
10. 05:13 PM - Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (Matt Prather)
11. 05:52 PM - Re: 496 Audio--easy fix (N81JG@aol.com)
12. 06:07 PM - Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (Robert McCallum)
13. 07:24 PM - Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast... (Don Hall)
14. 07:31 PM - Re: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast... (Neal George)
15. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: LR-3 Controller (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 07:41 PM - Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (rtitsworth)
17. 07:41 PM - Re: Battery Bus Feed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 07:43 PM - Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
> If you use some other ov protection
> scheme, you could leave the breaker out and just
> run the alternator field from a standard fuse
> on the block. One choice would be using the AEC9011
> generator/alternator OV relay feature. This
> eliminates the need for a breaker.
Thanks, Bob. I'll just stick with the crowbar OV protection in the Z-16 diagram.
I just ordered everything I need from B&C. Now all I need is a good fire
extinguisher. [Laughing]
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144195#144195
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| Subject: | Battery Bus Feed |
Hi Everyone,
One more question in relation to my Battery Bus. I am following Z-13 and
adapting to my aircraft in a few places. One of these is in relation to the
Battery Bus feed. I note that the drawing specifies a short run (6 inches
or less) of 14 AWG wire from the positive side of the battery to the fuse
block. My issue is that I am going to exceed the recommended wiring
distance to around 3-4 feet and would feel more comfortable with some
protection for the wire. As I see it my choices are:
- Install an inline fuse holder in the engine compartment, near the
battery.
- Install a fusible Link.
- Relocate the fuse block (I don't want to do this)
I suspect the fusible link is a better option but I wanted to get some
advice from other members of the list.
If I use a fusible link how do I size it? Should it be 2AWG smaller than
the wire?
Thanks/Regards
Richard
Message 3
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| Subject: | TRIM Disconnect Switch |
G'day Everyone,
First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim
systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and
other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost IMO.
However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in.
I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without
any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be
manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may be
possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it
manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a
requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of
aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want
the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry
if it is elsewhere.
In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect" switch
to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push buttons
for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a spare
momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it
to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker
and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or
smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle
from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply to
both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in this
area?
Thanks/Regards
Richard
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
I have started wiring my aircraft and have wired a LR3-C controller as per instructions
(whilst following Z-11). I have realised, though, that I have an internally
regulated alternator (55A unit made by Air-Tec, supplied by Mattituck
with my TMX IO-360). Can I 'double-up' on the regulator whilst maintaining the
OV protection & LV indication or do I need to change something?
Many thanks for the help in advance, and for the Aerolectric Connection - a truly
excellent publication.
Derek Sington.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144219#144219
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Richard,
I have the miniature toggle switch for trim disconnect on my stick grip.
Works fine other than occasionally hitting the switch unintentionally
and turning off power to servo. Have Ray Allen trim servos on two
homebuilt airplanes with no run away problems.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: richard@talbots.net.au
To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
G'day Everyone,
First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual
trim systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick
grips and other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and
cost IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish
putting them in.
I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and
cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is
that it may be possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim
system before it manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this
is virtually a requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count
of the number of aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim
disabled. I want the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be
difficult to find in a hurry if it is elsewhere.
In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect"
switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary
push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect
and a spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim
Disconnect.
The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct
breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around
24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature
toggle from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power
supply to both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended
in this area?
Thanks/Regards
Richard
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Hi Richard,
I resonate with your comments about the value of electric trim and
switches on the stick grip. I had a couple of Cherokee 235s a couple of
decades ago, one with a manual elevator trim by overhead crank, the
other with electric elevator trim on the yoke. Both had manual flaps.
When I flew the second one with the electric elevator trim, though it
worked perfectly well, I found myself using the overhead manual crank
for elevator trim. I never found the electric trim useful. The manual
flaps were never a problem. When I built my RV-6A, I decided that I
would go with manual elevator trim, manual aileron trim and manual
flaps. Part of the rationale was the experience with the Cherokees and
the rest was independence from the electrical system. At the time, I did
not even think of runaway trim. Though I believe that runaway trim is a
fairly remote failure in a simple system, I would now make it a
consideration. The chance of detecting it in time to hit another switch
before it went full throw seems poor. The real benefit of a trim access
on the grip versus reaching for a manual trim knob doesn't strike me as
worth the complications of multiple speed trim and concern about runaway
and its solutions. I find my manual trim to allow delicate adjustment at
all airspeeds. Perhaps, those who spend a lot of time at formation
flying might find convenience with electric trim. However, in Navy
flight training in SNJs in the 50s, we did a lot of formation flying
with manual elevator and rudder trim without any related problems.
I have a similar rationale for my manual flaps. They are not
electrically dependent and are only used for landing and occasionally
for takeoffs.
My only switch on the stick grip is my push-to-talk. I consider that to
be essential.
I have read lots of e-mails on this list by folks who want to not only
have push-to-talk and trim on the grip, but starter button and ident.
That is a lot of stuff to wire, for parts count and reliability concerns.
Best regards,
Richard Dudley
richard@talbots.net.au wrote:
> G'day Everyone,
>
>
>
> First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual
> trim systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick
> grips and other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and
> cost IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish
> putting them in.
>
>
>
> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away
> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My
> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and
> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full
> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified
> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown
> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect on
> the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it is
> elsewhere.
>
>
>
> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect"
> switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary
> push buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP
> disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for
> the Trim Disconnect.
>
>
>
> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the
> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small
> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
>
>
> My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature
> toggle from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the
> power supply to both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
>
>
> Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended
> in this area?
>
>
> Thanks/Regards
>
> Richard
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | TRIM Disconnect Switch |
I usually recommend a master trim switch. On my plane I used a toggle CB
between the flap switch and autopilot master.
Another approach is to use a momentary pushbutton in the ground from the
trim switch. Then it takes two fingers to activate trim, and runaway trim
is pretty much eliminated since both switches would have to fail
simultaneously.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Ensing
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
Richard,
I have the miniature toggle switch for trim disconnect on my stick grip.
Works fine other than occasionally hitting the switch unintentionally and
turning off power to servo. Have Ray Allen trim servos on two homebuilt
airplanes with no run away problems.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: richard@talbots.net.au
Server
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:18 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
G'day Everyone,
First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim
systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and
other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost IMO.
However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in.
I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without
any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be
manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may be
possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it
manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a
requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of
aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want
the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry
if it is elsewhere.
In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim disconnect" switch
to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push buttons
for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a spare
momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it
to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker
and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or
smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle
from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply to
both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in this
area?
Thanks/Regards
Richard
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | 496 Audio--easy fix |
We have the audio working as desired from the 496. It turned out to be a
very simple solution.
To recount:
It was my intention to have terrain warnings from a Garmin 496 wired to the
unswitched audio input of a Garmin GMA340 audio panel.
Garmin sells a "power/data cable" that provides wiring for audio output
along with serial data and 12VDC to power the GPS. The audio wires are
labeled "voice+" and "voice-". Garmin also sells a similar cable that
terminates in a speaker housed adjacent to a 12V plug for using in the car.
I took the speaker housing apart and confirmed that the voice+/- wires
connected to the speaker.
When we ran the voice wires into the audio panel, we got nothing. We tried
several approaches, including running the audio into DME (nothing), ADF
(nothing), though an audio transformer, though a potentiometer and through
various simple resistors (zip, zero, nada). Just dead air from the 496.
Finally, Jacek Kesy, who works at AirCrafters, discovered that when the
"voice-" wire from the GPS was disconnected from the audio panel, everything
worked perfectly. Audio must be grounding somewhere else, and the wire that
certainly seems like audio ground is actually "audio disable". Once the
voice- wire is grounded, you have to turn the 496 off and back on to get any
audio.
Here is how the final scenario is wired:
1/8" audio jack is wired to Music 1 on the audio panel. It outputs warnings
and XM audio. Music 1 is muted by intercom activity or incoming
transmissions.
As an aside, I also have a 1/8" audio jack wired through a toggle so I can
select either XM or some other source for Music 1. But that has no bearing
on the 496 audio problem.
>From the 496 power/data cable, the "voice+" wire ties to a 220 ohm resistor,
then to the unswitched audio input at the audio panel. The only other
unswitched audio input is from the EFIS. It also goes through a 220 ohm
resistor. Perhaps someone else can tell us what exactly the 220 ohm
resistors do--my understanding is that they balance the two audio signals.
I don't know what would happen without them.
So now, even though the warnings coming from Music 1 are at time muted, I
always get the EFIS warnings and the terrain warnings, as long as the audio
panel is on.
There are a bunch of setup parameters for the 496 as well on the Sound page
of the main menu. Those are all pretty intuitive and seem to mostly effect
the audio jack, not the output to the power/data cable.
So that's it. Problem solved basically by trial and error, but it's working
the way I want it to now.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM, <richard@talbots.net.au> <richard@talbots.net.au
> wrote:
> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away
> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My
> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and
> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full
> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified
> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown
> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect
> on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it
> is elsewhere.
>
> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim
> disconnect switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the
> four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT,
> another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose
> to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
>
> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the
> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small
> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side
console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim
power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed.
If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect
switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side
console, then release the momentary switch on the stick.
I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the
trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were too
high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Does anyone use a visual or audible indicator for when the trim motor is
running? A steady tone when the motor running wouldn't be too annoying, I
think, and might make it easy to identify a problem. You could use a hall
effect sensor to drive the indicator. I know it's counter to the goal of
making systems simpler, but might be worth it for installations where a
mechanical backup is impractical..
Matt-
> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM, <richard@talbots.net.au> <richard@talbots.net.au
> > wrote:
>
>> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
>> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away
>> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My
>> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and
>> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full
>> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified
>> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown
>> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect
>> on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it
>> is elsewhere.
>>
>> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim
>> disconnect switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the
>> four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT,
>> another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose
>> to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
>>
>> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
>> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the
>> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small
>> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
>
> My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side
> console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim
> power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed.
> If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect
> switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side
> console, then release the momentary switch on the stick.
>
> I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the
> trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were too
> high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab.
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 496 Audio--easy fix |
HI Dave,
I just got my RV7A panel all together and the XM antenna working. When I
turned on the XM, radio and intercom ( I don't have an audio panel since I have
only an SL30) I had the XM come on at high volume. I then noted that there was
no volume control for the XM other than the intercom or headset controls.
The GPS warning came through clear. I guess I will have to place a
potentiometer in the GPS 1/8" output line to control the XM volume. Does anyone
know how
and where I get the right pot to do the volume control? I decided when I
wired the Flightcom intercom and set the dip switches I didn't want the music
to
mute each time the radio or intercom squelch was broken so I will have to
keep the music volume toned down so I will not miss any reception or warning.
Oh, I guess the warnings will be toned down with the music. I'll have to see
how that works. Mainly I want to be able to control XM music volume independent
of the radio.
John Greaves
RV7A nearing completion
VariEze N81JG nearing replacement of overhauled engine
Redding, CA
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Trim runaway should hopefully be of minor concern for several reasons.
1; The likelihood of it happening is very low. (probably not worth
worrying about)
2; Full trim travel in the types of aircraft we are building is
generally liveable. i.e. although it may increase the stick forces
somewhat the aircraft is still controllable (if it isn't then the trim
effectiveness should perhaps be reduced until it is)
3; If you are really paranoid about the possibility, then it is a simple
matter to install a DPDT centre off toggle switch in the wiring to the
motor (after all the relays, control devices etc) so that in the event
the trim does run away, the relays weld etc, you simply reverse this
switch to run the trim back to neutral then select the centre off
position to totally disconnect and isolate the motor. (this switch, if
it becomes your choice, should be spring return to off from the reverse
position to make it impossible to leave in the reverse position)
4; Manual trim eliminates even the remotest possibility if you're not
otherwise comfortable.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: TRIM Disconnect Switch
<mprather@spro.net>
>
> Does anyone use a visual or audible indicator for when the trim motor
is
> running? A steady tone when the motor running wouldn't be too
annoying, I
> think, and might make it easy to identify a problem. You could use a
hall
> effect sensor to drive the indicator. I know it's counter to the goal
of
> making systems simpler, but might be worth it for installations where
a
> mechanical backup is impractical..
>
>
> Matt-
>
>
> > <khorton01@rogers.com>
> >
> > On 6-Nov-07, at 3:18 PM, <richard@talbots.net.au>
<richard@talbots.net.au
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft
> >> without any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running
away
> >> and cannot be manually returned to an in trim position. My
> >> expectation is that it may be possible to catch it in the act and
> >> disable the trim system before it manages to get itself to full
> >> travel. I believe this is virtually a requirement in the certified
> >> world, and I have lost count of the number of aircraft I have flown
> >> over the years with electric trim disabled. I want the disconnect
> >> on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a hurry if it
> >> is elsewhere.
> >>
> >> In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a "trim
> >> disconnect" switch to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the
> >> four momentary push buttons for trim, another button for PTT,
> >> another for AP disconnect and a spare momentary switch. I propose
> >> to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
> >>
> >> The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to
> >> use it to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for
the
> >> cct breaker and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small
> >> (around 24 AWG or smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
> >
> > My RV-8 electric trim is wired through a master switch on the side
> > console, and a momentary disconnect switch on the stick. The trim
> > power is removed while the momentary switch on the stick is pressed.
> > If I had a trim runaway, I would press and hold the trim disconnect
> > switch on the stick, then turn off the master switch on the side
> > console, then release the momentary switch on the stick.
> >
> > I also plan to do flight testing to check the stick forces with the
> > trim at full travel in either direction. If the stick forces were
too
> > high, I would reduce the travel of the trim tab.
> >
> > --
> > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> > Ottawa, Canada
> > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric seminar |
in the Southeast...
I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with
me.
Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008.
Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested,
I'll contact Bob and secure a facility.
Thanks,
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
Message 14
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| Subject: | Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric |
seminar in the Southeast...
I'm in...
Neal E. George
2023 Everglades Drive
Navarre, FL 32566
Home - 850-515-0640
Cell - 850-218-4838
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric
seminar in the Southeast...
I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with
me.
Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008.
Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested,
I'll contact Bob and secure a facility.
Thanks,
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: LR-3 Controller |
At 01:45 PM 11/6/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I have started wiring my aircraft and have wired a LR3-C controller as per
>instructions (whilst following Z-11). I have realised, though, that I
>have an internally regulated alternator (55A unit made by Air-Tec,
>supplied by Mattituck with my TMX IO-360). Can I 'double-up' on the
>regulator whilst maintaining the OV protection & LV indication or do I
>need to change something?
No, the LR3 is not compatible with the internally
regulated alternator. You can . . .
(1) have the alternator modified to bring out the
field lead for external regulation by means of the
LR3C or . . .
(2) wire per Z-24 as explained in . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Adapting_IR_Alternators_to_Aircraft.pdf
in anticipation of changing out for the AEC9004
Alternator Controller for IR alternators.
>Many thanks for the help in advance, and for the Aerolectric Connection -
>a truly excellent publication.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm pleased
that you find it a good return on investment.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | TRIM Disconnect Switch |
Richard,
If you're referring to the typical Ray Allen (RAC) electric trim, you'll
note that the only time there is power to the trim servo is when your wiring
is commanding a trim movement. So, first off, it is virtually impossible
for the servo itself to run-away. Rather, a "run-away" has to be caused by
the up-stream wiring. Keep this in mind when designing and constructing
your trim circuits. Also therefore, there are several potential approaches
to mitigate potential run-away scenarios.
1. Limit the overall trim such that the plane is still manually
controllable at full time.
2. Think about having two independent trim feeds/buttons (with isolated
disconnects). One on each stick, or 1 stick and 1 panel, etc. That way, if
one feed fails and causes a runaway, you can disconnect it and then take
corrective action with the other.
3. Some folks have even put a momentary power feed line reversal
circuit (button) in the system. Push it and whatever is causing the trim to
run one way will automatically cause it to run back the other way. Let go
(and disconnect) when it's in the middle (neutral).
4. etc
The RAC system's safety is in it's inherent simplicity.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
richard@talbots.net.au
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:19 PM
G'day Everyone,
..I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without
any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be
manually returned to an in trim position..
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Bus Feed |
At 07:18 AM 11/7/2007 +1100, you wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>
>One more question in relation to my Battery Bus. I am following Z-13 and
>adapting to my aircraft in a few places. One of these is in relation to
>the Battery Bus feed. I note that the drawing specifies a short run (6
>inches or less) of 14 AWG wire from the positive side of the battery to
>the fuse block. My issue is that I am going to exceed the recommended
>wiring distance to around 3-4 feet and would feel more comfortable with
>some protection for the wire. As I see it my choices are:
>
>
>- Install an inline fuse holder in the engine compartment, near the
>battery.
>
>- Install a fusible Link.
>
>- Relocate the fuse block (I don t want to do this)
If it's not next to the battery, then it's
not a battery bus but an always-hot bus.
There are reasons for the published
recommendations based on about 70+ years
of aviation experience. But it is your
airplane and nobody here should be trying
to convince you to do something that is
not also supported by your understanding.
>
>
>I suspect the fusible link is a better option but I wanted to get some
>advice from other members of the list.
>
>If I use a fusible link how do I size it? Should it be 2AWG smaller than
>the wire?
Use a fuse here. It needs to be as responsive
as practical to overload/fault conditions. Fuses
are the device of choice.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch |
At 07:18 AM 11/7/2007 +1100, you wrote:
>G day Everyone,
>
>
>First let me start this discussion with how I would install manual trim
>systems in my RV 7 next time. The servos, wiring, relays, stick grips and
>other associated issues are just not worth the trouble and cost
>IMO. However, I have the things now so I am going to finish putting them in.
>
>
>I am fairly unhappy having an electric trim system in my aircraft without
>any manual system as I believe it is at risk of running away and cannot be
>manually returned to an in trim position. My expectation is that it may
>be possible to catch it in the act and disable the trim system before it
>manages to get itself to full travel. I believe this is virtually a
>requirement in the certified world, and I have lost count of the number of
>aircraft I have flown over the years with electric trim disabled. I want
>the disconnect on the stick as I feel it may be difficult to find in a
>hurry if it is elsewhere.
>
>
>In order to alleviate this issue I propose to fit a trim disconnect switch
>to my Ray Allen G207 switch. To date I have the four momentary push
>buttons for trim, another button for PTT, another for AP disconnect and a
>spare momentary switch. I propose to use this for the Trim Disconnect.
>
>
>The momentary switch is not ideal, as I guess I am going to need to use it
>to trigger a CB to pop or similar. This adds expense for the cct breaker
>and the wires running to my stick grip are pretty small (around 24 AWG or
>smaller) so I am not sure it will work.
>
>
>My other option is to replace the momentary switch with a miniature toggle
>from Ray Allen rated at 2A. I could use this to switch the power supply
>to both motors. I can see this adds failure points.
>
>
>Has anyone satisfactorily done this previously? What is recommended in
>this area?
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Trim/AP_Disconnect_B.pdf
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Questions on Z-16 Diagram |
At 08:14 PM 11/5/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Along these same Z-16 lines (Jabiru/Rotax with 20 amp AC generator)...
>
>Is it any problem for the regulator if it's control ("sense") is fed from
>the same circuit breaker as the OV module ( and OV-relay coil)?
>
>In other words, if the OV relay trips (breaking the AC line between the
>alternator and regulator), the "sense" line to the regulator opens,
>dropping the control voltage into the regulator to zero. Is this a problem?
>
>Would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to feeding the regulator
>control directly from the bus?
Depending on who's rectifier/regulator is being
used, there may be manufacturer's prohibitions
for connection of "C" to the bus independently
of B and R. Having said that, and based on what
I've seen of what's reputed to be an exemplar
schematic of this genre' of rectifier/regulator,
(See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/regul_912.jpg)
I can perceive no reason in the physics for
this prohibition. But unless provided with
a lucid schematic of the specific device
in question, I cannot refute the prohibition
with confidence. Hence the drawing you see
in Z-16.
What problems have you deduced for wiring
as suggested?
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( "Problems are the price of progress. )
( Don't bring me anything but trouble. )
( Good news weakens me." )
( -Charles F. Kettering- )
----------------------------------------
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