---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/08/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:21 AM - Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing (G-VANN) 2. 03:50 AM - Re: Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 04:35 AM - Re: Re:496 Audio--easy fix (MauleDriver) 4. 06:07 AM - Re: New product announcement (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:27 AM - Re: CH701 Rotax 912 (John Swanson) 6. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:27 AM - Tyco and all its problems (Fergus Kyle) 8. 08:09 AM - Re: Battery charging (roadmaps) 9. 11:02 AM - Re: Instrument panel beginner (dekano) 10. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Instrument panel beginner (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 11. 02:11 PM - Re: CH701 Rotax 912 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 02:46 PM - 396/496 Audio revisited (rd2@evenlink.com) 13. 04:16 PM - Re: Tyco and all its problems (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 04:26 PM - Re: 496 Audio (Kenneth Melvin) 15. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Battery charging (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 05:45 PM - Re: New product announcement (Bret Smith) 17. 07:56 PM - more on Trim Disconnect Switch (Bob-tcw) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:51 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing From: "G-VANN" I have installed a bent whip antenna in my RV-7A located centrally about 20cm behind the main gear legs and I have had a lot of trouble with it. I have had trouble with stations close to me and contacting FIS. I am looking for suggestions. I want to move it either forward or rearwards. Rearwards will put it behind the steps which I think are interfering with the signal. I am also going to mount a straight antenna on top of the aircraft fuselage and connect one to the main com and the other to a through panel 50 ohm bnc connector so that I can connect my handheld to it without fiddling about. I look forward to hearing any suggestions on belly locations. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144551#144551 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries At 09:12 AM 11/7/2007 -0600, you wrote: >Bob, >A few weeks back someone on the list posted a url for some low priced AA >and AAA cells. >You asked him to send some to you for evaluation, if he made the purchase. >I did indeed make that purchase. If the other lister has not send you any >cells, I would be happy to. They are from Batteries dot com. 500 cells for >$49.99 + $11.98 shipping. Thats 12.3 cents per cell delivered! The cells >have a 12 2012 out date. I was concerned that they might be short dated >for that price. >If you would like to hook them up to your battery runner downer I please >let me know, I will send some to you. Okay. A pair will suffice. I didn't get samples from the other gentleman. On this same topic, Big Lots has a 48-pak of AA Maxell alkalines on sale for $9.00 here in Wichita. Best price yet at under 20-cents per cell. I'm checking their capacity now. Will add your samples to the data base. Thanks for your time and interest. Bob Nuckolls 6936 Bainbridge Road Wichita, KS 67226-1008 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:32 AM PST US From: MauleDriver Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE:496 Audio--easy fix On my 396, you hit the power on/off button momentarily which brings up a pop-up with both volume and screen brightness controls. Hitting any other button afterwards kills the pop-up. Emrath wrote: > > > John, > I believe, if you are using a Garmin portable held for the XM feed, there > are some settings on the "Sound" page to control the volume. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:19 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New product announcement At 10:59 PM 11/7/2007 -0600, you wrote: > >Bob, > >Will this new solid state relay be suitable for use as the alternator >relay for the SD-8 (Z-13) or for the alternator relay for a Jabiru 20 amp >alternator, replacing relay S704-1? As I recall, you said in your Houston >class that the solid state relays have much lower holding current than >conventional relays. I'll have to think about that a bit. Probably not a drop-in replacement in Z-16 because "C" terminal draws a small amount of current which would be "back fed" through the de-energized relay into a non-running alternator. Yes, this "relay" operates on 20 mA of current while the S704-1 is on the order off 100 mA. But even 100 mA is so insignificant to the load analysis that I wouldn't recommend ditching the S704-1 for that reason alone. Hmmm . . . the other scenario is to consider the purpose of the S704-1 is to provide control in an OV condition too. The AEC9030 would get into trouble at over 24v differential or about 36 volts out of a runaway alternator. I guess the short answer is "no", not as presently configured. It's better suited for landing/taxi light control and wig-wag circuits, pitot heat relay, e-bus alternate feed, etc. The reason this came into existence so soon is that one of my clients needed to control some 8-15A loads and the controls design called for illuminated push-buttons that would not carry those loads. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:24 AM PST US From: "John Swanson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CH701 Rotax 912 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:04 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CH701 Rotax 912 > > > At 06:04 PM 11/7/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >>Installing Rotax 912 into CH701. >>Trying to wire the switch to the Mags. How do i install the flat pin >>terminal >>to the shielded wire? >>What tool do i need? > > I presume you're wrestling with the shield connection. > No special tools needed. You need to convert the shield > braid into wire like so: > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/pigtail/pigtail.html > > Once both conductors at the end of your shielded > wire are "plain wire", you can use the standard > PIDG terminals and appropriate tool. > > Bob . . . > > Bob Apparently the flat pin connector is German DIN, its now on the newer Rotax 912 engines. Its used to plug in the shielded wire from the switch into the electric module, (mags). I have already ruined one flat pin connector by not having the proper technique or tool. Any help on this would be appreciated Thankks John CH701 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:38 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing At 02:17 AM 11/8/2007 -0800, you wrote: > > >I have installed a bent whip antenna in my RV-7A located centrally about >20cm behind the main gear legs and I have had a lot of trouble with it. I >have had trouble with stations close to me and contacting FIS. I am >looking for suggestions. I want to move it either forward or >rearwards. Rearwards will put it behind the steps which I think are >interfering with the signal. I am also going to mount a straight antenna >on top of the aircraft fuselage and connect one to the main com and the >other to a through panel 50 ohm bnc connector so that I can connect my >handheld to it without fiddling about. I look forward to hearing any >suggestions on belly locations. I would explore other reasons first. It is exceedingly difficult to "shadow" a VHF comm antenna so severely as to attenuate your signals that bad. Those steps will have some influence . . . but it would take a carefully controlled setup on the antenna range to quantify it. Make sure the SWR is good on the antenna as-installed and that the transmitter's power output and modulation are up to snuff. I've seen deeper "shadows" due to local surroundings. I presume you're only having trouble on the ground. Does the hand-held with rubber-duck antenna work good when the panel mounted radio and belly antenna does not? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:23 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tyco and all its problems Perhaps someone can give me direction in a particularly troublesome regime. I refer to "TYCO". At somebody's suggestion, I dialled up: http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf, which gave me a somewhat expensive solution to the low output of the Rotax dynamo on my 914. Its advantage was to reduce the holding current to a large contactor to a small percentage of one Amp. I believe Ron Parigoris was the source of my info, but others had added to the list as well. The info sheet gives the description of the device as - "TYCO EV200 series contactor with 1 form A (SPST-NO)" and under the photo is: "EV200 Series Contactor (CZONKAR Relay, Type III)". What the significance of the 'Czonka ' is, is left to the customer to divine. I attempted to order a copy from the Canadaian office, which after 10 minutes of opting button 1 or other, left me talking to a clerk who admitted no knowledge of contactors. I then tried to order from the US office and got another series of button choices which promised technical assistance and delivered only the names of 6 women with no hint of their duties - all of this on long distance. I finally managed to find a sales clerk somewhere in USA who promised to deliver the required contactor and yesterday I picked it up in NY and paid the requisite duties and import tariffs only to find that it bears no connection with the above, but boasts a "GIGAVAC GX11BAA" tag. I have no idea what its holding current is, [try to find a column on the spec page which lists that] nor can I find anyone (human that is) who is willing to clarify the discrepancy. Failing education from Bob or Ron - or any other kind correspondent - I am going to recommend staying a hundred miles from TYCO/CZONKA/KILOVAC/GIGAVAC and its myriad ancillaries. Cheers, Ferg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:02 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charging From: "roadmaps" In using a diode to charge the second battery what current rating should the diode have? How do you calculate the current going through the diode? John T Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144581#144581 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:46 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner From: "dekano" For Visual rules flying you really don't need gyro instruments. If I were doing another 601 (I owned one for 400 hours) I'd put a steam driven ASI an altimeter and spend the rest of my money on a trutrak pictorial pilot...Yes an autopilot will be far more useful in this airplane (at least if you intend to use it for cross country flying) Dekano ---------------------------------------- Lapruebacigars (http://www.lapruebacigars.com) 8) [Laughing] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144611#144611 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:36 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" WOw...thats word forword almost exactly the same post I wrote about a month back...:) Even my 601 I sold with 400 hours on it! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dekano Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Instrument panel beginner --> For Visual rules flying you really don't need gyro instruments. If I were doing another 601 (I owned one for 400 hours) I'd put a steam driven ASI an altimeter and spend the rest of my money on a trutrak pictorial pilot...Yes an autopilot will be far more useful in this airplane (at least if you intend to use it for cross country flying) Dekano ---------------------------------------- Lapruebacigars (http://www.lapruebacigars.com) 8) [Laughing] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=144611#144611 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:46 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: CH701 Rotax 912 > >Apparently the flat pin connector is German DIN, its now on the newer Rotax >912 engines. Its used to plug in the shielded wire from the switch into the >electric module, (mags). I have already ruined one flat pin connector by not >having the proper technique or tool. >Any help on this would be appreciated Okay, you need to send me a picture of the parts you're working with. Get me a closeup of the un-installed pin and the socket in the module. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:14 PM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: 396/496 Audio revisited Thanks for all postings on the subject. I just re-reviewed the manuals and talked to Garmin. Also, I have gone through 196, 296 and 396. To summarize on the AUDIO subject: In aviation mode: 296 has terrain and obstructions, but no VOICE warnings 396 and 496 both have terrain and obstructions, as well as the following VOICE warnings: -Terrain -Obstructions -500 ft AGL -Sink Rate -Traffic (if so equipped) The available outputs for the above warnings (as well as for XM audio) are: 1) Data cable (voice+ and voice- ; use only voice+ , if not using the Garmin loudspeaker; do not use voice- ; instead, the ground of the power cable is used; voice- is meant for loudspeakers with no connection to the unit. The Data Cable output is mono, low impedance, amplified (for loudspeaker) The volume of the output can be controlled. Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings 2) 3.5 mm audio jack - stereo, line volume, higher impedance Music (if XM music is available) is soft-muted during warnings. The volume of the output can be controlled. So, there is no difference between 396 and 496 in terms of available audio (be it warnings or music) and there is no difference between the audio available from the data cable (voice+ to loudspeaker) and the audio output (3.5 mm jack). The only difference here is impedance, signal, and mono/stereo. Volume is controllable in both cases and XM music is soft-muted by the audio warnings. Volume controls everything coming out as audio [Terrain, Obstructions, 500 ft AGL, Sink Rate, Traffic (if so equipped), XM audio]. In aviation mode, Garmin does not encourage feeding the data+/- to the panel because it is an amplified low impedance, mono output, intended for speaker and the signal carries the same info as the 3.5 mm audio jack. Finally, the audio can be fed to a switched/soft-muted input of the audio panel or intercom (to be muted by any communication) or to a non-switched input (to be always audible). Problem is in the latter case, if there is XM audio, it will be always on during ATC communications. How to feed the audio from the 396/496 is a matter of personal preference; there are advantages and disadvantages with any approach; all taken into consideration, my preference is to use the 3.5 mm line audio and to feed it to a soft-muted input (e.g. intercom). Rumen _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from MauleDriver; Date: 07:30 AM 11/8/2007 -0500) ________________________________________________________________ On my 396, you hit the power on/off button momentarily which brings up a pop-up with both volume and screen brightness controls. Hitting any other button afterwards kills the pop-up. Emrath wrote: > > > John, > I believe, if you are using a Garmin portable held for the XM feed, there > are some settings on the "Sound" page to control the volume. > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:12 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tyco and all its problems Sorry your having so much trouble with this procurement my friend. Allied Electronics, for one, carries the Kilovac series devices. The catalog page is: http://tinyurl.com/3e3hyj I believe you want the Allied Stock #433-0016, Kilovac Model EV200AAANA, Tyco part #1618002-7 The part you have may be this same part. The data sheet for this part can be had at: http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf It shouldn't be hard to confirm with a multimeter that your holding current is on the order of .15A Hope this helps. Bob . . . At 09:58 AM 11/8/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >Perhaps someone can give me direction in a particularly troublesome regime. >I refer to "TYCO". At somebody's suggestion, I dialled up: >http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf, >which gave me a somewhat expensive solution to the low output of the Rotax >dynamo on my 914. Its advantage was to reduce the holding current to a >large contactor to a small percentage of one Amp. I believe Ron Parigoris >was the source of my info, but others had added to the list as well. >The info sheet gives the description of the device as - >"TYCO EV200 series contactor with 1 form A (SPST-NO)" and under the photo >is: >"EV200 Series Contactor >(CZONKAR Relay, Type III)". What the significance of the 'Czonka ' is, is >left to the customer to divine. >I attempted to order a copy from the Canadaian office, which after 10 >minutes of opting button 1 or other, left me talking to a clerk who admitted >no knowledge of contactors. I then tried to order from the US office and got >another series of button choices which promised technical assistance and >delivered only the names of 6 women with no hint of their duties - all of >this on long distance. I finally managed to find a sales clerk somewhere in >USA who promised to deliver the required contactor and yesterday I picked it >up in NY and paid the requisite duties and import tariffs only to find that >it bears no connection with the above, but boasts a "GIGAVAC GX11BAA" tag. I >have no idea what its holding current is, [try to find a column on the spec >page which lists that] nor can I find anyone (human that is) who is willing >to clarify the discrepancy. > Failing education from Bob or Ron - or any other kind correspondent >- I am going to recommend staying a hundred miles from >TYCO/CZONKA/KILOVAC/GIGAVAC and its myriad ancillaries. >Cheers, Ferg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:02 PM PST US From: "Kenneth Melvin" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 496 Audio I congratulate Dave Saylor upon his excellent instructions for connecting up the audio messages/warnings from the Garmin 496 into the audiopanel. I can now confirm that his method, described on this list November 1st., delivers the desired results, loud and clear. Kenneth Melvin, RV9A, Hillsboro, Oregon. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:48 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery charging At 07:57 AM 11/8/2007 -0800, you wrote: > >In using a diode to charge the second battery what current rating should >the diode have? How do you calculate the current going through the diode? Why a diode? You can hook the second battery right up to the system through a switch or relay and make sure it gets the full benefit of a charge from full bus voltage. Dual batteries have been discussed for many purposes and illustrated in the z-figures. Assuming you have active notification of alternator failure (low bus volts warning light) then there's little to be gained and something to be lost in using a diode for battery isolation. A switch works better. But if you have to have a diode, get one of these things from Radio Shack http://tinyurl.com/ytcdr7 and use one of the four diodes it contains. It's rated at 25A and will probably handle the task just fine . . . assuming that the "second battery" is a relatively small one. Like 10 a.h. or less. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:28 PM PST US From: "Bret Smith" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New product announcement You said "one of my clients needed to control some 8-15A loads and the controls design called for illuminated push-buttons that would not carry those loads." Bob, can you give us some idea how many "buttons" each relay would be able to control (I assume one button per relay). Also, what brand/type of illuminated push-buttons have you been testing with the relay? Bret Smith RV-9A N16BL Blue Ridge, Ga www.FlightInnovations.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:15 PM PST US From: "Bob-tcw" Subject: AeroElectric-List: more on Trim Disconnect Switch For those concerned about run-away trim conditions and being able to reverse those conditions you may want to look at a new product from TCW Technologies at www.tcwtech.com. This new product called Safety-Trim resolves run-away trim conditions, provides speed control, + 2 speed adjustable presets, + emergency trim reverse and is availble in 1 and 2 axis versions. Bob Newman TCW Technologies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.