---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/12/07: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:37 AM - Crimping Tools (noelk) 2. 02:31 AM - Re: AA battery replacer? What is this thingy called?? () 3. 05:04 AM - Re: Magneto and VM1000 Dimming (Ralph E. Capen) 4. 05:25 AM - Satellite antenna Proximity? (Eric Parlow) 5. 05:42 AM - Re: Z14 Bat/Alt Master switch circuit questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 05:52 AM - My SL-70 findings (Ralph E. Capen) 7. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 06:10 AM - Re: Satellite antenna ground planes required? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 06:20 AM - antenna proximity (Bob Newman) 10. 06:20 AM - Bus Bar Question (Michael Hinchcliff) 11. 07:09 AM - Re: Satellite antenna Proximity? (Deems Davis) 12. 07:36 AM - Fuses and fusible links (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 08:08 AM - Re: Satellite antenna Proximity? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 08:10 AM - Re: Crimping Tools (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 08:12 AM - Re: Bus Bar Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 08:26 AM - unswitched input - PM1000II (rd2@evenlink.com) 17. 08:46 AM - Re: Tyco and all its problems (Eric M. Jones) 18. 09:08 AM - Re: Tyco and all its problems (dballin) 19. 09:55 AM - Re: RV8 firewall ground block location (Valovich, Paul) 20. 10:03 AM - Transponder issues (antenna based?) (Ralph E. Capen) 21. 11:04 AM - Z-12 Questions (Jeff Page) 22. 11:23 AM - Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed (mosquito56) 23. 11:39 AM - Re: Matt's Profiteering (not) (mosquito56) 24. 12:23 PM - Re: Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed (Matt Prather) 25. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Matt's Profiteering (not) (Ernest Christley) 26. 12:36 PM - Power schematic for review (Europa List) 27. 02:04 PM - Re: Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed () 28. 02:41 PM - Re: Power schematic for review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 29. 03:39 PM - Re: unswitched input - PM1000II (n801bh@netzero.com) 30. 05:26 PM - Re: Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed (Michel Creek) 31. 07:28 PM - Re: Power schematic for review (Gaye and Vaughn) 32. 08:41 PM - Re: Power schematic for review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 33. 09:01 PM - Re: Power schematic for review (Gaye and Vaughn) 34. 09:03 PM - Re: Power schematic for review (Peter Harris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:38 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Tools From: "noelk" I have a crimping tool for PIDG-type connectors that, while bought locally here in Australia, appears to be identical to the RCT-1 from B&C. It did not come with any instructions regarding the pressure setting dial. Are there any general guidelines regarding the pressure setting to use for different wire gauges? If not, what are the things to look for in the finished crimp in order to assess whether the pressure setting is correct? Regards Noel Karppinen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145320#145320 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:58 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AA battery replacer? What is this thingy called?? >Re: AA battery replacer? What is this thingy called?? >From: "mikef" >Thanks again, Mike I know what you are asking, you want to connect a 12 volt cigarette to 3 volt power supply to your head-set through some dummy AA cells (with wires sticking out them). Well you could just solder or clip some wires in and route them out to a plug and the power supply. I am not sure they make AA with wires sticking out of them. You could make them but that is a lot of work for little gain. Do you wnat extra wires running all over and a 12v to 3 v power supply going all the time. Mike if I where you, I would by a bunch of rechargeable nickel-metal hydride batteries, abbreviated NiMH. Get the biggest capacity ones. Than just charge say 4 or 6 of them up and put them in your plane. You could also charge the "spare set" with a portable 12v cigarette lighter charger. You really don't want wires running all over do you? Just get a home charger and charge them there. I have about 30 NiiMH batteries I run through my charger. They last a long time in service. George __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:09 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magneto and VM1000 Dimming My VM1000 would dim with my B&C dimmer....then I started having problems with the backlight not working at all. JPI told me there was something wrong with my wiring - checked that. I haven't flown yet but they wouldn't repair it - and wanted too much money for me to give JPI. I bought an Advanced Flight Systems AF3400EM - used most of the existing wiring and am a happy camper now. Parting out my VM1000 to keep others going..... -----Original Message----- >From: DEAN PSIROPOULOS >Sent: Nov 11, 2007 2:47 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Magneto and VM1000 Dimming > > >Functional checkout of my (Nuckolls inspired)electrical system has gone well >so far with no smoked wiring or equipment. I bought an equivalent of an >Odyssey 680 a couple years ago and trickle charged it occasionally hoping it >would at least be good enough to do electrical checkout, first engine start >and maybe a few times around the pattern. But it appears that is not the >case. Voltmeter says there is 12.5 volts at the terminals but it can't >produce enough amps to fire the battery contactor or even make some sparks >when shorted, pretty pathetic. I substituted a Panasonic 4.5 amp hour sealed >lead acid battery that I bought second hand about 6 years ago. It's got >enough oomph for the checkout but I'll need a new 680 for 1st engine start. > >I did a test on my magneto P-lead (one mag on left side, electronic on right >side)with an ohm meter. Thinking that when the key switch is in the off >position, the resistance across the p-lead should measure close to dead >short and, it does. By the same logic, I thought that when the mag was >ungrounded the resistance across the pleads (I used a shielded wire with the >shield grounded at the magneto through the key switch as Bob recommends, no >local grounding). But when I measured across the p-leads at the magneto the >resistance only went from 0.2 ohms to 0.4 ohms when I turned the key. Not >an appreciable increase in resistance but it was consistent (happens every >time) and measurable. I thought maybe I had a faulty key switch but not so, >I removed one p-lead from the mag and made the same measurement and the >resistance with the key in that mag's position read infinite. I suspect >that there is some thing about magnetos I don't know and that this is not a >problem but would like to be sure. Anybody ever done this test? Did you get >the same results? > >Also checked out the VM-1000 and it seems to work fine except for dimming. >I used one of the B&C dimmers connected to the VM-1000 dimming input but I >don't seem to get any dimming action (backlight works ok). Anyone else >experience this? Have I missed something in the VM manual and it doesn't use >an external dimming input? Any thoughts? Thanks. > >Dean >RV-6A N197DM >closer to 1st flight. > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:38 AM PST US From: "Eric Parlow" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Satellite antenna Proximity? Is there a concern in mounting 3 GPS antennas within 12" of each other? One is WAAS for a GNS-430W, One is for EFIS, and one is for a handheld Garmin 396. ERic-- RV-10, N104EP ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z14 Bat/Alt Master switch circuit questions At 03:26 PM 11/11/2007 -0500, you wrote: >Bob, > > >I m building a Z-14 (dual bat, dual alt, split bus) with a 100amp primary >alt, a 20amp aux alt (SD20), and identical Odyssey style, AGM >batteries. Thus, I ve biased my heavy/normal loads toward the primary >side/bus (heated prop, heated seats, etc). > > >I noted the z-14 drawing has s700-2-10 (three way) bat/alt master >switches, which are functionally equivalent to traditional Cessna style >split master switches. I understand this is a useful approach for >preventing activation of an alternator without an associated battery >on-line. However, as shown, it also means that taking a battery off-line >dictates that the associated alternator is off-line. > > >It seems that it would still be ok to leave an alternator on-line, with it >s associated battery off-line, as long as the cross-tie and other battery >were still on-line. However, this is not possible as shown in a std Z-14. > > >I m interested in knowing more regarding these potential scenarios and >potential alternative approaches& > > >1) What typically happens when a battery fails that might cause >someone to want it off-line? Doesn't happen in a adequately mainatined RG battery. >a. Shorts a cell, which causes it to drop approx 2 volts (???) > > i. > Would I even know this while the alternator is working?? > ii. What > happens if it (and the associated alt) is left on-line??? Not a scenario to consider. >b. Battery cable becomes disconnected, or contactor fails, etc - >which causes the battery to become off-line > > i. > What happens to the alternator that is now working without an associated > battery? Voltage regulation might become a bit less stable . . . not big deal. Alternator at-risk for being "stalled" by hi-inrush load but easily accommodated by closing crossfeed contactor after the stall-event. > ii. How > would I know to turn on the cross-tie (assuming it was normally off) to > tie the lone alternator to the remaining good battery? Any time one of the two busses goes dark -OR- if the alternator is known to be off-line (low volts warning light). >c. Other Failure scenarios??? > > >2) It seems the wiring alternatives would include: > > >a. Do nothing (leave z14 as-is) since the potential loss of a battery >is low, and even so I could simply either 1) leave the failed battery and >associated good alt on-line (with the cross connector) and/or 2) complete >an expedited landing with only the aux power system. Gross battery failures in a maintained battery are exceedingly rare. I cannot say "zero" but it's so close to zero that you and I are unlikely to hear of anyone who had the experience and even less likely to experience it ourselves. > > >b. Include a pullable breaker (or fuse) in series with the battery >contactor side of the s700-2-10 master switch to allow the alternator to >be on-line with the battery off-line (by pulling that breaker/fuse) and >leaving the switch in the both-on position. Of course this essentially >overrides the inherent alternator only prevention and implies the user >knows the cross-tie must therefore also be on. > > >c. Create a more complex logic-based circuit with separate bat and >alt switches that only energizes the alternator switches when a >appropriate battery is also connected (either the associated battery or >the other battery and the cross-tie) > > >d. Create fully separate bat and alt switches and leave it up to the >pilot to get it right (the simplest, but perhaps not the safest). > > >e. Other??? Z-14 has simmered on the stove for over 10 years with considerable praying over the list of failure modes by lots of folks. As published, it meets the design goals for minimum parts count and simple operating procedures that avoid becoming a diagnostician/mechanic in flight. If it were my airplane, I'd install it as-published. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:24 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: AeroElectric-List: My SL-70 findings Reposted from other lists - hopefully to elicit Bob N's comments! Here's what I've done/found: Upon start-up the SL-70 says TEST and FAIL in the two display windows. If I turn the little knob on the right - it goes to the specific tests individually - all PASS except for SYN, RECV, and TRAN Took antenna direct to the back of the unit (down to the first piece of coax) with a 5.5" aluminum disk as a ground plane. No change Measured continuity of the first piece of coax Open from center to shield Initial resistance of center conductor goes to zero shortly Initial resistance of shield does not go to zero but remains very low The Transponder did not come alive - although it still continues to pass encoder info to the GPS Here's what I think: The radio portion of the unit is hosed and the box needs to go in for repair - off to call GarminAT repair. The first antenna coupling (in the back of the unit's tray) and the first chunk of cable attached thereto is where I'll start troubleshooting the resistance problem. Here's where I need comments: RG400 shield resistance - I think it should go to zero just like the center conductor. The first pair of connectors appear to be silver plated - and the plating appears to be oxidized - I would think that inserting and reseating the connector should (but shouldn't need to) renew the connection. This is the same tray connector (I think) that has been recently mentioned on this list. Thanks in advance, Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: TRIM Disconnect Switch At 10:09 PM 11/11/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >Way off topic here.. > >Any time I hear the "patent" word in the midst of real innovators I cringe. > >PLEASE look at > >"Case Against Patents" on Don Lancaster's WWW.tinaja.com > >Then if you want to know how real innovators make money from ideas, >read "Riskdown" on the same site. Agreed. I've had numerous clients bring up the topic of seeking formalized "protections" of one kind or another, including patents. I refer them to the biographies of individuals like Edwin Armstrong . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Howard_Armstrong who had a "great idea" but not the resources to exploit it . . . in particular a high-demand marketplace. His patent battles ultimately consumed both his material and spiritual existence. I always tell my customers that the best way to "protect their investment" is to vigorously and skillfully exploit it while working diligently to be the first to obsolete the present incarnation of the idea before competition does it for them. Nowhere has this philosophy been more successfully practiced than in the computer accessories business. Had a client in KC seek my help some years ago on a product that would be manufactured for a total of perhaps 18 months but 9-12 months more typical. Many of their products ran their market life in two or three batches of production only to be replaced by the next greatest thing. Return on investment peaks when the agile supplier of goods figures out how to optimize their product in ways most attractive to consumers. These folks are always successful and probably much more successful than those who spend $time$ arguing the finer points of their patents before a jury educated in American public schools. There is probably no feature of an RV that is worthy of patenting or even copyrighting but Mr. V has demonstrated his ability to offer an attractive product that is constantly evolving into the next greatest thing. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:36 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Satellite antenna ground planes required? At 08:11 PM 11/11/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >I have 2 (two) satellite antennas mounted to the top of my RV-10 cabin. On >is for a WAAS GPS sensor and the Other is for an XM weather receiver.The >cabin top is entirely made of fiberglass/epoxy composite. I've looked in >vain for information as to whether or not groundplanes are required for >these antennas, and if so what size/dimension. I would dearly appreciate >any guidance and direction the list or it's Sponsor might provide. Ground planes at 1.5 GHz are not terribly large in terms of real estate . . . and depending on the antenna's design, may not be necessary at all. What ever manner of shelf, fabricated from aluminum sheet and used to position the antennas at the top of the fuselage will no doubt prove to be adequate. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:06 AM PST US From: "Bob Newman" Subject: AeroElectric-List: antenna proximity Eric, I studied all the documents I could find on this subject when I did our new panel in our Glastar and found nothing suggest a problem would occur. So I mounted our two Garmin GPS antennas within about 6" of each other. One feeds our GNS-530 and one feeds our Garmin 250-XL. On occasion I stick the remote antenna for my hand held Garmin on the skylight of The glastar within about 12" of the other two antennas. I've flown this combo for about a year including IFR. I've had zero problems. Bob Newman www.tcwtech.com If you want to check out our instrument panel fed by this combination of antennas visit the web site listed above and then scroll down to the bottom of our home page, click on "visit or new instruement panel N99RN" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:15 AM PST US From: "Michael Hinchcliff" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bus Bar Question Are the brass strips sold by B&C adequate to use as a bus bar for a 12V ship on a 60 amp circuit-breaker ? The brass strips are 0.5 inches wide, but only .025 thick. Seems quite thin considering the 6 AWG cable that feeds it. Should I use something a little thicker? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:23 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Satellite antenna Proximity? Eric, the information i received on the same subject, indicated that for the WAAS and Weather antennas, the only promimity issue was to avoid placing them close to TRANSMITTING antennas. Deems Davis # 406 'Its all done....Its just not put together' http://deemsrv10.com/ Eric Parlow wrote: > > > Is there a concern in mounting 3 GPS antennas within 12" of each other? > One is WAAS for a GNS-430W, One is for EFIS, and one is for a handheld > Garmin 396. > > ERic-- > RV-10, N104EP > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuses and fusible links Bob: Your book says "B-lead fuse kit from our website catalog" which I'm not able to locate on your site- is it still available? B&C has acquired all of our parts business. See http://bandc.biz If you're thinking of using a fusible link in the output of a PM alternator or perhaps an SD-20, consider also the MAXI fuse in-line fuse holders. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Fuses/Fuse_Holders/MaxiFuse_Holder.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Fuses/Fuse_Holders/Maxi_Holder.gif You can get these at auto parts stores along with matching fuses . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Fuses/Fuses/maxi.gif http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/MAXI_Specs.pdf Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:08 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Satellite antenna Proximity? At 08:22 AM 11/12/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > >Is there a concern in mounting 3 GPS antennas within 12" of each other? >One is WAAS for a GNS-430W, One is for EFIS, and one is for a handheld >Garmin 396. > >ERic-- >RV-10, N104EP No Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Tools At 01:32 AM 11/12/2007 -0800, you wrote: > >I have a crimping tool for PIDG-type connectors that, while bought locally >here in Australia, appears to be identical to the RCT-1 from B&C. It did >not come with any instructions regarding the pressure setting dial. Are >there any general guidelines regarding the pressure setting to use for >different wire gauges? If not, what are the things to look for in the >finished crimp in order to assess whether the pressure setting is correct? > >Regards > >Noel Karppinen The RCT-1 doesn't have an adjustment. I suspect your adjustment has more to do with how much force it takes to complete the handle-stroke as opposed to closure of the dies. See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html The dies should close completely and the tool should not take excessive hand-force to complete the cycle. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bus Bar Question At 08:17 AM 11/12/2007 -0600, you wrote: >Are the brass strips sold by B&C adequate to use as a bus bar for a 12V >ship on a 60 amp circuit-breaker ? The brass strips are 0.5 inches wide, >but only .025 thick. Seems quite thin considering the 6 AWG cable that >feeds it. Should I use something a little thicker? Nope. While they appear "thin" the surface area and local attachments for rejecting heat are superior to insulated wire. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:57 AM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: unswitched input - PM1000II Has anyone tried to use the input for aircraft radio of PS Enginerring PM1000II intercom (pins 17 and 4) as an unswitched/unmuted input for warnings etc.? If yes, what is the recommended resistor in line of the signal to the intercom? (PS Engineering is reluctant to give advice on the subject.) Rumen ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:42 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tyco and all its problems From: "Eric M. Jones" Gilles, You didn't miss anything. The reasons for using the EV200aaana or the GX11 are more than just hold current. (Gigavac also has a lower hold current model if you ask) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is mostly a repost. Compare--- ____________________Type 70__________GX-11 Weight.........................12.5 Oz.............18 Oz Temp...........................50 DegC...........75-85 DegC (50 degC 122 F) makes the type 70 unusable.... Position........................Cap Down..........Any Environmental...............Dust-Proof.........Hermetically sealed Coil Suppression............Must be added....Built in B&C Type 70 uses diodes, GX-11 uses transorbs (SnapJacks!) Continuous Amps............80 at 50C..........150A at 75C Inrush A.........................150...................500-2000 Open against Vmax.......... 35V.................>>100V (...same as Kilovac) Hold current.....................1.0 A................700 mA (Kilovac is 100 mA, Gigavac has lower hold currents on request) G-force opening...............2G ??................>>10G Anyway the GX11 will be about $120, but the Type 70 ($37.00 from Newark) is not really useable in my opinion. You may want the accessory contacts and long leads...couldn't hurt. The Kilovac EV200aaana (aka Blue Sea 9012) is still great (similar to the Gigavac GX11). The type 70 is problematic even if very common and long in the tooth. It is deficient in four main areas: 1) Poor coil suppression (this can be retrofitted to improve it) 2) Inadequate operating temperature. My GUESS is that the early ones had fiber/bakelite interiors, now they are Nylon. Regardless 122F spec is way too low to use. 3) Inadequate G force withstand. 2G ?? 4) Open against Vmax. 35V. They could sustain an arc if the alternator runs away. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145413#145413 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:32 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Tyco and all its problems From: "dballin" Gilles You are absolutely right and my mistake. Gigavac does make a more efficient model the GX11TA 24v 45mA hold down current. You just have to ask for it! Thanks for catching my error. Dan Ballin Legacy #286 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145421#145421 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RV8 firewall ground block location From: "Valovich, Paul" I'm building an -8A QB, using fuses vice CBs. My ground block is on the lower firewall on the left side (looking fwd) of the deep baggage compartment hole. My fuse blocks are on the forward side of the aft deep baggage compartment bulkhead. After wiring is complete, I'll build a lightweight container around the blocks to isolate them from cargo. Give up a few cubic inches, but provide easy access. Paul Valovich N192NM Reserved (Again) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:50 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder issues (antenna based?) Here's what I've done/found: Upon start-up the SL-70 says TEST and FAIL in the two display windows. If I turn the little knob on the right - it goes to the specific tests individually -all PASS except for SYN, RECV, and TRAN Took antenna direct to the back of the unit (down to the first piece of coax) with a 5.5" aluminum disk as a ground plane. No change Measured continuity of the first piece of coax Open from center to shield Initial resistance of center conductor goes to zero shortly Initial resistance of shield does not go to zero but remains very low The Transponder did not come alive - although it still continues to pass encoder info to the GPS Here's what I think: The radio portion of the unit is hosed and the box needs to go in for repair - off to call GarminAT repair. The first antenna coupling (in the back of the unit's tray) and the first chunk of cable attached thereto is where I'll start troubleshooting the resistance problem. Here's where I need comments: RG400 shield resistance - I think it should go to zero just like the center conductor. The first pair of connectors appear to be silver plated - and the plating appears to be oxidized - I would think that inserting and reseating the connector should (but shouldn't need to) renew the connection. Thanks in advance, Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:19 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-12 Questions I have now read my new Aero Electric Connection cover to cover. Even for someone with a university education in electronics, it was still fabulously enlightening. Thanks Bob ! One of the things I have already learned is that Bob has designed everything as it is for a particular and often unapparent reason. So I have questions before I change anything :-) I am building a night VFR aircraft which will have a Dynon as the main instruments and engine monitoring. I will probably have a real ASI and altimeter, since I find them much easier to read and I can happily fly without the Dynon then. We take long distance trips, so I am more concerned with failures that make it difficult to fly 10 hours home than flight safety to get back on the ground, since I am usually flying in nice weather. In my 400 hours of flying, I have already had an alternator failure in a rental aircraft. Although it was uneventful really, I would not want to fly a long trip home without any electrics. So Z-12 looks like a good fit for me, with an SD-8 as the backup alternator (brilliant idea this product). Figure 17-4 shows an SD-8 charging the battery directly, whereas Z-12 is like 17-8 with the two alternators are in parallel, and thus the SD-8 cannot charge the battery with the contactor open. I don't think the B&C SB1B-14 regulator is intended for the SD-8. So wire the SD-8 like figure 17-4 ? It is easy to put a long list of items on the endurance bus. However, maybe that doesn't matter. The likely failure modes need to be analyzed. In the event of an alternator failure, switches can be used to turn off unnecessary devices, so it doesn't matter which bus they are really on (just contactor hold current). In the event of an electrical fire, the battery contactor will be switched off, so only the necessary items for an immediate emergency landing need to be on the endurance bus. Maybe an electrical fire is far less likely since I will be using fuses almost entirely. Unlike a circuit breaker that cannot be trusted to pop, the fuse will likely blow. No fire, smoke or smell, so usually no need to turn off the battery contactor ?? The diode tying the main bus to the endurance bus seems unnecessary. The main bus could easily be wired to pin 3 of the e-bus alternate feed switch. This implies the diode is more reliable than the switch (which is only switched once to test at each run-up). If it is a reliability concern, why not wire the switch and keep the diode ? Or is there another reason I haven't even guessed at ? I will appreciate everyone's input. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:40 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed From: "mosquito56" I was going with the dynon d100-d180 combo when the guy from can-zac (sorry, terrible with names but he is very well know, loved the stratch building video) mentioned http://www.sensornetics.com/. I have looked at this product and it seems superior to the dynon and about 2k less expensive. I am leary of purchasing an unknown system. Can anyone give feedback on system and support from this company? Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145459#145459 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:17 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Matt's Profiteering (not) From: "mosquito56" I have to put my 2 cents in. If a person gives a service worth something then we should be willing to pay something for it. There are a couple of good reasons for doing this for free but they can only last for a very limited time. The reasons might be boredom, learning or enjoyment of coding. Each reason is valid but all only last for a limited time. I am sure Matt could find something better to do, has learned all he need about coding, and has had so much coding it is no longer enjoyable doing the same thing over and over. Now that he has no reason to pay the massive bills to run the server, the only option left is to pay for his time. If he is not given sufficient reasons to run this site he may just turn the darn thing off. If he were to do that I would be up the creek with no paddle. Anyone who thinks yahoo groups are worthwhile except for general chit chat about planes is crazy. I am in 5 groups and get maybe 4 emails a day. The responses to yahoo are so small that I have e-mails sent to me anytime anyone puts in a message. If I tried that with matronics I would be so overloaded with e-mails I would spend an hour a day erasing e-mails. My point is until I found matronics from the Zenith site, I had no informational source from the net and was completely lost. I figure if we each give minimum $20 and he gets 2,000 checks each year that should help with the bills and leave enough for a few adult beverages at the end of the day. If you really think yahoo is better because it's free, then be so kind as to not use up our bandwidth with nonesense. SEND A CHECK!!!!! If you can afford a $100 hamburger you can afford something for Matt. P.S. I don't know Matt. I have only been on this site since July when I bought my kit. Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145462#145462 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed From: "Matt Prather" While the sensornetics products look pretty slick, it doesn't appear that they include any type of gyro capability. That probably represents at least a portion of the cost savings. Regards, Matt- > > > I was going with the dynon d100-d180 combo when the guy from can-zac > (sorry, terrible with names but he is very well know, loved the stratch > building video) mentioned http://www.sensornetics.com/. > I have looked at this product and it seems superior to the dynon and > about 2k less expensive. > I am leary of purchasing an unknown system. Can anyone give feedback on > system and support from this company? > Don > > -------- > Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx > Apologies if I seem antagonistic. > I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals > for assistance in this thing we call life. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145459#145459 > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:43 PM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Matt's Profiteering (not) mosquito56 wrote: > > I have to put my 2 cents in. If a person gives a service worth something then we should be willing to pay something for it. > There are a couple of good reasons for doing this for free but they can only last for a very limited time. The reasons might be boredom, learning or enjoyment of coding. Each reason is valid but all only last for a limited time. > I am sure Matt could find something better to do, has learned all he need about coding, and has had so much coding it is no longer enjoyable doing the same thing over and over. > Now that he has no reason to pay the massive bills to run the server, the only option left is to pay for his time. If he is not given sufficient reasons to run this site he may just turn the darn thing off. If he were to do that I would be up the creek with no paddle. > Anyone who thinks yahoo groups are worthwhile except for general chit chat about planes is crazy. I am in 5 groups and get maybe 4 emails a day. The responses to yahoo are so small that I have e-mails sent to me anytime anyone puts in a message. If I tried that with matronics I would be so overloaded with e-mails I would spend an hour a day erasing e-mails. > My point is until I found matronics from the Zenith site, I had no informational source from the net and was completely lost. > I figure if we each give minimum $20 and he gets 2,000 checks each year that should help with the bills and leave enough for a few adult beverages at the end of the day. > If you really think yahoo is better because it's free, then be so kind as to not use up our bandwidth with nonesense. > > SEND A CHECK!!!!! If you can afford a $100 hamburger you can afford something for Matt. > > P.S. I don't know Matt. I have only been on this site since July when I bought my kit. > > I've sent a check, but I hate to see things going overboard. Massive server? I don't know how many list Matt's running, but the Aeroelectric list and a dozen like it would run fine on a 5yr-old low end computer contected to a residential broadband connection. I ran several list a while back, and like you say, it gets old. It can be rather tedious at times, and it is one more responsibility that isn't building airplanes. Matt does more than I ever cared to, with the virus/spam scanning and all, but it is still a fairly intermittent duty. Maintaining the forums may be different. I would never run one, because I don't even like to use them. Yahoo irritates the snot out of me every time I try (generally unsuccessfully) log on. All the useless graphics, and adds for consumer CRAP flooding my connection just grates on my last nerve. You're paying every time you log onto Yahoo, because they are selling YOU. You are the product they sell to advertisers, and everything about their site screams that at you. I appreciate a clean, uncluttered text interface and I'm willing to pay a few dollars to keep it. Matt deserves his due. I just object to the hyperbole. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:07 PM PST US From: "Europa List" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review Here's my plan for my Europa with a ULPower Ul260i powerplant. Comments please. Thank you. Vaughn Teegarden Hoping to finish before I die ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:30 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed From: I saw a demo of this product at a show a few years back. Very good display - very clear. Correct, as far as the EFIS is concerned it doesn't take a rocket scientist to map a GPS signal. No value there, everyone sells that these days. If you need a very compact engine monitor, this is a good way to go. As far as duplicating data how many engine monitors can one use? I now have an AF3500, a D100 and a GRT EIS which all have their own purpose but can display or add engine information for low cost and I don't need to punch another hole in the panel. If you just want to go for a cheap efis display, this might do, but you'd better have a good gps signal to back it up. Add 12k for something you can really trust and the value starts to disappear. It's probably better to spend 2-5k on something you might need to rely on later. Also, if you start listing the D100 features you'd have to replace with something else, you'll be writing more checks. I didn't see anything on battery backup? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Prather Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:22 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed --> While the sensornetics products look pretty slick, it doesn't appear that they include any type of gyro capability. That probably represents at least a portion of the cost savings. Regards, Matt- > > > I was going with the dynon d100-d180 combo when the guy from can-zac > (sorry, terrible with names but he is very well know, loved the > stratch building video) mentioned http://www.sensornetics.com/. > I have looked at this product and it seems superior to the dynon > and about 2k less expensive. > I am leary of purchasing an unknown system. Can anyone give > feedback on system and support from this company? Don > > -------- > Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx > Apologies if I seem antagonistic. > I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between > individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145459#145459 > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review At 03:34 PM 11/12/2007 -0500, you wrote: >Here's my plan for my Europa with a ULPower Ul260i powerplant. Comments >please. Thank you. Wondering why you left off OV protection? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) ( Good news weakens me." ) ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:43 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: unswitched input - PM1000II On my KMD150 King MFD there is a tone that sounds. I wired it into my PM 100II and it worked perfectly. It has been a few years since I did my panel and I don't remember what pin I connected it to but the tone will muffle when I speak into the mic so it is not the primary incoming circ uit. I will look through my notes to see if I can narrow it down if you wish. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- rd2@evenlink.com wrote: Has anyone tried to use the input for aircraft radio of PS Enginerring PM1000II intercom (pins 17 and 4) as an unswitched/unmuted input for warnings etc.? If yes, what is the recommended resistor in line of the signal to the intercom? (PS Engineering is reluctant to give advice on the subject.) Rumen ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:07 PM PST US From: "Michel Creek" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Sensornetics Efs and Efis system, feedback needed Don, I don't have any information on the Sensornetics equipment, however I did a lot of research on EFIS systems before purchasing a GRT Sport System; I am very happy with that decision. The other two majors are also very good (AFS, Dynon). I will pass along my experience; and that is you get what you pay for. If a system is that much less than the competitors, I would ask myself why and think long and hard about the value of their offering. Too many times on my Bearhawk project I thought I'd save money choosing the least expensive option only to have it cost me more in the long run. Now I look for overall value instead of initial cost and that has worked well for me. Just my 2 cents worth. Mike Creek ____________________________________________________________________________ You Wrote: I was going with the dynon d100-d180 combo when the guy from can-zac (sorry, terrible with names but he is very well know, loved the stratch building video) mentioned http://www.sensornetics.com/. I have looked at this product and it seems superior to the dynon and about 2k less expensive. I am leary of purchasing an unknown system. Can anyone give feedback on system and support from this company? Don -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:07 PM PST US From: "Gaye and Vaughn" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review This is the message That I got from ULPower when I asked them about overvoltage protection. "The Regulator has an internal over-voltage shunt built in." Vaughn ---- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:39 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review > > > At 03:34 PM 11/12/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >>Here's my plan for my Europa with a ULPower Ul260i powerplant. Comments >>please. Thank you. > > Wondering why you left off OV protection? > > > Bob . . . > > ---------------------------------------- > ( "Problems are the price of progress. ) > ( Don't bring me anything but trouble. ) > ( Good news weakens me." ) > ( -Charles F. Kettering- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:33 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review At 10:25 PM 11/12/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > >This is the message That I got from ULPower when I asked them about >overvoltage protection. > >"The Regulator has an internal over-voltage shunt built in." ??? Hmmmm . . . This would be a first for PM rectifier/regulator products that I'm aware of. Can you tell me the manufacturer and part number for this device? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:45 PM PST US From: "Gaye and Vaughn" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review I will see if I can find that information. Vaughn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:34 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review > > > At 10:25 PM 11/12/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> >>This is the message That I got from ULPower when I asked them about >>overvoltage protection. >> >>"The Regulator has an internal over-voltage shunt built in." > > ??? Hmmmm . . . This would be a first for > PM rectifier/regulator products that I'm > aware of. Can you tell me the manufacturer > and part number for this device? > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:47 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review Bob, Vaughn Maybe they are referring to the regulator circuit itself but we need to protect against the failure of this component. Peter H -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2007 2:34 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Power schematic for review At 10:25 PM 11/12/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > >This is the message That I got from ULPower when I asked them about >overvoltage protection. > >"The Regulator has an internal over-voltage shunt built in." ??? Hmmmm . . . This would be a first for PM rectifier/regulator products that I'm aware of. Can you tell me the manufacturer and part number for this device? Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.