AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 12/09/07


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:34 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 (Lee Logan)
     2. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 (BobsV35B@aol.com)
     3. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 (Chuck Jensen)
     4. 09:38 AM - Re: Wiring diagram needed for homebuilt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 09:56 AM - Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? (n707sm)
     6. 01:16 PM - Re: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 04:44 PM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Frank Stringham)
     8. 05:37 PM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Michael T. Ice)
     9. 06:15 PM - Re: Radio question (Todd Heffley)
    10. 06:42 PM - Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit (Mark Banus)
    11. 07:44 PM - Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit (Ralph Hoover)
    12. 09:38 PM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 10:54 PM - Re: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? (n707sm)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:34:03 AM PST US
    From: "Lee Logan" <leeloganster@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07
    I was doing a little refresher reading the other day and though I don't have it in front of me right now, I think some of what I read was pertinent to the "IFR instrument check" question. If I am remembering correctly, the FAA IFR Instrument manual contains a discussion of the issue and points out that you might reasonably assume that a certified WAAS GPS could be used as a sole navigation reference under all conditions, but that such was not the case. The manual pointed out that when you file to an IFR destination you may find your only suitable alternate requires VOR/ILS and has no GPS or GPS overlay approach. That would suggest that your VOR would then require a current accuracy check to be used, otherwise you could not legally file the flight. Not trying further complicate this clearly transitional issue, but I *think*it even said you had to have an operating VOR/ILS to even file an alternate of any kind. Maybe someone can clear this up as well. Regards, Lee...


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:04:40 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07
    Good Morning Lee, Having a VHF navigation capability will add flexibility, but it is not required if you have a fully qualified TSO C146a box on board. Obviously, if you have only the "Sole Means" GPS equipment available, you cannot use, as an IFR alternate, an airport that has no GPS approach unless you can arrive at the alternate in good VFR conditions. There is NO need for any approach capability at the alternate if the weather meets the following conditions. >From the FARs: ----------------------- (2) If no instrument approach procedure has been published in _part 97_ (http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/97-index.shtml) of this chapter and no special instrument approach procedure has been issued by the Administrator to the operator, for the alternate airport, the ceiling and visibility minima are those allowing descent from the MEA, approach, and landing under basic VFR. ----------------------- Unfortunately, an awful lot of so called experts tend to add their personal operating procedures to the FARs when they tell others what to do. I suppose I am guilty of that at times, but I sure try hard to really find out what the rules are first. As a good friend of mine has said. "If you do not know the rules, how ya gonna cheat?" Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 12/9/2007 8:36:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, leeloganster@gmail.com writes: I was doing a little refresher reading the other day and though I don't have it in front of me right now, I think some of what I read was pertinent to the "IFR instrument check" question. If I am remembering correctly, the FAA IFR Instrument manual contains a discussion of the issue and points out that you might reasonably assume that a certified WAAS GPS could be used as a sole navigation reference under all conditions, but that such was not the case. The manual pointed out that when you file to an IFR destination you may find your only suitable alternate requires VOR/ILS and has no GPS or GPS overlay approach. That would suggest that your VOR would then require a current accuracy check to be used, otherwise you could not legally file the flight. Not trying further complicate this clearly transitional issue, but I think it even said you had to have an operating VOR/ILS to even file an alternate of any kind. Maybe someone can clear this up as well. Regards, Lee... **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:17:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07
    From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
    Lee, Yee gads, what kind of alternate is that that has only a VOR/ILS approach and no GPS? And no, one of the advantages of the WAAS certified GPS is you can file an alternate that still relies on a GPS approach. With a non-certified GPS, the alternate must be with an approach that does not rely on the GPS. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lee Logan Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 I was doing a little refresher reading the other day and though I don't have it in front of me right now, I think some of what I read was pertinent to the "IFR instrument check" question. If I am remembering correctly, the FAA IFR Instrument manual contains a discussion of the issue and points out that you might reasonably assume that a certified WAAS GPS could be used as a sole navigation reference under all conditions, but that such was not the case. The manual pointed out that when you file to an IFR destination you may find your only suitable alternate requires VOR/ILS and has no GPS or GPS overlay approach. That would suggest that your VOR would then require a current accuracy check to be used, otherwise you could not legally file the flight. Not trying further complicate this clearly transitional issue, but I think it even said you had to have an operating VOR/ILS to even file an alternate of any kind. Maybe someone can clear this up as well. Regards, Lee...


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:38:44 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Wiring diagram needed for homebuilt
    David, It occurs to me that there are any number of folks on the List with the skills and perhaps the willingness to assist you. I will suggest that anyone who would like to join David in getting his project off the ground might write to him and negotiate. Keep in mind that the data only needs to be clearly stated which does NOT require tools like AutoCAD. The task would certainly be easier if a reference designator list and bill of materials were crafted in Excel. Bottom line folks is that here's a free-market opportunity for someone. What do you have to offer David that he is willing to pay for where the outcome of the experience is pleasant for both of you? Further, consider that the materials you deliver need not be the work product of you alone. I would hope that folks here on the List are just as willing to help find answers to your questions whether the end product goes on YOUR airplane or somebody else's. I know I am. Bob . . . >> >>Lad...I'm getting short on time building this Fairchild project >>and to be honest, I just don't want to put the time into developing >>a wiring system / diagram for my project. I'm going thru enough >>learning curves as it is. Blasphemy to some you may say...but is >>there anyone on the list that might be willing to build me up a >>wiring system for a price? The system is relatively simple...air >>start solenoid for starter, one 70 amp alt, 28 volts with two >>step down converters for a few 14 volt requirements, some >>VFR only instruments, strobe and position lights etc. >>If interested, please advise off list to dstroud@storm.ca >>Thanks.. >> >>David Stroud Ottawa, Canada >>C-FDWS Christavia >>Fairchild 51 under construction


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:56:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion?
    From: "n707sm" <mobrien02@comcast.net>
    I'm confused about the wiring for the "Eng Bat (2-10)" switch depicted in the Z-19/RB architecture diagram. Please help me to understand. Here is what I read this switch wiring to be: Pin 1: Connected to Pin 5 Pin 2: Feed to energize Engine Battery contactor Pin 3: Open Pin 4: 12 volts input Pin 5: Connected to Pin 1 Pin 6: Ground I can see how the switch will provide 12 volts to the Engine Battery Contactor in the up "Auto" position, but I don't understand how this switch (in this wiring configuration) will provide 12 volts to the Engine Battery contactor in the center "On" position. To test, I have connected Pin 1 to Pin 5. Then with a continuity test function on my Auto Ranging Multimeter, I test for continuity between Pin 4 and Pin 2 with the switch in the center On position, and also in the up Auto position. I only receive continuity in the up Auto position. What am I missing? Thanks in advance, Michael Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151331#151331


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:16:23 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion?
    At 09:53 AM 12/9/2007 -0800, you wrote: > >I'm confused about the wiring for the "Eng Bat (2-10)" switch depicted in >the Z-19/RB architecture diagram. Please help me to understand. >Here is what I read this switch wiring to be: > >Pin 1: Connected to Pin 5 >Pin 2: Feed to energize Engine Battery contactor >Pin 3: Open >Pin 4: 12 volts input >Pin 5: Connected to Pin 1 >Pin 6: Ground > >I can see how the switch will provide 12 volts to the Engine Battery >Contactor in the up "Auto" position, but I don't understand how this switch >(in this wiring configuration) will provide 12 volts to the Engine Battery >contactor in the center "On" position. > >To test, I have connected Pin 1 to Pin 5. Then with a continuity test >function on my Auto Ranging Multimeter, I test for continuity between Pin >4 and Pin 2 with the switch in the center On position, and also in the up >Auto position. I only receive continuity in the up Auto position. the 2-10 switch is a progressive transfer device where with the switch full down connections are 2-3 and 5-6. When you move the switch to the mid position, only one side changes to connect 2-1. The other side is still 5-6. In the full up position, the other switch moves to connect 5-4 with 2-1 still connected. So with 1 and 5 connected externally, the 2-10 forms a single pole, three position switch with the "COM"mon at terminal 2. So, with the switch at OFF (full down) terminal 2 connects to 3 which is not connected, hence the battery contactor is OFF. Moving to the mid position connects 2-1, 5-6 thereby grounding the battery contactor coil and manually energizing it. In the full up position, connects 2-1, 5-4 which gives control of the battery contactor over to the Aux Battery Management Module. The ABMM will pull terminal 4 to ground if and only if the bus voltage is sustained above 13.0 volts, i.e. the alternator is running. If the alternator quits or is shut down for any reason, the bus voltage quickly drops below 13.0 volts and the ABMM immediatly and automatically opens the aux battery contactor thus isolating it from the rest of the system. In this condition, only those devices fed from the Aux Battery Bus receive aux battery power. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 04:44:37 PM PST US
    From: Frank Stringham <fstringham@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring
    I am now to the point of wiring up my dual p-mags per Z 13-8. I am not qui te sure of connection points P-Mag to the S700-2-10 switch. As viewed from the screw side of the P-Mag plug they are numbered 1 through 6 Left to righ t according to the P-Mag install manual. So my question is on the Z13-8 dia gram the green/orange/red /black would correspond to which numbers on P-mag install diagram. They have #1 black as the ground...#4 orange connects to your ignition ON/OFF (ground) p-lead switch.....#5 red connects to your mai n 12 volt aircraft buss through a dedicated circuit breaker (not provided) using 18 gauge wire. E-MAGs should use a 5-amp breaker, and P-MAGs should use a 3-amp switchable breaker.=946=94 green is a courtesy (optional) connection to provide a digital tack signal. So it appears to me the function/position of Z13-8 to P-Mag manual are the same the question in my mind is are the numbers the same????? as the water drips from behind my ear!!!!!!! Also Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential changes...... .......... Thanks inadvance for your help. Frank @ sgu RV7A light at the end of thwe tunnel...hopeing it isn't a bi g ole train!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:37:42 PM PST US
    From: "Michael T. Ice" <aurbo@ak.net>
    Subject: Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring
    Frank, I wouldn't expect any answers back from Bob on this question but here is the answer your looking for. #'s 1 & 4 are both grounds. The #1 grounds to the panel, The #4 is the ground (kill) for the mag. #5 is the red wire that goes to power. # 6 is the org wire that gores to the Tach. BUT: I would suggest you don't follow the Z-13 in wiring the E/P mags. The Emagair folks don't use that system why would you? I started to use the Z figures to wire the E/P mags and changed my mind. They are not wired the way the Emagair folks recommend if you wire them that way. But it was hard to divert from using the Z figures as I was attached to them But in this case the Z figure offers no advantage versus using the Emagair system and is in fact more confusing, at least to me. The Z figure uses the same parts count as the Emagair system and doesn't require a "hidden" switch to disable the mags. The Emagair system just uses on off toggles which are hard to screw up. Mike Ice baffles and cowling ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Stringham To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- I am now to the point of wiring up my dual p-mags per Z 13-8. I am not quite sure of connection points P-Mag to the S700-2-10 switch. As viewed from the screw side of the P-Mag plug they are numbered 1 through 6 Left to right according to the P-Mag install manual. So my question is on the Z13-8 diagram the green/orange/red /black would correspond to which numbers on P-mag install diagram. They have #1 black as the ground...#4 orange connects to your ignition ON/OFF (ground) p-lead switch.....#5 red connects to your main 12 volt aircraft buss through a dedicated circuit breaker (not provided) using 18 gauge wire. E-MAGs should use a 5-amp breaker, and P-MAGs should use a 3-amp switchable breaker.=946=94 green is a courtesy (optional) connection to provide a digital tack signal. So it appears to me the function/position of Z13-8 to P-Mag manual are the same the question in my mind is are the numbers the same????? as the water drips from behind my ear!!!!!!! Also Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential changes................ Thanks inadvance for your help. Frank @ sgu RV7A light at the end of thwe tunnel...hopeing it isn't a big ole train!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:15:02 PM PST US
    From: Todd Heffley <list@toddheffley.com>
    Subject: Re: Radio question
    Sir, I would like to offer a different idea to adding a second com to your airplane. While the reply that the KX125 has audio amp capability may be true - I have wired such an application my self - I would like to offer you an alternative. you might consider a hand held radio as a second com in a VFR installation. Here is my thinking. You can purchase a better radio for a lower price in the handheld versions. Just simple economics. More demand for handhelds, better competition in the market= more value. A second com that is wired to "a few switches" is subject to the same failures as the first com. Mic jack loose, stuck key line, depleted battery, Over-voltage. screw loose on the what-ever-bus..... For a second radio, a quality handheld, MOUNTED to the panel, with a REAL antenna, a fresh set of batteries (or two), and a mic and phone jack that are easy to get to, provides a more independent backup than a second installed radio. This idea is not helpful for a rusted heldheld radio with 5 loose cables, dead batteries, rolling around in a pick-up back at the airport. And lastly, I am the poor slob (Avionics Technician) that ends up troubleshooting "A few switches" with no prints. Just something to consider, sorry about the rant. todd


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:42:20 PM PST US
    From: "Mark Banus" <mbanus@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit
    Most Avionics items (Nav/Comm etc) come with a circuit that automatically dims the "lights" as it gets darker using a light sensor. I would like to employ such a device to auto dim the few lights in my C/P that are not already auto dimmed. I have searched for such a device with no luck. Does anyone know of such a device? TIA Mark Banus G SIIS FT N600


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:44:23 PM PST US
    From: Ralph Hoover <hooverra@verizon.net>
    Subject: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit
    Mark, This is what I used, Not flying yet so I don't have a long term impression although is seems well designed. I am not using the auto dim function although I could add it. http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/K11_Dimmer/index.htm -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:38:00 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring
    At 05:25 PM 12/9/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >---------- > > I am now to the point of wiring up my dual p-mags per Z 13-8. I am not > quite sure of connection points P-Mag to the S700-2-10 switch. As viewed > from the screw side of the P-Mag plug they are numbered 1 through 6 Left > to right according to the P-Mag install manual. So my question is on the > Z13-8 diagram the green/orange/red /black would correspond to which > numbers on P-mag install diagram. They have #1 black as the ground...#4 > orange connects to your ignition ON/OFF (ground) p-lead switch.....#5 red > connects to your main 12 volt aircraft buss through a dedicated circuit > breaker (not provided) using 18 gauge wire. E-MAGs should use a 5-amp > >breaker, and P-MAGs should use a 3-amp switchable breaker."6" green is a >courtesy (optional) connection to provide a digital tack signal. > > >So it appears to me the function/position of Z13-8 to P-Mag manual are the >same the question in my mind is are the numbers the same????? as the water >drips from behind my ear!!!!!!! > > >Also Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential >changes................ Figure Z-13/8 has been updated at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11L.pdf http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8m.dwg http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8m.dwg Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:54:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion?
    From: "n707sm" <mobrien02@comcast.net>
    Bob, Obviously I was confused. Makes perfect sense as described (of course!). Thank you for clearing that up :) Michael Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151410#151410




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