Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:34 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 (Lee Logan)
2. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 (BobsV35B@aol.com)
3. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 (Chuck Jensen)
4. 09:38 AM - Re: Wiring diagram needed for homebuilt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:56 AM - Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? (n707sm)
6. 01:16 PM - Re: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 04:44 PM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Frank Stringham)
8. 05:37 PM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Michael T. Ice)
9. 06:15 PM - Re: Radio question (Todd Heffley)
10. 06:42 PM - Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit (Mark Banus)
11. 07:44 PM - Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit (Ralph Hoover)
12. 09:38 PM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 10:54 PM - Re: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? (n707sm)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 |
I was doing a little refresher reading the other day and though I don't have
it in front of me right now, I think some of what I read was pertinent to
the "IFR instrument check" question. If I am remembering correctly, the FAA
IFR Instrument manual contains a discussion of the issue and points out that
you might reasonably assume that a certified WAAS GPS could be used as a
sole navigation reference under all conditions, but that such was not the
case. The manual pointed out that when you file to an IFR destination you
may find your only suitable alternate requires VOR/ILS and has no GPS or GPS
overlay approach. That would suggest that your VOR would then require a
current accuracy check to be used, otherwise you could not legally file the
flight.
Not trying further complicate this clearly transitional issue, but I
*think*it even said you had to have an operating VOR/ILS to even file
an alternate
of any kind.
Maybe someone can clear this up as well.
Regards,
Lee...
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 |
Good Morning Lee,
Having a VHF navigation capability will add flexibility, but it is not
required if you have a fully qualified TSO C146a box on board.
Obviously, if you have only the "Sole Means" GPS equipment available, you
cannot use, as an IFR alternate, an airport that has no GPS approach unless you
can arrive at the alternate in good VFR conditions.
There is NO need for any approach capability at the alternate if the weather
meets the following conditions.
>From the FARs:
-----------------------
(2) If no instrument approach procedure has been published in _part 97_
(http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/97-index.shtml) of this chapter and no special
instrument approach procedure has been issued by the Administrator to the
operator, for the alternate airport, the ceiling and visibility minima are
those allowing descent from the MEA, approach, and landing under basic VFR.
-----------------------
Unfortunately, an awful lot of so called experts tend to add their personal
operating procedures to the FARs when they tell others what to do. I suppose I
am guilty of that at times, but I sure try hard to really find out what the
rules are first.
As a good friend of mine has said. "If you do not know the rules, how ya
gonna cheat?"
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 12/9/2007 8:36:03 A.M. Central Standard Time,
leeloganster@gmail.com writes:
I was doing a little refresher reading the other day and though I don't have
it in front of me right now, I think some of what I read was pertinent to
the "IFR instrument check" question. If I am remembering correctly, the FAA
IFR Instrument manual contains a discussion of the issue and points out that
you might reasonably assume that a certified WAAS GPS could be used as a sole
navigation reference under all conditions, but that such was not the case.
The manual pointed out that when you file to an IFR destination you may find
your only suitable alternate requires VOR/ILS and has no GPS or GPS overlay
approach. That would suggest that your VOR would then require a current
accuracy check to be used, otherwise you could not legally file the flight.
Not trying further complicate this clearly transitional issue, but I think
it even said you had to have an operating VOR/ILS to even file an alternate of
any kind.
Maybe someone can clear this up as well.
Regards,
Lee...
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/08/07 |
Lee,
Yee gads, what kind of alternate is that that has only a VOR/ILS
approach and no GPS? And no, one of the advantages of the WAAS
certified GPS is you can file an alternate that still relies on a GPS
approach. With a non-certified GPS, the alternate must be with an
approach that does not rely on the GPS.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lee
Logan
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:31 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs -
12/08/07
I was doing a little refresher reading the other day and though I don't
have it in front of me right now, I think some of what I read was
pertinent to the "IFR instrument check" question. If I am remembering
correctly, the FAA IFR Instrument manual contains a discussion of the
issue and points out that you might reasonably assume that a certified
WAAS GPS could be used as a sole navigation reference under all
conditions, but that such was not the case. The manual pointed out that
when you file to an IFR destination you may find your only suitable
alternate requires VOR/ILS and has no GPS or GPS overlay approach. That
would suggest that your VOR would then require a current accuracy check
to be used, otherwise you could not legally file the flight.
Not trying further complicate this clearly transitional issue, but I
think it even said you had to have an operating VOR/ILS to even file an
alternate of any kind.
Maybe someone can clear this up as well.
Regards,
Lee...
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Wiring diagram needed for homebuilt |
David,
It occurs to me that there are any number of folks on the List
with the skills and perhaps the willingness to assist you. I will
suggest that anyone who would like to join David in getting his
project off the ground might write to him and negotiate. Keep
in mind that the data only needs to be clearly stated which
does NOT require tools like AutoCAD. The task would certainly
be easier if a reference designator list and bill of materials
were crafted in Excel.
Bottom line folks is that here's a free-market opportunity
for someone. What do you have to offer David that he is willing
to pay for where the outcome of the experience is pleasant
for both of you?
Further, consider that the materials you deliver need not be
the work product of you alone. I would hope that folks here
on the List are just as willing to help find answers to
your questions whether the end product goes on YOUR airplane
or somebody else's. I know I am.
Bob . . .
>>
>>Lad...I'm getting short on time building this Fairchild project
>>and to be honest, I just don't want to put the time into developing
>>a wiring system / diagram for my project. I'm going thru enough
>>learning curves as it is. Blasphemy to some you may say...but is
>>there anyone on the list that might be willing to build me up a
>>wiring system for a price? The system is relatively simple...air
>>start solenoid for starter, one 70 amp alt, 28 volts with two
>>step down converters for a few 14 volt requirements, some
>>VFR only instruments, strobe and position lights etc.
>>If interested, please advise off list to dstroud@storm.ca
>>Thanks..
>>
>>David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
>>C-FDWS Christavia
>>Fairchild 51 under construction
Message 5
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Subject: | Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? |
I'm confused about the wiring for the "Eng Bat (2-10)" switch depicted in
the Z-19/RB architecture diagram. Please help me to understand.
Here is what I read this switch wiring to be:
Pin 1: Connected to Pin 5
Pin 2: Feed to energize Engine Battery contactor
Pin 3: Open
Pin 4: 12 volts input
Pin 5: Connected to Pin 1
Pin 6: Ground
I can see how the switch will provide 12 volts to the Engine Battery
Contactor in the up "Auto" position, but I don't understand how this switch
(in this wiring configuration) will provide 12 volts to the Engine Battery
contactor in the center "On" position.
To test, I have connected Pin 1 to Pin 5. Then with a continuity test
function on my Auto Ranging Multimeter, I test for continuity between Pin 4 and
Pin 2 with the switch in the center On position, and also in the up Auto position.
I only receive continuity in the up Auto position.
What am I missing?
Thanks in advance,
Michael
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151331#151331
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Subject: | Re: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? |
At 09:53 AM 12/9/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I'm confused about the wiring for the "Eng Bat (2-10)" switch depicted in
>the Z-19/RB architecture diagram. Please help me to understand.
>Here is what I read this switch wiring to be:
>
>Pin 1: Connected to Pin 5
>Pin 2: Feed to energize Engine Battery contactor
>Pin 3: Open
>Pin 4: 12 volts input
>Pin 5: Connected to Pin 1
>Pin 6: Ground
>
>I can see how the switch will provide 12 volts to the Engine Battery
>Contactor in the up "Auto" position, but I don't understand how this switch
>(in this wiring configuration) will provide 12 volts to the Engine Battery
>contactor in the center "On" position.
>
>To test, I have connected Pin 1 to Pin 5. Then with a continuity test
>function on my Auto Ranging Multimeter, I test for continuity between Pin
>4 and Pin 2 with the switch in the center On position, and also in the up
>Auto position. I only receive continuity in the up Auto position.
the 2-10 switch is a progressive transfer device
where with the switch full down connections are
2-3 and 5-6. When you move the switch to the mid
position, only one side changes to connect 2-1. The
other side is still 5-6. In the full up position,
the other switch moves to connect 5-4 with 2-1
still connected. So with 1 and 5 connected externally,
the 2-10 forms a single pole, three position switch
with the "COM"mon at terminal 2.
So, with the switch at OFF (full down) terminal
2 connects to 3 which is not connected, hence the
battery contactor is OFF. Moving to the mid position
connects 2-1, 5-6 thereby grounding the battery
contactor coil and manually energizing it. In the
full up position, connects 2-1, 5-4 which gives
control of the battery contactor over to the Aux
Battery Management Module. The ABMM will pull
terminal 4 to ground if and only if the bus
voltage is sustained above 13.0 volts, i.e.
the alternator is running.
If the alternator quits or is shut down for any
reason, the bus voltage quickly drops below 13.0
volts and the ABMM immediatly and automatically
opens the aux battery contactor thus isolating it
from the rest of the system. In this condition,
only those devices fed from the Aux Battery Bus
receive aux battery power.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Z 13-8 P-mag wiring |
I am now to the point of wiring up my dual p-mags per Z 13-8. I am not qui
te sure of connection points P-Mag to the S700-2-10 switch. As viewed from
the screw side of the P-Mag plug they are numbered 1 through 6 Left to righ
t according to the P-Mag install manual. So my question is on the Z13-8 dia
gram the green/orange/red /black would correspond to which numbers on P-mag
install diagram. They have #1 black as the ground...#4 orange connects to
your ignition ON/OFF (ground) p-lead switch.....#5 red connects to your mai
n 12 volt aircraft buss through a dedicated circuit breaker (not provided)
using 18 gauge wire. E-MAGs should use a 5-amp
breaker, and P-MAGs should use a 3-amp switchable breaker.=946=94 green is
a courtesy (optional) connection to provide a digital tack signal.
So it appears to me the function/position of Z13-8 to P-Mag manual are the
same the question in my mind is are the numbers the same????? as the water
drips from behind my ear!!!!!!!
Also Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential changes......
..........
Thanks inadvance for your help.
Frank @ sgu RV7A light at the end of thwe tunnel...hopeing it isn't a bi
g ole train!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Subject: | Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring |
Frank,
I wouldn't expect any answers back from Bob on this question but here is
the answer your looking for.
#'s 1 & 4 are both grounds. The #1 grounds to the panel, The #4 is the
ground (kill) for the mag.
#5 is the red wire that goes to power.
# 6 is the org wire that gores to the Tach.
BUT: I would suggest you don't follow the Z-13 in wiring the E/P mags.
The Emagair folks don't use that system why would you?
I started to use the Z figures to wire the E/P mags and changed my mind.
They are not wired the way the Emagair folks recommend if you wire them
that way. But it was hard to divert from using the Z figures as I was
attached to them But in this case the Z figure offers no advantage
versus using the Emagair system and is in fact more confusing, at least
to me. The Z figure uses the same parts count as the Emagair system and
doesn't require a "hidden" switch to disable the mags. The Emagair
system just uses on off toggles which are hard to screw up.
Mike Ice
baffles and cowling
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Stringham
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
I am now to the point of wiring up my dual p-mags per Z 13-8. I am
not quite sure of connection points P-Mag to the S700-2-10 switch. As
viewed from the screw side of the P-Mag plug they are numbered 1 through
6 Left to right according to the P-Mag install manual. So my question is
on the Z13-8 diagram the green/orange/red /black would correspond to
which numbers on P-mag install diagram. They have #1 black as the
ground...#4 orange connects to your ignition ON/OFF (ground) p-lead
switch.....#5 red connects to your main 12 volt aircraft buss through a
dedicated circuit breaker (not provided) using 18 gauge wire. E-MAGs
should use a 5-amp
breaker, and P-MAGs should use a 3-amp switchable breaker.=946=94
green is a courtesy (optional) connection to provide a digital tack
signal.
So it appears to me the function/position of Z13-8 to P-Mag manual are
the same the question in my mind is are the numbers the same????? as the
water drips from behind my ear!!!!!!!
Also Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential
changes................
Thanks inadvance for your help.
Frank @ sgu RV7A light at the end of thwe tunnel...hopeing it isn't
a big ole train!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Radio question |
Sir,
I would like to offer a different idea to adding a second com to your
airplane.
While the reply that the KX125 has audio amp capability may be true -
I have wired such an application my self - I would like to offer you
an alternative.
you might consider a hand held radio as a second com in a VFR installation.
Here is my thinking.
You can purchase a better radio for a lower price in the handheld
versions. Just simple economics. More demand for handhelds, better
competition in the market= more value.
A second com that is wired to "a few switches" is subject to the same
failures as the first com. Mic jack loose, stuck key line, depleted
battery, Over-voltage. screw loose on the what-ever-bus.....
For a second radio, a quality handheld, MOUNTED to the panel, with a
REAL antenna, a fresh set of batteries (or two), and a mic and phone
jack that are easy to get to, provides a more independent backup than
a second installed radio.
This idea is not helpful for a rusted heldheld radio with 5 loose
cables, dead batteries, rolling around in a pick-up back at the
airport.
And lastly, I am the poor slob (Avionics Technician) that ends up
troubleshooting "A few switches" with no prints.
Just something to consider, sorry about the rant.
todd
Message 10
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Subject: | Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit |
Most Avionics items (Nav/Comm etc) come with a circuit that
automatically dims the "lights" as it gets darker using a light sensor.
I would like to employ such a device to auto dim the few lights in my
C/P that are not already auto dimmed. I have searched for such a device
with no luck. Does anyone know of such a device?
TIA
Mark Banus
G SIIS FT
N600
Message 11
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Subject: | Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit |
Mark,
This is what I used, Not flying yet so I don't have a long term
impression although is seems well designed. I am not using the auto dim
function although I could add it.
http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/K11_Dimmer/index.htm
--
Ralph C. Hoover
RV7A
hooverra at verizon dot net
Message 12
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Subject: | Z 13-8 P-mag wiring |
At 05:25 PM 12/9/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>----------
>
> I am now to the point of wiring up my dual p-mags per Z 13-8. I am not
> quite sure of connection points P-Mag to the S700-2-10 switch. As viewed
> from the screw side of the P-Mag plug they are numbered 1 through 6 Left
> to right according to the P-Mag install manual. So my question is on the
> Z13-8 diagram the green/orange/red /black would correspond to which
> numbers on P-mag install diagram. They have #1 black as the ground...#4
> orange connects to your ignition ON/OFF (ground) p-lead switch.....#5 red
> connects to your main 12 volt aircraft buss through a dedicated circuit
> breaker (not provided) using 18 gauge wire. E-MAGs should use a 5-amp
>
>breaker, and P-MAGs should use a 3-amp switchable breaker."6" green is a
>courtesy (optional) connection to provide a digital tack signal.
>
>
>So it appears to me the function/position of Z13-8 to P-Mag manual are the
>same the question in my mind is are the numbers the same????? as the water
>drips from behind my ear!!!!!!!
>
>
>Also Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential
>changes................
Figure Z-13/8 has been updated at:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11L.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8m.dwg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8m.dwg
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Z-19/RB Eng Bat (2-10) switch unused in On postion? |
Bob,
Obviously I was confused. Makes perfect sense as described (of course!).
Thank you for clearing that up
:)
Michael
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151410#151410
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