---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/10/07: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:45 AM - Re: Radio question (Mike) 2. 06:05 AM - Z-19 & Z-19/RB (Sam Hoskins) 3. 06:47 AM - Joint use of two power converters (david stroud) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Frank Stringham) 5. 06:56 AM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Frank Stringham) 6. 07:05 AM - 20 Amp Solid State Relay usage (Rouault, Jason (Security Management)) 7. 07:16 AM - Questions Re: Z19 () 8. 07:38 AM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 07:38 AM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 07:54 AM - Bluetooth for the com radio (paul wilson) 11. 08:21 AM - Re: Questions Re: Z19 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 08:55 AM - Re: 20 Amp Solid State Relay usage (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 09:08 AM - Re: Joint use of two power converters (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 09:21 AM - Re: Bluetooth for the com radio () 15. 10:08 AM - Re: Joint use of two power converters (Matt Prather) 16. 10:08 AM - Re: Bluetooth for the com radio (Ernest Christley) 17. 10:19 AM - Re: Z-19 & Z-19/RB (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 10:25 AM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Bill Boyd) 19. 11:16 AM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Frank Stringham) 20. 11:21 AM - Re: Bluetooth for the com radio (Steve Sampson) 21. 11:37 AM - Re: Joint use of two power converters (Matt Prather) 22. 11:56 AM - Re: Bluetooth for the com radio (rd2@evenlink.com) 23. 12:34 PM - Re: Joint use of two power converters (david stroud) 24. 01:37 PM - Re: 20 Amp Solid State Relay usage (Scott R. Shook) 25. 02:20 PM - Re: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit () 26. 05:45 PM - Switch Rating (FLAGSTONE) 27. 05:48 PM - Re: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit (Mark Banus) 28. 06:34 PM - Re: Bluetooth for the com radio (paul wilson) 29. 06:34 PM - Re: Bluetooth for the com radio (paul wilson) 30. 06:34 PM - Re: Bluetooth for the com radio (paul wilson) 31. 07:54 PM - Re: Questions Re: Z19 (Allen Fulmer) 32. 08:36 PM - Over voltage with Z13/8 (Jeff Page) 33. 08:44 PM - Re: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 34. 09:06 PM - Re: Joint use of two power converters (Richard E. Tasker) 35. 09:34 PM - Re: Switch Rating (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 36. 10:06 PM - Re: Switch Rating (clarification of syntax) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:12 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio question The only problem I see is the lower power output of the handheld (less then 1 watt). If you're flying an airplane that flies slow and you normally call the airport at 5-15 miles out, it should be fine. But I find that trying to make transmissions at distances of more then 15 miles within 4000 feet of the ground are hit and miss. Just a thought! Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Heffley Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio question Sir, I would like to offer a different idea to adding a second com to your airplane. While the reply that the KX125 has audio amp capability may be true - I have wired such an application my self - I would like to offer you an alternative. you might consider a hand held radio as a second com in a VFR installation. Here is my thinking. You can purchase a better radio for a lower price in the handheld versions. Just simple economics. More demand for handhelds, better competition in the market= more value. A second com that is wired to "a few switches" is subject to the same failures as the first com. Mic jack loose, stuck key line, depleted battery, Over-voltage. screw loose on the what-ever-bus..... For a second radio, a quality handheld, MOUNTED to the panel, with a REAL antenna, a fresh set of batteries (or two), and a mic and phone jack that are easy to get to, provides a more independent backup than a second installed radio. This idea is not helpful for a rusted heldheld radio with 5 loose cables, dead batteries, rolling around in a pick-up back at the airport. And lastly, I am the poor slob (Avionics Technician) that ends up troubleshooting "A few switches" with no prints. Just something to consider, sorry about the rant. todd 10/2/2007 11:10 AM 10/2/2007 11:10 AM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:44 AM PST US From: "Sam Hoskins" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 & Z-19/RB I am making my version of Z-19. As far as I can tell, the only difference in the RB version is that it has different wire sizes for the starter. Is this correct? I don't want to miss anything. Thanks. Sam ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:49 AM PST US From: "david stroud" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Joint use of two power converters Lads, thanks to Bob's lead to existing diagrams and timely input from several listers, I've decided to forge ahead with my own wiring diagram/system. Due to equipment already on hand, I will be running 28v for most requirements and power down to 14v via two Collins PWC 150 power converters to run the radio, transponder and turn coordinator. These converters take in 28 v and output 14v 5amp and 2 amps each. There's no handy way to mount a fuse between their outputs and the end user and I do have two very nice auto style fuse holders on hand that I was intending to use as a 28v and 14v bus bar. The + input on these fuse holders is a single item leading to all + sides of the fuses. Therefore, the question is, does anyone know if both outputs of both converters can be "ganged together" as a common + input to the 14v fuse holder/bus and collectively provide a 14 amp service? This would simplify fusing the radio, tpdr and turn coordinator and maybe even provide service for a spare. I dragged the net but found no info on ganging together the outputs of these converters. Thanks. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada C-FDWS Christavia Fairchild 51 under construction ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:46 AM PST US From: Frank Stringham Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring Mike Thanks for the info........ Frank @ SGU RV7A.................NDY................but real close!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! tric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiringTo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Frank, I wouldn't expect any answers back from Bob on this question but here is th e answer your looking for. #'s 1 & 4 are both grounds. The #1 grounds to the panel, The #4 is the grou nd (kill) for the mag. #5 is the red wire that goes to power. # 6 is the org wire that gores to the Tach. BUT: I would suggest you don't follow the Z-13 in wiring the E/P mags. The Emagair folks don't use that system why would you? I started to use the Z figures to wire the E/P mags and changed my mind. Th ey are not wired the way the Emagair folks recommend if you wire them that way. But it was hard to divert from using the Z figures as I was attached t o them But in this case the Z figure offers no advantage versus using the E magair system and is in fact more confusing, at least to me. The Z figure u ses the same parts count as the Emagair system and doesn't require a "hidde n" switch to disable the mags. The Emagair system just uses on off toggles which are hard to screw up. Mike Ice baffles and cowling ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Stringham Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring I am now to the point of wiring up my dual p-mags per Z 13-8. I am not qui te sure of connection points P-Mag to the S700-2-10 switch. As viewed from the screw side of the P-Mag plug they are numbered 1 through 6 Left to righ t according to the P-Mag install manual. So my question is on the Z13-8 dia gram the green/orange/red /black would correspond to which numbers on P-mag install diagram. They have #1 black as the ground...#4 orange connects to your ignition ON/OFF (ground) p-lead switch.....#5 red connects to your mai n 12 volt aircraft buss through a dedicated circuit breaker (not provided) using 18 gauge wire. E-MAGs should use a 5-amp breaker, and P-MAGs should use a 3-amp switchable breaker.=946=94 green is a courtesy (optional) connection to provide a digital tack signal. So it appears to me the function/position of Z13-8 to P-Mag manual are the same the question in my mind is are the numbers the same????? as the water drips from behind my ear!!!!!!! Also Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential changes...... .......... Thanks inadvance for your help. Frank @ sgu RV7A light at the end of thwe tunnel...hopeing it isn't a bi g ole train!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:10 AM PST US From: Frank Stringham Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring Thanks Bob........it looks like a pretty easy wiring exchange from the old 13/8 to the now acceptable scheme......Thanks for all your efforts in behal f of we DIY guys and gals!!!!!!! Frank @ SGU RV7A ...........NDY.........BUT REAL CLOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:35:32 -0600> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > From: nuckolls.bob@cox.net> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag " > > At 05:25 PM 12/9/2007 -0700, you wrote:> > > > > > > >> >----------> >> > I am now to the point of wiring up my dual p-mag s per Z 13-8. I am not > > quite sure of connection points P-Mag to the S70 0-2-10 switch. As viewed > > from the screw side of the P-Mag plug they are numbered 1 through 6 Left > > to right according to the P-Mag install manu al. So my question is on the > > Z13-8 diagram the green/orange/red /black would correspond to which > > numbers on P-mag install diagram. They have # 1 black as the ground...#4 > > orange connects to your ignition ON/OFF (gro und) p-lead switch.....#5 red > > connects to your main 12 volt aircraft bu ss through a dedicated circuit > > breaker (not provided) using 18 gauge wi re. E-MAGs should use a 5-amp> >> >breaker, and P-MAGs should use a 3-amp s witchable breaker."6" green is a > >courtesy (optional) connection to provi de a digital tack signal.> >> >> >> >So it appears to me the function/posit ion of Z13-8 to P-Mag manual are the > >same the question in my mind is are the numbers the same????? as the water > >drips from behind my ear!!!!!!!> >> >> >> >Also Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential > > changes................> > > Figure Z-13/8 has been updated at:> > http://a eroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11L.pdf> > http://www.aeroelectric.com /PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8m.dwg> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/A CAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8m.dwg> > Bob . . .> > -------------------------- --------------)> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )> ( a thing wrong, g ives it a superficial )> ( appearance of being right . . . )> ( )> ( -Thoma ===> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:14 AM PST US From: "Rouault, Jason (Security Management)" Subject: AeroElectric-List: 20 Amp Solid State Relay usage Bob, I am interested in the new 20 amp solid state relay shown on the Aeroelectr ic site. Here is my application: The switches I will be using in my panel will be Honeywell AML34 series. T hese are 15 amp switches offered in single pole and dual pole but with only 2 positions. These will work great for the majority of my needs, but I do want a couple 3 position switches for the fuel pump (off-on-auto) and land ing lights (off-on-pulse). Honeywell offers a AML24 series (same physical size and looks as the 34) switch that comes with 3 positions, however, the amp rating is less than 5 amps. I have not been able to get good documenta tion one the AML24 switch rating, but what I have seen is anywhere from 1 t o 3 amps. So, I was wondering if using this switch with the 20 amp relay w ould be a good match for what I want to achieve? Also, does a single relay have the ability to work with more than one switch? Thanks in advance for your help, Jason ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:07 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Questions re: Z19 From: Bob, 1. What type of relay is depicted for the endurance bus alternate feed? Does B & C carry? 2. Since Z19 is for an electrically dependent engine, it would be great to see the required ignition power included. 3. Logic question. Why do you associate the main battery bus with the aux/secondary power switch and the engine/aux battery bus with the primary power switch? Somehow that logic seems awkward. 4. If one has independent control over FP #2, why not include the same control over FP#1? Ok, #2 is supposed to be a backup, but if I want/need to isolate #1, I would need to switch off both primary and secondary/aux power thus loosing ecu power. 5. Again, adding the appropriate ignition power to the design changes things as there can be no possibility for isolating power to the ignition in flight (without restarting in flight). This would apply not only to Subaru's but many other Aeromotive brands. Also, Do any of your diagrams provide a design for including a clearance switch? Thanks ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:40 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring >>Bob is there any new info on the p-mag wiring potential >>changes................ > > > Figure Z-13/8 has been updated at: > >http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11L.pdf > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8m.dwg > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8m.dwg > > Seems that 13/8 needed more attention than I was thinking a midnight last night. Z-13/8 has been further refined and the revision letter has rolled to "N". Get the corrected drawings at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z13-8N.dwg http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z13-8N.pdf Appendix Z was fixed also but the revision letter was NOT rolled. If anyone downloaded Revision "L" before reading this posting, I'll suggest that you do it again to get the latest version. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring At 07:53 AM 12/10/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks Bob........it looks like a pretty easy wiring exchange from the old >13/8 to the now acceptable scheme......Thanks for all your efforts in >behalf of we DIY guys and gals!!!!!!! > >Frank @ SGU RV7A ...........NDY.........BUT REAL CLOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My pleasure sir. But know that last night's posting was pre-mature. Too many beers with the chili! Go back and get the latest drawings posted as of a few minutes ago. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:36 AM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio Anybody know of a gadget for the com radio to allow use of a bluetooth ear piece? Sure, an intercom and headset is an option, but I like the idea on just an earpiece. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Questions re: Z19 At 10:14 AM 12/10/2007 -0500, you wrote: >Bob, > > >1. What type of relay is depicted for the endurance bus alternate feed? >Does B & C carry? Yes, S704-1. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Relays/s704-1l.jpg I'll have a solid state version on the website shortly http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/9030s.jpg >2. Since Z19 is for an electrically dependent engine, it would be great to >see the required ignition power included. I'm not sure what data I was given when that Z-figure was crafted. I'm thinking that the redundant ignition (if any) was paired with the redundant fuel management systems. If you've data that suggests expanded attention for the ignition system(s), I'd be pleased to add the coverage. >3. Logic question. Why do you associate the main battery bus with the >aux/secondary power switch and the engine/aux battery bus with the primary >power switch? Somehow that logic seems awkward. Call them anything you wish. The goal is to eliminate single points of failure for the engine. >4. If one has independent control over FP #2, why not include the same >control over FP#1? Ok, #2 is supposed to be a backup, but if I want/need >to isolate #1, I would need to switch off both primary and secondary/aux >power thus loosing ecu power. #2 is a backup for #1. The goal was to offer the simplest and most independent architecture to back up a rare but important failure. Obviously, one could put single, independent switches on everything . . . if that more closely meets your design goals, my all means. >5. Again, adding the appropriate ignition power to the design changes >things as there can be no possibility for isolating power to the ignition >in flight (without restarting in flight). > >This would apply not only to Subaru's but many other Aeromotive brands. This drawing was crafted based on a specific set of installation instructions without attempting to do a one-size-fits-all approach. If you have some suggestions for a more generic approach, I'll suggest you sketch it out, scan it and post to the List. The Z-figures are not intended to be the gospel according to Bob N but a compilation of the best we know how to do for a broad spectrum of tasks and data sources. >Also, >Do any of your diagrams provide a design for including a clearance switch? Talking about a ATC clearance? This is usually taken care of by closing the e-bus alternate feed switch and powering up only the limited number of goodies on that bus . . . which generally includes at least one comm transceiver. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 20 Amp Solid State Relay usage At 02:55 PM 12/10/2007 +0000, you wrote: >Bob, > > >I am interested in the new 20 amp solid state relay shown on the >Aeroelectric site. Here is my application: > > >The switches I will be using in my panel will be Honeywell AML34 >series. These are 15 amp switches offered in single pole and dual pole >but with only 2 positions. These will work great for the majority of my >needs, but I do want a couple 3 position switches for the fuel pump >(off-on-auto) and landing lights (off-on-pulse). Honeywell offers a AML24 >series (same physical size and looks as the 34) switch that comes with 3 >positions, however, the amp rating is less than 5 amps. I have not been >able to get good documentation one the AML24 switch rating, but what I >have seen is anywhere from 1 to 3 amps. Yes, I believe those are much more limited . . . and yes, the AEC9030 was crafted specifically for "boosting" those nifty but somewhat limited switches. > So, I was wondering if using this switch with the 20 amp relay would be > a good match for what I want to achieve? I believe so. > Also, does a single relay have the ability to work with more than one > switch? Not sure what you're asking. What's the application? Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:26 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Joint use of two power converters At 09:45 AM 12/10/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >Lads, thanks to Bob's lead to existing diagrams and timely input >from several listers, I've decided to forge ahead with my own >wiring diagram/system. > >Due to equipment already on hand, I will be running 28v for most >requirements and power down to 14v via two Collins PWC 150 >power converters to run the radio, transponder and turn coordinator. >These converters take in 28 v and output 14v 5amp and 2 amps >each. There's no handy way to mount a fuse between their outputs >and the end user and I do have two very nice auto style fuse holders >on hand that I was intending to use as a 28v and 14v bus bar. The >+ input on these fuse holders is a single item leading to all + sides >of the fuses. Therefore, the question is, does anyone know if both >outputs of both converters can be "ganged together" as a common >+ input to the 14v fuse holder/bus and collectively provide a 14 amp >service? This would simplify fusing the radio, tpdr and turn coordinator >and maybe even provide service for a spare. > >I dragged the net but found no info on ganging together the outputs of >these converters. What is the make and part number of these converters. Depending on manufacturer's recommendations, they may not run well in parallel. Also, consider that any single converter is a single point of failure for all the devices that depend on its functionality. You might want to consider a single converter for each device. Let's see what devices you have in hand at the moment and go from there. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:57 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio From: Paul, Quick answer - I have not. I agree, that would be very nice. Unfortunately store brand earpieces will never filter out the noise in a typical cockpit. Additionally and good bit of turbulence would send an earpiece flying. My father always looses his hearing aid when we hit the bumps. What we need is the blue tooth headset. Don't worry, Bose or somebody like them is probably working on it. Unfortunately a Bose will also need a Garmim/PMI to comply. I'm also quite sure both of them are working on a blue tooth audio panel. How much you wanna bet one of these turns up at Oshkosh next year? If I could have the functionality of my BMW panel in my airplane (at 1/3 the price of the old stuff I'm using in the airplane) I'd be ecstatic. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:21 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio Anybody know of a gadget for the com radio to allow use of a bluetooth ear piece? Sure, an intercom and headset is an option, but I like the idea on just an earpiece. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Joint use of two power converters From: "Matt Prather" Here's a high level description: http://www.seaerospace.com/collins/pwc150.htm Matt- > > > At 09:45 AM 12/10/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> >>Lads, thanks to Bob's lead to existing diagrams and timely input >>from several listers, I've decided to forge ahead with my own >>wiring diagram/system. >> >>Due to equipment already on hand, I will be running 28v for most >>requirements and power down to 14v via two Collins PWC 150 >>power converters to run the radio, transponder and turn coordinator. >>These converters take in 28 v and output 14v 5amp and 2 amps >>each. There's no handy way to mount a fuse between their outputs >>and the end user and I do have two very nice auto style fuse holders >>on hand that I was intending to use as a 28v and 14v bus bar. The >>+ input on these fuse holders is a single item leading to all + sides >>of the fuses. Therefore, the question is, does anyone know if both >>outputs of both converters can be "ganged together" as a common >>+ input to the 14v fuse holder/bus and collectively provide a 14 amp >>service? This would simplify fusing the radio, tpdr and turn coordinator >>and maybe even provide service for a spare. >> >>I dragged the net but found no info on ganging together the outputs of >>these converters. > > What is the make and part number of these converters. Depending > on manufacturer's recommendations, they may not run well in > parallel. Also, consider that any single converter is a single > point of failure for all the devices that depend on its functionality. > > You might want to consider a single converter for each device. > Let's see what devices you have in hand at the moment and > go from there. > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:36 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio paul wilson wrote: > > Anybody know of a gadget for the com radio to allow use of a bluetooth > ear piece? > Sure, an intercom and headset is an option, but I like the idea on > just an earpiece. > Thanks, Paul > I seriously doubt it, and I've not heard of any products that are specifically built for aviation...HOWEVER, A quick search turned up the Logitech headset. Nothing special about it, just the first thing to turn up in a Google search. It is composed of a set of headphones and a small box that plugs into the sound source. It will possibly work out of the box, connected straight to the radio. It might require an impedance matching circuit. Either way, it would be a one day , $100 experiment. Give it a try, and be a pioneer. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:38 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-19 & Z-19/RB At 08:00 AM 12/10/2007 -0600, you wrote: >I am making my version of Z-19. As far as I can tell, the only difference >in the RB version is that it has different wire sizes for the starter. Is >this correct? I don't want to miss anything. > >Thanks. > >Sam Generally, yes. When you remotely mount the batteries the increased wire size goes along with relocation of batteries, battery busses, and battery contactors. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:23 AM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring I think you've reversed the functionality of the E- and P- mags, Bob. P is the self-powering type, and E is the externally-powered-only model, so they appear to be reversed on Z-13/8 labels. That's the way I remember it, anyway. -Bill B On Dec 10, 2007 10:37 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > At 07:53 AM 12/10/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > >Thanks Bob........it looks like a pretty easy wiring exchange from the > old > >13/8 to the now acceptable scheme......Thanks for all your efforts in > >behalf of we DIY guys and gals!!!!!!! > > > >Frank @ SGU RV7A ...........NDY.........BUT REAL CLOSE > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > My pleasure sir. But know that last night's posting > was pre-mature. Too many beers with the chili! > > Go back and get the latest drawings posted as of a > few minutes ago. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:02 AM PST US From: Frank Stringham Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring Bob To much Beer with Chili could make the mind a bit fuzzy I would suspect.... ...I was given a wake up call at 2:00 AM sunday morning to bail my younges t child (26 going on 15) out of the county pokkie for DUI/Speeding. Bookin g Sarg's said he isn't drunk.........so why the citation. It is a great way to keep those real Bad ?????? Saint George Kids out of Hurricane City late at night. Ya and it will cost about $1000.00 to get the auto out of impoun d/fight the DUI in court/and maybe my bail for killing the kid!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So lets put this little mistake in perspective. Bob, wiring my airplane, choosing instruments, wiring materials, and help w ith my crazy ????????????????? was given by you....most times gently someti mes with a douse of Hey Frank wake up and smell the coffee!!! So again THAN KS Frank @ SGU RV7A .....NDY........But CLOSE > Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:37:15 -0600> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.co m> From: nuckolls.bob@cox.net> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag I" > > At 07:53 AM 12/10/2007 -0700, you wrote:> > >T hanks Bob........it looks like a pretty easy wiring exchange from the old > >13/8 to the now acceptable scheme......Thanks for all your efforts in > > behalf of we DIY guys and gals!!!!!!!> >> >Frank @ SGU RV7A ...........NDY. ........BUT REAL CLOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!> > My pleasure sir. But know that last night's posting> was pre-mature. Too many beers with the chili!> > Go back and get the latest drawings posted as of a> few minutes ago.> > Bob . ========> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:34 AM PST US From: "Steve Sampson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio Is this what you want? http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/17/loprestis-clearblue-bluetooth-headset-for-pilots-roger-roger/ I thought a major company would have announced by now, but I dont think it has happened. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Joint use of two power converters From: "Matt Prather" Follow-on question: Would the outputs of these converters need to be fused? Since they are regulated supplies, I'd guess that they probably have some sort of short circuit protection built in. Worst case, if you fault the output, you'll only get something not too much over the rated current. It's not like faulting a connection to a battery. Regards, Matt- > > > At 09:45 AM 12/10/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> >>Lads, thanks to Bob's lead to existing diagrams and timely input >>from several listers, I've decided to forge ahead with my own >>wiring diagram/system. >> >>Due to equipment already on hand, I will be running 28v for most >>requirements and power down to 14v via two Collins PWC 150 >>power converters to run the radio, transponder and turn coordinator. >>These converters take in 28 v and output 14v 5amp and 2 amps >>each. There's no handy way to mount a fuse between their outputs >>and the end user and I do have two very nice auto style fuse holders >>on hand that I was intending to use as a 28v and 14v bus bar. The >>+ input on these fuse holders is a single item leading to all + sides >>of the fuses. Therefore, the question is, does anyone know if both >>outputs of both converters can be "ganged together" as a common >>+ input to the 14v fuse holder/bus and collectively provide a 14 amp >>service? This would simplify fusing the radio, tpdr and turn coordinator >>and maybe even provide service for a spare. >> >>I dragged the net but found no info on ganging together the outputs of >>these converters. > > What is the make and part number of these converters. Depending > on manufacturer's recommendations, they may not run well in > parallel. Also, consider that any single converter is a single > point of failure for all the devices that depend on its functionality. > > You might want to consider a single converter for each device. > Let's see what devices you have in hand at the moment and > go from there. > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:29 AM PST US From: rd2@evenlink.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Bluetooth for the com radio I think Paul's question referred to a Bluetooth transceiver for the radio. There are such gadgets (to bluetooth one's iPod e.g.), but they are bulkier than an earpiece. As for Bluetooth headsets - Lightspeed already makes one - Zulu. See http://www.anrheadsets.com/ Aircraftspruce caries them, King Schools does too. Haven't tried them yet though. As long as an accessory is removable and not an integral part (headsets, handhelds etc.) I am not sure a PMA is needed. BTW, Bose's current X does not have a phone/music input and that eliminates it from my list of choices. (Admittedly it is the most comfortable headsets I have tried, but my personal preference is for more functionality.) 2c Rumen do not archive _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from longg@pjm.com; Date: 11:49 AM 12/10/2007 -0500) ________________________________________________________________ Paul, Quick answer - I have not. I agree, that would be very nice. Unfortunately store brand earpieces will never filter out the noise in a typical cockpit. Additionally and good bit of turbulence would send an earpiece flying. My father always looses his hearing aid when we hit the bumps. What we need is the blue tooth headset. Don't worry, Bose or somebody like them is probably working on it. Unfortunately a Bose will also need a Garmim/PMI to comply. I'm also quite sure both of them are working on a blue tooth audio panel. How much you wanna bet one of these turns up at Oshkosh next year? If I could have the functionality of my BMW panel in my airplane (at 1/3 the price of the old stuff I'm using in the airplane) I'd be ecstatic. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:21 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio Anybody know of a gadget for the com radio to allow use of a bluetooth ear piece? Sure, an intercom and headset is an option, but I like the idea on just an earpiece. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:10 PM PST US From: "david stroud" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Joint use of two power converters Thank you, Bob. The converters are Collins PWC-150's, both are model 622-2093-001's, serials 8590 and 20661 both with mods 1 &2. The devices to run are a King KY97A radio, a Narco AT150 transponder and an Electric Gyro Corp turn and slip indicator. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada C-FDWS Christavia Fairchild 51 under construction ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Joint use of two power converters > > At 09:45 AM 12/10/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >Lads, thanks to Bob's lead to existing diagrams and timely input > >from several listers, I've decided to forge ahead with my own > >wiring diagram/system. > > > >Due to equipment already on hand, I will be running 28v for most > >requirements and power down to 14v via two Collins PWC 150 > >power converters to run the radio, transponder and turn coordinator. > >These converters take in 28 v and output 14v 5amp and 2 amps > >each. There's no handy way to mount a fuse between their outputs > >and the end user and I do have two very nice auto style fuse holders > >on hand that I was intending to use as a 28v and 14v bus bar. The > >+ input on these fuse holders is a single item leading to all + sides > >of the fuses. Therefore, the question is, does anyone know if both > >outputs of both converters can be "ganged together" as a common > >+ input to the 14v fuse holder/bus and collectively provide a 14 amp > >service? This would simplify fusing the radio, tpdr and turn coordinator > >and maybe even provide service for a spare. > > > >I dragged the net but found no info on ganging together the outputs of > >these converters. > > What is the make and part number of these converters. Depending > on manufacturer's recommendations, they may not run well in > parallel. Also, consider that any single converter is a single > point of failure for all the devices that depend on its functionality. > > You might want to consider a single converter for each device. > Let's see what devices you have in hand at the moment and > go from there. > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:46 PM PST US From: "Scott R. Shook" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 20 Amp Solid State Relay usage I too am using the AML34 and AML24 switches in my panel. Pacific Coast Avionics recommended using the Potter Brumfield VF4-65F11 relays for higher loads. Any thoughts on these relays Bob? Are they reliable enough? Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, 10 December, 2007 09:14 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 20 Amp Solid State Relay usage At 02:55 PM 12/10/2007 +0000, you wrote: >Bob, > > >I am interested in the new 20 amp solid state relay shown on the >Aeroelectric site. Here is my application: > > >The switches I will be using in my panel will be Honeywell AML34 >series. These are 15 amp switches offered in single pole and dual pole >but with only 2 positions. These will work great for the majority of my >needs, but I do want a couple 3 position switches for the fuel pump >(off-on-auto) and landing lights (off-on-pulse). Honeywell offers a AML24 >series (same physical size and looks as the 34) switch that comes with 3 >positions, however, the amp rating is less than 5 amps. I have not been >able to get good documentation one the AML24 switch rating, but what I >have seen is anywhere from 1 to 3 amps. Yes, I believe those are much more limited . . . and yes, the AEC9030 was crafted specifically for "boosting" those nifty but somewhat limited switches. > So, I was wondering if using this switch with the 20 amp relay would be > a good match for what I want to achieve? I believe so. > Also, does a single relay have the ability to work with more than one > switch? Not sure what you're asking. What's the application? Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:53 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit Manual light control is the way to go 90% of the time. Technically its easy, practically not so much. In a Boeing 767 and 757 most cockpit lights (all but one or two) are adjusted manually. The CDU (Control Display Unit, a green monochromatic alpha/numeric CRT/keyboard down low in the isle-stand) has a photocell. It also has a manual light adjust. Almost everything or area on the overhead or panel has manual light control. There are probably 20 rheostats to adjust the lights (manually). In general they are set and remain unchanged from pilot to pilot. Some pilots will turn them down during the day. The problem with a PHOTOCELL's in the cockpit of an airplane is where do you put the photocell? You almost need one for each device due to local light. Most important question is DO YOU NEED IT? Really we fly during the day or night. You set your lights as need and fly. Sometimes when IFR, night, low visibility approach, I might turn down cockpit lights, EFIS brightness, just to make sure my eyes are dark adapted and to see the approach lights. I don't know if it helps but I do that. If there is lightning I might turn them ALL to high. In fact some airplanes have a swtich that turns ALL lights to high for that reason. The high lights reflect off the windscreen and protect the eyes somewhat A photocell will not help. MANUAL control is the way to go in my opinion. The reason the little LED displays on avionics have photocells is they are read during the day. Most EFIS or what ever is usually full bright during the day. At night you turn them down. The EFFORT to make that small adjustment from day to night is pretty small. How much do you fly at night a year? If you want to learn how to make a photocell switch or dimmer there are cool electronic hobby kits that you can make. Google it. Personally I still have a 200 in ONE electronic kits that I play around with different project ideas, at least to start. I also have a prototype board, but those "kids" electronic kits are fun for kids and adults. Usually they all include a photocell project or five. From there you can add on to an existing dimmer or make your own photocell dimmer, if you decide to go that way. It sounds like you want to learn how it work. They also have stand alone electronic kits, such as photo cell dimmers and switches. Even if you don't do it, its fun to make those little kits. They George >From: "Mark Banus" >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit > >Most Avionics items (Nav/Comm etc) come with a circuit that >automatically dims the "lights" as it gets darker using a light sensor. > >I would like to employ such a device to auto dim the few lights in my >C/P that are not already auto dimmed. I have searched for such a >device with no luck. Does anyone know of such a device? > >TIA Mark Banus G SIIS FT --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:28 PM PST US From: "FLAGSTONE" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch Rating Hi: I recently joined this group cuz I'm working on an aviation project and have been reading the Aeroconnection manual. In past non aviation projects I've bought switches from Radio Shack etc that I've used in 12v systems. The rating on some of these switches only gave the AC rating say 15A.125VAC. I always assumed that if it was good for 15amps at 125v it was ok for the same amps at 12v. However, I'm trying to understand how all this works now. So the question is, can you convert that AC rating to DC and if so, how. I read in the manual where there was a resistive, inductive and tungsten rating for switches but not a AC - DC conversion. I also saw that V x A = W but that would give the switch about a 156A rating which doesn't sound right. Sorry if this is a stupid question or if its in the manual someplace and I've missed it. Mark ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:28 PM PST US From: "Mark Banus" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit Thanks guys, I now have the answer for either way I decide to go Re: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit From: gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com Date: Mon Dec 10 - 2:20 PM Manual light control is the way to go 90% of the time. Technically its easy, practically not so much. In a Boeing 767 and 757 most cockpit lights (all but one or two) are adjusted manually. The CDU (Control Display Unit, a green monochromatic alpha/numeric CRT/keyboard down low in the isle-stand) has a photocell. It also has a manual light adjust. Almost everything or area on the overhead or panel has manual light control. There are probably 20 rheostats to adjust the lights (manually). In general they are set and remain unchanged from pilot to pilot. Some pilots will turn them down during the day. The problem with a PHOTOCELL's in the cockpit of an airplane is where do you put the photocell? You almost need one for each device due to local light. Most important question is DO YOU NEED IT? Really we fly during the day or night. You set your lights as need and fly. Sometimes when IFR, night, low visibility approach, I might turn down cockpit lights, EFIS brightness, just to make sure my eyes are dark adapted and to see the approach lights. I don't know if it helps but I do that. If there is lightning I might turn them ALL to high. In fact some airplanes have a swtich that turns ALL lights to high for that reason. The high lights reflect off the windscreen and protect the eyes somewhat A photocell will not help. MANUAL control is the way to go in my opinion. The reason the little LED displays on avionics have photocells is they are read during the day. Most EFIS or what ever is usually full bright during the day. At night you turn them down. The EFFORT to make that small adjustment from day to night is pretty small. How much do you fly at night a year? If you want to learn how to make a photocell switch or dimmer there are cool electronic hobby kits that you can make. Google it. Personally I still have a 200 in ONE electronic kits that I play around with different project ideas, at least to start. I also have a prototype board, but those "kids" electronic kits are fun for kids and adults. Usually they all include a photocell project or five. From there you can add on to an existing dimmer or make your own photocell dimmer, if you decide to go that way. It sounds like you want to learn how it work. They also have stand alone electronic kits, such as photo cell dimmers and switches. Even if you don't do it, its fun to make those little kits. They George >From: "Mark Banus" > >Subject: Electronic Auto Light Dimming Circuit > >Most Avionics items (Nav/Comm etc) come with a circuit that >automatically dims the "lights" as it gets darker using a light sensor. > >I would like to employ such a device to auto dim the few lights in my >C/P that are not already auto dimmed. I have searched for such a >device with no luck. Does anyone know of such a device? > >TIA Mark Banus G SIIS FT ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:47 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio I thought such a device that grabbed the ear might have merit. My daughter wears hers all the time and it does not fall off. But you are correct that a plane is a different story. I just want to hear the radio without a head set. There is also the kind that have a band behind the head and two ear buds with a boom mike. Paul ================= At 08:49 AM 12/10/2007, you wrote: > >Paul, > >Quick answer - I have not. > >I agree, that would be very nice. Unfortunately store brand earpieces >will never filter out the noise in a typical cockpit. Additionally and >good bit of turbulence would send an earpiece flying. My father always >looses his hearing aid when we hit the bumps. > >What we need is the blue tooth headset. Don't worry, Bose or somebody >like them is probably working on it. Unfortunately a Bose will also need >a Garmim/PMI to comply. I'm also quite sure both of them are working on >a blue tooth audio panel. How much you wanna bet one of these turns up >at Oshkosh next year? > >If I could have the functionality of my BMW panel in my airplane (at 1/3 >the price of the old stuff I'm using in the airplane) I'd be ecstatic. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul >wilson >Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:21 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio > > > >Anybody know of a gadget for the com radio to allow use of a >bluetooth ear piece? >Sure, an intercom and headset is an option, but I like the idea on >just an earpiece. >Thanks, Paul > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:48 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio Close but cold not find any sellers. Paul ================ At 10:34 AM 12/10/2007, you wrote: >Is this what you want? > >http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/17/loprestis-clearblue-bluetooth-headset-for-pilots-roger-roger/ > >I thought a major company would have announced by now, but I dont >think it has happened. > > >http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:48 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bluetooth for the com radio Pretty close. I bet it would work? Paul ========== At 10:34 AM 12/10/2007, you wrote: >Is this what you want? > >http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/17/loprestis-clearblue-bluetooth-headset-for-pilots-roger-roger/ > >I thought a major company would have announced by now, but I dont >think it has happened. > > >http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:55 PM PST US From: "Allen Fulmer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Questions re: Z19 Hello Bob, If I may offer some recent information regarding this question/answer: Bob N. answered: >>>>2. Since Z19 is for an electrically dependent engine, it >>>would be great to >>>>see the required ignition power included. >>> >>> I'm not sure what data I was given when that >>> Z-figure was crafted. I'm thinking that the >>> redundant ignition (if any) was paired with the >>> redundant fuel management systems. If you've >>> data that suggests expanded attention for >>> the ignition system(s), I'd be pleased to add >>> the coverage. Allen F. adds: Latest manual for Eggenfellner 6 cyl. Subaru states: ================================================================= QUOTE: E6-Series Engine Wiring 1) RED - 20A EFI Power. This wire provides power for your Electronic Fuel Injection system. This includes the ignition coils and fuel injector coils. This circuit is critical and must obtain power from the "Essential Equipment Bus". In other words, no matter which battery is supplying power, this circuit must remain powered. Use a 20 Amp resetable, aircraft-quality circuit breaker. Having said all this, it is not strictly necessary for this circuit to be switched on and off along with the ignition switch at all. If the ECU is powered down, then it will never trigger the coils and this circuit will sit idle, consuming no power. However, most builders will prefer to have this circuit "switched" in order to minimize the number of "always hot" circuits in the aircraft. This requires that whatever switch or relay is controlling this circuit, be capable of reliably handling the 20 Amp load. END QUOTE QUOTE: 2) RED - 5A ECU Power. This wire provides power for the ECU, the computer that controls your engine. This circuit is critical and must obtain power from the "Essential Equipment Bus". In other words, no matter which battery is supplying power, this circuit must remain powered. Use a 5 Amp resetable, aircraft-quality circuit breaker. This circuit should be switched by your Ignition Switch. Turning off this circuit effectively shuts down the engine. END QUOTE ================================================================= As I understand Z19RB design, it seeks to feed essential engine power from whichever Battery Bus is "hot" through the Engine Primary and Engine Secondary OFF/ON switches and the associated bridge rectifiers. With the batteries in the back, the switches and rectifiers would be located on and/or near the instrument panel. That takes care of the ECU and #1 Fuel Pump but what about the ignition coils and fuel injectors which Eggenfellner calls the "Electronic Fuel Injection System"? I seem to remember that you do not recommend feeding any load greater than 10A from the Battery busses. Hence the question, how to feed the "Electronic Fuel Injection system" from a specified 20A source? Do we want a pair of Three Pole/DT switches and another bridge rectifier w/heat sink for the 20A load? Or another pair of switches (Ignition Primary OFF/ON and Ignition Secondary OFF/ON) and a bridge rectifier with appropriately sized heat sink? Or do we need one or two relays at the batteries just for the ignition power? Thank, Allen Fulmer RV7 Wiring Alexander City, AL ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:13 PM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: AeroElectric-List: Over voltage with Z13/8 I expect that typically Z13/8 is normally run in flight with the SD-8 alternator off. If both alternators were on, I expect the current generated would be dependent on which regulator is set to the slightly lower voltage. So possibly the SD-8 would be at full output, with the main alternator picking up the slack. Although undesirable, I expect it would not actually damage anything. The opposite would be ideal really, with the SD-8 producing current only if the main alternator was not. My real question though is: If an overvoltage spike occurs, would both overvoltage modules take both alternators offline ? I expect yes, and I do not see any way around it. To do otherwise, would risk too long of a high voltage condition. Should the maintenance switch option for the E-Mags that was previously depicted in deleted Z33 be added to Z13/8 ? Thanks ! Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:30 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z 13-8 P-mag wiring At 12:19 PM 12/10/2007 -0500, you wrote: >I think you've reversed the functionality of the E- and P- mags, Bob. P >is the self-powering type, and E is the externally-powered-only model, so >they appear to be reversed on Z-13/8 labels. That's the way I remember >it, anyway. > >-Bill B Actually, either Emag product can be wired either way. If you power the device from a switched bus (any bus but a battery bus) then you don't necessarily need to shut off ship's power when the engine is stopped. Current drain in the non-running state is tens of milliamps. If you want to run the ignition from a battery bus (my favorite source) then it's necessary to disconnect the power source when the aircraft is powered down so that you don't run the battery down. My preference is to minimize total numbers of switches so it seems most practical to use the 2-10 so that both power and control of the ignition system can be accomplished from the same device. If you run the p-mag from a switched bus and control it with a single pole switch, then the occasional test of the internal power source can be accomplished by momentarily powering down the bus that supplies ship's power to the ignition system. Hence the suggestion that the P-Mag be powered from the main bus and the E-Mag be powered from the battery bus. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:49 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Joint use of two power converters An observation: From the pictures that are shown on the site that Matt provided it looks like these are simple linear regulators, which means that you will be dissipating the same amount of power that you are using (28V @ 5A and 2A in give you 14V @ 5A and 2A out). So, at full load power consumption you will be dissipating almost 100W in each of these two regulators. Regulators usually have some way of sensing the output voltage they are regulating (unless it is a simple series voltage dropping setup). When the regulator senses the output voltage, whether it is coming from it's own internal circuitry or from the other regulator that is also connected to the 14V bus, it "throttles back" and lowers the internal regulator drive, essentially shutting down the output. What that means is that the regulator with the highest output will supply all the current your bus requires until it is overloaded. I don't know what happens to these supplies at overload, but I suspect that they are an unsophisticated design and probably just overheat if you try to draw more than their rated current. In other words, I strongly suspect that you cannot connect the outputs unless all you want is redundant power for up to 7 amps. In which case, you could connect both outputs through an isolating diode to your bus. If one fails the other will take up the load - but only to 7A total. If you need more than 7A, then you will have to feed individual outputs to individual instruments. Unless you already have these devices (and even if you do), you might want to consider a good switching regulator to minimize the wasted power and supply the current you need. You can certainly get one for the same or less cost as these two linear supplies. My $0.02. Dick Tasker david stroud wrote: > > Lads, thanks to Bob's lead to existing diagrams and timely input > from several listers, I've decided to forge ahead with my own > wiring diagram/system. > > Due to equipment already on hand, I will be running 28v for most > requirements and power down to 14v via two Collins PWC 150 > power converters to run the radio, transponder and turn coordinator. > These converters take in 28 v and output 14v 5amp and 2 amps > each. There's no handy way to mount a fuse between their outputs > and the end user and I do have two very nice auto style fuse holders > on hand that I was intending to use as a 28v and 14v bus bar. The > + input on these fuse holders is a single item leading to all + sides > of the fuses. Therefore, the question is, does anyone know if both > outputs of both converters can be "ganged together" as a common > + input to the 14v fuse holder/bus and collectively provide a 14 amp > service? This would simplify fusing the radio, tpdr and turn coordinator > and maybe even provide service for a spare. > > I dragged the net but found no info on ganging together the outputs of > these converters. > > Thanks. > > David Stroud Ottawa, Canada > C-FDWS Christavia > Fairchild 51 under construction > > > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch Rating At 05:41 AM 12/11/2007 -0800, you wrote: >Hi: > >I recently joined this group cuz I'm working on an aviation project and >have been reading the Aeroconnection manual. In past non aviation >projects I've bought switches from Radio Shack etc that I've used in 12v >systems. The rating on some of these switches only gave the AC rating say >15A.125VAC. I always assumed that if it was good for 15amps at 125v it was >ok for the same amps at 12v. However, I'm trying to understand how all >this works now. So the question is, can you convert that AC rating to DC >and if so, how. I read in the manual where there was a resistive, >inductive and tungsten rating for switches but not a AC - DC >conversion. I also saw that V x A = W but that would give the switch >about a 156A rating which doesn't sound right. Sorry if this is a stupid >question or if its in the manual someplace and I've missed it. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Switch_Ratings.pdf If you're designing a failure tolerant system, then switch replacement due to a lapse in judicious selection is a maintenance issue, not a safety issue. Bottom line is that just about ANY switch you choose to try in your airplane is unlikely to die of old age as opposed to a ratings issue. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:17 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Switch Rating (clarification of syntax) At 11:32 PM 12/10/2007 -0600, you wrote: > > >At 05:41 AM 12/11/2007 -0800, you wrote: > >>Hi: >> >>I recently joined this group cuz I'm working on an aviation project and >>have been reading the Aeroconnection manual. In past non aviation >>projects I've bought switches from Radio Shack etc that I've used in 12v >>systems. The rating on some of these switches only gave the AC rating >>say 15A.125VAC. I always assumed that if it was good for 15amps at 125v >>it was ok for the same amps at 12v. However, I'm trying to understand >>how all this works now. So the question is, can you convert that AC >>rating to DC and if so, how. I read in the manual where there was a >>resistive, inductive and tungsten rating for switches but not a AC - DC >>conversion. I also saw that V x A = W but that would give the switch >>about a 156A rating which doesn't sound right. Sorry if this is a stupid >>question or if its in the manual someplace and I've missed it. > > See: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Switch_Ratings.pdf > > If you're designing a failure tolerant system, > then switch replacement due to a lapse in > judicious selection is a maintenance issue, > not a safety issue. > > Bottom line is that just about ANY switch you > choose to try in your airplane is MOST likely to > die of old age as opposed to a ratings issue. > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.