Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Re: Hugo's antenna questions (gommone7@bellsouth.net)
2. 05:45 AM - Electric Heater (Eric M. Jones)
3. 08:07 AM - Re: Thermocouple quesions. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: Hugo's antenna questions (Richard Tasker)
5. 08:35 AM - Re: Z13 Procedures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:53 AM - PIDG .25" Fast-On terminals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 11:04 AM - AEC9005-101 fuction (Gaye and Vaughn)
8. 11:04 AM - Re: PIDG .25" Fast-On terminals (Dj Merrill)
9. 04:56 PM - Re: AEC9005-101 fuction (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:02 PM - Re: PIDG .25" Fast-On terminals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 06:11 PM - Antenna Grounding (Jeff Page)
12. 06:49 PM - Re: PIDG .25" Fast-On terminals (Dj Merrill)
13. 07:11 PM - Re: Antenna Grounding (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Hugo's antenna questions |
Good morning,I purchase yor electric book about a year ago,I was disappointed at
the time,because how technical was write ,I was expect a lot of pictures not
electric symbols,I want to build an airplane for my self ,not became a electronic
guru,but ,reading and reading ,now I;m start to understand and appreciate
the amount of information was in that little package,(and a low cost for the
info released),(still thinking need to be more pictorial,(I'm still don;t know
how a diode look like,and how need to be conected to the circuit,solder ,crimp
,or?
any way ,I have a dilema ,and until now no body satisfied me with a logical answer,if
its not to much a problem I like to ask you,reading yor book I fully understand
the work of a thermocouple,but,,, I need to know if the leads from the
instrument to the sensor can be cut to fit the rigth length,I mean, if the number
one cylinder lead can be longer then the number six,my dilema ,and I can
't found in your explanation ,its will be different or dealy time in the reading
,if the wires are different lengths?hope I was able to explain my question,wo
persons from the same company(EFIS) give me different answers.its this an
opinion or its a physical law apply?
Thanks for your time
Hugo Terrosa
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 09:08 PM 11/25/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >
> >Hi All,
> >I 'm installing a Comant antenna in the top cabin of my RV10(composite)it
> >is a VHF-GPS-Weather data, while I have no problem in doing so in the
> >metal part ,in the cabin(after I read Bob Nicklaus booK) it looks like I
> >must install a ground plane inside the cabin.
> >The book is very fast in explaining,(cut a one inch cooper and weld )
> >(call 3m for materials) and so on,it does not mention the lengths of each
> >leg nor the diameter of the round plate, does it need to be aluminum or
> >copper?
>
> Radials under an antenna should be the same length as the
> antenna itself. For example, If the comm antenna is
> 23" in height above the skin, the radials under it should
> describe a circle (or skeleton of a circle) that has
> a radius of 23". Therefore the disk may be of any size
> and the radials of any length as long as distance from
> tip of a radial measured to the center of the disk is
> the same as the height of the antenna.
>
> The disk serves two purposes: Provide a doubler under the
> antenna and an radio frequency ground for the antenna. You
> can make the disk and radials out of aluminum but you'd
> have to rivet the ends of the radials to the disk to get
> a good electrical connection. I prefer to use copper or brass.
> If you don't need to add structural doubler, the disk
> may be quite thin . . . .005" brass shim stock would
> work.
>
> When you use copper or brass and make the radials
> from copper or brass, one may attach the radials to
> the disk by soldering which provides an electrical
> connection with great longevity.
>
> In cases were the radials are short (2.6" under
> a transponder antenna) then the entire ground plane
> can be one solid disk. Here the disk may be aluminum,
> brass or copper.
>
> >Thanks
> >The book is very good ,but its still way beyoong me since I don't want to
> >became an electronic engineer before learning how to build an airplane,
> >I'm still thinking many builders want to learn how to build a panel
> >without the necessity of knowing how an alternator is built ,or how many
> >inches are the quarter wave(watever that means)I thinks the first
> >technician who will be able to show pictures at what a diode look like and
> >wich point needs to be solder ,will sale a tons of books,and don't try to
> >convert every body in master panel designers.
>
> The AeroElectric Connection is not an attempt to
> convert anyone to anything. It's simply a collection
> of simple ideas that offers more than the traditional
> "cook books" bur falls far short of making an engineer
> out of anyone.
>
> It was crafted with the idea that the informed builder
> is the most confident builder both in terms of building
> and operating his/her airplane. A great many of our
> fellow pilots operate their airplanes much as they do
> their cars. The machines are just appliances with knobs,
> levers, and fuel tanks. They are competent enough in
> operating the machine to get a license but have little
> if any knowledge about how it works (and perhaps don't
> care).
>
> >Its my personal opinion only.
>
> If you don't believe you received fair value for
> your purchase, just let me know and I'll refund your
> money.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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I can't imagine anyone putting a radiant heater in an airplane.
Here in New England, we know that you can keep warm just by the power of imagination
alone. However, for those need more warmth see the 12V electric heater pads
and seat heaters at--
http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/12vocaborvor.html
LSA and powered ultralights tend to need INCREDIBLE amounts of heating. Someone
should sell a humongous 200 Amp alternator for the heaters in these.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151923#151923
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Thermocouple quesions. |
At 01:18 PM 12/13/2007 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Good morning,I purchase yor electric book about a year ago,I was
>disappointed at the time,because how technical was write ,I was expect a
>lot of pictures not electric symbols,I want to build an airplane for my
>self ,not became a electronic guru,but ,reading and reading ,now I;m start
>to understand and appreciate the amount of information was in that little
>package,(and a low cost for the info released),(still thinking need to be
>more pictorial,(I'm still don;t know how a diode look like,and how need to
>be conected to the circuit,solder ,crimp ,or?
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
As you've discovered, the 'Connection is not
a cook-book. There are only rudimentary suggestions
of recipes for success in the form of the Z-figures.
My goals for this effort was not to be a competitor
of Tony Bingelis and others who have done a fine
job explaining the practice of assembling airplanes.
The 'Connection is intended for a small fraction of
the OBAM aircraft community with curiosity and
a desire to understand the simple-ideas that support
the practice.
>any way ,I have a dilema ,and until now no body satisfied me with a
>logical answer,if its not to much a problem I like to ask you,reading yor
>book I fully understand the work of a thermocouple,but,,, I need to know
>if the leads from the instrument to the sensor can be cut to fit the rigth
>length,I mean, if the number one cylinder lead can be longer then the
>number six,my dilema ,and I can 't found in your explanation ,its will be
>different or dealy time in the reading ,if the wires are different
>lengths?hope I was able to explain my question,wo persons from the same
>company(EFIS) give me different answers.its this an opinion or its a
>physical law apply?
About 60 years ago, it was not uncommon for
a thermocouple driven instrument to get all of
it's operating energy directly from the
thermocouple. A good example is this instrument
found on Ebay a few years ago:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Instruments/CHT%20Gauge.jpg
Note that in the lower right corner of the face
we see the notation "2 OHM I/C COUPLE". Further,
on the rear . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Instruments/CHT%20Gauge1.jpg
. . . there are only two terminals. I.e, no connections
to power or other electronics. THIS instrument's
calibration is accurate IF and ONLY IF the Iron-Constantan
thermocouple has a total loop resistance of exactly 2.0
ohms. These instruments are generally paired with a
specific thermocouple assembly having the necessary
characteristics and it cannot be altered either for
length or gage of wire.
The modern thermocouple instrument is assisted by
external power and the loop resistance of the thermocouple
is no longer critical. These devices are insensitive
to changes in length, wire gage or both. However,
they ARE still sensitive to poor joining techniques
that introduce parasitic thermocouples operating at
other temperatures causing the instrument to read
in error.
Short answer to your question is that you may alter
the length or gage of wire used as long as you
use good practice for splicing the segments.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Hugo's antenna questions |
You can cut the thermocouple to any length you need. There is no
"delay" in any length since it is a static DC signal. The thermocouple
wire provides a voltage to the instrument that is proportional to the
difference in temperature over the length of the wire. A shorter wire
has a greater temperature gradient per foot but still the same
temperature difference from the source (EGT, CHT, etc.) to the
instrument, so the reading will be the same regardless of length. If
you want more information than you can handle, Google "thermocouple".
Dick Tasker
gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> Good morning,I purchase yor electric book about a year ago,I was disappointed
at the time,because how technical was write ,I was expect a lot of pictures not
electric symbols,I want to build an airplane for my self ,not became a electronic
guru,but ,reading and reading ,now I;m start to understand and appreciate
the amount of information was in that little package,(and a low cost for the
info released),(still thinking need to be more pictorial,(I'm still don;t know
how a diode look like,and how need to be conected to the circuit,solder ,crimp
,or?
> any way ,I have a dilema ,and until now no body satisfied me with a logical answer,if
its not to much a problem I like to ask you,reading yor book I fully
understand the work of a thermocouple,but,,, I need to know if the leads from
the instrument to the sensor can be cut to fit the rigth length,I mean, if the
number one cylinder lead can be longer then the number six,my dilema ,and I can
't found in your explanation ,its will be different or dealy time in the reading
,if the wires are different lengths?hope I was able to explain my question,wo
persons from the same company(EFIS) give me different answers.its this
an opinion or its a physical law apply?
> Thanks for your time
> Hugo Terrosa
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>
>> At 09:08 PM 11/25/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> I 'm installing a Comant antenna in the top cabin of my RV10(composite)it
>>> is a VHF-GPS-Weather data, while I have no problem in doing so in the
>>> metal part ,in the cabin(after I read Bob Nicklaus booK) it looks like I
>>> must install a ground plane inside the cabin.
>>> The book is very fast in explaining,(cut a one inch cooper and weld )
>>> (call 3m for materials) and so on,it does not mention the lengths of each
>>> leg nor the diameter of the round plate, does it need to be aluminum or
>>> copper?
>>>
>> Radials under an antenna should be the same length as the
>> antenna itself. For example, If the comm antenna is
>> 23" in height above the skin, the radials under it should
>> describe a circle (or skeleton of a circle) that has
>> a radius of 23". Therefore the disk may be of any size
>> and the radials of any length as long as distance from
>> tip of a radial measured to the center of the disk is
>> the same as the height of the antenna.
>>
>> The disk serves two purposes: Provide a doubler under the
>> antenna and an radio frequency ground for the antenna. You
>> can make the disk and radials out of aluminum but you'd
>> have to rivet the ends of the radials to the disk to get
>> a good electrical connection. I prefer to use copper or brass.
>> If you don't need to add structural doubler, the disk
>> may be quite thin . . . .005" brass shim stock would
>> work.
>>
>> When you use copper or brass and make the radials
>> from copper or brass, one may attach the radials to
>> the disk by soldering which provides an electrical
>> connection with great longevity.
>>
>> In cases were the radials are short (2.6" under
>> a transponder antenna) then the entire ground plane
>> can be one solid disk. Here the disk may be aluminum,
>> brass or copper.
>>
>>
>>> Thanks
>>> The book is very good ,but its still way beyoong me since I don't want to
>>> became an electronic engineer before learning how to build an airplane,
>>> I'm still thinking many builders want to learn how to build a panel
>>> without the necessity of knowing how an alternator is built ,or how many
>>> inches are the quarter wave(watever that means)I thinks the first
>>> technician who will be able to show pictures at what a diode look like and
>>> wich point needs to be solder ,will sale a tons of books,and don't try to
>>> convert every body in master panel designers.
>>>
>> The AeroElectric Connection is not an attempt to
>> convert anyone to anything. It's simply a collection
>> of simple ideas that offers more than the traditional
>> "cook books" bur falls far short of making an engineer
>> out of anyone.
>>
>> It was crafted with the idea that the informed builder
>> is the most confident builder both in terms of building
>> and operating his/her airplane. A great many of our
>> fellow pilots operate their airplanes much as they do
>> their cars. The machines are just appliances with knobs,
>> levers, and fuel tanks. They are competent enough in
>> operating the machine to get a license but have little
>> if any knowledge about how it works (and perhaps don't
>> care).
>>
>>
>>> Its my personal opinion only.
>>>
>> If you don't believe you received fair value for
>> your purchase, just let me know and I'll refund your
>> money.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Z13 Procedures |
At 01:23 PM 12/12/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Bob, where do things stand R&D-wise with your proposed external OVP for
>the IR automotive alternators? Haven't heard anything in awhile, and
>wondering if I missed something lately.
No, I THOUGHT when I retired from the OEM TC aircraft world
that I would have more time to expand my own activities
and in particular, get the alternator drive-stand running
so that the ideas in development can be proofed in actual
service.
Unfortunately, the folks I've been assisting for the
past 6 months are having trouble putting their arms
around what's necessary to add a capable electronics
activity to their already stellar mechanical capabilities.
What was supposed to be a 20 hr/wk activity on my
part has in fact been much more demanding. We're
having a meeting between my principal and one of my
favorite can-do electronics development, certification
and production houses here in Wichita next Monday.
If things go according to plans and best-wishes for
this venture, I'll be getting some relief in the
not too distant future. I have an experiment already
assembled that will test the validity of the proposed
design. It's just going to have to spend another
month or so on the back burners.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | PIDG .25" Fast-On terminals |
Also see this ebay offering for PIDG
fast-on terminals. AMP dwg:
http://tinyurl.com/2ws3ln
Ebay item:
120096613362
I've written to the seller on these terminals and
he's aware of the error in calculating shipping
charges. He apologizes and says folks that are
interested in this product enter their order for
what ever quantity they want and then WAIT for
an invoice to be emailed. To fix the error, he
needs to close the listing and create a new one.
He says he still has 800 terminals available.
$.10 each with a reasonable shipping charge makes
them an exceptional deal.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 7
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Subject: | AEC9005-101 fuction |
I am in the process of using Z19M to do the schematic for my
Europa/UL260i combination and wish to ask some questions as they arise
in my head.
It is my understanding from reading the AEC9005 manual that when the ENG
BAT switch is in the up(AUTO) position, the AEC9005-101 module will keep
the engine Battery contactor closed as long as the alternator is
producing 13+ volts. This allows the engine battery to be charged.
Should the alternator fail, the AEC9005-101 makes the engine battery
contactor open and isolates the engine battery, so that it is only
supplying power to the engine. I am correct?
There will be more questions!
Vaughn Teegarden
Europa Mono/ UL260i
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: PIDG .25" Fast-On terminals |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> Ebay item:
>
> 120096613362
>
> I've written to the seller on these terminals and
> he's aware of the error in calculating shipping
> charges. He apologizes and says folks that are
> interested in this product enter their order for
> what ever quantity they want and then WAIT for
> an invoice to be emailed.
I just ordered some, and he did exactly that.
I'm also looking for a good source for quality 9 pin d-subs
(solder-type), and 2, 3, and 4 pin molex connectors if you know of
any... :-)
Thanks,
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: AEC9005-101 fuction |
At 01:57 PM 12/13/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>I am in the process of using Z19M to do the schematic for my Europa/UL260i
>combination and wish to ask some questions as they arise in my head.
>
>It is my understanding from reading the AEC9005 manual that when the ENG
>BAT switch is in the up(AUTO) position, the AEC9005-101 module will keep
>the engine Battery contactor closed as long as the alternator is producing
>13+ volts. This allows the engine battery to be charged. Should the
>alternator fail, the AEC9005-101 makes the engine battery contactor open
>and isolates the engine battery, so that it is only supplying power to the
>engine. I am correct?
Yes. However, know that the AEC9005 is discontinued
and will be replaced with a new, totally enclosed
product that will offer the same functionality.
It will look like this:
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Products/A09_Package.jpg
But for planning purposes, you can drive ahead
with incorporating AEC9005 functionality
into your project.
By the way, if anyone is motivated to fabricate their
own AEC9005, the artwork for the boards has been
posted at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/DIY/9005-301-1C_Fab.pcb
Software to open the above file, modify as desired
and/or order boards can be acquired at:
http://web7.topchoice.com/%7Ereifel/ExpressPCBSetup.exe
There will be more questions!
That's what we're here for!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: PIDG .25" Fast-On terminals |
At 02:02 PM 12/13/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >
> > Ebay item:
> >
> > 120096613362
> >
> > I've written to the seller on these terminals and
> > he's aware of the error in calculating shipping
> > charges. He apologizes and says folks that are
> > interested in this product enter their order for
> > what ever quantity they want and then WAIT for
> > an invoice to be emailed.
>
> I just ordered some, and he did exactly that.
>
> I'm also looking for a good source for quality 9 pin d-subs
>(solder-type), and 2, 3, and 4 pin molex connectors if you know of
>any... :-)
Why go soldered when it's so easy to go with
the REAL d-subs, those with machined, extractable
pins.
Which ever route you go, you can get the connectors
at:
http://tinyurl.com/2hlpko
http://tinyurl.com/25v5fj
http://tinyurl.com/2bbt3l
http://tinyurl.com/yrzrme
Molex makes a lot of 2, 3, and 4 pin connectors.
You'll need to be more specific.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Antenna Grounding |
Today I received my Comant CI-121 VHF Com antennas. They did not
include any installation instructions. There is some generic
installation instructions on their web site at:
http://www.comant.com/htmls/guide1.html
This indicates that the electical bonding to the aircraft ground is
important and can be accomplished by ensuring good metal-metal contact
with the aluminum skin, or with the mounting screws attaching to a
backing plate (not provided).
Included with the antenna is a cork gasket that will eliminate any
metal-metal contact. The screws appear to connect only with a
fiberglass outer shell. So there will be no ground connection except
through the coax cable.
How should this antenna really be installed on an aluminum aircraft ?
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: PIDG .25" Fast-On terminals |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Why go soldered when it's so easy to go with
> the REAL d-subs, those with machined, extractable
> pins.
Thanks! Might be my imagination, but I was thinking the soldered ones
would have less chance of the pin coming loose from the housing, and
I've worked with the solder ones before. I'm thinking of using the heat
shrink and hot gun trick that you've published to make connections for
trim servos and such.
>
> Molex makes a lot of 2, 3, and 4 pin connectors.
> You'll need to be more specific.
Something like these:
<http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103448&cp 32058.2032231.2032286&parentPage=family>
<http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103293&cp 32058.2032231.2032286&parentPage=family>
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://deej.net/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Antenna Grounding |
At 09:09 PM 12/13/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Today I received my Comant CI-121 VHF Com antennas. They did not
>include any installation instructions. There is some generic
>installation instructions on their web site at:
>http://www.comant.com/htmls/guide1.html
>This indicates that the electical bonding to the aircraft ground is
>important and can be accomplished by ensuring good metal-metal contact
>with the aluminum skin, or with the mounting screws attaching to a
>backing plate (not provided).
>
>Included with the antenna is a cork gasket that will eliminate any
>metal-metal contact. The screws appear to connect only with a
>fiberglass outer shell. So there will be no ground connection except
>through the coax cable.
>
>How should this antenna really be installed on an aluminum aircraft ?
Pitch the gasket. Don't scrape your paint except in immediate
vicinity of mounting holes. These areas are marked (*) in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Antenna_Installation.gif
where you will take advantage of the clamp-up forces on
the mounting bolts. Sealing can be accomplished with a filet
of RTV around the finished installation.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
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