Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Re: P-Mag wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 04:46 AM - Re: "Super" cables (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:45 AM - Re: Battery Question? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: Battery Question? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 07:08 AM - Re: 2 comms 1 antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:49 AM - Clearance/delivery switch (John Mason)
7. 09:49 AM - Marker Beacon Diplexer Question (Donald Harker)
8. 10:16 AM - Re: Clearance/delivery switch (JOHN TIPTON)
9. 12:07 PM - Cesnna split switch (John Swanson)
10. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Wing Wiring Clamps and Brackets (John Morgensen)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: Aspen Avionics panel: Too good to be true? (Michael Pereira)
12. 01:46 PM - Re: Clearance/delivery switch ()
13. 02:15 PM - Re: Marker Beacon Diplexer Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 03:15 PM - Re: ANL 60 (Kevin Boddicker)
15. 06:10 PM - Re: Marker Beacon Diplexer Question (BobsV35B@aol.com)
16. 07:47 PM - Re: Clearance/delivery switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: P-Mag wiring |
At 03:52 PM 12/17/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Bob,
> I have wired the "P-Mag" system per your older drawings. With
>the new Z-13/8 drawings ver. 12/10/07 you have simplified the wiring. I
>think what has happened is I have "lost" the ability to check the self
>power check that was in the old switching.
No. Note that I've recommended that E-Mag power up from
the battery bus. This is in keeping with the philosophy of
running electrically dependent engine systems from an always
hot source.
The P-Mag runs from a switched bus. This means that you can
easily do a test of the P-Mag's internal alternator by
powering down the bus at some time after the engine is
running. Which (of course) won't effect the engine because
E-dependent systems are wired to the battery bus and you're
running the independent system from a switched bus for the
purposes of demonstrating independence.
This test need not be run often . . . certainly not as
a routine pre-flight test.
Not further that both products come up in the maintenance
mode without being active (p-lead grounded) as soon as
the switched bus is up for the P-Mag and as soon as the
switch is moved to BAT for the E-Mag.
This wiring change retains all the utility to the
owner/operator, reduces number of switches and covers
all versions of software that might be running loose
in the wild.
> Is it because Brad and crew
>need the 12 power applied first and keep it applied until you loose the
>main bus? Then the self powered function takes over? Is it because
>there might be a temporary loss of power while it is still running that
>might scramble the timing? Just trying to figure out the why's. Right
>now my power comes from the battery bus which is "good" until the battery
>goes TU. I'm just a bit confused. I think I will go into the bus at
>some place and pick up some power and change over the switches. Bummer
>as I have closed up the cowling and I will have to get on my back under
>the panel. Oh well, if I have done it right, I will be able to do it
>with minimal grunting and skinned fingers.
If your present Emagair products have the updated
software, it's my understanding that the switching
published earlier is okay. You don't need to change
anything. The changes currently published were done
to simplify the wiring and operation (one fewer switch)
and wire in a manner that would not cause the owner
of an older system to experience the loss of timing
issue with the old software.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: "Super" cables |
At 07:35 PM 12/17/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
> > Speaking of economical...while looking at plasma TV's and HD video
> players the
> > other day, I discovered that they want over a hundred bucks just for
> the cable
> > that runs between the two units!!! Is that cable made of unobtainium
> or what?
> > I sense a consumer rip-off, but the nice salesperson assure me of the fact
> > that the quality of the picture is dependent on getting the ex$pensive
> cable!
> > And I thought avionics stuff was cost intensive!
>
>Yeah well, the salesperson was just repeating what she was told. Since
>hdmi is digital
>the picture either works or it doesn't. I buy the cheapest hdmi and dvi
>cables I can
>find.
>
>Fyi, sometimes you can walk over to the computer section of the store and
>find the
>same cable marketed as a monitor cable for much less money.
The great "gold-plated super-cable" phenomenon has
been discussed at length in various electronics
journals with the consensus being that there is no
foundation in the simple ideas of physics to support
claims of "higher quality" audio and/or video. The
few instances where materials and/or fabrication
techniques might account for a measurable difference
in the lab would produce no perceived difference to
the human ear or eye.
It's 99.999% horse hocky.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Question? |
At 10:17 PM 12/17/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Good Evening Bob,
>
>Wow!!
>
>I had no idea it would take that much effort.
>
>I do have a contactor that may work. It is a 6041H189 from a V35B.
Shucks, that's usually the hard part
to find.
>
>I'll start gathering the rest of the needed materials. Thanks for all the
>information.
It doesn't HAVE to be that much. For
the occasional ground power task, I've
resorted many times to simple work-arounds.
But if you want to use the HP supply
in conjunction with batteries, you're
well advised to accommodate the
crowbar ov protection. I smoked one
of my venerable HP supplies some years
ago discovering this problem.
But I think you'll find that when
you have a robustly packaged, convenient
tool it will get used much more
often than you anticipate now. The
mechanics at our little airport did
a lot of ship's battery testing on customer
aircraft where the bus voltage low
(no alternator) and added wear and
tear to the battery. After I built
the cart, it got used several times
a week.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Question? |
Thanks Bob,
I am gathering the material and will lean on you for wiring advice when all
is in hand.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 12/18/2007 7:56:31 A.M. Central Standard Time,
nuckolls.bob@cox.net writes:
But I think you'll find that when
you have a robustly packaged, convenient
tool it will get used much more
often than you anticipate now. The
mechanics at our little airport did
a lot of ship's battery testing on customer
aircraft where the bus voltage low
(no alternator) and added wear and
tear to the battery. After I built
the cart, it got used several times
a week.
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 2 comms 1 antenna |
At 02:56 PM 12/17/2007 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi,
>A newcomer to this list so forgive me if this question(or similar) has
>been posed before. I am building an RV9 with 2 comm radio's, a Microair
>M760 with an ICOM A210 and both thru a PM3000 Intercom. My plan is to
>have a single Antenna and use a 4 pole 2 way switch, 3 poles to switch the
>audio and the 3rd. to control a 50 Ohm Coax switching relay to connect the
>antenna. Any forseen problems with this? if so should I use 2 Antenna?
>this I thought would risk damage to the receiver input of the non
>transmitting Comm.
Most schemes to avoid dual antennas are
either cumbersome or hazardous to the
radios. Suggest you plan on dual antennas.
There's been a lot of discussion about
this on the List. You can search the archives
at:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/ws_script.cgi
Search the AeroElectric list for the word
"duplexer"
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Clearance/delivery switch |
I am interested in wiring a Cl/Del switch into the system. I would like
to power up just a Comm. and EFIS and not have everything drawing
current. Am also, while dreaming, thinking that it would be nice to
have that circuit drop out when the master is switched on. I know that
this is not new as some certified aircraft have it. I just don't know
or have the knowledge to figure it out.
Thanks, John
Message 7
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| Subject: | Marker Beacon Diplexer Question |
I plan to have one marker beacon antenna feed two marker beacon receivers.
Comant makes a diplexer CI-509 that does this and it costs about $110.
Anybody see a problem with using a plain old VHF splitter for a TV set to do
this? It costs about $5 bucks and covers the frequency range. 75 Mhz
Thanks
Don Harker
RV7A Finishing
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Clearance/delivery switch |
What is a C1/Del switch
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Mason" <jmason@lightspeed.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Clearance/delivery switch
> <jmason@lightspeed.net>
>
> I am interested in wiring a Cl/Del switch into the system. I would like to
> power up just a Comm. and EFIS and not have everything drawing current.
> Am also, while dreaming, thinking that it would be nice to have that
> circuit drop out when the master is switched on. I know that this is not
> new as some certified aircraft have it. I just don't know or have the
> knowledge to figure it out.
>
> Thanks, John
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Cesnna split switch |
Can someone help me find the information I need to wire a split switch
batt/
alt into Z16 Rotax 912. I only have one buss.
Thanks
John S
CH701 rotax
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Wiring Clamps and Brackets |
Conduit and pipe hanger
I used 1/2" CPVC and pipe hangers from the usual sources.
John Morgensen
RV-9A Fuselage
messydeer wrote:
>
> Looks interesting, Eric.
>
> Does it provide the required 3/8" stand-off from the edge of the metal? I have
13 ribs per wing, so for the wires I'd only need 26. Maybe more if I could adapt
them to safely securing the 2 pitot tube lines. So 40 is the most I'd need
and would be happy with a sample.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152556#152556
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aspen Avionics panel: Too good to be true? |
> PS3 or Xbox will play HD DVD's, if you have one.
They play different hd formats. PS3 at $399 is the cheapest blu-ray player.
You can buy an add on hd-dvd drive to the xbox 360 but cheap(er) dedicated
hd-dvd players are already available (around $150 I think).
-----
mjpnj@yahoo.com
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 12
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| Subject: | Clearance/delivery switch |
John,
The wrap I got from Bob on this same question last week was that this
should be designed into your endurance bus. Example I use is Z19 where
you have the alternate switch for the endurance buss. Since you have
followed good design you already have a minimum of equipment on that
bus. That equipment would include one radio.
So, switch on e-Bus, wow, you've fired up a whole 5-7 amps and key the
radio. Ready for clearance.
If you are a real die hard, buy another small fuse bus, a switch and
have a single radio tied to that bus. If you are a real cheapo, buy and
inline fuse and wire one of the radio power lines direct to a battery.
Of course you will always need to turn that on/off. That would be a
great excuse for a 3rd radio.
RV-7 heavy cleared to taxi.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Mason
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Clearance/delivery switch
--> <jmason@lightspeed.net>
I am interested in wiring a Cl/Del switch into the system. I would like
to power up just a Comm. and EFIS and not have everything drawing
current. Am also, while dreaming, thinking that it would be nice to
have that circuit drop out when the master is switched on. I know that
this is not new as some certified aircraft have it. I just don't know
or have the knowledge to figure it out.
Thanks, John
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Marker Beacon Diplexer Question |
At 11:47 AM 12/18/2007 -0600, you wrote:
><dpharker@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>I plan to have one marker beacon antenna feed two marker beacon receivers.
>Comant makes a diplexer CI-509 that does this and it costs about $110.
>
>Anybody see a problem with using a plain old VHF splitter for a TV set to do
>this? It costs about $5 bucks and covers the frequency range. 75 Mhz
Marker transmitters are exceedingly strong for
the task . . . since you pass over them at or
below 1000'
A wet string will serve as an antenna on most
receivers. What kind of airplane are you building
and what kind of antenna have you installed. Also,
if you have a perception of increased system reliability
for having dual receivers, have you considered putting
the waypoints into your GPS for the markers and using
that as a back-up for the 75 Mhz receivers?
Finally, the TV couple will probably work fine too.
But carrying two MB receivers doubles the probability
of having to have an MB receiver repaired while
pressing a GPS receiver that's already in place into
backing up an MB receiver is a reduction in complexity,
weight, and cost of ownership.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 14
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|
Bob and listers.
Flew today, after repositioning the B lead wire and replacing the ANL
60.
All systems worked normally!!!!
Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Kevin Boddicker
Tri Q 200 N7868B 80.6 hours
Luana, IA.
On Dec 8, 2007, at 4:37 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 08:02 PM 12/7/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello Kevin
>> As I understand it you have a 55 amp alternator and a 60 amp ANL.
>> Yes the ANL is slow acting but I am not surprised that it would
>> occasionally blow under the circumstances you describe. After
>> startup the 55 amp nominal alternator could easilly be putting in
>> excess of 60 amps when connected to a battery that has been
>> sitting idle for several weeks. Personally I'd recommend the next
>> size larger ANL.
>> Ken
>
> ANL and ANN series devices are not called "fuses" for
> a reason. The physics of their operation is described
> at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/
> Bussman/ANL_Specs.pdf
>
> Note that both of the ANL30 devices are infinite carry
> time at 90 Amps! An ANL 60 is infinite carry time at
> somewhere around 130 Amps. These devices are clearly
> intended to avoid nuisance trips due to continuous
> normal current at nameplate rating COMBINED with
> the occasional bodacious inrush current or other
> transient.
>
> The problem Kevin is experiencing is certain to be
> the result of some "hard" fault somewhere.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Marker Beacon Diplexer Question |
Good Evening Don,
I know this is rather late in the discussion, but do you really feel you
will need the marker beacons?
Fan markers are being phased out. If you have any IFR approved GPS, there is
a good chance, though not a certainty, that you will be able to use a GPS
position instead of a fan marker for any required waypoint identification.
While I would certainly spend a few bucks getting the marker beacons operating,
it would not be high on my list of things that were needed.
If you have not already purchased them, maybe you could eliminate some
weight and cost as well as free up some space that could be better used in another
manner.
Just a thought!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 12/18/2007 11:51:45 A.M. Central Standard Time,
dpharker@worldnet.att.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Donald Harker"
<dpharker@worldnet.att.net>
I plan to have one marker beacon antenna feed two marker beacon receivers.
Comant makes a diplexer CI-509 that does this and it costs about $110.
Anybody see a problem with using a plain old VHF splitter for a TV set to do
this? It costs about $5 bucks and covers the frequency range. 75 Mhz
Thanks
Don Harker
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Clearance/delivery switch |
At 07:15 AM 12/18/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I am interested in wiring a Cl/Del switch into the system. I would like to
>power up just a Comm. and EFIS and not have everything drawing current.
>Am also, while dreaming, thinking that it would be nice to have that
>circuit drop out when the master is switched on. I know that this is not
>new as some certified aircraft have it. I just don't know or have the
>knowledge to figure it out.
Do you plan to have an E-bus? The clearance delivery
switch was concocted for TC aircraft that do not
and probably never will have an e-bus. The e-bus
was crafted specifically for non-TC aircraft that
need a dual-path, frugal use of energy mod for
accomplishing HOURS of en-route flight battery-only.
So, if you plan to have an e-bus, then powering up
the e-bus a couple of minutes for ATIS and a clearance
represents only a tiny fraction of the battery's total
energy content.
Making an clearance delivery function drop
automatically is an interesting gee-whizz . . . but
how about powering your comm transceiver from
the battery bus and just making sure it's on
your checklist for post flight power down?
See option A on
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Clearance_Delivery_A.pdf
Option B adds a switch to select either Battery
or E-bus for powering the radio.
On this drawing . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/Clearance_Delivery_B.pdf
Option C shows one of several ways to get an
auto-canceling transfer of comm radio power
from the e-bus to the battery bus. . . adds
a lot of "monkey motion" to the radio's power
path.
Better yet, how about using your hand-held for getting
clearance . . . this provides for pre-flight
verification of the hand-held's functionality.
Bob . . .
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