---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/04/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:54 AM - Re: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft (updated) (Chuck Jensen) 2. 04:49 AM - Re: Panel Labeling (Todd Heffley) 3. 04:51 AM - handheld radio into intercom (The Minearts) 4. 05:23 AM - Re: switch rating question (Richard T. Schaefer) 5. 05:26 AM - Re: sizing wire (Richard T. Schaefer) 6. 05:57 AM - Re: EXP-Bus, SUBARU wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 06:06 AM - FW: Tap into antenna coax? (Jeffrey W. Skiba) 8. 06:42 AM - Re: Engine GND (Frank Stringham) 9. 06:48 AM - Re: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioner (Todd Heffley) 10. 09:12 AM - Re: switch rating question (Richard T. Schaefer) 11. 11:06 AM - Re: switch rating question () 12. 11:42 AM - Re: switch rating question (B Tomm) 13. 12:19 PM - Re: switch rating question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 12:21 PM - Re: switch rating question (Richard T. Schaefer) 15. 12:41 PM - Re: FW: Tap into antenna coax? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 12:42 PM - Re: Help with D-Sub pin (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 01:48 PM - Re: handheld radio into intercom (Peter Pengilly) 18. 02:09 PM - Re: Help with D-Sub pin (H. M. Haught Jr.) 19. 02:12 PM - King Hand-held Wiring Diagram or Advice (H. M. Haught Jr.) 20. 06:38 PM - Re: Panel Labeling (AlRice) 21. 10:49 PM - Re: switch rating question (mike humphrey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:13 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Compass Requirements in Experimental Aircraft (updated) From: "Chuck Jensen" Jim, the absence of heading information for ATC makes sense. Approaching Knoxville, TN (TYS), they'll often give me a heading that I'm already on. If they can't predict my track, at least if they give me a heading they know where I'm supposed to be going...helps keep paint transfers to a minimum. ATC's equipment is so "60s.....". Chuck Jensen Now, from a previous life as an air traffic controller...tower and radar/RAPCON/GCA...... We almost never knew what your heading was and mostly didn't care unless it was vectors to an ASR approach or, possibly, a PAR, or alternatively, an initial heading to fly on a departure or vectors to final. Usually we just gave you a heading and generally were in the ballpark. Other than that it was all relative motion in relation to the any other aircraft's track. I think the newer ARTS Radar track/tag systems have quick call-up heading and predictive course extension....or perhaps that was just something I'd read from a NASA paper. Anyway, during my time, the only way to know what your heading was is to have asked for it. Jim Baker 580.788.2779 Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:54 AM PST US From: Todd Heffley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel Labeling I use "Datak" dry transfers. http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p52.htm shows an example This is a very frustrating project if the panel is mounted in the airplane. Not too bad if it is on the bench. Matte Datakote over the entire panel. This produces a product just as nice as silk screen. Costs little. Star with a sample panel, test your process and the chemicals first. Good Luck todd ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:25 AM PST US From: "The Minearts" Subject: AeroElectric-List: handheld radio into intercom Am I being too simple-minded to think I could connect a handheld transceiver into an intercom (have a Flightcom 403mc) via the headset adaptor jacks? Steve Mineart, CH601, awaiting inspection. Do Not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:34 AM PST US From: "Richard T. Schaefer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A. Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!) Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine! r.t.s. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total, 7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole 2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses? Bevan RV7A wiring _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram incorrectly? As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20 AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times 6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A. Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your Support!" Lincoln Keill Sacramento, CA RV-7A P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11 system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:45 AM PST US From: "Richard T. Schaefer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire You are likely to replace hot high current lamps with cool, low current LED lamps in the future. That technology is moving quite fast and the inverse price/intensity ratio is getting better all the time. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:53 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire LK, You could probably source all that stuff at http://www.bandc.biz/ Click on the yellow link "products". I'm looking at the wiring chart sample that comes with my preview plans. It indicates 14 awg would be the size to go with. This will also allow you to fit 100watt bulbs in the future. Separately fused at 10 amps. Just my .02 cents worth. I'm sure the experts will chime in, in the morning. Bevan Rv7A wiring _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram incorrectly? As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20 AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times 6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A. Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your Support!" Lincoln Keill Sacramento, CA RV-7A P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11 system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EXP-Bus, SUBARU wiring At 04:34 PM 1/3/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > Misunderstandings > > aside, I thought that Eggenfellner had already > > published suggested system architecture drawings > > that utilized the EXP-Bus. > >Hi Bob, > Eggenfellner is no longer recommending the use of the EXP-bus for >their installations. > > > > > Did you have any specific questions about > > Eggenfellner's proposed installation for which > > I or another List reader can be helpful? > > > > I (and I think a lot of others) are hoping to see a recommended >architecture from you that addresses the needs of the Eggenfellner >engine package, likely resembling some variant of Z-19 with the rear >dual batteries (Z-19/RB I think you called it). And that's the drawing I'm working on as noted last week sometime . . . Bob. . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:51 AM PST US From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" Subject: FW: AeroElectric-List: Tap into antenna coax? Reposting since I am still unable to find the link in question. Aka the commtap http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey W. Skiba Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:39 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tap into antenna coax? I realize this is an old post but the link below: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html returns a page not found, I tried looking manually for the info but seem to not be able to find it. Can anyone advise ? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:15 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tap into antenna coax? Don't know how long Jim's had his butt-ugly hand held antenna adapter article posted. My own version is at: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html HOWEVER, the top paragraph of my article cites the preferred way of breaking into the feedline for your comm antenna . . . put a male/female junction in the feedline with some excess coiled under a seat or behind a velcro'ed upholstery panel. The coax "T" will not work and puts one or both radio's receivers at risk for damage by the other radio's transmitter. Bob . . . At 10:16 AM 3/20/2005 -0600, you wrote: > > >James E. Clark wrote: > > > > > >Another option ... > > > >King used to make an adapter for their KX99 Handheld that can be used. > >Basically the mini jack/plug arrangement opens the coax from the panel and > >closes the connection to the handheld. It is all done in a neat little box > >and you get a mini->coax pigtail. > > > >Don't know if they still sell them or not. > > > >James > > > >snipped > >You can make one of these for yourself if you're handy with a soldering >iron. Jim Weir actually described construction in an old Kitplanes article. >http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/KP0203/KP0203.htm >The design won't make HAM radio guys or RF engineer types happy, but it >works fine considering the limited use it will get. If you're really >worried, put it in a little aluminum box. > >Charlie > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:32 AM PST US From: Frank Stringham Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List:Engine GND Frank1 Hey whats up or is that down...good grief with your acro ability I never kn ow what your attitude might be. Thanks for the response....now off to the g arage to getter dun......................or is that accomplish the task!!!! Frank2 From: frank.hinde@hp.comTo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.comDate: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 23:39:58 +0000Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List:Engine GND Hey thats what I did and I made it from Corvallis to St George and back.... :) Yup that will work just fine. Use #2 welding cable for the ultimate in flex ibility. Frank1 RV7a 245 hours From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank StringhamSent: Thursday, J anuary 03, 2008 3:02 PMTo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Aero Electric-List:Engine GND Ok so here is the set up...RV7A.....SD-8 on the Vac pad....FWF Ground block just right of upper center on the firewall. I have a clear run for the eng ine GND from the port side upper bolt on the SD-8 to the FWF ground block. Is this acceptable and will it produce a good engine GND. Fran @ SGU....RV7 A.....finishing up the last zillion items before RV grin Time ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ics.com .matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:14 AM PST US From: Todd Heffley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DMC Daniels AFM8 - Positioner Paterick You can position the pins by hand just fine. Also, I have drilled and filed the wrong positioner to use Dsub pins. Still use it today. todd ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:56 AM PST US From: "Richard T. Schaefer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question You might also look to see if this is a "Resistive" load or an "Incandescent" load or an "Inductive" load rating. Resistive - Load presents a constant current. Inductive - Load typically has voltage and current out of phase. (Something with a winding, like a motor or contactor) Incandescent - Load has a large startup current compared to normal running current. If not qualified it's probably resistive. Your Halogen bulbs present a "Incandescent" load. They draw a LOT of current when they start. They would be OK for your 75W bulbs. You might be pushing it at 100W. They failure will not be a Fuse, or a wire, but burnt (from an arc) contacts that may fail to open or more likely to close. r.t.s. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard T. Schaefer Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:23 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A. Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!) Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine! r.t.s. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total, 7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole 2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses? Bevan RV7A wiring _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram incorrectly? As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20 AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times 6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A. Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your Support!" Lincoln Keill Sacramento, CA RV-7A P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11 system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:01 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Switch manufacturers "rate" switches with at least 10"s if not 100's of thousands of operations in mind. (some even millions) There are few, if any, switches in an experimental aircraft which will ever see more than hundreds or maybe a few thousand operations in the lifetime of the aircraft. As Bob N has stated many times on this list, your switches are much more likely to fail from lack of use than they are to fail from exceeding their ratings. Bob McC >From: "Richard T. Schaefer" >To: >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question >Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:03:12 -0600 > >You might also look to see if this is a "Resistive" load or an >"Incandescent" load or an "Inductive" load rating. > > >Resistive - Load presents a constant current. > >Inductive - Load typically has voltage and current out of phase. >(Something >with a winding, like a motor or contactor) > >Incandescent - Load has a large startup current compared to normal running >current. > > >If not qualified it's probably resistive. Your Halogen bulbs present a >"Incandescent" load. > >They draw a LOT of current when they start. They would be OK for your 75W >bulbs. You might be pushing it at 100W. > >They failure will not be a Fuse, or a wire, but burnt (from an arc) >contacts >that may fail to open or more likely to close. > > >r.t.s. > > > _____ > >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard >T. Schaefer >Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:23 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question > > >Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A. > >Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you >will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually >the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!) > > >Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine! > > >r.t.s. > > > _____ > >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm >Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question > > >If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total, >7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole >2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing >lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses? > > >Bevan > >RV7A wiring > > > _____ > >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln >Keill >Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire > >I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to >find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my >methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram >incorrectly? > > >As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled >with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including >the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out >with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20 >AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop >below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times >6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can >handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry >about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the >lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A >fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) >or >a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A. > > >Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your >Support!" > > >Lincoln Keill > >Sacramento, CA > >RV-7A > > >P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11 >system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse >links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage >protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)? > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro >nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > >http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:36 AM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Yes, to clarify... Can I use one double pole switch, rated at 15A, to turn on two 100 watt halogen (Incandescent load) landing lights? The switch poles are not considered to be in parallel because each is sending current to a different location. Also, each circuit has it's own supply wire and fuse. Is this correct? Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard T. Schaefer Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:03 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question You might also look to see if this is a "Resistive" load or an "Incandescent" load or an "Inductive" load rating. Resistive - Load presents a constant current. Inductive - Load typically has voltage and current out of phase. (Something with a winding, like a motor or contactor) Incandescent - Load has a large startup current compared to normal running current. If not qualified it's probably resistive. Your Halogen bulbs present a "Incandescent" load. They draw a LOT of current when they start. They would be OK for your 75W bulbs. You might be pushing it at 100W. They failure will not be a Fuse, or a wire, but burnt (from an arc) contacts that may fail to open or more likely to close. r.t.s. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard T. Schaefer Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:23 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A. Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!) Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine! r.t.s. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total, 7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole 2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses? Bevan RV7A wiring _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram incorrectly? As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20 AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times 6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A. Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your Support!" Lincoln Keill Sacramento, CA RV-7A P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11 system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:55 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question At 11:37 AM 1/4/2008 -0800, you wrote: >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> >Yes, to clarify... > >Can I use one double pole switch, rated at 15A, to turn on two 100 watt >halogen (Incandescent load) landing lights? The switch poles are not >considered to be in parallel because each is sending current to a >different location. Also, each circuit has it's own supply wire and >fuse. Is this correct? > >Bevan Correct. What you propose will be fine. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:39 PM PST US From: "Richard T. Schaefer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Yes _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:38 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Yes, to clarify... Can I use one double pole switch, rated at 15A, to turn on two 100 watt halogen (Incandescent load) landing lights? The switch poles are not considered to be in parallel because each is sending current to a different location. Also, each circuit has it's own supply wire and fuse. Is this correct? Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard T. Schaefer Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:03 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question You might also look to see if this is a "Resistive" load or an "Incandescent" load or an "Inductive" load rating. Resistive - Load presents a constant current. Inductive - Load typically has voltage and current out of phase. (Something with a winding, like a motor or contactor) Incandescent - Load has a large startup current compared to normal running current. If not qualified it's probably resistive. Your Halogen bulbs present a "Incandescent" load. They draw a LOT of current when they start. They would be OK for your 75W bulbs. You might be pushing it at 100W. They failure will not be a Fuse, or a wire, but burnt (from an arc) contacts that may fail to open or more likely to close. r.t.s. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard T. Schaefer Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:23 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Each is 15A. But you should NOT run them in parallel to get 30A. Each switch will close (ARC) at a different time (milli seconds) and you will get a larger load on one or the other instantaneously. (It's actually the switch closing and opening that limits the current range!) Using them to control two circuits in parallel is fine! r.t.s. _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 12:56 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question If a given double pole switch is rated at 15 amps, is that to mean total, 7.5 amps per pole, 15 amps one pole zero for the other, 15 amps each pole 2X15=30? I'm thinking about a double pole switch for two 100 watt landing lights (one per wing tip). Can I use one switch, 2 poles 2 fuses? Bevan RV7A wiring _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lincoln Keill Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: sizing wire I'm almost through "The Aero-Electric Connection" and haven't been able to find the "Six-Step Guide to Sizing Wire" so could someone back me up on my methodology before I go off and size every wire of my wiring diagram incorrectly? As an example: I will have a 75W landing light in each wingtip controlled with one switch with a wire run length for each light of 15 feet (including the ground wire from each lamp to the spar). Worst case (alternator out with a 12V battery), each lamp will draw 6.25A so initially you'd think 20 AWG wire would suffice (7A max) but since we want to keep the voltage drop below 0.5V we need to use 16 AWG wire (15 foot resistance of .06 ohms times 6.25A is .38V which is less than 0.50V drop). Since my 16 AWG wire can handle 12.5A, I could safely use a 10A fuse for each light and not worry about the wire burning up or a premature trip when first turning on the lights. Alternatively, I could use 14 AWG wire (15A max) and a single 15A fuse for both lights. The switch should be either a 2-2 (16AWG scenario) or a 1-2 (14AWG scenario) rated for 15A. Whew! Have I got all that correct? As B&J once said: "Thanks for Your Support!" Lincoln Keill Sacramento, CA RV-7A P.S. Can anyone recommend one supplier to get all the goodies for a Z-11 system (wire, switches, fuse blocks, starter & battery contactors, fuse links, shunts, silicon diode array, ground bus blocks,crowbar overvoltage protection, low voltage module, etc. etc.)? href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: FW: AeroElectric-List: Tap into antenna coax? At 08:05 AM 1/4/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >Reposting since I am still unable to find the link in question. Aka the >commtap > >http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html This comic-book on crafting a panel mounted jack to tap into the comm antenna coax borrowed from this product by ICOM: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_2.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_2.jpg Except that the version I proposed was much more compact: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/CommTap-Jack.jpg However, both designs relied on a miniature, close- circuit phone jack similar to: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Jack.jpg which mates with this plug: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Phone_Plug.jpg The quality of the "closed circuit" switch labeled with the "!" puts the panel mounted comm radio at risk. Switches of this variety tend to get funky with age. They're "closed" at any time the hand held radio is not plugged in such that the comm radio is connected to the antenna. Corrosion on these open, low pressure contacts can cause poor connection to the antenna for the panel mounted radio. Hence, my loss of enthusiasm for this approach to attaching the hand held radio to ship's comm antenna. Until a better idea comes along, consider looping some slack in the comm antenna feedline through the cockpit and breaking it with an in-line pair of connectors: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Female_2.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Male.jpg If you make this joint accessible in the cockpit, then it's easy to open the connectors and route the "slack" up to the hand-held's antenna jack. Consider adding a couple of right-angle adapters to the end of the antenna coax: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Rt-Angle_Adapt_1.jpg These can be used to make a tight u-turn for the antenna feeder such that it will lay tightly against the back of the radio. A rubber-band will keep it snug against the radio. This gets around having the coax make a wide loop above the radio and makes it much easier to handle in the cockpit. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:41 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Help with D-Sub pin At 09:37 PM 12/30/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > >Also, anyone know standard order parts for 37 pin D-Sub pin male/ female >and pins (both) - Mauser or DigiKey? This is to make Avionics >ground bus. http://Steinair.com Dsub pins SA-1018. Get bag of 100. sockets SA-1017, ditto SA-1031 housing for sockets. I couldn't find a housing for pins but I find it difficult to believe he doesn't have them too. If it turns out he doesn't have stock, drop me a note and I'll mail you one. They're cheap. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:02 PM PST US From: "Peter Pengilly" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: handheld radio into intercom Why not? A panel mounted transceiver effectively has the same inputs. I hooked mine up to comm3 on my audio panel as a standby radio. I bought the correct size plugs to go into the handheld, rather than using the headset adapter. Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of The Minearts Sent: 04 January 2008 12:51 Subject: AeroElectric-List: handheld radio into intercom Am I being too simple-minded to think I could connect a handheld transceiver into an intercom (have a Flightcom 403mc) via the headset adaptor jacks? Steve Mineart, CH601, awaiting inspection. Do Not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:47 PM PST US From: "H. M. Haught Jr. " Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Help with D-Sub pin |*My King KX99 handheld radio adapter for Headphone is messing up. I took it to a radio shop and all the connections were resoldered, but it still only works about half the time - I suspect several breaks in the wires. A friend gave me his adapter that came from another type of radio. It has the two plugs for the headset end but also has the push to talk wired into the adapter (the King used a plug that inserts into one of the headset plugs). The other end of the adapter has the correct small mini plug for the "Phones" jack. However the other connector to the radio was a screw on type. There are two wires in that cable, one larger than the other, both with a center insulated wire and a multistrand surrounding which I assume is shielding. I know very little about wiring, as I am sure this message demonstrates! My question is how do I wire the two wires to the mid-sized miniplug to go to the KX 99? That mini-plug has a tip contact area, a second contact are a little further back and the shaft contact area which I assume is the ground.. The plug receptacle on the radio is marked "MIC". A radio tech told me how to wire it, which I did, and then he checked it for me saying I had it wired correctly. However, when I plug it into the radio, it transmits all the time (push to talk always on?). Anyone have a wiring diagram for the KX99 and adapter or can give me an idea on how to wire the mini-plug to the mic receptacle? I've searched extensively on line and cannot find a KX99 wiring diagram. M. Haught*| ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:48 PM PST US From: "H. M. Haught Jr. " Subject: AeroElectric-List: King Hand-held Wiring Diagram or Advice -------- Original Message -------- Subject: King KX99 Handheld Schematic or Advice From: H. M. Haught Jr. References: <5.1.0.14.2.20071231091722.05371040@pop.central.cox.net> |*My King KX99 handheld radio adapter for Headphone is messing up. I took it to a radio shop and all the connections were resoldered, but it still only works about half the time - I suspect several breaks in the wires. A friend gave me his adapter that came from another type of radio. It has the two plugs for the headset end but also has the push to talk wired into the adapter (the King used a plug that inserts into one of the headset plugs). The other end of the adapter has the correct small mini plug for the "Phones" jack. However the other connector to the radio was a screw on type. There are two wires in that cable, one larger than the other, both with a center insulated wire and a multistrand surrounding which I assume is shielding. I know very little about wiring, as I am sure this message demonstrates! My question is how do I wire the two wires to the mid-sized miniplug to go to the KX 99? That mini-plug has a tip contact area, a second contact are a little further back and the shaft contact area which I assume is the ground.. The plug receptacle on the radio is marked "MIC". A radio tech told me how to wire it, which I did, and then he checked it for me saying I had it wired correctly. However, when I plug it into the radio, it transmits all the time (push to talk always on?). Anyone have a wiring diagram for the KX99 and adapter or can give me an idea on how to wire the mini-plug to the mic receptacle? I've searched extensively on line and cannot find a KX99 wiring diagram. M. Haught*| ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:59 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Panel Labeling From: "AlRice" Check out Aircraft Engravers at www.engravers.net. -------- Al Rice Skybolt 260 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156060#156060 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:44 PM PST US From: "mike humphrey" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question Bob, Just a general question for you about the correct gauge wire to use on lights, ie taxi/landing. Math/index chart states 14awg for 100w halogen, but Van's lights, Duckwork is the brand I think, states in their instructions 18awg for 55w or 16awg for 100w halogens. Since Van's sells them for their planes, why the difference in suggested awg? Is this simply a difference in a perfect world theory' or 'what works in the real world'? Your input would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike H 9A/8A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 3:11 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question > > > At 11:37 AM 1/4/2008 -0800, you wrote: > >>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = >>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = >>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = >>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> >>Yes, to clarify... >> >>Can I use one double pole switch, rated at 15A, to turn on two 100 watt >>halogen (Incandescent load) landing lights? The switch poles are not >>considered to be in parallel because each is sending current to a >>different location. Also, each circuit has it's own supply wire and >>fuse. Is this correct? >> >>Bevan > > Correct. What you propose will be fine. > > Bob . . . > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.