Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:56 AM - Re: handheld radio into intercom (Bill Settle)
2. 06:36 AM - Crimp & Insertion Tool (Bill Settle)
3. 08:39 AM - Re: switch rating question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:47 AM - Re: Crimp & Insertion Tool (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:48 AM - Tap into antenna coax? (With Corrected Link) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:38 AM - Re: Crimp & Insertion Tool (Bill Settle)
7. 11:47 AM - Headphone jack (Merlin)
8. 12:13 PM - Re: Headphone jack (Ron Quillin)
9. 12:17 PM - Aux Bat Charging Circuit - Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Bill Schlatterer)
10. 12:40 PM - Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Bill Schlatterer)
12. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Robert Feldtman)
13. 04:05 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Chuck Jensen)
15. 04:11 PM - Re: Low voltage problem in a new plane (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 04:35 PM - Potter/Brumfield W31 used by Cessna (CardinalNSB@aol.com)
17. 05:34 PM - 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? (Don G)
18. 06:00 PM - Re: [Bulk] 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? (Kevin Horton)
19. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Richard T. Schaefer)
20. 06:24 PM - Exploding Capacitors? (darinh)
21. 06:30 PM - Re: [Bulk] 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? (Richard T. Schaefer)
22. 09:13 PM - Re: Headphone jack (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: handheld radio into intercom |
Not at all. This is the way I used to fly all the time.
-------------- Original message from "The Minearts" <smineart@mahaska.org>: --------------
>
> Am I being too simple-minded to think I could connect a handheld transceiver
> into an intercom (have a Flightcom 403mc) via the headset adaptor jacks?
> Steve Mineart, CH601, awaiting inspection.
> Do Not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
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<P>Not at all. This is the way I used to fly all the time.<BR></P>
oElect
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Message 2
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Subject: | Crimp & Insertion Tool |
Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for some AMP-3SK
connectors, and also a source?
Thanks,
Bill Settle
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<DIV>Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for some
AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Bill Settle</DIV>
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Message 3
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Subject: | Re: switch rating question |
At 01:48 AM 1/5/2008 -0500, you wrote:
><mike109g6@insideconnect.net>
>
>Bob,
>Just a general question for you about the correct gauge wire to use on
>lights, ie taxi/landing. Math/index chart states 14awg for 100w halogen,
>but Van's lights, Duckwork is the brand I think, states in their
>instructions 18awg for 55w or 16awg for 100w halogens. Since Van's sells
>them for their planes, why the difference in suggested awg? Is this
>simply a difference in a perfect world theory' or 'what works in the real
>world'? Your input would be appreciated.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Crimp & Insertion Tool |
At 02:35 PM 1/5/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for
>some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?
>
>Thanks,
>Bill Settle
These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock" plastic connectors
with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You can generally
inert these without tools. Further, on the male
pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply
depressing the retention barb on the side of the pin
and withdrawing the crimped assembly.
A suitable tool for crimping is available from
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#BCT-
you're looking for the bct-1
Also see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------)
( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
( appearance of being right . . . )
( )
( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
----------------------------------------
Message 5
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Subject: | Tap into antenna coax? (With Corrected Link) |
At 08:05 AM 1/4/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Reposting since I am still unable to find the link in question. Aka the
>commtap
>
>http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
This comic-book on crafting a panel
mounted jack to tap into the comm antenna
coax borrowed from this product by
ICOM:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_2.jpg
Except that the version I proposed was much
more compact:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/CommTap-Jack.jpg
However, both designs relied on a miniature, close-
circuit phone jack similar to:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Jack.jpg
which mates with this plug:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Phone_Plug.jpg
The quality of the "closed circuit" switch labeled with
the "!" puts the panel mounted comm radio at risk. Switches
of this variety tend to get funky with age. They're "closed"
at any time the hand held radio is not plugged in such
that the comm radio is connected to the antenna. Corrosion
on these open, low pressure contacts can cause poor
connection to the antenna for the panel mounted radio.
Hence, my loss of enthusiasm for this approach to attaching
the hand held radio to ship's comm antenna. Until a better
idea comes along, consider looping some slack in the comm
antenna feedline through the cockpit and breaking it
with an in-line pair of connectors:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Female_2.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Male.jpg
If you make this joint accessible in the cockpit,
then it's easy to open the connectors and route
the "slack" up to the hand-held's antenna jack.
Consider adding a couple of right-angle adapters
to the end of the antenna coax:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Rt-Angle_Adapt_1.jpg
These can be used to make a tight u-turn for the
antenna feeder such that it will lay tightly against
the back of the radio. A rubber-band will keep it
snug against the radio. This gets around having
the coax make a wide loop above the radio and makes
it much easier to handle in the cockpit.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Crimp & Insertion Tool |
Thanks Bob, I appreciate it!
Bill Settle.
-------------- Original message from "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>:
--------------
>
>
> At 02:35 PM 1/5/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for
> >some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Bill Settle
>
> These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock" plastic connectors
> with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You can generally
> inert these without tools. Further, on the male
> pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply
> depressing the retention barb on the side of the pin
> and withdrawing the crimped assembly.
>
> A suitable tool for crimping is available from
> http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#BCT-
>
> you're looking for the bct-1
>
> Also see:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ----------------------------------------)
> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking )
> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )
> ( appearance of being right . . . )
> ( )
> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
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<DIV></DIV>
<P>Thanks Bob, I appreciate it!</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Bill Settle.</P>
<P> </P>
<P><BR> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message from "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>:
-------------- <BR><BR><BR>> --> AeroElectric-List
message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <BR>> <NUCKOLLS.BOB@COX.NET><BR>>
<BR>> At 02:35 PM 1/5/2008 +0000, you wrote: <BR>> <BR>> >Can
some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for <BR>>
>some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source? <BR>> > <BR>> >Thanks,
<BR>> >Bill Settle <BR>> <BR>> These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock"
plastic connectors <BR>> with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You
can generally <BR>> inert these without tools. Further, on the male <BR>>
pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply <BR>> depressing the
retention barb on the side of the pin <BR>> and withdrawing the crimped assembly.
<BR>> <BR>> A suitable tool for crimpi
ng is
-= --&
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Message 7
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|
Hello,
Does someone know a supplier of a headphone jack able to open a circuit
when the headset plug is inserted ? It is to open the circuit of the
loudspeaker...
As usually thanks for your advice :-)
Philippe
RV9A - starting fuselage
Brussels - Belgium
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Headphone jack |
At 11:47 1/5/2008, you wrote:
>Does someone know a supplier of a headphone jack able to open a
>circuit when the headset plug is inserted ? It is to open the
>circuit of the loudspeaker...
Is the circuit to be opened electrically isolated from the headphone,
or is the 'hot' source to the jack common to both the headphone and speaker.
I can think of a number of manufacturers that make switching jacks;
Switchcraft and Neutrix come first to mind as quality and non-Asian.
In the States, Digi-key, Mouser, Newark, Allied all sell in small quantities.
Ron Q.
Message 9
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Subject: | Aux Bat Charging Circuit - Small battery limited to |
3 amp charge rate ?
Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is
not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal operations.
However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus through a D25 diode
which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small battery during normal
operations to keep it charged. It is a fused circuit and intended to be hot
anytime the main bus is on. That way the Aux Bat should be always charged,
available to run the EFIS before and during starting with no draw on it, and
not drain back if the main bus is off. And no switching required during
normal ops.
The Z35 Light Aux Bat figure
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf is similar
except that I think it is intended to be turned on after starting and not be
available from before to after starting.
My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3 amp
charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should be a
resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that the full
size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any danger if the
smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough charging current
to damage it without a limiting resistor.
If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same thing
apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully discharged aux
bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting full current to the
fully discharged battery?
All comments appreciated.
Bill S
7a 80/80
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? |
At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is
>not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small
>battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
>circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the
>Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
>during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3
>amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should
>be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
Thanks Bob, with no chance of sparks and a rare shot at battery damage ($35)
it would seem the answer is to simplify as usual.
Thanks Bill S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ?
--> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that
>is not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the
>small battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a
>fused circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That
>way the Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS
>before and during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the
main bus is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>http:
>//www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a
>3 amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there
>should be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see
that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar every
14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need something more
reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times in between
useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short flights - all
that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical war - does folks
have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne Continental) etc?
And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is the
problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic
shutoff etc.
bobf
On 1/5/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> wrote:
>
> nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
> >Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
> >
> >I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is
> >not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
> >operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
> >through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small
> >battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
> >circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the
> >Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
> >during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is
> >off. And no switching required during normal ops.
> >
> >The Z35 Light Aux Bat
> >figure
> ><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
> >is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
> >starting and not be available from before to after starting.
> >
> >My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3
> >amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there
> should
> >be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that
> >the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
> >danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
> >charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
> >
> >If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
> >thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
> >discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
> >full current to the fully discharged battery?
>
> The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
> is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
> bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
> rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
> I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
> until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
>
> This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
> repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
> putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
> it to it's 100% state of charge.
>
> On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
> to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
> yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
> rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
> to see it happen often.
>
> If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
> of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
> for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
> even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
> the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
>
> However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
> may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
> discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
> considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
> components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
> count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
> no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
At 05:01 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar
>every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need
>something more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times
>in between useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short
>flights - all that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical
>war - does folks have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne
>Continental) etc?
>
>And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is
>the problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic
>shutoff etc.
This sounds like your problems go deeper than battery
quality. I can see the occasional instance of poor battery
performance but Concord is a legacy supplier to the
aviation battery industry and 14 months is too short.
How do you expect your battery to perform? Sounds like
your replacement cycle is dependent simply on the ability
to get the engine started. If you had the "golden" battery,
would you replace it based on capacity (ability to run
ship's loads sans alternator for some pre-determined period
of time) or would you be satisfied if it quit cranking the
engine say, 5 years from now instead of 1 year?
Have you ever put a voltmeter on your battery before
disconnecting the charger to see what the "storage
voltage" value is for this charger? Also, how often do
you fly? What is the perceived value in having the charger
at all if you fly at least once a month?
May I suggest an experiment? Go down to your local
Batteries-R-Us store and pick up a 15 to 20 a.h.,
sealed, vented lead acid battery of this form factor:
http://www.batterystore.com/Yuasa/YuasaPDF/NP18-12.pdf
It doesn't need to be this brand but Yuasa is okay
too. Lots of folks make a suitable battery in these
dimensions and terminal style.
If you have a too-big battery box, put blocks of
styrofoam in beside the battery to keep it from
rattling around.
Get an INDEPENDENT multimeter like:
http://tinyurl.com/yume4t
or
http://tinyurl.com/2duxtp
and check your bus voltage in cruising flight. It
should be no lower than 13.8 volts and no higher
than 14.6 with 14.2 being ideal if you have a
regulator adjustment you can set.
After achieving/confirming the proper system
voltage, put your charger on the battery and
check the battery terminal voltage several hours
after parking the airplane. It should be no higher
than 13.5 volts if it's a "smart charger". If
you confirm that it's not a smart-charger, consider
acquiring one of these products:
http://tinyurl.com/35yvz9
or
http://tinyurl.com/ysueag
or
http://tinyurl.com/2uf6qk
You can probably find the last one of these
at Wally-World for under $20.
These are all smart-chargers designed for
topping off and then dropping to long-term
storage mode after 100% charge has been
achieved.
I'm betting that you can report back to us
in a few years that the $40 el-cheeso, svla
battery out-performed the Concorde . . . but
you may well also report that the Concorde
battery was not being well served either in
flight, in the hangar or both.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
Bob,
Get a 680 or 925 Odyssey and be done with your worries. If its not a 6
cylinder, then the 680 should be ample for your needs. Highly and
uniformly recommended.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
Feldtman
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp
charge rate ?
I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar
every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need
something more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long
times in between useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting)
short flights - all that stuff. Without getting into too much of a
commerical war - does folks have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now
Teledyne Continental) etc?
And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is
the problem although it has the setting for different types and
automatic shutoff etc.
bobf
On 1/5/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@cox.net> wrote:
nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that
is
>not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the
small
>battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
>circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way
the
>Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
>during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus
is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
>< http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a
3
>amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there
should
>be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see
that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
Message 15
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Subject: | Low voltage problem in a new plane |
At 08:41 PM 1/1/2008 -0800, you wrote:
><lgold@quantum-associates.com>
>
>Bob,
>I really think there may be a low voltage problem with my aircraft.
>I followed your instructions and put a smart charger on the battery for a
>full day before a two-hour flight today. With only minimal current draw from
>the Dynon, my ICOM portable VHF, the battery contactor relay, and the
>strobes, the low voltage light would not turn off. When the strobes were
>turned off, the light did extinguish. I put a voltmeter across the battery
>before start-up. It read 12.8V. Is this normal for a new fully charged
>battery?.
Yes . . .
> After landing it read 12.3V. Doesn't this indicate that I have a
>problem and I could loose battery power on a longer flight or when running
>other electrical components?
>I checked all my wires and connections. They appear OK. Unfortunately I
>don't trust the Dynon 180 voltage so I have to find another meter if I want
>in-flight readings. Would you suggest any further testing before
>changing-out the voltage regulator?
Check the voltage in flight with a known-good instrument.
Your alternator should boost the battery to 13.8 to 14.6 volts in cruise.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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Subject: | Potter/Brumfield W31 used by Cessna |
It looks the same in the pictures, but
Does anyone know for a fact if Cessna uses the Potter and Brumfield W31
switch breaker as original equipment in their newer restart" line? Thanks Skip
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 17
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Subject: | 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
Gents,
I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with a 12 v system
in my craft. My question is, will an insturment listed as a 14 volt perfom
ok on a 12 v system?
Thx
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156238#156238
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
On 5-Jan-08, at 20:32 , Don G wrote:
> I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with
> a 12 v system in my craft. My question is, will an insturment
> listed as a 14 volt perfom ok on a 12 v system?
People tend to use the terms "12v" and "14v" interchangeably to
describe electrical systems with batteries that are at about 12v when
at rest, and with alternators that put out about 14v when the engine
is running. This instrument should be fine on your aircraft, assuming
the total electrical load of all systems is low enough to be handled
by your alternator.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate |
?
What Bob is also hinting at is that a "RESISTOR" current limiter does not
allow for proper care and feeding of a battery. The smart battery tenders
that allows proper recovery from a battery in any arbitrary discharge state
is fairly complex and is managed by very smart devices. (Current limited
profiles initially followed by low float current and constant voltage).
If you never let the battery get significantly discharged you do not need to
worry about this complexity. If the fuse popped, check the condition of your
battery, and recover or replace it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ?
<nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated!
>
>I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is
>not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal
>operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus
>through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small
>battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused
>circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the
>Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and
>during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is
>off. And no switching required during normal ops.
>
>The Z35 Light Aux Bat
>figure
><http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf>http://ww
w.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf
>is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after
>starting and not be available from before to after starting.
>
>My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3
>amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should
>be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that
>the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any
>danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough
>charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor.
>
>If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same
>thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully
>discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting
>full current to the fully discharged battery?
The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded
is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported
bus after being completely discharged. This should be a
rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens.
I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator
until the battery was at or nearly depleted.
This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes
repairing the failed alternator and might as well include
putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return
it to it's 100% state of charge.
On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary
to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then
yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge
rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect
to see it happen often.
If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode
of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy
for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and
even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers
the battery for the purpose of extending service life.
However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery
may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply
discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my
considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz
components for pampered recharge only adds to parts
count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute
no measurable increase in service life of the battery.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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Subject: | Exploding Capacitors? |
I am building a Kitfox Series 7 and the wiring diagrams show the alternator lines
being tied to a 22,000 microfarad, 25 V capacitor. This is installed on the
output side of the regulator so I assume it is mainly for audio noise reduction
in the system. My Rotax manual also recommends that I install a capacitor
on each of the fuel pumps for the same reason. I am not an electronics guru
but I do remember blowing up capacitors as a younger kid for fun. I remember
we had to wire the capacitor with reversed polarity to get them to explode but
even the small ones were pretty impressive to say the least! The one I have
in my plane is huge in comparison to the small one I blew up as a kid and looks
as if it could do some serious damage if it went.
for you guys that know more than I do, do I need to be worried about this setup?
And is there another alternative to the capacitor approach to minimize radio
noise?
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156244#156244
Message 21
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Subject: | 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? |
Some "14V" equipment will only work when an engine supplied power source is
providing power. We have tried many older 14V avionics in gliders with only
a "12V" battery and they fail rather quickly as the battery voltage drops.
You really need to know what the acceptable voltage range of the equipment
is and decide if you can live with it when that alternator/generator quits!
r.t.s.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Horton
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] AeroElectric-List: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem?
On 5-Jan-08, at 20:32 , Don G wrote:
> I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with
> a 12 v system in my craft. My question is, will an insturment
> listed as a 14 volt perfom ok on a 12 v system?
People tend to use the terms "12v" and "14v" interchangeably to
describe electrical systems with batteries that are at about 12v when
at rest, and with alternators that put out about 14v when the engine
is running. This instrument should be fine on your aircraft, assuming
the total electrical load of all systems is low enough to be handled
by your alternator.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Headphone jack |
Hi Philippe-
Take a look at this page from the Mouser catalog:
_http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/976.pdf_
(http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/976.pdf)
Maybe you'll see something you can use...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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