---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/05/08: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:56 AM - Re: handheld radio into intercom (Bill Settle) 2. 06:36 AM - Crimp & Insertion Tool (Bill Settle) 3. 08:39 AM - Re: switch rating question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:47 AM - Re: Crimp & Insertion Tool (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:48 AM - Tap into antenna coax? (With Corrected Link) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 10:38 AM - Re: Crimp & Insertion Tool (Bill Settle) 7. 11:47 AM - Headphone jack (Merlin) 8. 12:13 PM - Re: Headphone jack (Ron Quillin) 9. 12:17 PM - Aux Bat Charging Circuit - Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Bill Schlatterer) 10. 12:40 PM - Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Bill Schlatterer) 12. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Robert Feldtman) 13. 04:05 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Chuck Jensen) 15. 04:11 PM - Re: Low voltage problem in a new plane (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 04:35 PM - Potter/Brumfield W31 used by Cessna (CardinalNSB@aol.com) 17. 05:34 PM - 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? (Don G) 18. 06:00 PM - Re: [Bulk] 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? (Kevin Horton) 19. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? (Richard T. Schaefer) 20. 06:24 PM - Exploding Capacitors? (darinh) 21. 06:30 PM - Re: [Bulk] 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? (Richard T. Schaefer) 22. 09:13 PM - Re: Headphone jack (Fiveonepw@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:31 AM PST US From: "Bill Settle" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: handheld radio into intercom Not at all. This is the way I used to fly all the time. -------------- Original message from "The Minearts" : -------------- > > Am I being too simple-minded to think I could connect a handheld transceiver > into an intercom (have a Flightcom 403mc) via the headset adaptor jacks? > Steve Mineart, CH601, awaiting inspection. > Do Not archive > > > > > >

Not at all. This is the way I used to fly all the time.

oElect

________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:52 AM PST US From: "Bill Settle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimp & Insertion Tool Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source? Thanks, Bill Settle

Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?

Thanks,

Bill Settle

________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:35 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: switch rating question At 01:48 AM 1/5/2008 -0500, you wrote: > > >Bob, >Just a general question for you about the correct gauge wire to use on >lights, ie taxi/landing. Math/index chart states 14awg for 100w halogen, >but Van's lights, Duckwork is the brand I think, states in their >instructions 18awg for 55w or 16awg for 100w halogens. Since Van's sells >them for their planes, why the difference in suggested awg? Is this >simply a difference in a perfect world theory' or 'what works in the real >world'? Your input would be appreciated. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimp & Insertion Tool At 02:35 PM 1/5/2008 +0000, you wrote: >Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for >some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source? > >Thanks, >Bill Settle These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock" plastic connectors with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You can generally inert these without tools. Further, on the male pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply depressing the retention barb on the side of the pin and withdrawing the crimped assembly. A suitable tool for crimping is available from http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#BCT- you're looking for the bct-1 Also see: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:33 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Tap into antenna coax? (With Corrected Link) At 08:05 AM 1/4/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >Reposting since I am still unable to find the link in question. Aka the >commtap > >http://aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html This comic-book on crafting a panel mounted jack to tap into the comm antenna coax borrowed from this product by ICOM: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_1.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/ICOM_HH_Adapter_2.jpg Except that the version I proposed was much more compact: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/CommTap-Jack.jpg However, both designs relied on a miniature, close- circuit phone jack similar to: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Jack.jpg which mates with this plug: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Audio/3p5_mm_Phone_Plug.jpg The quality of the "closed circuit" switch labeled with the "!" puts the panel mounted comm radio at risk. Switches of this variety tend to get funky with age. They're "closed" at any time the hand held radio is not plugged in such that the comm radio is connected to the antenna. Corrosion on these open, low pressure contacts can cause poor connection to the antenna for the panel mounted radio. Hence, my loss of enthusiasm for this approach to attaching the hand held radio to ship's comm antenna. Until a better idea comes along, consider looping some slack in the comm antenna feedline through the cockpit and breaking it with an in-line pair of connectors: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Female_2.jpg http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Cable_Male.jpg If you make this joint accessible in the cockpit, then it's easy to open the connectors and route the "slack" up to the hand-held's antenna jack. Consider adding a couple of right-angle adapters to the end of the antenna coax: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/Coax/BNC_Rt-Angle_Adapt_1.jpg These can be used to make a tight u-turn for the antenna feeder such that it will lay tightly against the back of the radio. A rubber-band will keep it snug against the radio. This gets around having the coax make a wide loop above the radio and makes it much easier to handle in the cockpit. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:51 AM PST US From: "Bill Settle" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimp & Insertion Tool Thanks Bob, I appreciate it! Bill Settle. -------------- Original message from "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" : -------------- > > > At 02:35 PM 1/5/2008 +0000, you wrote: > > >Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for > >some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source? > > > >Thanks, > >Bill Settle > > These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock" plastic connectors > with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You can generally > inert these without tools. Further, on the male > pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply > depressing the retention barb on the side of the pin > and withdrawing the crimped assembly. > > A suitable tool for crimping is available from > http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?9X358218#BCT- > > you're looking for the bct-1 > > Also see: > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/matenlok/matenlok.html > > Bob . . . > > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > >

Thanks Bob, I appreciate it!

Bill Settle.

-------------- Original message from "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>: --------------

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> At 02:35 PM 1/5/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >Can some please tell me what crimping tool AND insertion tool I need for
> >some AMP-3SK connectors, and also a source?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Bill Settle
>
> These are the legacy "Mate-n-Lock" plastic connectors
> with open-barrel, sheet-metal pins. You can generally
> inert these without tools. Further, on the male
> pins, you can get them out with a thin awl by simply
> depressing the retention barb on the side of the pin
> and withdrawing the crimped assembly.
>
> A suitable tool for crimpi ng is -= --&

________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:03 AM PST US From: "Merlin" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Headphone jack Hello, Does someone know a supplier of a headphone jack able to open a circuit when the headset plug is inserted ? It is to open the circuit of the loudspeaker... As usually thanks for your advice :-) Philippe RV9A - starting fuselage Brussels - Belgium ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Headphone jack From: Ron Quillin At 11:47 1/5/2008, you wrote: >Does someone know a supplier of a headphone jack able to open a >circuit when the headset plug is inserted ? It is to open the >circuit of the loudspeaker... Is the circuit to be opened electrically isolated from the headphone, or is the 'hot' source to the jack common to both the headphone and speaker. I can think of a number of manufacturers that make switching jacks; Switchcraft and Neutrix come first to mind as quality and non-Asian. In the States, Digi-key, Mouser, Newark, Allied all sell in small quantities. Ron Q. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:55 PM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aux Bat Charging Circuit - Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated! I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is off. And no switching required during normal ops. The Z35 Light Aux Bat figure http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after starting and not be available from before to after starting. My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3 amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor. If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting full current to the fully discharged battery? All comments appreciated. Bill S 7a 80/80 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:07 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote: >Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated! > >I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is >not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal >operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus >through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small >battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused >circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the >Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and >during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is >off. And no switching required during normal ops. > >The Z35 Light Aux Bat >figure >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf >is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after >starting and not be available from before to after starting. > >My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3 >amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should >be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that >the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any >danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough >charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor. > >If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same >thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully >discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting >full current to the fully discharged battery? The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported bus after being completely discharged. This should be a rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens. I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator until the battery was at or nearly depleted. This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes repairing the failed alternator and might as well include putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return it to it's 100% state of charge. On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect to see it happen often. If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers the battery for the purpose of extending service life. However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz components for pampered recharge only adds to parts count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute no measurable increase in service life of the battery. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:00 PM PST US From: "Bill Schlatterer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? Thanks Bob, with no chance of sparks and a rare shot at battery damage ($35) it would seem the answer is to simplify as usual. Thanks Bill S -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:39 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? --> At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote: >Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated! > >I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that >is not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal >operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus >through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the >small battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a >fused circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That >way the Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS >before and during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is >off. And no switching required during normal ops. > >The Z35 Light Aux Bat >figure >http: >//www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf >is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after >starting and not be available from before to after starting. > >My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a >3 amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there >should be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that >the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any >danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough >charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor. > >If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same >thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully >discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting >full current to the fully discharged battery? The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported bus after being completely discharged. This should be a rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens. I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator until the battery was at or nearly depleted. This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes repairing the failed alternator and might as well include putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return it to it's 100% state of charge. On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect to see it happen often. If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers the battery for the purpose of extending service life. However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz components for pampered recharge only adds to parts count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute no measurable increase in service life of the battery. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:37 PM PST US From: "Robert Feldtman" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need something more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times in between useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short flights - all that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical war - does folks have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne Continental) etc? And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is the problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic shutoff etc. bobf On 1/5/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote: > > > >Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated! > > > >I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is > >not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal > >operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus > >through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small > >battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused > >circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the > >Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and > >during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is > >off. And no switching required during normal ops. > > > >The Z35 Light Aux Bat > >figure > > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf > >is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after > >starting and not be available from before to after starting. > > > >My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3 > >amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there > should > >be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that > >the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any > >danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough > >charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor. > > > >If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same > >thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully > >discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting > >full current to the fully discharged battery? > > The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded > is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported > bus after being completely discharged. This should be a > rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens. > I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator > until the battery was at or nearly depleted. > > This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes > repairing the failed alternator and might as well include > putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return > it to it's 100% state of charge. > > On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary > to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then > yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge > rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect > to see it happen often. > > If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode > of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy > for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and > even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers > the battery for the purpose of extending service life. > > However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery > may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply > discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my > considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz > components for pampered recharge only adds to parts > count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute > no measurable increase in service life of the battery. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:54 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? At 05:01 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote: >I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar >every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need >something more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times >in between useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short >flights - all that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical >war - does folks have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne >Continental) etc? > >And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is >the problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic >shutoff etc. This sounds like your problems go deeper than battery quality. I can see the occasional instance of poor battery performance but Concord is a legacy supplier to the aviation battery industry and 14 months is too short. How do you expect your battery to perform? Sounds like your replacement cycle is dependent simply on the ability to get the engine started. If you had the "golden" battery, would you replace it based on capacity (ability to run ship's loads sans alternator for some pre-determined period of time) or would you be satisfied if it quit cranking the engine say, 5 years from now instead of 1 year? Have you ever put a voltmeter on your battery before disconnecting the charger to see what the "storage voltage" value is for this charger? Also, how often do you fly? What is the perceived value in having the charger at all if you fly at least once a month? May I suggest an experiment? Go down to your local Batteries-R-Us store and pick up a 15 to 20 a.h., sealed, vented lead acid battery of this form factor: http://www.batterystore.com/Yuasa/YuasaPDF/NP18-12.pdf It doesn't need to be this brand but Yuasa is okay too. Lots of folks make a suitable battery in these dimensions and terminal style. If you have a too-big battery box, put blocks of styrofoam in beside the battery to keep it from rattling around. Get an INDEPENDENT multimeter like: http://tinyurl.com/yume4t or http://tinyurl.com/2duxtp and check your bus voltage in cruising flight. It should be no lower than 13.8 volts and no higher than 14.6 with 14.2 being ideal if you have a regulator adjustment you can set. After achieving/confirming the proper system voltage, put your charger on the battery and check the battery terminal voltage several hours after parking the airplane. It should be no higher than 13.5 volts if it's a "smart charger". If you confirm that it's not a smart-charger, consider acquiring one of these products: http://tinyurl.com/35yvz9 or http://tinyurl.com/ysueag or http://tinyurl.com/2uf6qk You can probably find the last one of these at Wally-World for under $20. These are all smart-chargers designed for topping off and then dropping to long-term storage mode after 100% charge has been achieved. I'm betting that you can report back to us in a few years that the $40 el-cheeso, svla battery out-performed the Concorde . . . but you may well also report that the Concorde battery was not being well served either in flight, in the hangar or both. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? From: "Chuck Jensen" Bob, Get a 680 or 925 Odyssey and be done with your worries. If its not a 6 cylinder, then the 680 should be ample for your needs. Highly and uniformly recommended. Chuck Jensen -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Feldtman Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 6:02 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? I'm getting sorta tired of replacing my Concorde attery in the Glastar every 14 months or so cause they just won't hold a charge. I need something more reliable than that. -- I know I know - avoiding long times in between useage, cold weather, deep discharge (like starting) short flights - all that stuff. Without getting into too much of a commerical war - does folks have preferences for Concorde vs gill (now Teledyne Continental) etc? And yes I am using an off the shelf Auto zone recharger - maybe that is the problem although it has the setting for different types and automatic shutoff etc. bobf On 1/5/08, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@cox.net> wrote: nuckolls.bob@cox.net> At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote: >Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated! > >I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is >not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal >operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus >through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small >battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused >circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the >Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and >during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is >off. And no switching required during normal ops. > >The Z35 Light Aux Bat >figure >< http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf> http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf >is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after >starting and not be available from before to after starting. > >My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3 >amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should >be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that >the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any >danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough >charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor. > >If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same >thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully >discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting >full current to the fully discharged battery? The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported bus after being completely discharged. This should be a rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens. I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator until the battery was at or nearly depleted. This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes repairing the failed alternator and might as well include putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return it to it's 100% state of charge. On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect to see it happen often. If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers the battery for the purpose of extending service life. However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz components for pampered recharge only adds to parts count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute no measurable increase in service life of the battery. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane At 08:41 PM 1/1/2008 -0800, you wrote: > > >Bob, >I really think there may be a low voltage problem with my aircraft. >I followed your instructions and put a smart charger on the battery for a >full day before a two-hour flight today. With only minimal current draw from >the Dynon, my ICOM portable VHF, the battery contactor relay, and the >strobes, the low voltage light would not turn off. When the strobes were >turned off, the light did extinguish. I put a voltmeter across the battery >before start-up. It read 12.8V. Is this normal for a new fully charged >battery?. Yes . . . > After landing it read 12.3V. Doesn't this indicate that I have a >problem and I could loose battery power on a longer flight or when running >other electrical components? >I checked all my wires and connections. They appear OK. Unfortunately I >don't trust the Dynon 180 voltage so I have to find another meter if I want >in-flight readings. Would you suggest any further testing before >changing-out the voltage regulator? Check the voltage in flight with a known-good instrument. Your alternator should boost the battery to 13.8 to 14.6 volts in cruise. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:34 PM PST US From: CardinalNSB@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Potter/Brumfield W31 used by Cessna It looks the same in the pictures, but Does anyone know for a fact if Cessna uses the Potter and Brumfield W31 switch breaker as original equipment in their newer restart" line? Thanks Skip **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:35 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? From: "Don G" Gents, I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with a 12 v system in my craft. My question is, will an insturment listed as a 14 volt perfom ok on a 12 v system? Thx -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156238#156238 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:25 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: [Bulk] AeroElectric-List: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? On 5-Jan-08, at 20:32 , Don G wrote: > I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with > a 12 v system in my craft. My question is, will an insturment > listed as a 14 volt perfom ok on a 12 v system? People tend to use the terms "12v" and "14v" interchangeably to describe electrical systems with batteries that are at about 12v when at rest, and with alternators that put out about 14v when the engine is running. This instrument should be fine on your aircraft, assuming the total electrical load of all systems is low enough to be handled by your alternator. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:55 PM PST US From: "Richard T. Schaefer" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? What Bob is also hinting at is that a "RESISTOR" current limiter does not allow for proper care and feeding of a battery. The smart battery tenders that allows proper recovery from a battery in any arbitrary discharge state is fairly complex and is managed by very smart devices. (Current limited profiles initially followed by low float current and constant voltage). If you never let the battery get significantly discharged you do not need to worry about this complexity. If the fuse popped, check the condition of your battery, and recover or replace it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 2:39 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Small battery limited to 3 amp charge rate ? At 02:15 PM 1/5/2008 -0600, you wrote: >Wondering how this works ? Help appreciated! > >I have a 7ah battery on a separate bus for EFIS(alternate power) that is >not directly connected to the main bus during starting or normal >operations. However, I do have a charging circuit off the main bus >through a D25 diode which should put 14.4 - .6 or 13.8 volts to the small >battery during normal operations to keep it charged. It is a fused >circuit and intended to be hot anytime the main bus is on. That way the >Aux Bat should be always charged, available to run the EFIS before and >during starting with no draw on it, and not drain back if the main bus is >off. And no switching required during normal ops. > >The Z35 Light Aux Bat >figure >http://ww w.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DCPwr/Z35K_Light_Aux_Battery.pdf >is similar except that I think it is intended to be turned on after >starting and not be available from before to after starting. > >My question: It was just pointed out to me that the 7ah battery has a 3 >amp charging limit (per B&C spec sheet) and I am wondering if there should >be a resistor in this circuit to limit the charging current? I see that >the full size batteries do not have a charging limit. Is there any >danger if the smaller 7ah is fully discharged that it could draw enough >charging current to damage it without a limiting resistor. > >If it does require a resistor for the small battery, wouldn't the same >thing apply to the Z35 figure since you could easily have a fully >discharged aux bat, start the airplane, and then hit the switch putting >full current to the fully discharged battery? The only time the recharge limit might be exceeded is if the battery is connected to and alternator-supported bus after being completely discharged. This should be a rare event and you should be aware of it before it happens. I.e., you were forced to use the aux battery sans alternator until the battery was at or nearly depleted. This scenario generates a maintenance event that includes repairing the failed alternator and might as well include putting a smart charger on the aux battery to GENTLY return it to it's 100% state of charge. On the rare occasion that you find it useful/necessary to recharge the aux battery using ship's alternator, then yes . . . the battery will see an out-of-spec recharge rate for a short period of time. But we wouldn't expect to see it happen often. If you use this battery in a repeated charge/discharge mode of operation . . . like to be the sole source of energy for running a radio in a sailplane, then it's prudent and even practical to acquire a recharging system that pampers the battery for the purpose of extending service life. However, in the case we're considering, the aux battery may be replaced in an few years never having been deeply discharged over the lifetime of its service. It's my considered judgement that adding the extra gee-whiz components for pampered recharge only adds to parts count and pilot/maintenance workload and would contribute no measurable increase in service life of the battery. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:48 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Exploding Capacitors? From: "darinh" I am building a Kitfox Series 7 and the wiring diagrams show the alternator lines being tied to a 22,000 microfarad, 25 V capacitor. This is installed on the output side of the regulator so I assume it is mainly for audio noise reduction in the system. My Rotax manual also recommends that I install a capacitor on each of the fuel pumps for the same reason. I am not an electronics guru but I do remember blowing up capacitors as a younger kid for fun. I remember we had to wire the capacitor with reversed polarity to get them to explode but even the small ones were pretty impressive to say the least! The one I have in my plane is huge in comparison to the small one I blew up as a kid and looks as if it could do some serious damage if it went. for you guys that know more than I do, do I need to be worried about this setup? And is there another alternative to the capacitor approach to minimize radio noise? -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (under Construction) 914 Turbo Ogden, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156244#156244 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:02 PM PST US From: "Richard T. Schaefer" Subject: RE: [Bulk] AeroElectric-List: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? Some "14V" equipment will only work when an engine supplied power source is providing power. We have tried many older 14V avionics in gliders with only a "12V" battery and they fail rather quickly as the battery voltage drops. You really need to know what the acceptable voltage range of the equipment is and decide if you can live with it when that alternator/generator quits! r.t.s. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] AeroElectric-List: 14 v Gyro on a 12 volt sustem? On 5-Jan-08, at 20:32 , Don G wrote: > I am looking at Electric attitude gyros and I have a rotax 912 with > a 12 v system in my craft. My question is, will an insturment > listed as a 14 volt perfom ok on a 12 v system? People tend to use the terms "12v" and "14v" interchangeably to describe electrical systems with batteries that are at about 12v when at rest, and with alternators that put out about 14v when the engine is running. This instrument should be fine on your aircraft, assuming the total electrical load of all systems is low enough to be handled by your alternator. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (final assemby) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:44 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Headphone jack Hi Philippe- Take a look at this page from the Mouser catalog: _http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/976.pdf_ (http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/976.pdf) Maybe you'll see something you can use... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.