Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:15 AM - Power Conditioning circuits (Peter Mather)
2. 07:54 AM - Electrical System Reliability (and other ???) ()
3. 08:21 AM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Ernest Christley)
4. 11:41 AM - Re: Power Conditioning circuits (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 01:44 PM - Re: Rebuilding Gyros (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 03:56 PM - Re: Rebuilding Gyros (bob noffs)
7. 03:56 PM - Re: Low voltage problem resolved (Les Goldner)
8. 04:56 PM - Fw: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine (Gaye and Vaughn)
9. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Exploding Capacitors? (Daniel Langhout)
10. 07:14 PM - Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag) (Dan Langhout)
11. 07:15 PM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Greg Young)
12. 08:44 PM - Wingtip Antenna Grounding (Sully)
13. 09:23 PM - Looking good for the seminar (Don Hall)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Power Conditioning circuits |
Bob
You have explained many times how avionics should be able to withstand the
vagaries of aircraft power without the need for an avionics master. I'm
playing around with some pal based circuits to provide derived information
in the cockpit using the serial outputs from the dynon and GPS. Do you have
a standard circuit you can recommend to take the aircraft power and derive a
safe supply to the electronics. Currently I'm just using a diode to protect
against reverse polarity, a transorb to take out the worst spikes and the
usual 7805 with a couple of capacitors either side of it.
Any info or suggestions gratefully received
Best regards
Peter
Message 2
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| Subject: | Electrical System Reliability (and other ???) |
1/8/2008
Hello Mark Richards, You wrote: "I really don't understand what P-leads are
or the difference
between P-mags and E-mags. What do I have with the LASAR system???"
I admire your very ambitious design effort and your willingness to ask
questions. But the elephant cannot be eaten in one setting or with one
bite -- just keep nibbling away.
To answer one question and make suggestions:
1) P leads are the means of turning a conventional magneto OFF by preventing
it from sending high voltage electricity to the spark plugs.
The P lead electrical connection on the external surface of a magneto is
connected to the primary coil (hence the nomenclature "P") inside the
magneto. If the primary coil is connected to ground via the P lead, usually
by means of an "ignition switch", then the magneto is considered OFF and
will generate no high voltage spark.
2) If you will go to the emagair web site you will be able to learn the
difference between a P mag and an E mag. http://www.emagair.com/
3) Unison has a number of publications available on their Lasar ignition
system. Some they will send you for free, others will cost money. I suggest
that you contact them and request the free information and learn what is
available at cost.
http://www.unisonindustries.com/ourproducts/lasarelectronicignition.html
You need to do much more research on the Lasar system before you are ready
to make a decision on whether to use it or not.
Please continue to ask specific questions and we will do our best to help.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Question about Annunciating Lights |
>> I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for
>> each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you do not get
>> bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the one that is lit.
>>
Look at some of those "Daily Dose" medicine organizers at the drug
store. They have little compartments for each day of the week. Might
find something similar in a bait'n'tackle shop.
Another option is to get a strip of 1/4" plexiglass or even black
delrin. A 3/16" bit will drill a hole that is a push fit for a 5mm
LED. The 10 degree spread LED won't bleed over into adjacent areas much.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Power Conditioning circuits |
At 10:56 AM 1/8/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Bob
>
>You have explained many times how avionics should be able to withstand the
>vagaries of aircraft power without the need for an avionics master. I'm
>playing around with some pal based circuits to provide derived information
>in the cockpit using the serial outputs from the dynon and GPS. Do you
>have a standard circuit you can recommend to take the aircraft power and
>derive a safe supply to the electronics. Currently I'm just using a diode
>to protect against reverse polarity, a transorb to take out the worst
>spikes and the usual 7805 with a couple of capacitors either side of it.
>
>Any info or suggestions gratefully received
Sure. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/power_conditioning.pdf
This is an excerpt from a program I'm doing for a client
that illustrates the general arrangement for achieving
a variety of power supplies and interfacing them with
aircraft wiring where inputs will be subject to 80v
100 mS spikes, 40V 1-second surge, HIRF, conducted
noise, and lightning.
I think this diagram will get you moving in the right
direction for achieving the desired level of immunity
from the wild-and-wooly critters that roam around
and near airplanes. Study this a bit and come back with
questions.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rebuilding Gyros |
Marty,
Really now, do yourself a favour and get rid of those gyros....Yes you can work
on them yourself but why would you want to?
Personally the closest any mechanical gyro is getting to my airplane is the certified
Cessna across the ramp!
I would sell them on Ebay and buy a Dynon...Way more reliable, will actually work,
will withstand aerobatics.
Frank
RV7a Io360 IFR all glass with ASI and ALT steam guage backups.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Emrath
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rebuilding Gyros
I've a couple of Electric Gyros (AI and DG) that need new bearings. For an experimental
I'm under the impression I can work on these instruments myself. Has
anyone else done this and know a source for the bearings?
Suggestions on who might be considered to do the overhaul without a yellow tag
would also be appreciated.
Marty in Brentwood. RV-6A finishing.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding Gyros |
frank,
yes, you can build your own airplane but who would want to? to each his
own.
bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:50 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Rebuilding Gyros
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Marty,
>
> Really now, do yourself a favour and get rid of those gyros....Yes you can
> work on them yourself but why would you want to?
>
> Personally the closest any mechanical gyro is getting to my airplane is
> the certified Cessna across the ramp!
>
> I would sell them on Ebay and buy a Dynon...Way more reliable, will
> actually work, will withstand aerobatics.
>
> Frank
> RV7a Io360 IFR all glass with ASI and ALT steam guage backups.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Emrath
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:25 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rebuilding Gyros
>
>
> I've a couple of Electric Gyros (AI and DG) that need new bearings. For
> an experimental I'm under the impression I can work on these instruments
> myself. Has anyone else done this and know a source for the bearings?
> Suggestions on who might be considered to do the overhaul without a yellow
> tag would also be appreciated.
>
> Marty in Brentwood. RV-6A finishing.
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Low voltage problem resolved |
Bob,
I think I found the problem (but can't be sure until the weather clears and
I fly the plane). The fuselink between SW1-4 and the Alternator controller
was blown. It likely shorting out during construction because it isn't
shorting now.
After spending 9-hours trying to track-down the problem I have a concern
about fuselinks. Unlike a fuse, you can't see that a fuselink has blown. Had
I used a fuse rather than a fuselink I would have found the problem in
minutes. Since my fuse holder is right next to the fuselink and I won't
expose the circuit to extra lengths of non-fused wire, I plan to replace the
fuselink with a 1-AMP ATC (bayonet type) fuse on my main buss.
Regards,
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 4:09 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low voltage problem in a new plane
>
> --> <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
>
> At 08:41 PM 1/1/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>
> ><lgold@quantum-associates.com>
> >
> >Bob,
> >I really think there may be a low voltage problem with my aircraft.
> >I followed your instructions and put a smart charger on the
> battery for
> >a full day before a two-hour flight today. With only minimal current
> >draw from the Dynon, my ICOM portable VHF, the battery
> contactor relay,
> >and the strobes, the low voltage light would not turn off. When the
> >strobes were turned off, the light did extinguish. I put a voltmeter
> >across the battery before start-up. It read 12.8V. Is this
> normal for a
> >new fully charged battery?.
>
> Yes . . .
>
> > After landing it read 12.3V. Doesn't this indicate that I have a
> >problem and I could loose battery power on a longer flight or when
> >running other electrical components?
> >I checked all my wires and connections. They appear OK.
> Unfortunately I
> >don't trust the Dynon 180 voltage so I have to find another
> meter if I
> >want in-flight readings. Would you suggest any further
> testing before
> >changing-out the voltage regulator?
>
> Check the voltage in flight with a known-good instrument.
> Your alternator should boost the battery to 13.8 to 14.6
> volts in cruise.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fw: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine |
I have received the following reply from the ULPower representatvie to
my question, "Why do I not need to include crowbar OV protection with
this engine?"
Our electronics guy sent me a diagram showing the principle of how our
type of regulator works. He says (in Dutch below) that:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
our type is a "shunt" regulator which shorts the PMG to ground when the
battery voltage increases above the nominal level so that the battery
can never be over charged and damaged.
The principle of a PMG is different to a Regulated Field Generator
(typical in cars) where the magnetic field is regulated to vary the
voltage of the generator.
A PMG acts as a constant current source and therefore may be shorted
out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
The regulator / rectifier we use is typically used on large capacity
motorbikes and our supplier says they are very robust.
He also sent the attached schematic:
So as I see it, the attached schematic for my airplane should be
sufficient.
Vaughn Teegarden
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Exploding Capacitors? |
>
>
>
> <snip>
> At Revision 12, all of the PM alternator drawings
> will be updated to place OV disconnect in the AC
> output lines of the alternator as depicted in Z-16.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> </snip>
>
>
>
So what will happen to the "self exciting" feature ah la Z-25? Is this
an either/or situation?
Dan Langhout
Message 10
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| Subject: | Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag) |
Let me start off with stating that I absolutely agree with Bob's
statement about Z-13 - "I can deduce no other configuration that
delivers more value". Use of the self powered Pmag for one of the
ignitions should ensure that the big fan keeps turning regardless of
what the rest of the electrical system is up to. But what if you want
to use something other than a Pmag? Lets say dual Lightspeeds or
something else?
Now I know that these would both be attached to the battery buss so they
are independent of the battery contactor, and the backup SD-8 and
battery could carry them after failure of the primary alternator. I
would agree that this is probably enough. But there is still one
failure mode, however remote, that could give a problem - battery
failing open, battery failing short, battery cable falling off, etc.
Now I know that this is exceeding unlikely but the probability is not
zero. If I understand things correctly, the main alternator
could/would? fail due to the "missing" battery and since the SD-8
backup was off line, both ignition systems would quit. Depending on if
the SD-8 was wired according to Z-25 (self exciting) and the prop was
still turning, you perhaps could get things going again but it might get
tense for awhile.
Here's an idea:
Incorporate the self exciting feature of Z-25 into Z-13/8 to guarantee
that the SD-8 was up and running even without a preflight check. Then,
provide the power feed to one of the ignitions from the junction of the
two steering diodes used to provide power to the Z-25 OV relay (the
diodes might have to be up-sized for higher current). Under normal
operation, this ignition would get its feed through the battery buss
connected diode. If/when the SD-8 output voltage exceeded the normal
buss voltage, the SD-8 would carry the load. Most importantly, the
ignition would be instantly "on" the SD-8 after any other failure of the
electrical system causing low (or no) voltage, including the unlikely
departure of the battery.
The only problem I see with this arrangement is that this ignition
system would not be protected from an SD-8 system over voltage event.
This might not be an issue with the Lightspeed which supposedly is good
from 4-35V but could be with other systems.
So, am I totally out to lunch here? Am I attempting to solve a
non-problem? What do you think?
Dan Langhout
Message 11
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| Subject: | Question about Annunciating Lights |
I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic
strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate
to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the
egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal.
Regards,
Greg Young
>
> >> I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for
> >> each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you
> do not get
> >> bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the
> one that is lit.
> >>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Wingtip Antenna Grounding |
I am considering using the wingtip Nav antenna detailed in the Aero Electric Connection
and have a couple of questions. First I intend to install the tips on
my RV 7 with piano hinges and was wondering if this will provide adequate ground
plane connection to the wing box, provided I secure the antenna element to
one half of the hinge. Second when comparing to the commercially available version
of this antenna to the DIY version all the elements are made from flat stock
and the DIY version incorporates an angle for one of the elements with an
undefined length, has anyone built this using all flat stock of some length?
Thanks
--------
Sully
RV-7 In-work
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156847#156847
Message 13
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| Subject: | Looking good for the seminar |
Fellow builders,
I just checked Bob's site and we're just one shy of the required 15 to hold
the seminar. I'd say our chances are pretty good right now.
I met with the EAA690 board tonight to discuss some logistics. To keep the
seminar flowing along and comfortable, we need to provide (2) continental
breakfasts, (1) lunch, coffee, drinks, and snack foods. Bob's fee for the
seminar itself is $185, due at the beginning of the seminar. The chapter
would also like to also collect $30 from everyone attending to cover
food/facility charges. Almost all of that goes into your belly. Maybe a
buck or two will be left over for the chapter for operational costs.
If that seems unreasonable, please let me know. The chapter is very
determined that you feel welcome spending the weekend in their hangar.
Dinner on Saturday night is NOT included. I think it would be great to find
a spot nearby and go tell builder war stories over a few beers, cokes, or
tacos.
How many of you are out-of-towners coming in the night before? The chapter
would like to invite you to the meeting on Friday night. I'm not sure what
the agenda is yet, but it'll be posted on their website soon.
www.eaa690.org
If you want any local advice or help, let me know. I would also be happy to
serve as taxi for any out of towners and save them the trouble of a rental
car.
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal
George
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an
aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast...
I'm in...
Neal E. George
2023 Everglades Drive
Navarre, FL 32566
Home - 850-515-0640
Cell - 850-218-4838
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric
seminar in the Southeast...
I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with
me.
Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008.
Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested,
I'll contact Bob and secure a facility.
Thanks,
******************************************
Don Hall
N517DG (registered)
rv7 finishing
******************************************
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