AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 01/09/08


Total Messages Posted: 51



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:50 AM - Re: Low voltage problem resolved (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 12:52 AM - Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions (Tim Lewis)
     3. 12:57 AM - Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
     4. 01:17 AM - Shielded Wire (FLAGSTONE)
     5. 01:23 AM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Pascal GROELL)
     6. 01:57 AM - Re: Re: Exploding Capacitors? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 01:59 AM - Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag) (Daniel L. Langhout)
     8. 02:20 AM - Re: Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 02:43 AM - Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding (JOHN TIPTON)
    10. 03:02 AM - OV Modules (noelk)
    11. 03:43 AM - Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions (Ralph Hoover)
    12. 04:27 AM - Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding (Sully)
    13. 04:29 AM - Re: Looking good for the seminar (Sam Hoskins)
    14. 04:41 AM - Re: Looking good for the seminar (Rodney Dunham, M.D.)
    15. 05:57 AM - Intercom wires (Michael Hinchcliff)
    16. 06:44 AM - Re: OV Modules (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 06:44 AM - Re: Power Conditioning circuits (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
    18. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding (JOHN TIPTON)
    19. 06:51 AM - Re: Intercom wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    20. 07:03 AM - Re: Intercom wires (Joe Dubner)
    21. 07:05 AM - Re: Looking good for the seminar ()
    22. 07:06 AM - Seminar (Fergus Kyle)
    23. 07:14 AM - Re: Looking good for the seminar ()
    24. 08:02 AM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    25. 08:05 AM - Re: Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    26. 08:34 AM - Re: Shielded Wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    27. 09:01 AM - Audio panel #inputs vs #sources (Ralph E. Capen)
    28. 09:47 AM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Carlos Trigo)
    29. 10:00 AM - Re: Intercom wires (Carlos Trigo)
    30. 10:51 AM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Bret Smith)
    31. 10:57 AM - Annunciator Panel (Dennis Johnson)
    32. 11:01 AM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Jeff Page)
    33. 11:49 AM - Re: Power Conditioning circuits ()
    34. 11:56 AM - Re: Annunciator Panel (Ernest Christley)
    35. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Question about Annunciating Lights ()
    36. 11:59 AM - essential bus wire routing: keep away from you first-class galley (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
    37. 12:00 PM - Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop (Ralph E. Capen)
    38. 12:16 PM - Rotax 914 capacitor (Kevin Klinefelter)
    39. 12:25 PM - Re: Annunciator Panel (Greg Young)
    40. 12:59 PM - Re: Annunciator Panel (Ernest Christley)
    41. 01:37 PM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Scott R. Shook)
    42. 03:08 PM - XM radio power cord (Dale Ensing)
    43. 06:14 PM - Re: Shielded Wire (FLAGSTONE)
    44. 07:19 PM - Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? (Charlie England)
    45. 08:10 PM - Re: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? (Michel Creek)
    46. 08:47 PM - Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop (Ken)
    47. 08:53 PM - Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
    48. 09:01 PM - Re: Seminar (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
    49. 09:15 PM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
    50. 09:44 PM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Carl Morgan)
    51. 10:36 PM - Re: Question about Annunciating Lights (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:50:57 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Low voltage problem resolved
    At 11:36 AM 1/8/2008 -0800, you wrote: ><lgold@quantum-associates.com> > >Bob, >I think I found the problem (but can't be sure until the weather clears and >I fly the plane). The fuselink between SW1-4 and the Alternator controller >was blown. It likely shorting out during construction because it isn't >shorting now. >After spending 9-hours trying to track-down the problem I have a concern >about fuselinks. Unlike a fuse, you can't see that a fuselink has blown. Had >I used a fuse rather than a fuselink I would have found the problem in >minutes. Since my fuse holder is right next to the fuselink and I won't >expose the circuit to extra lengths of non-fused wire, I plan to replace the >fuselink with a 1-AMP ATC (bayonet type) fuse on my main buss. >Regards, >Les I'm sorry that it took you so long to track this down but a fusible link was selected for this application because of its very long time constant. I you put a fuse in that slot, it will have to be much larger than the downstream breaker so that the crowbar system opens the breaker without opening the fuse. The usual approach to troubleshooting these kinds of issues is by judicious probing with a voltmeter. Only after the open circuit is isolated down to a manageable segment does the visual inspection mode of investigation kick in. I'll recommend you stay with the fusible link in this situation. Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:52:13 AM PST US
    From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
    Subject: Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions
    The ICOM IC-A200 (VHF Comm radio) installation instruction (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/Icom_ICA200_Installation_Manual.pdf) depicts a 10 amp breaker, and tells the installer to "Use 2 pairs of #18 AWG wires for power and power grounding wiring." This struck me as odd, since a single 18 AWG wire is normally used with a 10 amp breaker, and since the IC-A200 is rated to draw only 2.6 amps (during transmit). I called ICOM tech support and spoke to Mike, who told me that I should indeed use two 18 AWG wires for power and two 18 AWG wires for ground, and that the two wires should be twisted together "to reduce interference". He further recommended twisting the end of the two wires together, aided by solder, and crimping this assembly into the supplied Molex terminal. I expressed some skepticism about the efficacy of twisting two 12V power wires together to reduce interference. I was unable to elicit an explanation of the mechanism by which the alleged interference reduction was to be achieved. I was also unable to elicit an explanation of why it should take two 18AWG wires in parallel to supply 2.6 Amps (peak) to a radio. I elected not to engage Mike in a discussion of the advisability of crimping a connector to a soldered wire. Does anybody have insight into reasoning or experience that lends credibility to the idea that two 18 AWG wires should be used for power (and two for ground) in an ICOM IC-A200 radio installation? Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 975 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction


    Message 3


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    Time: 12:57:59 AM PST US
    From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding
    Hi Sully- I recently installed a Bob Archer VOR antenna in a second set of hinge-mounted tips- I spoke with Bob how to best accomplish this and riveted the base strip of the antenna that is normally grounded to the wing skin with the tip mounting screws directly on top of the lower tip-side hinge half using the same soft rivets used for the rest of the hinge. Works great. Might work as well for DIY version. If interested, holler at me off-list for foto of installation. I've also simplified the hinge method of installation from my original as recounted in the RVator, but haven't written up the procedure yet, so contact me off-list for details. >From The PossumWorks in TN, Mark Phillips, RV-6A "Mojo" _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:17:27 AM PST US
    From: "FLAGSTONE" <flagstone@cox.net>
    Subject: Shielded Wire
    Bob: I've read thru the various sections of the book on grounding, wire selection, noise etc, as well as the Blue Mountain article and the FAQ. I already done some wiring in my wing and I'm concerned now that I may have done it incorrectly. Electrically, my wing contains: Strobe light, power supply mounted at wing tip Nav Light Landing light Taxi light Pitot heat power Pitot heat controller Fuel pump Fuel flow sensor Remote compass Potentiometer I used twisted shielded wire for all wires with return wires for all power supplies. It was intended that all the return wires would terminate at what you call a "single point" ground. All power leads/returns are routed thru the nose ribs, all control/sensor wires are routed along the rear spar. They don't come together until the panel. The wing is all metal, fuselage is truss tube. For each power lead, I connected the shielding and the return wire together at the load location and grounded them locally as well as running the return wire back to the "single point" ground. Then, I was going to connect the return wire and the shielding at the "single point" and ground again there. In reading Blue Mountain's comment, "Shields are connected at the source end, and cut off flush at the load end" and your comment on pg 18-14, "I'll further suggest that there's is greater risk that shielding improperly terminated at both ends is 100x more likely to be the root cause of a noise problem.....", indicates that what I have done may cause problems. It was my understanding at the time that that was the correct way to do it. Now I can't find what led me to that understanding. For better or worse, I'm stuck using the shielded wire so what should I do to properly install it. Does it cause problems to ground the shield at both ends. Does it cause problems to ground the return wire locally and back at the "single point ground." Your comments and explanation would be appreciated. Thanks Mark


    Message 5


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    Time: 01:23:36 AM PST US
    From: "Pascal GROELL" <pgroell@yahoo.fr>
    Subject: Question about Annunciating Lights
    I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce. http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes Looks pretty neat to me. Pascal www.notreavion.net -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Greg Young Envoy: mardi 8 janvier 2008 18:48 : aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Objet: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal. Regards, Greg Young > > >> I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for > >> each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you > do not get > >> bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the > one that is lit. > >> >


    Message 6


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    Time: 01:57:27 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Exploding Capacitors?
    At 04:22 PM 1/8/2008 -0600, you wrote: > > >> >> >> >><snip> >> At Revision 12, all of the PM alternator drawings >> will be updated to place OV disconnect in the AC >> output lines of the alternator as depicted in Z-16. >> >> >> Bob . . . >></snip> >> >> >> >> >> >> >So what will happen to the "self exciting" feature ah la Z-25? Is this an >either/or situation? No, ALL configurations using the SD-8 will include self-excitation. I can't recommend or even deduce the need for adding self-excitation to other products. I don't know enough about them. But you can certainly use the SD-8 without this feature. There are probably 1000 or so flying with out it. The chances of really NEEDING it are small. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:59:31 AM PST US
    From: "Daniel L. Langhout" <dllang@hiwaay.net>
    Subject: Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag)
    Let me start off with stating that I absolutely agree with Bob's statement about Z-13 - "I can deduce no other configuration that delivers more value". Use of the self powered Pmag for one of the ignitions should ensure that the big fan keeps turning regardless of what the rest of the electrical system is up to. But what if you want to use something other than a Pmag? Lets say dual Lightspeeds or something else? Now I know that these would both be attached to the battery buss so they are independent of the battery contactor, and the backup SD-8 and battery could carry them after failure of the primary alternator. I would agree that this is probably enough. But there is still one failure mode, however remote, that could give a problem - battery failing open, battery failing short, battery cable falling off, etc. Now I know that this is exceeding unlikely but the probability is not zero. If I understand things correctly, the main alternator could/would? fail due to the "missing" battery and since the SD-8 backup was off line, both ignition systems would quit. Depending on if the SD-8 was wired according to Z-25 (self exciting) and the prop was still turning, you perhaps could get things going again but it might get tense for awhile. Here's an idea: Incorporate the self exciting feature of Z-25 into Z-13/8 to guarantee that the SD-8 was up and running even without a preflight check. Then, provide the power feed to one of the ignitions from the junction of the two steering diodes used to provide power to the Z-25 OV relay (the diodes might have to be up-sized for higher current). Under normal operation, this ignition would get its feed through the battery buss connected diode. If/when the SD-8 output voltage exceeded the normal buss voltage, the SD-8 would carry the load. Most importantly, the ignition would be instantly "on" the SD-8 after any other failure of the electrical system causing low (or no) voltage, including the unlikely departure of the battery. The only problem I see with this arrangement is that this ignition system would not be protected from an SD-8 system over voltage event. This might not be an issue with the Lightspeed which supposedly is good from 4-35V but could be with other systems. So, am I totally out to lunch here? Am I attempting to solve a non-problem? What do you think? Dan Langhout


    Message 8


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    Time: 02:20:56 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Figure Z-13/8 with Dual EI (non-P/Emag)
    At 08:34 PM 1/8/2008 -0600, you wrote: > >Let me start off with stating that I absolutely agree with Bob's >statement about Z-13 - "I can deduce no other configuration that >delivers more value". Use of the self powered Pmag for one of the >ignitions should ensure that the big fan keeps turning regardless of >what the rest of the electrical system is up to. But what if you want >to use something other than a Pmag? Lets say dual Lightspeeds or >something else? > >Now I know that these would both be attached to the battery buss so they >are independent of the battery contactor, and the backup SD-8 and >battery could carry them after failure of the primary alternator. I >would agree that this is probably enough. But there is still one >failure mode, however remote, that could give a problem - battery >failing open, battery failing short, battery cable falling off, etc. >Now I know that this is exceeding unlikely but the probability is not >zero. If I understand things correctly, the main alternator >could/would? fail due to the "missing" battery and since the SD-8 >backup was off line, both ignition systems would quit. no, an alternator once running will continue to run unless hit with a transient load (big landing lights, landing gear pump motor, etc) that exceeds nameplate rating. Then it MIGHT stall . . . but I'm hearing that many alternators will self excite at the speeds we turn them on the front of a Lycoming. So no, loss of battery is not automatically a dark-panel situation. > Depending on if >the SD-8 was wired according to Z-25 (self exciting) and the prop was >still turning, you perhaps could get things going again but it might get >tense for awhile. > >Here's an idea: > >Incorporate the self exciting feature of Z-25 into Z-13/8 to guarantee >that the SD-8 was up and running even without a preflight check. If you incorporate the OV relay that opens the AC windings (preferred method) then the SD-8 comes up only after being turned ON at the panel. > Then, >provide the power feed to one of the ignitions from the junction of the >two steering diodes used to provide power to the Z-25 OV relay (the >diodes might have to be up-sized for higher current). Under normal >operation, this ignition would get its feed through the battery buss >connected diode. If/when the SD-8 output voltage exceeded the normal >buss voltage, the SD-8 would carry the load. Most importantly, the >ignition would be instantly "on" the SD-8 after any other failure of the >electrical system causing low (or no) voltage, including the unlikely >departure of the battery. > >The only problem I see with this arrangement is that this ignition >system would not be protected from an SD-8 system over voltage event. >This might not be an issue with the Lightspeed which supposedly is good >from 4-35V but could be with other systems. > >So, am I totally out to lunch here? Am I attempting to solve a >non-problem? What do you think? Lost of a well maintained RG battery (or even a flooded battery) is so remote that I've never seen this scenario considered in a failure mode effects analysis. It's sorta like worrying about prop bolts failing. You're probably 100x more likely to suffer an open battery contactor due to wiring or contactor failure . . . this is why Z-13/8 was crafted in the two-layer philosophy wherein the battery contactor is not needed for operation of the backup alternator. The "cleaner" approach to addressing this concern is to avoid electrical system dependent ignition systems; install one or two p-mags . . . The most likely loss of battery scenario will hinge on failed fasteners (over or under torqued) and this can happen ANYWHERE in the system, including the feed to the battery bus. Craftsmanship is the best prophylactic against such losses . . . just like putting proper torque on the prop bolts. Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:43:41 AM PST US
    From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding
    Hi Sully I'm interested in the reason why you are deviating from the standard mounting for the wing tips, to 'piano hinges', do you intend to put the 'hinge' fully around the curve of the leading edge !!! I'm sure that if this was standard way offered, many would move away from it to the current options offered by VANS Just curious John - wings RV-9a ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sully" <mr.sully@tx.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:43 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wingtip Antenna Grounding > > I am considering using the wingtip Nav antenna detailed in the Aero > Electric Connection and have a couple of questions. First I intend to > install the tips on my RV 7 with piano hinges and was wondering if this > will provide adequate ground plane connection to the wing box, provided I > secure the antenna element to one half of the hinge. Second when comparing > to the commercially available version of this antenna to the DIY version > all the elements are made from flat stock and the DIY version incorporates > an angle for one of the elements with an undefined length, has anyone > built this using all flat stock of some length? > Thanks > > -------- > Sully > RV-7 In-work > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156847#156847 > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:02:35 AM PST US
    Subject: OV Modules
    From: "noelk" <noelk@pcug.org.au>
    The OV Module in the Z-figures (in particular, Z-20, which is the one I am using), show the OV module connected to the output side of the master switch. It would be physically more convenient for me to wire it to the output side of the 5A circuit breaker. If I understand the way the OVM works, I think this should be electrically equivalent. However, I thought it best to check with the experts first, in case there are any factors I am not aware of. Noel Karppinen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156910#156910


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:43:43 AM PST US
    From: Ralph Hoover <hooverra@verizon.net>
    Subject: Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions
    Tim, My guess is that since the power uses 2 molex pins 14, R it is a mechanical thing (1 wire per pin) the twist and solder part is BS IMHO. The ground could be 4 18-20 ga to maintain 1 pin per crimp. these can go all the way to the ground point or joined to 1 or 2 wires, your choice. As far as I can see from a grounding point of view you are trying to maintain the signal ground at the same potential as the airframe/battery. The IR drop wants to be as low as possible to achieve this, lower than may be acceptable for the power leads. That said you may want all 4 wires to go to ground. I think that the mechanical issues and the redundant contacts at the card edge connector are the overriding concerns here. If there is another explanation based on physics it escapes me (possible). -- Ralph C. Hoover RV7A hooverra at verizon dot net


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:27:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding
    From: "Sully" <mr.sully@tx.rr.com>
    Mark, Thank You that was exactly what I was considering, I'll contact you off list for your improvements. John, I am doing this for a couple of reasons; easy access to perform service/maintenance inside of the tips (AOA, antenna, strobes, etc) and it eliminates the screws and nut plates which can get pretty ratty looking after a period of time. Mark Phillips developed this and its pretty slick. I've seen it at Sun-n Fun on a couple of different aircraft and it looks great. Check it out at Mark's site http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_list&c=19 -------- Sully RV-7 In-work Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156917#156917


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:29:27 AM PST US
    From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@MCHSI.COM>
    Subject: Re: Looking good for the seminar
    It might me more helpful if you made a note of the city and state the seminar was to be held. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL On Jan 8, 2008 10:53 PM, Don Hall <dhall@donka.net> wrote: > Fellow builders, > > I just checked Bob's site and we're just one shy of the required 15 to > hold the seminar. I'd say our chances are pretty good right now. > > I met with the EAA690 board tonight to discuss some logistics. To keep > the seminar flowing along and comfortable, we need to provide (2) > continental breakfasts, (1) lunch, coffee, drinks, and snack foods. Bob's > fee for the seminar itself is $185, due at the beginning of the > seminar. The chapter would also like to also collect $30 from everyone > attending to cover food/facility charges. Almost all of that goes into your > belly. Maybe a buck or two will be left over for the chapter for > operational costs. > > If that seems unreasonable, please let me know. The chapter is > very determined that you feel welcome spending the weekend in their > hangar. Dinner on Saturday night is NOT included. I think it would be > great to find a spot nearby and go tell builder war stories over a few > beers, cokes, or tacos. > > How many of you are out-of-towners coming in the night before? The > chapter would like to invite you to the meeting on Friday night. I'm not > sure what the agenda is yet, but it'll be posted on their website soon. > www.eaa690.org > > If you want any local advice or help, let me know. I would also be happy > to serve as taxi for any out of towners and save them the trouble of a > rental car. > > > ****************************************** > Don Hall > N517DG (registered) > rv7 finishing > ****************************************** > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Neal George > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:31 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an > aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast... > > I'm in... > > > *Neal E. George* > 2023 Everglades Drive > Navarre, FL 32566 > Home - 850-515-0640 > Cell - 850-218-4838 > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Don Hall > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an > aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast... > > I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine > with me. > > Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008. > > Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested, > I'll contact Bob and secure a facility. > > Thanks, > > > ****************************************** > Don Hall > N517DG (registered) > rv7 finishing > ****************************************** > > * > > > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:41:49 AM PST US
    From: "Rodney Dunham, M.D." <rdunhamtn@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Looking good for the seminar
    Don I'm coming in from Knoxville, TN. I think a friend will come with me from Crossville, TN. Before I registered for the Seminar, the site claimed they needed 15 more to make the minimum 20. Afterwards, the number didn't change. Is there any way you can check to make sure I'm registered??? I'd REALLY hate for this not to happen. I've wired two planes by the 'Connection method and assisted several others. My wife wants to meet and thank Bob for making my planes safer and more fun. My buddy John is about to rewire his plane and is keen to attend also. BTW: Where's the best place to stay. We'll be coming in Friday. May not make the meeting though since I want to go by Aircraft Spruce on the way down. Rodney in Tennessee Unabashed Nuckollhead DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:57:15 AM PST US
    From: "Michael Hinchcliff" <cfi@conwaycorp.net>
    Subject: Intercom wires
    Hello all. I recently purchased a SoftComm 4-place panel mounted intercom that comes with a pre-wired harness. I am very surprised to see that the wires from the audio panel and to the headsets are not shielded. Would it be prudent to replace these wires with shielded ones or will it be ok using them as-is? If you're using this product with the harness as provided, please send me a PIREP. Thanks! Michael


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:44:38 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: OV Modules
    At 03:00 AM 1/9/2008 -0800, you wrote: > >The OV Module in the Z-figures (in particular, Z-20, which is the one I am >using), show the OV module connected to the output side of the master >switch. It would be physically more convenient for me to wire it to the >output side of the 5A circuit breaker. If I understand the way the OVM >works, I think this should be electrically equivalent. However, I thought >it best to check with the experts first, in case there are any factors I >am not aware of. Any place downstream of the 5A breaker is fine. Bob . . .


    Message 17


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    Time: 06:44:57 AM PST US
    From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Power Conditioning circuits
    While the time-tested certified aircraft avionics in my plane are probably well able to handle the voltage variations, I am not so sure about the experimental part of the panel. Because I have no round dial gauges at all, I chose to include a 12V automotive computer power supply (DC-DC regulator) between the main bus and those avionics. It keeps them alive during engine start. Here is the little one (90 watts) I used, but there are various versions with differing wattage capabilities. As a side benefit, it outputs regulated 5V I can use to power my iPod and charge my cell phone! http://www.cappuccinopc.com/parts/p1290.asp FWIW, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building...


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:46:23 AM PST US
    From: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding
    Thanks for the info, I'll check it out John (PPL-England) wings RV9a ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sully" <mr.sully@tx.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding > > Mark, > Thank You that was exactly what I was considering, I'll contact you off > list for your improvements. > > John, > I am doing this for a couple of reasons; easy access to perform > service/maintenance inside of the tips (AOA, antenna, strobes, etc) and it > eliminates the screws and nut plates which can get pretty ratty looking > after a period of time. Mark Phillips developed this and its pretty slick. > I've seen it at Sun-n Fun on a couple of different aircraft and it looks > great. Check it out at Mark's site > http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_list&c=19 > > -------- > Sully > RV-7 In-work > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156917#156917 > > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 06:51:54 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Intercom wires
    At 07:54 AM 1/9/2008 -0600, you wrote: >Hello all. I recently purchased a SoftComm 4-place panel mounted intercom >that comes with a pre-wired harness. I am very surprised to see that the >wires from the audio panel and to the headsets are not shielded. Would it >be prudent to replace these wires with shielded ones or will it be ok >using them as-is? If you're using this product with the harness as >provided, please send me a PIREP. Virtually all audio system wires in aircraft receive 99.99% of their immunity for noise propagation by (1) twisting outbound and inbound signal return lines and (2) elimination of ground loops. Shielding is a prophylactic against ELECTROSTATICALLY coupled noises of which there are exceedingly few sources and next to none that live behind the instrument panel. While not a 100% sure deal, suppliers of such products will have conducted due diligence in crafting the design of their offering . . . while working to reduce $time$-out-the-door price of their product. Leaving off the shields is low risk if (1) and (2) are dutifully satisfied and it reduces $time$ required to produce the product. At the moment, I have no basis for telling you that the supplier did a bad thing. Go ahead and install it as-is. Bob . . .


    Message 20


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    Time: 07:03:45 AM PST US
    From: Joe Dubner <jdubner@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Intercom wires
    Michael, I'm using the two-place version of this intercom and factory harness in my Long-EZ with no problems. 660 hours/5 years/12V system/IR alternator/strobes/Lycoming O-235 with 1 magneto and 1 LSE EI. I can't see shielded wire improving the performance of the earphone wiring (it's low-impedance and high-level) although I can _imagine_ it _possibly_ helping for the microphone. But in practice, all is fine. If I had an aluminum airplane, I'd be sure to mount the jacks with insulated shoulder washers to avoid picking up a ground common to other (noisy) circuits. Incidentally, Softcomm is one of the "good guys" -- they provided me with a schematic of their intercom when I needed to fix it (blown LM386 output IC -- an easy fix). Best, Joe Lewiston, ID Email: http://mail2600.com/#Contact On 01/09/2008 05:54 Michael Hinchcliff wrote: > Hello all. I recently purchased a SoftComm 4-place panel mounted intercom that comes with a pre-wired harness. I am very surprised to see that the wires from the audio panel and to the headsets are not shielded. Would it be prudent to replace these wires with shielded ones or will it be ok using them as-is? If you're using this product with the harness as provided, please send me a PIREP. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Michael


    Message 21


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    Time: 07:05:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Looking good for the seminar
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Ok lazy person, that's why Bob spent half his life building the website. See http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html (I'll make you read it) Wow, $30 for meals - just highway robbery! Just kidding I can't even fill one-half of one side of my wing tank for that. If you guys need an extra body, let me know, I'll buzz down. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:27 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking good for the seminar It might me more helpful if you made a note of the city and state the seminar was to be held. Sam Hoskins Murphysboro, IL On Jan 8, 2008 10:53 PM, Don Hall < dhall@donka.net <mailto:dhall@donka.net> > wrote: Fellow builders, I just checked Bob's site and we're just one shy of the required 15 to hold the seminar. I'd say our chances are pretty good right now. I met with the EAA690 board tonight to discuss some logistics. To keep the seminar flowing along and comfortable, we need to provide (2) continental breakfasts, (1) lunch, coffee, drinks, and snack foods. Bob's fee for the seminar itself is $185, due at the beginning of the seminar. The chapter would also like to also collect $30 from everyone attending to cover food/facility charges. Almost all of that goes into your belly. Maybe a buck or two will be left over for the chapter for operational costs. If that seems unreasonable, please let me know. The chapter is very determined that you feel welcome spending the weekend in their hangar. Dinner on Saturday night is NOT included. I think it would be great to find a spot nearby and go tell builder war stories over a few beers, cokes, or tacos. How many of you are out-of-towners coming in the night before? The chapter would like to invite you to the meeting on Friday night. I'm not sure what the agenda is yet, but it'll be posted on their website soon. www.eaa690.org If you want any local advice or help, let me know. I would also be happy to serve as taxi for any out of towners and save them the trouble of a rental car. ****************************************** Don Hall N517DG (registered) rv7 finishing ****************************************** ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:31 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast... I'm in... Neal E. George 2023 Everglades Drive Navarre, FL 32566 Home - 850-515-0640 Cell - 850-218-4838 ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Hall Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:23 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hoping to garner interest for an aeroelectric seminar in the Southeast... I'm from Atlanta. Anywhere within reasonable driving distance is fine with me. Would try to secure a time somewhere in 1Q 2008. Please send me an email privately. If I can get enough folks interested, I'll contact Bob and secure a facility. Thanks, ****************************************** Don Hall N517DG (registered) rv7 finishing ****************************************** href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c h ref=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c h ref=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com


    Message 22


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    Time: 07:06:13 AM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: Seminar
    Hey Just a note to those who may be considering sponsoring/attending one of Bob's seminars. I conned our chapter 65 Stoney Creek, ON, into sponsoring one 2 years ago. The group was skeptical regarding sufficient attendance ( we have 60 members, about 35 active) but were willing to assess the surrounding area (toronto is 4 million, 40 miles away). With two months to go, we had the quorum - with one month to go we had an extra 20 - and by D-day we had 3 from Pennsylvania-New York, one from further south and three from 70 miles east. The Seminar was excellent, not one complaint and many kudos. The content was super, the event a success by any standard. Do it. Ferg


    Message 23


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    Time: 07:14:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Looking good for the seminar
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Anyone based in Lawrenceville interested in flying down to Atlanta to pick up an attendee? Naturally, paid gas and free (barely) ATC experience et al. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodney Dunham, M.D. Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:39 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Looking good for the seminar Don I'm coming in from Knoxville, TN. I think a friend will come with me from Crossville, TN. Before I registered for the Seminar, the site claimed they needed 15 more to make the minimum 20. Afterwards, the number didn't change. Is there any way you can check to make sure I'm registered??? I'd REALLY hate for this not to happen. I've wired two planes by the 'Connection method and assisted several others. My wife wants to meet and thank Bob for making my planes safer and more fun. My buddy John is about to rewire his plane and is keen to attend also. BTW: Where's the best place to stay. We'll be coming in Friday. May not make the meeting though since I want to go by Aircraft Spruce on the way down. Rodney in Tennessee Unabashed Nuckollhead DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 24


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    Time: 08:02:23 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Question about Annunciating Lights
    At 08:28 AM 1/9/2008 +0100, you wrote: > >I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce. > >http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes > >Looks pretty neat to me. >Pascal A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in an excerpt of the websit and posted it to: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf Bob . . .


    Message 25


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    Time: 08:05:01 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Odd ICOM IC-A200 Power/Ground Instructions
    At 06:41 AM 1/9/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >Tim, > My guess is that since the power uses 2 molex pins 14, R it is a > mechanical thing (1 wire per pin) the twist and solder part is BS IMHO. > The ground could be 4 18-20 ga to maintain 1 pin per crimp. these can go > all the way to the ground point or joined to 1 or 2 wires, your choice. > As far as I can see from a grounding point of view you are trying to > maintain the signal ground at the same potential as the airframe/battery. > The IR drop wants to be as low as possible to achieve this, lower than > may be acceptable for the power leads. That said you may want all 4 wires > to go to ground. > I think that the mechanical issues and the redundant contacts at the > card edge connector are the overriding concerns here. If there is another > explanation based on physics it escapes me (possible). When ever you see paralleled pins, the first thought that comes to mind are desires to (1) minimize total resistance in that conductor path and/or (2) an attempt to 'share' total current between to pins in the connector. I've written several times about programs I've worked on where it was desirable to run 20 or more amps through a standard D-sub connector. I developed this process about 10 years ago at RAC and tried for the first time on the GQM-163 target and currently used in numerous locations on the Hawker 4000 power distribution system. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/D-Sub_Power_Dist_1.jpg HOWEVER, for this process to work effectively, you MUST have a suitable length of wire on EACH pin BEFORE they are joined together into a common conductor. In the case of the ICOM (and numerous other radios) I'd put a 6" piece of 22AWG pigtail in each pin to be paralleled and bring the pigtails together into a common conductor at a soldered joint or butt-splice. The ballasting resistance of the pigtails is essential to making the pins share the total loads. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------) ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) ( appearance of being right . . . ) ( ) ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 26


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    Time: 08:34:24 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Shielded Wire
    At 08:31 AM 1/9/2008 -0800, you wrote: >Bob: > >I've read thru the various sections of the book on grounding, wire >selection, noise etc, as well as the Blue Mountain article and the FAQ. > >I already done some wiring in my wing and I'm concerned now that I may >have done it incorrectly. > >Electrically, my wing contains: > > Strobe light, power supply mounted at wing tip > Nav Light > Landing light > Taxi light > Pitot heat power > Pitot heat controller > Fuel pump > Fuel flow sensor > Remote compass > Potentiometer > >I used twisted shielded wire for all wires with return wires for all power >supplies. It was intended that all the return wires would terminate at >what you call a "single point" ground. All power leads/returns are routed >thru the nose ribs, all control/sensor wires are routed along the rear >spar. They don't come together until the panel. The wing is all metal, >fuselage is truss tube. It's not necessary to separate these bundles . . . but it doesn't hurt. > >For each power lead, I connected the shielding and the return wire >together at the load location and grounded them locally as well as running >the return wire back to the "single point" ground. Then, I was going to >connect the return wire and the shielding at the "single point" and ground >again there. One and only one ground . . . local is probably fine but not both places . . . > >In reading Blue Mountain's comment, "Shields are connected at the source >end, and cut off flush at the load end" and your comment on pg 18-14, >"I'll further suggest that there's is greater risk that shielding >improperly terminated at both ends is 100x more likely to be the root >cause of a noise problem.....", indicates that what I have done may cause >problems. It was my understanding at the time that that was the correct >way to do it. Now I can't find what led me to that understanding. How many shielded wires do you have? Generally speaking, p-leads, strobe-head leads and the occasional avionics signal leads are shielded and the installation instructions for those systems should be followed for how to handle shield grounds. In some cases, a shield may be PART of a signal or power distribution path and is CONNECTED at both ends . . . but only one of those ends will be 'ground'. > >For better or worse, I'm stuck using the shielded wire so what should I do >to properly install it. Does it cause problems to ground the shield at >both ends. Does it cause problems to ground the return wire locally and >back at the "single point ground." >Your comments and explanation would be appreciated. Where, if any place have you arbitrarily added shields where they were not called for by manufacturer's installation instructions? I am reminded of a telephone call I received from a LongEz builder about 15 years ago. He recited the fact that he had wired his airplane with shielded wire throughout and added a litany of devices on which he had added "noise filters". He ended the recitation with, "What else do I need?" I was somewhat taken aback and had to inquire, "What kind of noise problems are you experiencing?" "Oh, none yet. The airplane hasn't flown. I'm just trying to make sure that I don't have a noise problem when I'm finished." I had to inform him that he'd added a lot of unnecessary pounds and much $time$ to the effort of assembling his project. I had to advise him to rip it all out and start over but taking his cues from (1) manufacturer's installation instructions and (2) observations of the recipes for success by others - get the service manual for a C-172 and see what wires are shielded. I'm curious as to your statement about "stuck using shielded wire" . . . let's first explore what wires are shielded and why . . . and then sort out the best methodology for handling the shields. Bob . . .


    Message 27


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    Time: 09:01:18 AM PST US
    From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Audio panel #inputs vs #sources
    Folks, I have three inputs that should be 'unswitched': AOA warning Traffic Alert AF3400EM Engine monitor My audio panel (PS Engineering PMA7000MS) has two unswitched inputs. Can I tie two of the sources to one input? I think there would only be an issue if they both went off at teh same time. Alternatively, I can put the third to a switched input and leave the switch on. Thanks, Ralph


    Message 28


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    Time: 09:47:50 AM PST US
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: Question about Annunciating Lights
    Bob In the document you saved to your website, you're missing the building pictures... which are very important and are in the bottom of the Van's Air Force thread Carlos > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: quarta-feira, 9 de Janeiro de 2008 15:28 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights > > <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > At 08:28 AM 1/9/2008 +0100, you wrote: > <pgroell@yahoo.fr> > > > >I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce. > > > >http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes > > > >Looks pretty neat to me. > >Pascal > > A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in > an excerpt of the websit and posted it to: > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf > > Bob . . . > > > >


    Message 29


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    Time: 10:00:39 AM PST US
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: Intercom wires
    By the way, Bob On a broader view of noise protection, let me ask a general (perhaps too much general) question: In TC or OBAM aircraft, which of the wires of all used in present electrical installations must be (or should be) noise protected, and from those which shall be twisted and which shall be made from shielded wire? Apart from the ground-loop and careful grounding procedures... Carlos > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III > Sent: quarta-feira, 9 de Janeiro de 2008 14:36 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Intercom wires > > <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > At 07:54 AM 1/9/2008 -0600, you wrote: > > >Hello all. I recently purchased a SoftComm 4-place panel mounted intercom > >that comes with a pre-wired harness. I am very surprised to see that the > >wires from the audio panel and to the headsets are not shielded. Would it > >be prudent to replace these wires with shielded ones or will it be ok > >using them as-is? If you're using this product with the harness as > >provided, please send me a PIREP. > > > Virtually all audio system wires in aircraft > receive 99.99% of their immunity for noise > propagation by (1) twisting outbound and inbound > signal return lines and (2) elimination of ground > loops. Shielding is a prophylactic against > ELECTROSTATICALLY coupled noises of which there > are exceedingly few sources and next to none that > live behind the instrument panel. > > While not a 100% sure deal, suppliers of such > products will have conducted due diligence in > crafting the design of their offering . . . while > working to reduce $time$-out-the-door price of > their product. Leaving off the shields is low > risk if (1) and (2) are dutifully satisfied > and it reduces $time$ required to produce the > product. > > At the moment, I have no basis for telling you > that the supplier did a bad thing. Go ahead and > install it as-is. > > Bob . . . > > > >


    Message 30


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    Time: 10:51:54 AM PST US
    From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds.net>
    Subject: Re: Question about Annunciating Lights
    Bob, it would help if you also added these pictures to the article... Bret Smith RV-9A "Fuselage" Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 10:28 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights > <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > At 08:28 AM 1/9/2008 +0100, you wrote: > >><pgroell@yahoo.fr> >> >>I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce. >> >>http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes >> >>Looks pretty neat to me. >>Pascal > > A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in > an excerpt of the websit and posted it to: > > http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf > > Bob . . . > > >


    Message 31


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    Time: 10:57:29 AM PST US
    From: "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd@volcano.net>
    Subject: Annunciator Panel
    Greg Young wrote: >I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic >strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate >to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the >egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal. Hi Greg, I made my own annunciator panel, similar to the way you are planning. Instead of buying strips of plastic, which would probably have been smarter, I made a "U" shape channel out of E-glass fiberglass and epoxy. The U channel was the length and width of the annunciator panel. I laid up thin strips of E-glass for the dividers between the individual cells and glued them in place with a dab of epoxy at each end. I spray painted the inside surfaces with flat black paint, which prevented light leakage between adjacent cells. I drilled holes in the back of the U channel for the LEDs, and glued them in place. I made a clear Plexiglas cover for the face and applied P-Touch labels (printed in reverse type) to the back side of the Plexiglas. I then placed a smoky black Plexiglas cover over the top, so that the labels were not visible unless the LED was illuminated. It looked pretty cool and worked great testing it inside my garage. However, in direct sunlight once I started flying, the LEDs weren't bright enough, so I had to remove the smoky black cover. It is now very functional, but not nearly so cool looking. I'm glad that I didn't glue the Plexiglas covers in place, because it would have made removing the dark cover difficult. The Plexiglas cover is sandwiched between the back side of the instrument panel and a flange around the perimeter of the annunciator housing. So far, it has stayed clean inside. If dust or bugs eventually get inside, I can take it apart and clean it. Good luck with your project, Dennis Johnson Lancair Legacy, 110 hours


    Message 32


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    Time: 11:01:25 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Page <jpx@Qenesis.com>
    Subject: Re: Question about Annunciating Lights
    How about the egg crate style fluorescent light fixture that is often used in place of the frosted panels ? Search for "L2GT PLTS R5" at www.homedepot.com > I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic > strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate > to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the > egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal. > > I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for > > each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you > do not > get bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the > one > that is lit.


    Message 33


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    Time: 11:49:49 AM PST US
    From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Power Conditioning circuits
    >From: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: Power Conditioning circuits >can recommend to take the aircraft power and >derive a safe supply to the electronics. >Best regards Peter Not recommending but this is worth a look. http://www.miracleantenna.com/Smoothie.htm I talked to them on the phone. I asked a lot of questions out of curiosity. They are willing to explain the operations and design. They claim it will protect from OV as well as transient spikes. There is always DC-DC power supplies. I'm sorry I can't recommend a brand, supplier or model but if you Google DC-DC power supplies you will find a lot info and products. These supplies are getting smaller and lighter and cheaper. Cheers George --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


    Message 34


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    Time: 11:56:42 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Annunciator Panel
    Dennis Johnson wrote: > Greg Young wrote: > > >> I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some plastic >> strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an appropriate egg crate >> to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover so I may glue or RTV the >> egg crate to it or the overlay for a good seal. >> > > Hi Greg, > > I made my own annunciator panel, similar to the way you are planning. Instead of buying strips of plastic, which would probably have been smarter, I made a "U" shape channel out of E-glass fiberglass and epoxy. The U channel was the length and width of the annunciator panel. I laid up thin strips of E-glass for the dividers between the individual cells and glued them in place with a dab of epoxy at each end. I spray painted the inside surfaces with flat black paint, which prevented light leakage between adjacent cells. > > I drilled holes in the back of the U channel for the LEDs, and glued them in place. I made a clear Plexiglas cover for the face and applied P-Touch labels (printed in reverse type) to the back side of the Plexiglas. I then placed a smoky black Plexiglas cover over the top, so that the labels were not visible unless the LED was illuminated. It looked pretty cool and worked great testing it inside my garage. > > However, in direct sunlight once I started flying, the LEDs weren't bright enough, so I had to remove the smoky black cover. It is now very functional, but not nearly so cool looking. I'm glad that I didn't glue the Plexiglas covers in place, because it would have made removing the dark cover difficult. The Plexiglas cover is sandwiched between the back side of the instrument panel and a flange around the perimeter of the annunciator housing. So far, it has stayed clean inside. If dust or bugs eventually get inside, I can take it apart and clean it. > > Good luck with your project, > Dennis Johnson > Lancair Legacy, 110 hours > I only have one annunciator light (gear locked). I bought a 12V LED with wire leads from besthongkong.com Drilled a 3/16" hole in the panel and pushed it in. Done.


    Message 35


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    Time: 11:57:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Question about Annunciating Lights
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Search results in notta. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Page Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:39 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Question about Annunciating Lights How about the egg crate style fluorescent light fixture that is often used in place of the frosted panels ? Search for "L2GT PLTS R5" at www.homedepot.com > I'm building an annunciator strip as well. I'm planning to get some > plastic strips from a hobby or craft shop and glue together an > appropriate egg crate to isolate mine. Mine has a smoked acrylic cover > so I may glue or RTV the egg crate to it or the overlay for a good > seal. > > I am looking for a method or product to cage the LED lighting for > > each individual annunciator. So when one lights up, you > do not > get bleed over light into an annunciator above or below the > one > that is lit.


    Message 36


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    Time: 11:59:02 AM PST US
    From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
    Subject: essential bus wire routing: keep away from you first-class
    galley Make sure you route your essential bus away from your first class galley. http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-jet-scare-as-sink-leaks-onto-wires/2008/01/09/1199554742706.html <html><body> <P>Make sure you route your essential bus away from your first class galley.</P> <P>&nbsp;</P> <P><A href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-jet-scare-as-sink-leaks-onto-wires/2008/01/09/1199554742706.html">http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-jet-scare-as-sink-leaks-onto-wires/2008/01/09/1199554742706.html</A></P> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 37


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    Time: 12:00:58 PM PST US
    From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop
    I'm doing some system testing and I can hear a very slight pop each time my strobes discharge through my headset. It doesn't break the squelch or prevent me from hearing the radios - or stereo for that matter. No whining on the charge cycles and I gotta listen carefully to catch the pop - but it's there. Is this strictly due to the high-voltage discharge in a 12V system? Is there something I can due to get rid of this? Or should I take gladness that it's faint, doesn't interfere, it's as good as it gets, have a coke and a smile and.......? Ralph


    Message 38


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    Time: 12:16:13 PM PST US
    From: Kevin Klinefelter <kevann@gotsky.com>
    Subject: Rotax 914 capacitor
    Hi All, B&C offer a couple different capacitors, 10,000uF @50VDC and 47,000uF @16VDC. Is one of these appropriate for use on the Rotax alternator? Thanks, Kevin


    Message 39


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    Time: 12:25:16 PM PST US
    From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
    Subject: Annunciator Panel
    That will work if that's what you want. Some would say even that is overkill since the prop tips chipping the pavement is the ultimate gear warning. That's the beauty of Experimental - you can do whatever suits your needs or fancy. Regards, Greg Young > --> <echristley@nc.rr.com> > > > > I only have one annunciator light (gear locked). I bought a > 12V LED with wire leads from besthongkong.com Drilled a > 3/16" hole in the panel and pushed it in. Done. >


    Message 40


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    Time: 12:59:24 PM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Annunciator Panel
    Greg Young wrote: > > That will work if that's what you want. Some would say even that is overkill > since the prop tips chipping the pavement is the ultimate gear warning. > That's the beauty of Experimental - you can do whatever suits your needs or > fancy. > > Regards, > Greg Young > > > >> --> <echristley@nc.rr.com> >> >> >>> >>> >> I only have one annunciator light (gear locked). I bought a >> 12V LED with wire leads from besthongkong.com Drilled a >> 3/16" hole in the panel and pushed it in. Done. >> The way my system works is that a locking pin has to pass through both sections of the lock to push a switch to enable the light. A pushbutton on the handle requires activation to turn the light on so I don't have to have it staring me in the face during the run-up. Confirming the gear down is a checklist item, but the procedure of having to actually push the button allows for some muscle memory to backup the checklist 8*) Ernest (still schedule for a gear up landing 8*)


    Message 41


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    Time: 01:37:48 PM PST US
    From: "Scott R. Shook" <sshook@cox.net>
    Subject: Question about Annunciating Lights
    Everyone...Thank you for all of the responses and suggestions. It looks like I will need to hit the aviation section at Home Depot again. Although, sometimes the aviation section at Lowe's is better. The idea with the U-channel is an excellent one, I wish I had thought of it sooner. If I can find a piece of the right size, it should work out nicely. I did contact Paul off-list but did not know the thread existed on VAF. Thank you for the link. I think I have solved my problem. I still need to go buy a band saw anyways; that however is a heck of a lot cheaper than what I was quoted from Statcoswitch for a lighted indicator matrix. Scott R. Shook RV-7A (Building) N696JS (Reserved) -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, 09 January, 2008 08:28 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> At 08:28 AM 1/9/2008 +0100, you wrote: > >I would suggest you have a look at the following thread on VansAirforce. > >http://tinyurl.com/2xtqes > >Looks pretty neat to me. >Pascal A fine piece of work! I've preserved this data in an excerpt of the websit and posted it to: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Roll_your_own_Annunicator_Panel.pdf Bob . . .


    Message 42


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    Time: 03:08:33 PM PST US
    From: "Dale Ensing" <densing@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: XM radio power cord
    A question regarding an XM Express radio that I use in the airplane and in the car. The power cord for the XM radio has a cigarette lighter type plug, is about three feet long with a mini coaxial plug on the radio end. Clamped on the cord are two cylinder shaped plastic devices (for lack of a better descriptive word). There is one on the cig. liter plug end and another smaller one on the radio end. The wire used in the power cord is very stiff and difficult to keep organized and out of the way. I would like to substitute another power cord that is coiled and stretchy. Much easier to manage and keep neat. What are the devices clamped on the cord and what is their function? What will be the impact if I used a power cord without the devices. Dale Ensing


    Message 43


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    Time: 06:14:37 PM PST US
    From: "FLAGSTONE" <flagstone@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Shielded Wire
    Bob: Maybe this is a little clearer: All the wires in the wing are shielded. The wire used is MIL-DTL-27500TG2T14. That particular one is 12AWG, two conductor, twisted pair, shielded and sheathed. The unshielded version was not available without special order and long lead time. The weight difference between shielded and unshielded was 2.75lbs for 1,000 feet so I got the shielded version. There are no manufacturer's recommendations per se. Sizing for loads was done as per AC43-13-2A based on the power consumption rating for each load. All power loads have a power lead and a return lead. The sensors have how ever many wires are required by the sensor. Ignoring connectors, fuses, switches, ground buss etc, all power loads were to be routed as follows: Power lead: Bat(+) -to- Load. Return lead: Load -to- Bat (-) and, Load -to- Airframe (at Local Ground) -to- Bat (-) Shielding: - Bat(-) -to- Airframe (at Local Ground) I can't find where I read it but something led me to believe that if you were going to use shielded wire it was OK to do it the way I did. So, given that I am going to use the wire I have, that I am going to run a return lead for all power loads and that I want to hook up the shielding on the wire, what is the correct way to do it? Regarding the return lead, I'm pretty clear that the return lead should not be grounded at the Bat (-) and at a Local ground. Quote from your response: " One and only one ground . . . local is probably fine but not both places . . ." No problem changing it but why is it such a bad thing to do it that way. Using the landing light as an example. What harm does it cause to ground it locally and also run a lead back to the bat (-). Why is that worse than only grounding locally and the corollary, why is that not better than only running the lead back to the bat (-). Is the same applicable to the strobe's power unit and the fuel pump. Would it be the same for something like a flap actuator motor. Regarding the shielding: I'm less clear on this. Removing the local ground from the return lead will also take the shielding out of the ground path from the Load to the Bat(-). But what about grounding the shielding itself. Again using the landing light as an example, what is the difference between grounding at both ends and grounding only at the Bat(-). Is the same applicable to the strobe's power unit, fuel pump and flap motor. Looking forward to your explanations. Thanks Mark


    Message 44


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    Time: 07:19:25 PM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative?
    Anyone know any details about this product? http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper than typical PLBs with built in GPS.) Charlie


    Message 45


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    Time: 08:10:33 PM PST US
    From: "Michel Creek" <mwcreek@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative?
    Charlie, There is a short description of this unit in the December 2007 newsletter of the Idaho Aviation Association. Look on page 6 under the District 5 news. http://www.flyidaho.org/newsletters_old.asp?path 07&menuID=48~48 Mike Creek -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cheaper 406mhz plb alternative? <ceengland@bellsouth.net> Anyone know any details about this product? http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx IF it's using the public SARSAT satellites, maybe it would still work after the 1st mandatory subscription lapses. (Still be a lot cheaper than typical PLBs with built in GPS.) Charlie


    Message 46


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    Time: 08:47:06 PM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop
    Ralph Have you tried it outside? My radio picks it up when in a metal hangar but not when outside. My intercom picks up a little as well via power supply or ground but hardly noticeable with the engine idling. So it might not be worth pursuing. The chapter on noise and grounding may be helpful. And if it is still noticeable a cheap automotive radio power filter on the strobe power supplies also helped in my case. Ken Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > I'm doing some system testing and I can hear a very slight pop each time my strobes discharge through my headset. It doesn't break the squelch or prevent me from hearing the radios - or stereo for that matter. No whining on the charge cycles and I gotta listen carefully to catch the pop - but it's there. > > Is this strictly due to the high-voltage discharge in a 12V system? Is there something I can due to get rid of this? Or should I take gladness that it's faint, doesn't interfere, it's as good as it gets, have a coke and a smile and.......? > > Ralph


    Message 47


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    Time: 08:53:56 PM PST US
    From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Wingtip Antenna Grounding
    In a message dated 01/09/2008 4:46:12 AM Central Standard Time, jmtipton@btopenworld.com writes: I'm interested in the reason why you are deviating from the standard mounting for the wing tips, to 'piano hinges', do you intend to put the 'hinge' fully around the curve of the leading edge !!! Nah, just where ya need 'em- See: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5181_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5181) click on >>Next Entry>> on each page for the whole story... >From The PossumWorks in TN\ Mark Phillips _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/) **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 48


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    Time: 09:01:18 PM PST US
    From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Seminar
    In a message dated 01/09/2008 9:10:31 AM Central Standard Time, VE3LVO@rac.ca writes: The content was super, the event a success by any standard. Do it. Ditto on that- see: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/?q=training_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/?q=training) Long time Nuckollhead in TN Mark do not archive **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 49


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    Time: 09:15:37 PM PST US
    From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Question about Annunciating Lights
    Here's another take on rollin' yer own: _http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126_ (http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126) Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


    Message 50


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    Time: 09:44:36 PM PST US
    From: "Carl Morgan" <zk-vii@rvproject.gen.nz>
    Subject: Question about Annunciating Lights
    I took Mark's work as a basis, and this is what I ended up with.... Close up: http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/photos/2007-06/Web_Img_9760.jpg http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-07-28.html the final look, http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-18.html and http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/dailylog/dailylog_2007-06-19.html for some of the fabrication process. Just another possible source of ideas. Carl -- Carl Morgan - ZK-VII - RV 7A - Inspection next Tue! http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Sent: 10 January 2008 18:14 To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question about Annunciating Lights Here's another take on rollin' yer own: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5126 Click on fotos for bigger view and Next Entry>> for more info (several pages) including wiring diagram, part #s etc... From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 10:16


    Message 51


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    Time: 10:36:13 PM PST US
    From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Question about Annunciating Lights
    In a message dated 01/09/2008 11:46:52 PM Central Standard Time, zk-vii@rvproject.gen.nz writes: Just another possible source of ideas. Oh, yeah- make mine look like somethin' outa some chickenhouse in Tennessee!! 8-) Awesome work, Carl- I genuflect profusely! Mark - do not archive **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489




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