AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 01/13/08


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:26 AM - Toggle switch tool (scott klemptner)
     2. 05:06 AM - Re: Automatic fuel pump backup switch (Mark Sletten)
     3. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine (OOPS!!!) (Gaye and Vaughn)
     4. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine (OOPS!!!) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 08:39 AM - Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop (Jeff Page)
     6. 09:37 AM - Re: ELT/PLB ()
     7. 08:22 PM - Blue Mountain EFIS (Sully)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:26:58 AM PST US
    From: scott klemptner <bmwr606@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Toggle switch tool
    i use masking tape to protect the panel. 1 horizontal strip of tape above, 1 horizontal strip below and as many vertical strips as necessary between the switches / circuit breakers. ---------------------------------


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:06:40 AM PST US
    From: "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa@hometel.com>
    Subject: Re: Automatic fuel pump backup switch
    As another has pointed out, Eggenfellner Aircraft no longer recommends an auto-switching scheme for the dual pump configuration. Regards, Mark Sletten


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:28:15 AM PST US
    From: "Gaye and Vaughn" <vaughnray@bvunet.net>
    Subject: Re: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine (OOPS!!!)
    So if I included OV protection as shown in attached, I can feel good about protecting my electronics. I noticed that in Z-20, you did not have a 5amp alt field breaker. I have it in mine. Is it required? Vaughn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine (OOPS!!!) > <nuckolls.bob@cox.net> > > I just realized that I didn't answer "the question" about justification > for OV protection. ALL engine driven power sources fitted with regulators > have the ability to produce output voltages well in excess of the > system design voltages. RISKS from failure of the regulator are mitigated > by (1) the alternator's limited ability to deliver energy (current limit), > (2) te alternators open-circuit, runaway limits for voltage and (3) the > battery's ability to soak-up what the alternator dishes out for an > interval > of time sufficient for OV protection to take notice and shut the system > down. > > In the case of an SD-8 driving a 18 a.h. battery, a simple OV warning > light > might suffice presuming that the owner operator is willing to place > him/herself > in the OV protection loop. > > Most designers op for some form of automatic device as do all folks who > design > systems for certified aircraft. Indeed, all of my z-figures for power > generation > feature some form of automatic OV protection combined with immediate > notification > of LOW VOLTAGE that follows. > > I was concentrating on the operating characteristics of your particular > alternator/regulator combination and overlooked the fact that your > original > question asked about the value of adding OV protection. There are NO > votlage regualtors for which probability of runaway failure is ZERO. Some > are > very good, some are not. Without doing the MTBF/FMEA analysis on every > design to be considered, the prudent thing to do is simply include OV > protection > on every system. > > This is a 3-phase machine which I presume is more robust than the 18A > alternator on a Rotax. It's probably capable of boosting bus votlage > to over 16 volts immediately followed by a steady rise to over 18 volts > in a matter of minutes. It would not be my personal choice to hope that > I would notice and react to a regulator failure for the purpose of > mitigating damage to the rest of the system . . . I would recommend > inclusion of OV protection. > > To do this on the AC side of a 3-phase system would require a two-pole > relay so perhaps the best approach is leaving the relay on the DC side > so it can be a single-pole device. See figure Z-20. > > Bob . . . > > > At 07:49 PM 1/12/2008 -0500, you wrote: > >><vaughnray@bvunet.net> >> >>Thanks Bob, >> >>I am going down to LSA show in Sebring, Florida to see the guys who make >>the engine. I hope it works out well for me. >> >>Vaughn Teegarden >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >><nuckolls.bob@cox.net> >>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >>Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:33 PM >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fw: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine >> >> >>><nuckolls.bob@cox.net> >>> >>>At 05:14 PM 1/8/2008 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>I have received the following reply from the ULPower representatvie to >>>>my question, "Why do I not need to include crowbar OV protection with >>>>this engine?" >>>> >>>> >>>>Our electronics guy sent me a diagram showing the principle of how our >>>>type of regulator works. He says (in Dutch below) that: >>>> >>>>---------- >>>>our type is a "shunt" regulator which shorts the PMG to ground when the >>>>battery voltage increases above the nominal level so that the battery >>>>can never be over charged and damaged. >>>>The principle of a PMG is different to a Regulated Field Generator >>>>(typical in cars) where the magnetic field is regulated to vary the >>>>voltage of the generator. >>>>A PMG acts as a constant current source and therefore may be shorted >>>>out. >>>> >>>>---------- >>>>The regulator / rectifier we use is typically used on large capacity >>>>motorbikes and our supplier says they are very robust. >>>> >>>>He also sent the attached schematic: >>>> >>>>So as I see it, the attached schematic for my airplane should be >>>>sufficient. >>>> >>>>Vaughn Teegarden >>> >>> What you've proposed will be fine. The regulator >>> topology you cited is a carry through of the >>> earliest PM alternator regulators. It throttles >>> or controls alternator output to the system by >>> putting a dead short on the alternator's stator >>> windings during short periods where unrestrained >>> output would boost the system voltage too much. >>> >>> This is a very simple approach that has been >>> effective since day-one . . . but does have the >>> down-side of causing the alternator to run at >>> max output current 100% of the time whether that >>> energy is used by the electrical system or not. >>> Of course, if wire size and cooling considerations >>> for the alternator are carefully addressed, this >>> can produce a robust, reliable system. >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------------------) >>> ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) >>> ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) >>> ( appearance of being right . . . ) >>> ( ) >>> ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >>269.19.1/1220 - Release Date: 1/11/2008 6:09 PM >> >> >> >> >>incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >>Checked by AVG. > > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------) > ( . . . a long habit of not thinking ) > ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial ) > ( appearance of being right . . . ) > ( ) > ( -Thomas Paine 1776- ) > ---------------------------------------- > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:58:30 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Europa XS with ULPower 260i engine (OOPS!!!)
    At 10:24 AM 1/13/2008 -0500, you wrote: >So if I included OV protection as shown in attached, I can feel good about >protecting my electronics. I noticed that in Z-20, you did not have a 5amp >alt field breaker. I have it in mine. Is it required? > >Vaughn Yes, that's works. Look closer at Z-20. EVERY used of the crowbar OV protection module has a 2 to 5A breaker upstream of the crowbar module. In this case, it's between terminals 1 and 5 on the "master switch". Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:39:30 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Page <jpx@Qenesis.com>
    Subject: Re: Strobe discharge pop-pop-pop
    > >Ralph, > > > >I had this same problem with the strobes in my Cessna 172. > >I solved it by inserting a 1N4002 diode in the power feed to my > >intercom and putting a 2200uF/35V capacitor between power and ground > >on the intercom side. > >Unfortunately this was after rewiring all the intercom wires which had > >been shoddily installed and incorrectly grounded at both ends. Parts > >were what I had at hand. It is an easy thing to for you to try. > > > >I also found the problem was much more noticable when testing on the > >ground when the alternator was not running to boost the voltage than > >when flying. > > Interesting! This demonstrates that the noise is conducted > and the only way that the flash-tube circuit can couple to > ship's wiring is magnetic or electrostatic. Twisting of > the strobe head wires under a shield takes care of both of > these coupling modes except where a ground loop (something > connected to airframe at fixture end of wires). > > As an experiment, try operating your victim system(s) from > their own quiet power source . . . say a couple of 6v lantern > batteries in series. Get some el-cheesos from Wal-Mart. > If the noise goes away while powered only by the batteries, > then it's coming in through the +14v power wires. In this case, > adding the diode and capacitor as cited above is worth exploring. > > Alternatively, it's worth exploring how the admittedly intense > flash tube noises are getting out of their normally tight > confines. > > Bob . . . In my case, I think the noise wasn't from the discharge itself, but from the initial surge current as the strobe power pack started to re-charge its internal capacitors for the next flash. I expect the inconsistent connection of power and ground to the strobes and intercom led to a voltage drop across the power feed wire to the intercom - apparently all the folks who worked on the airplane in its 37 year history hadn't read your book :-) The internal circuitry of the intercom was unable to compensate for the power fluctuation, which isn't a surprise to me considering the extremely poor design of the internal circuitry of the intercom - sometimes products are popular because of features and price, not quality :-( In my case, it was just as easy to try sticking the diode and capacitor in the line as a test as it would have been to try using separate batteries as a power source. It worked so well that I left them there, rathering than trying to optimize the values. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:37:06 AM PST US
    From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: ELT/PLB
    Just to clarify, 406MHz Personal Location Beacon (PLB's), is basically a hand held ELT. You register the owner. It's free and is the official Search and Rescue (SAR) freq with satellites operated by Governments. The "Personal Tracking Device" (PTD) is a for FEE commercial service. Cost of the SPOT service is $110 year, initially. 406Mhz is free. The PTD have their own satellite or piggy back off one. I don't know how good their coverage is. It's fairly new. The PTD are geared for hikers, snowmobile and other out door stuff. Yes I agree a constant tracking device is a good idea. May be it is a good substitute for a PLB? Who knows? True PTD can be used to get an update on location. Your family can go on the web I guess and look up your position real time. PLB's is only activated for emergency. Other wise it's off. It is also passive in that it must be activated by the user. It gives no position unless turned on. The PTD is on all the time, which might be a battery issue, since they run off of two little AA's. Some of the PTD out there from different companies have the ability to send a message to the PTD. At one time they where talking about future voice capability (like a satellite phone), but the PTD's have backed down from that, for technical (cost?) reasons. If you HAVE a PTD than you MUST have some one monitor you or at least know to look for you and know you have a PTD. A PLB is monitored 24/7 and has world wide coverage. >From: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net> >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: ELT/PLB >One function of a PLB that seems to have been >forgotten is the tracking mode (see >http://www.findmespot.com/). Assuming you go down >and the PLB is destroyed, your next of kin have a >very good idea of your whereabouts much better i>dea than an ELT provides. >Frankly, if I crash and die, I could care less if >someone finds me (I know my family does not feel >that way). What I desire out of my PLB is the ability >to tell someone exactly where I am if I have a >problem and survive. Ya - all kinds of scenario's can >be debated but if you MUST have a completely fail >safe solution - don't expect to get it from a $150 >device. >Jon Finley >N314JF - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 Legacy >http://www.finleyweb.net >Mid-Valley Airpark (E98), Los Lunas, NM --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:22:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS
    From: "Sully" <mr.sully@tx.rr.com>
    I wanted to find out if anyone has recent experience with performance and support from Blue Mountain. I have an opportunity to buy a EFIS/One from someone who hasn't been satisfied, but most of the negative posts I've seen, seem to be several months old. Any current info will appreciated. Sully -------- Sully RV-7 In-work Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157917#157917




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